China: a force fit for a superpower

[CardSharp]

both the Korean and Japanese incidents were over resource profiteering. As well as Chinese attitude when it comes to territorial encroachment.

If China's claim is so strong why does it not make it's claims official with the U.N. under the Convention on the Law of the Sea? The reason is it knows the claims wouldn't hold up. So instead it is better to play the neighborhood bully. After all it even got the U.S. to back down on sending an aircraft carrier to the yellow sea.

Well if you're too dense to realize you can't take the actions of private citizens as officially sanctioned government orders, we're pretty much done here.

 

[below_freezing]

There are many tools avaliable to persuade Japanese and Korean governments that their best interests lie with us. The first step is to kick the US occupiers who have been oppressing them out, then they will naturally see our point of view.

 

[Thomas]

yeah a 60 ton fishing boat will ram a 3000 ton coast guard ship?

you serious?

if it the fishing ship was US and it got rammed by a Cuban coast guard, it sure as hell won't be "not the Cubans fault".

Yes I know Chinese Fishermen who are already breaking the law by fishing in another countries waters can do no wrong. Or is it you don't recognize Korea's territorial waters as well. And the fishermen had a right to be there?

Also the Video clearly shows the fishermen being agressive swinging weapons. if your in another country and are stopped by the police or military it isn't very smart to not comply with what they tell you to do.

 

[Thomas]

Well if you're too dense to realize you can't take the actions of private citizens as officially sanctioned government orders, we're pretty much done here.

It's the whole Chinese attitude of what they consider to be thiers. not just the Government. Many of the nationalist views expressed on this site prove that.

 

[CardSharp]

It's the whole Chinese attitude of what they consider to be thiers. not just the Government. Many of the nationalist views expressed on this site prove that.

*Insert similarly bigoted views about Americans and American attitudes*

then

*Points finger back*


Ponce.

 

[WARBIRD]

yeah a 60 ton fishing boat will ram a 3000 ton coast guard ship?

you serious?

if it the fishing ship was US and it got rammed by a Cuban coast guard, it sure as hell won't be "not the Cubans fault".

Well this is not the first instance of Chinese fishing trawler ramming into other ships just 2 years back the US complained that a Chinese fishing trawler harassed one of their cruiser.It's probably a Chinese tactic to persuade naval ships of other countries to stay away from the Chines coast.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Victory!!!

Philippines has been successfully Finlandized. I was most worried about Philippines since they have historically been closest to US.

Vietnam is already Finlandized by PLAN's assertive actions around Paracel Islands. Now the dominoes are falling. Indonesia should be next. Then Malaysia. Then Thailand and finally Singapore.

The end game is China has a free hand in South China Sea while negotiating some kind of joint development with SE Asian countries. China also gets to build high speed trains through Thailand down to Singapore. Eventually, this allows China to break any blockade of Malacca Straits.

It doesn't necessarily follow.

A blockade of the Malacca Straits does not mean somebody sets out a picket fence across the straits. The extent, nature and duration of the blockade can differ widely. The Isthmus of Kra can be blockaded just as easily.

Of course, this is a hypothetical discussion. The only militaristic, sabre-rattling power in the region which might think of blockading others is in this case in favour of letting peaceful traffic continue. So, no blockade, by anyone, anywhere. No need for shiny new solutions to problems that don't exist.

 

[below_freezing]

Well this is not the first instance of Chinese fishing trawler ramming into other ships just 2 years back the US complained that a Chinese fishing trawler harassed one of their cruiser.It's probably a Chinese tactic to persuade naval ships of other countries to stay away from the Chines coast.

At first I was against Speeder's IQ claims but I've found that they have significant merit.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Koreans are notorious thefts and liars, and they always want a chunk of Chinese Land.

 

[Joe Shearer]

But then you would leave the problem to the next generation. Attitudes and intentions change. Back in the 60's and 70's when lots of war generation people were around, the Japanese were a lot more humble and regretful about WW2. Now that has changed. India was a lot more humble back before 1995. Look at how that has changed.

Instead, it's better to deal with the problem once and for all. Look at what happened to Zhao kingdom by Qin kingdom. And look at what happened to Zunghar Mongols by Qing dynasty.

Indians are basically barbarians They are weak but the moment they pick up a weapon they will point it at China.

When, in your opinion, except for one instance, has this ever happened in the past?


That is in their nature.

They are the natural enemies of China

Do you have even a shred of historical evidence which supports this Walt Disney fantasy of yours?

just like cats and mice are natural enemies.

I definitely don't want to leave this problem to the next generation.

Perhaps the solution to your problems is to change video games, not to write on blogs. Think how satisfying it can be; just press the right toggle and India disappears.


Deal with it totally within this generation when we have a decisive advantage.


