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China 1992, India 2012

Why this alien from Mars is working overtime to copy paste so many articles? The opening article says India is 20 years behind China and not ahead of it. What has offended him so much? :undecided:

In 1971, China had successfully flown the DF-5 ICBM with a 12,000km range, which carried a four to five megaton warhead (see citation below).

Does India in 2012 have an ICBM that can carry a four to five megaton warhead over a 12,000km range?

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China has a minimum of 1,924 thermonuclear warheads. Here's why.

Let's see whether my minimum estimate of 1,924 Chinese thermonuclear warheads makes sense.

1. From the DF-31As alone, there should be 144 ICBM thermonuclear warheads.

AzKcQ.jpg
China showed us 12 DF-31A TELs at the 2009 Chinese military parade.

We know China launches satellites on 15 to 20 Long March/DF-31A rockets each year. Britain`s International Institute of Strategic Studies' claim that China is adding a brigade or 12 DF-31As to its arsenal each year looks reasonable. Since China manufactures 15 to 20 Long March rockets each year, China can easily produce 12 DF-31A missiles each year.

2. From the DF-5s, there are another 20 ICBMs with 4 to 5 megatons each. Richard Fisher has reported on the deployment of a DF-5B with 5 or 6 MIRVs. We do not know whether the DF-5B is a new missile or a retrofitted and upgraded DF-5.

Since we're trying to make a reasonable minimum estimate, we will just assume the DF-5Bs are upgrades of the existing DF-5s. The sum of 20 upgraded DF-5s is 100 warheads.

5CQhK.jpg
DF-5 had its first flight in 1971 and has been in service since 1981.

The Pentagon claims China built 20 DF-5s and then just stopped. Essentially, the Pentagon is claiming China never built a single additional DF-5 for 30 years from 1981 to 2011. Who believes that China has been an angel and did not build another DF-5 for thirty years?!

Reference: http://articles.janes.com/articles/Janes-Strategic-Weapon-Systems/DF-5-CSS-4-China.html

3. There is at least a dozen DF-31, which can reach Alaska, Hawaii, or the northwestern United States. This is another 12 ICBM warheads. Since the DF-31As are reportedly MIRVed, we will assume the DF-31s are also MIRVed with 3 warheads each. The total is 36 DF-31 warheads.

umpUn.jpg

Here, we see nine DF-31s; which were first seen at China's 1999 military parade.

The Pentagon claims China only built 12 DF-31s by 1999 and just stopped. Let me get this straight. China spent billions of dollars to develop its most advanced solid-fueled ICBM by 1999 and only built 12?! Are you going to believe the Pentagon propaganda?

An U.S. general testified in front of Congress that China was at least 10 years away from building a conventional ASAT missile in 2007. That very afternoon, China successfully destroyed a weather satellite with an ASAT weapon. So much for military intelligence at the Pentagon.

4. According to Jane's Defence, the "Chinese are believed to have started the design and development of the Dong Feng-41 (DF-41) in 1986." It's been over 15 years. China has shown us an operational and deployed DF-31A. There is no reason to believe that the DF-41 has not been fully developed and become operational. It's just a longer and slightly wider missile.

The DF-41 could easily vault China into eventual parity with the United States in the total number of warheads. Ten DF-41s result in 100 150-kiloton warheads. One hundred DF-41s would increase China's nuclear arsenal by 1,000 ICBM warheads.

xpy9U.jpg
Since 1986, according to Jane's Defence, China has been developing the DF-41 ICBM (which is capable of carrying 10 MIRVs).

According to GlobalSecurity, "it is anticipated that the DF-41 will be delivered to the 2d Artillery around the year 2010." In other words, the DF-41 has probably already been deployed.

Why should we believe GlobalSecurity? Let's use our common sense. The DF-41 has been in development for over 15 years. It can't stay in development for perpetuity. Given China's previous mastery of the DF-31 and DF-31A, fifteen years should be plenty of time to build a longer-range DF-41.

5. No one knows how many ICBMs China is hiding in its 5,000km Underground Great Wall. I think a sensible person would not claim that China spent ten years building the Underground Great Wall to only place an ICBM every 100km. Similarly, most reasonable people would not claim that China is hiding one ICBM every 1km.

As a rough estimate, a reasonable person would most likely assume that China is hiding one ICBM every 10km. 5,000km / 10km per hidden ICBM = 500 ICBMs hidden in China's Underground Great Wall. Assuming each ICBM is MIRVed with three warheads, I estimate China is hiding 1,500 ICBM warheads in its Underground Great Wall.

u2ybT.jpg

China spent ten years building its "'Underground Great Wall' that stretches for more than 5,000km in the Hebei region of northern China."

The Pentagon currently assigns ZERO ICBMs to China's Underground Great Wall. As best as I can understand, their logic is "well, we can't see it...so we're going to say there are no ICBMs there." Seriously, what kind of military assessment is that? It's just as bad as the Pentagon's ASAT assessment.

The 5,000km underground complex was specifically built for a Chinese thermonuclear counterstrike.

I estimate there are probably 500 ICBMs hidden in the 5,000km facility in Hebei, China. I want to mention that China doesn't need 500 launch silos. A missile can be fired from a silo and another missile can be reloaded in its place. Let's assume China plans to reload five missiles for each silo. This means China would only need 100 silos over a 5,000km distance.

I can assure you the claim of only 20 Chinese ICBM silos is ludicrous. The length of a DF-21 IRBM is 11m. The length of a DF-31 ICBM is 13m. If a silo is dug a little deeper and wider, it can accommodate an ICBM; instead of an IRBM.

In the following video, which encompasses only a few mountains, I counted at least 30 silos. We know from a Chinese-state television CCTV broadcast on March 24, 2008 that China has built a 5,000km (or 3,000-mile) missile complex under a mountain range. If a few mountains contain 30 silos, imagine how many silos are hidden along 5,000km.


6. China has four Type 094 Jin-class ballistic missile submarines (SSBN). Each Type 094 SSBN carries 12 JL-2 SLBMs (submarine-launched ballistic missiles). Since the Julang-2 is based on DF-31 technology, we will follow Jane Defence's report that the JL-2 is MIRVed with 3 or 4 warheads. Using our standard 3 MIRVs for a DF-31A or JL-2 missile, we arrive at 144 warheads (e.g. 4 Type 094 SSBNs x 12 JL-2s per SSBN x 3 MIRVs per JL-2).

Therefore, China's four Type 094 SSBNs carry a total of 144 JL-2 warheads that can strike portions of the United States.

RFyjn.jpg
Here, we see two Type 094 Jin-class ballistic missile submarines (SSBN). Two more SSBNs for a total of four Type 094 Jin-class SSBNs seem perfectly reasonable.
 
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See, what did I say !!! :lol:

What's wrong with that? They do have the longest and fastes HSR system in the world, they do have successful satelite launches, they have sent men into space and they do have a space station and many other things. When I listen to you guys, it's always we will, one day, in the future, in so-and-so-many years.

But I have to admit, that you guys are indeed masters of story telling and storry selling.
 
Martian is not a troll .I think he is a 40 year old unemployed virgin who plays video games 24 hrs a day!

When Indians can match half of Chinese technological accomplishments then you would have earned the right to talk trash about China. Until then, know your place.

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I have made my final selection for the tenth criterion to measure the technological capability of a nation. I believe that ASAT technology is a worthy test because it is a fusion of rocketry, advanced sensors, guidance systems, kinetic-kill warhead, and strategic utility. With ASAT, a country can deprive another of its GPS system (if it has one), spy satellites, communications satellites, etc.

If you disagree with any of the selections on this list or if you think another choice is more worthy, please explain your reasoning in detail and I will consider modifying this list. Thank you.

1. Send taikonaut into space and conduct spacewalk. (Ultimate test of aerospace technology)

Chinese Space Walk - 2008 - YouTube

2. Build indigenous Aegis-class destroyer with advanced phased array radars. (Sophisticated radar technology and integrated battlespace defense)

Type 052C Lanzhou-class destroyer can be seen at 1:16 in the video.
China Military Forces 2009

3. Build fifth-generation stealth fighters. (Military technology prowess for air dominance; by controlling the airspace, you control the high ground and can rain bombs down at will)


4. Build world's-fastest bullet trains that travel an average of 380 kph. (Amazing mechanical engineering)


5. Build world's-fastest supercomputer. (Unmatched computer technology)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ9qsjGFVe0

6. Launch a record 15 rocket/satellite launches in 2010 without a single failure. (Test of rocket reliability technology)


7. Build nuclear submarines. (Complex compact nuclear reactor technology)

If you have not yet seen this video then it is a MUST-watch! It is a dazzling display of the hardware in China's PLA Air Force. A Chinese nuclear submarine can be seen at 10:39 and a Type 052C destroyer at 10:47 in the video.