Are you quite sure? On present evidence, the Chinese leadership might be better advised to wait for an improvement on you before beginning its wars.

Actually, deal with it within 3 years before India gets a realistic nuclear deterrent.

Your posts are so oblivious to actual recorded history that it comes as a shock. The cultural legacy of China is to have a firm group on historical facts and on history. You have, in place of that, a complete indifference to what actually happened. What is contained in your posts is fiction which is totally contradictory to history. Just what are you up to?

It would have been worrying to read your effusions if they had not been so totally devoid of content. Both in considering the past, and evaluating trends today, it sometimes seems unreal to read your posts. They are so essentially out of sync with the real world that sometimes they are worth reading only in terms of reading fiction: Tom Clancy comes to mind.

What will you do and say three years from now when no war has broken out, the relative distance between China and India remains the same, and all else is calm, except the kind of agitprop that is summed up by your last post?

 

[HongWu]

They were fishing in Japans waters. I'm sure from the Chinese side it doesn't recognize Japan's territorial boundry. The problem is that China's agresive view of were it's boundry is in both the yellow and south china seas.

If China's claim is so strong why does it not make it's claims official with the U.N. under the Convention on the Law of the Sea? The reason is it knows the claims wouldn't hold up. So instead it is better to play the neighborhood bully. After all it even got the U.S. to back down on sending an aircraft carrier to the yellow sea.

That's bullsh!t

All of China's claims are soundly based on law and history. There's a reason most Americans don't bother doing a legalistic argument, because it always backfires. Sheesh, US is not even a signatory to LoS treaty.

You want to do military exercises 30 km off of Chinese coastline? Then by law China can do the same thing 30 km off of Manhattan. You wanna go down this path?

Both Diaoyutai and Nansha (Spratly Islands) have been fishing grounds for Chinese fisherman for hundreds of years. China is unique in that it has enormous amount of dynastic era documents supporting its claims. The only claim Japan has to Diaoyutai and SE Asian countries has to Nansha is that they grabbed it in 20th century when China was weak.

Because China faced too many geopolitical problems during the 20th century, it was not able to send ships to chase away Japan and SE Asian countries when they first claimed the islands, patrolled them and later on even built structures or outposts. China did, however, voice objection and reserve the issue for later.

In fact, the creeping annexation of China's islands continues now because Japan and SE Asian countries are now taking the next step -- trying to eject Chinese fisherman who have been fishing there for hundreds of years. Their dirty little secret is that their claim to the islands is unsound, since they grabbed it while China was weak, ignoring its protests.

When you grab islands from China taking advantage of a temporary weakness, expect that China will come back for these islands when it is strong!

 

[HongWu]

It doesn't necessarily follow.

A blockade of the Malacca Straits does not mean somebody sets out a picket fence across the straits. The extent, nature and duration of the blockade can differ widely. The Isthmus of Kra can be blockaded just as easily.

Of course, this is a hypothetical discussion. The only militaristic, sabre-rattling power in the region which might think of blockading others is in this case in favour of letting peaceful traffic continue. So, no blockade, by anyone, anywhere. No need for shiny new solutions to problems that don't exist.

Nope, US strategy for dealing with China heavily relies on cutting off energy shipping through Malacca Straits. This is a threat that the US has been bluntly wielding for a long time now:

"War on the Korea peninsula? War over Taiwan? Well, even if you gain an advantage there, we'll simply blockade your energy shipping through Malacca Straits."

For US to blockade Chinese energy shipping through Malacca Straits, it would need to put naval vessels in the area to find and interdict Chinese flagged ships (or those suspected going to / from China).

If Singapore is a friendly country connected to China via high-speed rail. It would be easy for China to station patrol vessels or fighter jets there to deter US ships from interdicting Chinese shipping.

What will you do and say three years from now when no war has broken out, the relative distance between China and India remains the same, and all else is calm, except the kind of agitprop that is summed up by your last post?

In this thread, I've already given the precise reasons why India wants so badly to defeat China and claim #1 superpower in Asia:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/86894-second-indo-chinese-war-2013-2015-a.html

- Internal social unrest from economic growth

- Desire to be British Empire and conquer all former British Indian colonies

- Desire for approval from white, English-speaking countries that happen to have contempt for China (again for colonial reasons)

- Ashoka strategic thinking about befriending the far and attacking the near

- Misconception / self-delusion that "China" and "India" are two geographically distant lands separated by a neutral "Tibet" when in fact China simply includes Tibet and actually borders India

- Misconception / self-delusion that China in 1962 "betrayed" India and then launched a "sneak attack" that India could have won if only it wasn't lead by such "peaceful" leadership

- Misconception / self-delusion that China is, just like India, an artificial country put together by colonialists (so why should China do any better than us is the implication) when in fact China is a continuously existing, unitary country since 300 BC, unlike India where successive states are extinguished by conquerors such as Mughals.