8. Build a cryogenic rocket engine. (Rocket engine technology for heavy-lift rocket)

The following impressive video is a successful 200-second rocket-engine burn of the forthcoming 2014 Long March V. Having completed this milestone, the talented rocket scientists have moved on to designing and building the final heavy-lift rocket engine that will carry Chinese taikonauts to the moon.


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To place the development of cryogenic rocket engines in its proper historical context, I thought you might want to know that NASA developed the world's first cryo engine in 1961 and China flight-tested her first cryo engine in 1984 (i.e. 27 years ago).

Cryogenic rocket engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The first operational cryogenic rocket engine was the 1961 NASA design the RL-10 LOX LH2 rocket engine, which was used in the Saturn 1 rocket employed in the early stages of the Apollo moon landing program."

YF-73 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The YF-73 is China's first successful, cryogenic, gimballed engine, using liquid hydrogen (LH2) fuel and liquid oxygen (LOX) oxidizer. It was developed in the early 1980s and first flight was in 1984."

9. Build commercial satellites that weigh over 5,000 kg or 10,000 pounds with a service lifetime of 15 years. (World-class satellite technology)

5AuWC.jpg

DFH-4 satellite bus (or platform) designed and built by CGWIC (i.e. China Great Wall Industrial Corporation)

10. Demonstrated ASAT (i.e. anti-satellite multistage missile) to destroy a satellite. (Critical capability to deprive another nation of its eyes and ears in the sky; also eliminates GPS guidance for opposing nation's weapons)

 
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In 1971, China had successfully flown the DF-5 ICBM with a 12,000km range, which carried a four to five megaton warhead (see citation below).

Does India in 2012 have an ICBM that can carry a four to five megaton warhead over a 12,000km range?

China also crashed a rocket on a village killing hundreds of people . We didn't do that either.
 
When Indians can match half of Chinese technological accomplishments then you would have earned the right to talk trash about China. Until then, know your place.

----------

I have made my final selection for the tenth criterion to measure the technological capability of a nation. I believe that ASAT technology is a worthy test because it is a fusion of rocketry, advanced sensors, guidance systems, kinetic-kill warhead, and strategic utility. With ASAT, a country can deprive another of its GPS system (if it has one), spy satellites, communications satellites, etc.

If you disagree with any of the selections on this list or if you think another choice is more worthy, please explain your reasoning in detail and I will consider modifying this list. Thank you.

1. Send taikonaut into space and conduct spacewalk. (Ultimate test of aerospace technology)

Chinese Space Walk - 2008 - YouTube

2. Build indigenous Aegis-class destroyer with advanced phased array radars. (Sophisticated radar technology and integrated battlespace defense)

Type 052C Lanzhou-class destroyer can be seen at 1:16 in the video.
China Military Forces 2009

3. Build fifth-generation stealth fighters. (Military technology prowess for air dominance; by controlling the airspace, you control the high ground and can rain bombs down at will)


4. Build world's-fastest bullet trains that travel an average of 380 kph. (Amazing mechanical engineering)


5. Build world's-fastest supercomputer. (Unmatched computer technology)

China's Tianhe-1A Becomes World's Fastest Supercomputer - YouTube

6. Launch a record 15 rocket/satellite launches in 2010 without a single failure. (Test of rocket reliability technology)


7. Build nuclear submarines. (Complex compact nuclear reactor technology)

If you have not yet seen this video then it is a MUST-watch! It is a dazzling display of the hardware in China's PLA Air Force. A Chinese nuclear submarine can be seen at 10:39 and a Type 052C destroyer at 10:47 in the video.

8. Build a cryogenic rocket engine. (Rocket engine technology for heavy-lift rocket)

The following impressive video is a successful 200-second rocket-engine burn of the forthcoming 2014 Long March V. Having completed this milestone, the talented rocket scientists have moved on to designing and building the final heavy-lift rocket engine that will carry Chinese taikonauts to the moon.


----------

To place the development of cryogenic rocket engines in its proper historical context, I thought you might want to know that NASA developed the world's first cryo engine in 1961 and China flight-tested her first cryo engine in 1984 (i.e. 27 years ago).

Cryogenic rocket engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The first operational cryogenic rocket engine was the 1961 NASA design the RL-10 LOX LH2 rocket engine, which was used in the Saturn 1 rocket employed in the early stages of the Apollo moon landing program."

YF-73 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The YF-73 is China's first successful, cryogenic, gimballed engine, using liquid hydrogen (LH2) fuel and liquid oxygen (LOX) oxidizer. It was developed in the early 1980s and first flight was in 1984."

9. Build commercial satellites that weigh over 5,000 kg or 10,000 pounds with a service lifetime of 15 years. (World-class satellite technology)

DFH-4 satellite bus (or platform) designed and built by CGWIC (i.e. China Great Wall Industrial Corporation)

10. Demonstrated ASAT (i.e. anti-satellite multistage missile) to destroy a satellite. (Critical capability to deprive another nation of its eyes and ears in the sky; also eliminates GPS guidance for opposing nation's weapons)


Share these pearls with your pakistani friends also. :sick::sick:
 
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Martian is not a troll .I think he is a 40 year old unemployed virgin who plays video games 24 hrs a day!

These type of juvenile personal attacks should really get you banned.

China and India are nothing alike. Surface similarities only.
China is following the East Asian path to development, because we are East Asians.
Find your own road. You'll be better off for it.

---------- Post added at 08:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 PM ----------

China also crashed a rocket on a village killing hundreds of people . We didn't do that either.

No, you just had Bhopal.
 
The articles are from 4 years ago and 1 year ago, respectively.

Boilers have nothing to do with turbines. A boiler is much less complicated than a turbine. I dare not say that a boiler is low tech, but lets put it this way: a jet engine is far more advanced than the fuel tanks.

Dude, don't want to laugh you off but do check post # 111. The turbine and tech of all the components were provided by Siemens.
 
There seems to be a problem with uppity Indians. Now, I see why 1962 was necessary. We will be back to put this new generation of uppity Indians in their place.

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Four important lessons from 1962 Sino-Indian border war

1. When the People's Daily newspaper publishes an article warning you to back off, you better listen. It is a prelude to war. The Indians ignored the warning from the People's Daily in 1962 and they paid the price of defeat in the Sino-Indian border war.

This lesson is applicable today to Vietnam and the Philippines. After the People's Daily, Xinhua, and Global Times warned them of military action, Vietnamese and Filipino provocations in the South China Sea stopped.

Sino-Indian War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"On 22 September 1962, the People's Daily published an article which claimed that "the Chinese people were burning with 'great indignation' over the Indian actions on the border and that New Delhi could not 'now say that warning was not served in advance'."[37][38]
...
On 14 October, an editorial on People's Daily issued China's final warning to India: "So it seems that Mr. Nehru has made up his mind to attack the Chinese frontier guards on an even bigger scale....It is high time to shout to Mr. Nehru that the heroic Chinese troops, with the glorious tradition of resisting foreign aggression, can never be cleared by anyone from their own territory... If there are still some maniacs who are reckless enough to ignore our well-intentioned advice and insist on having another try, well, let them do so. History will pronounce its inexorable verdict... At this critical moment...we still want to appeal once more to Mr. Nehru: better rein in at the edge of the precipice and do not use the lives of Indian troops as stakes in your gamble." [38]"

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2. Chinese weaponry stationed across from Taiwan can be moved to the Indian sector. In 1962, China moved heavy artillery. In the current context, China can move 1,800 short-range ballistic missiles from the Taiwan sector for use against India.

Sino-Indian War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Chinese attention was diverted for a time by the military activity of the Nationalists on Taiwan, but on 23 June the U.S. assured China that a Nationalist invasion would not be permitted.[30] China's heavy artillery facing Taiwan could then be moved to Tibet.[31] It took China six to eight months to gather the resources needed for the war, according to Anil Athale, author of the official Indian history.[31] The Chinese sent a large quantity of non-military supplies to Tibet through the Indian port of Calcutta.[31]"

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3. PLA's blitzkrieg will slice through the enemy's best troops.

Sino-Indian War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Marshal Liu Bocheng headed a group to determine the strategy for the war. He concluded that the opposing Indian troops were among India's best, and to achieve victory would require deploying crack troops and relying on force concentration to achieve decisive victory. On 16 October, this war plan was approved, and on the 18th, the final approval was given by the Politburo for a "self-defensive counter-attack", scheduled for 20 October.[2]
...
At 5:14 am, Chinese mortar fire began attacking the Indian positions. Simultaneously, the Chinese cut the Indian telephone lines, preventing the defenders from making contact with their headquarters. At about 6:30 am, the Chinese infantry launched a surprise attack from the rear and forced the Indians to leave their trenches.[36]

The Chinese troops overwhelmed the Indians in a series of flanking manoeuvres south of the McMahon Line and prompted their withdrawal from Namka Chu.[36] Fearful of continued losses, Indian troops escaped into Bhutan. Chinese forces respected the border and did not pursue.[7] Chinese forces now held all of the territory that was under dispute at the time of the Thag La confrontation, but they continued to advance into the rest of NEFA.[36]
...
Western theatre

On the Aksai Chin front, China already controlled most of the disputed territory. Chinese forces quickly swept the region of any remaining Indian troops.[42] Late on 19 October, Chinese troops launched a number of attacks throughout the western theatre.[8] By 22 October, all posts north of Chushul had been cleared.[8]"

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4. In 1962, the United States rejected India's plea for military jets. Today, China is a well-armed thermonuclear power. What are the chances that the United States would be willing to supply India with a single bullet in the next Sino-Indian border war?