- India badly needs water and territory, because it has uncontrolled population growth



The problem with you, Desi_Guy and that other guy with the Guru avatar is that even though you are not the most belligerent Indians, you turn a blind eye to Indian aggression and pretend it doesn't exist. Then you pretend to be the innocent victim when China and Pakistan react to rabid Indian belligerence. That doesn't fly with me.

If you want to be objective, recognize that India is an expansionist country that refuses to live peacefully with neighbors and is hellbent on pursuing a self-delusional "#1 Asian superpower" fantasy.

 

[cross1993]

I don't want China's rise to be peaceful. I want to see blood of our enemies spilling on the ground. Only then can China say it has truly risen!

Enemies include a country whose name starts with "J" and another country whose name starts with "I".

Crazy man, China does not need a war.
Are you a Chinese?
I think that you are not a Chinese, We are not a belligerent nation.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Nope, US strategy for dealing with China heavily relies on cutting off energy shipping through Malacca Straits. This is a threat that the US has been bluntly wielding for a long time now:

"War on the Korea peninsula? War over Taiwan? Well, even if you gain an advantage there, we'll simply blockade your energy shipping through Mal

​

acca Straits."

For US to blockade Chinese energy shipping through Malacca Straits, it would need to put naval vessels in the area to find and interdict Chinese flagged ships (or those suspected going to / from China).

If Singapore is a friendly country connected to China via high-speed rail. It would be easy for China to station patrol vessels or fighter jets there to deter US ships from interdicting Chinese shipping.

As I suspected, you write with more ease than you read. Otherwise you might have spotted a reference to there being more than one way to create a blockade than by planting a ship (or a submarine) in the middle of the straits with a signboard. A thin screen of patrol vessels, of the type used for fisheries protection, backed up by the kind of marine surveillance available readily to the blockading power that you have mentioned, would spot any candidate vessel for slipping past the Straits of Malacca with no trouble at all. In that case, the interception and interrogation of these vessels can be conducted well out of the range of any shore-borne aircraft or light patrol vessel.

The second point is about your glib assumption that Singapore will take sides between the US and PRC in the following five or six decades. Going by their present behaviour, this is hugely unlikely. The authorities in Singapore have identified themselves with the US and the West. They do see the advantages in being doorways between the East and the West, but they themselves are extremely unlikely to move against the western bloc. The scenario that you have outlined (below) might fit onto maps in an extremely likely way, but they are flights of an over-stimulated imagination as far as real world conditions are concerned.

In this thread, I've already given the precise reasons why India wants so badly to defeat China and claim #1 superpower in Asia:



http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/86894-second-indo-chinese-war-2013-2015-a.html

- Internal social unrest from economic growth

- Desire to be British Empire and conquer all former British Indian colonies

- Desire for approval from white, English-speaking countries that happen to have contempt for China (again for colonial reasons)

- Ashoka strategic thinking about befriending the far and attacking the near

- Misconception / self-delusion that "China" and "India" are two geographically distant lands separated by a neutral "Tibet" when in fact China simply includes Tibet and actually borders India

- Misconception / self-delusion that China in 1962 "betrayed" India and then launched a "sneak attack" that India could have won if only it wasn't lead by such "peaceful" leadership

- Misconception / self-delusion that China is, just like India, an artificial country put together by colonialists (so why should China do any better than us is the implication) when in fact China is a continuously existing, unitary country since 300 BC, unlike India where successive states are extinguished by conquerors such as Mughals.

- India badly needs water and territory, because it has uncontrolled population growth



The problem with you, Desi_Guy and that other guy with the Guru avatar is that even though you are not the most belligerent Indians, you turn a blind eye to Indian aggression and pretend it doesn't exist. Then you pretend to be the innocent victim when China and Pakistan react to rabid Indian belligerence. That doesn't fly with me.

If you want to be objective, recognize that India is an expansionist country that refuses to live peacefully with neighbors and is hellbent on pursuing a self-delusional "#1 Asian superpower" fantasy.

 

[alpha proton]

I don't want China's rise to be peaceful. I want to see blood of our enemies spilling on the ground. Only then can China say it has truly risen!

Now many Chinese posters must have understood,why many people in this forum compare china to Nazi Germany,do u know what matter's more,its all about the attitude.

Enemies include a country whose name starts with "J" and another country whose name starts with "I".

It the same reason why people in the forum says u will receive the same thrash received by Nazi Germany.

nazis wake up one morning thinking that they can conquer the world with one blink of the eye,the bottom line is that they failed to understand that they tried to chew more than what they can digest.

U already had a gargantuan nemesis whose name start with U,dont add more and more more alphabets,it will create such a complication that will make it even difficult to survive.