Sino-Indian War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Involvement of other nations

During the conflict, Nehru wrote two desperate letters to JFK, requesting 12 squadrons of fighter jets. These jets were necessary to beef up Indian air strength so that an air war could be initiated safely from the Indian perspective. This request was rejected. According to former Indian diplomat G Parthasarathy, "only after we got nothing from the US did arms supplies from the Soviet Union to India commence." [57] In 1962, President of Pakistan Ayub Khan made clear to India that Indian troops could safely be transferred from the Pakistan frontier to the Himalayas.[58]"
 
See, what did I say !!! :lol:

Come on man, Chinese are like "Apne mooh miya mitthu".. They can spend days praising themselves and bashing evil west off but at the drop off the hat they will copy/Rip off everything & anything western.. No matter what flag a Chinese waves this trait will be easily visible in them.

Look at them, they hate white imperialists but then do any damn thing possible to be in their country/lands.

Michael Levy: "Conundrum": 90 Percent of China's Applicants Cheat

Is this not moral and mental dishonesty, fraud and a criminal act? These morally dishonest people at some later point even start rejecting their ancestry.. They feel ashamed somehow I guess and we have seen numerous such examples on this very forum itself. But then what can we do? Nothing I guess, they are gonna do what they gonna do anyways..
 
How many times did the People's Daily warn Nehru to stop India's aggressive "forward policy"? Like all of the trash-talking Indians in this thread, Nehru refused to listen to Chinese reasoning.

I now understand that Indians like Nehru (and all of the trash-talkers in here) lack critical reasoning. There is no point in talking to uppity Indians. Mao was right. The only thing they understand is a Chinese bullet.

If bullets don't work, I recommend the CCP to use 1967 Chinese thermonuclear technology to solve the problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6Xd7AOHKRs&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW3FBN2zfdk
 
The only 90% I see in India's lack of indoors plumbing.

Serious, 90%, you believe that number pulled out of nowhere.

Truth is American Universities are going out of their to recruit the Chinese Middle Class (remember the so-called Indian Middle class is defined as anyone with $2 to $20 of disposable income per day, and you can't afford American tuition on $2 per day).


Come on man, Chinese are like "Apne mooh miya mitthu".. They can spend days praising themselves and bashing evil west off but at the drop off the hat they will copy/Rip off everything & anything western.. No matter what flag a Chinese waves this trait will be easily visible in them.

Look at them, they hate white imperialists but then do any damn thing possible to be in their country/lands.

Michael Levy: "Conundrum": 90 Percent of China's Applicants Cheat

Is this not moral and mental dishonesty, fraud and a criminal act? These morally dishonest people at some later point even start rejecting their ancestry.. They feel ashamed somehow I guess and we have seen numerous such examples on this very forum itself. But then what can we do? Nothing I guess, they are gonna do what they gonna do anyways..
 
LOL at 13 pages of indian inferiority complex!


You keep on repeating this same thing thousands of times.

You had a stronger base than India during the 1990s. Even now, you are just ahead by ~10 years in GDP figures. May be you can sustain growing by 4 times every decade. We look forward to that.

China's GDP in 2003: $1.641 trillion
India's GDP in 2010: $1.729 trillion

World Bank, World Development Indicators - Google Public Data Explorer

But you are not one to understand facts and figures, are you?

You just have to parade the same BS in every post despite proven wrong every time.
LOL..... your GDP is actually closer to $1.5 trillion US because rupee is so low now. Your GDP actually went down in 2011. You are roughly where China was back in 2002. 9 years ago.

It took China 9 years of growth to get to our monster $7.5 trillion US GDP in 2011. india will take much longer -- 20 to 40 years to reach $7.5 trillion.

india's so called growth just comes from massive consumption and borrowing. The borrowing uses india vast horde of gold as collateral. india's debt crisis is turning it into another Greece or Portugual. It's going to get uglier and uglier for india.

Where China intelligently invested and cleverly dominated industries, india just buys from the West going into debt and deludes itself about being better than China.
 
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