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Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

The news/rumors about this type of radar is not new. They have been appearing consistently in Chinese pressfor for the last two years. last i saw was a news item from Chinese press that this radar was being tested on a Chinese UAV. This time, this rumor was eyectaching because it mentioned for the first time that radar was being tested on a J-10B

There have been reports that USA is also developing this capability as well if they have not done so already.

Here is the news you are talking about

DWL002 "Anti-Stealth" Radar Allegedly Tested on SAC Darksword UCAV

High-precision measurement technology and communication transmission technology, to achieve the goal of accurate positioning. The system relies on GPS or other positioning satellite positioning technology (including China's "Compass" system), and the detection accuracy and time synchronization inseparable. The center of the surveillance system and other surveillance station terminal must maintain accurate time synchronization, or time difference calculated does not make sense. There are many ways to achieve time synchronization, the best way is to have received all the reconnaissance satellite receiving station (such as China's "long river II" systems have this capability, precision 10-6 seconds; the next step such as "Compass" system global network is successful, it will provide more accurate timing ability) of the grant, this approach not only high accuracy but also to achieve global coverage. Reported the actual accuracy of the system can reach 2% ~ 3% (CEP).

Ability to identify a target

Obtain the target location information in the same time, the carrier frequency can be targets, signal intelligence and other forms of information, through its own radiation and the radiation source database platform to achieve recognition.

Use effect

Stealth technology has changed the method of air combat, in particular, stealth aircraft and precision guided weapons, the combination of greatly improved operational efficiency, changing the offensive and defensive strategic balance. The development of anti-stealth technology and weapons systems have become an important and urgent task, and anti-stealth research or the development of stealth technology and the driving force of a stimulus, but also check to verify the performance of their indispensable weapons and stealth means.

DWL002 passive detection radar system is a can of air, ground and sea targets to locate, identify and track the electronic intelligence detection system, which can be used as a passive three-dimensional radar, range up to 500 km. It is a strategic and tactical electronic intelligence and passive surveillance systems. Itself does not radiate electromagnetic signals, but the use of external non-cooperative (ie radiation and radar, "do not take the world", there is no direct relationship between coordinated operations) of the radiation source to detect and locate. Difficult to deal with active radar stealth air targets, while the ears of the system are sharp-eyed soul, able to detect the target even if it is issued by weak or electromagnetic transient electromagnetic signal reflected signals, immediately to targets on the radar screen visible. The layout of the system is usually composed by the four sub-stations: the main station as an electronic warfare center, the analysis and processing center, generally located in the central area, the other three signal receiving stations are located in the surrounding areas, round or curved layout to the main station the layout of the center circle, the system started after deployment, the distance between station and station 50 km. Located in front of the terminal to capture electromagnetic signals to the target immediately after the signal sent to the Electronic Warfare Center, station, central station using multi-directional cross-cutting and other methods to detect the location of targets, the target height of the signal captured by the receiving station to determine, to coordinate the target location.

When the system is deployed in place, according to the command center of the command, simultaneously on land, sea and air search for the passive early warning and reconnaissance. Invisible to the radar target detection, for example, when the target appears, it will certainly be passing through the airspace of the various types of electromagnetic waves, including military radar, microwave communications, civilian radio broadcasting, television transmission of civil, civil microwave communications, the Mobile phone base stations and other class a certain perturbation signal, which is like the calm water in the flying swallow the water after grazing will have a slight ripple, will cause some signal reflection. DWL002 is able to receive and analyze the master of weak electromagnetic signal reflection and analysis of immediate settlement through the center of the computer calculated the corresponding data, thereby to determine the source of the coordinate of the location of signal reflection parameters, and then, through the data link or other information transmission channel, these parameters are passed to one's own anti-aircraft missile units on the ground or air forces, resulting in the most appropriate time to get the opportunity to attack the enemy's stealth targets.

Allegedly, the Chinese used to test DWL002 target the enemy capability to detect stealth simulation goal is to just show up in recent years, cross-section of radar reflectivity is less than 0.01 square meters of "Dark Sword" stealth unmanned test machine. Based on the data, this detection system can accurately identify and determine the location of the air properties stealth targets, and high positioning accuracy, which can be with my air field air defense forces to use.

If you deal with other non-stealth target, China DWL002 more at ease.

In addition to the battlefield as a general early warning and reconnaissance tasks, all of the other effect is the passive radar for air defense surveillance radar main, reduced exposure to the electromagnetic characteristics of other radar and location opportunities for each other in this area of electronic surveillance without power and return, this role is very great significance! United StatesAir ForceIn recent years, the war, why can often play a large exchange ratio of air superiority? It's tactical stealth aircraft are often the first to use pre-ground surveillance radar system a good clean out, so that the other types of radar in the absence of early warning aircraft and air in the case of the blind can not command a decent state of air combat, the aircraft can take off only by virtue of their capability to detect conflicts, often only were bashing, it is impossible to obtain any record!

The system not only has excellent performance of anti-stealth, and not because of its own to any electromagnetic radiation, it can be against enemy electronic jamming and anti-radiation missiles to destroy the survival ability. Passive radar system eliminates the need for expensive high-power transmitter, transceiver switches and related electronic equipment, making the system significantly reduced manufacturing and maintenance costs, lower life cycle cost, and time-domain all-weather and all work effectively.

The current development status

Currently, there are many countries interested in the application of passive detection technology. • Lockheed Martin is the first one of the companies involved in the field, allegedly relying on television and radio transmitters, the passive detection range of the system to 220 km.


U.S. Department of Defense and the Defense Research Projects Agency in advance the University of Washington, Georgia Tech University and other universities and companies such as Raytheon, have carried out research in this field. In Europe, France also carried out the corresponding technical studies, demonstrated a prototype system of Italy, the UK is studying the passive coherent radar and "cellular" radar (Celldar), Russia and Ukraine developed the "armor" radar, the Czech Republic has developed a well-known The "Villa"-E Passive Radar and export many countries.

Stealth aircraft in the face of a direct threat to the United States and, therefore, special attention to anti-stealth technology research. With the exception of Southwest Research Institute developed DWL002 electronic devices, but China has also successfully developed the YLC-20 measured bistatic passive radar system, to and positioning, both of the radar function is almost, but DWL002 something more advanced. Same resonant radar detecting stealth targets are also built in 2001, up to 2,000 km from its role, in addition, said China has also developed a dedicated to detecting stealth aircraft, JY-27 solid-state VHF Radar, to detect not only more effective stealth target, and to anti-radiation missile attack.

As the saying goes, there must be a spear, shield, the development of stealth technology in today's world also gave birth to more anti-stealth technology. Now or in development initiatives and other means of anti-stealth technology also includes the long-wave or millimeter wave radar, carrier-free ultra-wide band radar, laser radar and infrared detection systems, passive radio frequency detection technology, Earth's magnetic field variability detection technology.

To fight against stealth aircraft, they must take various measures and means comprehensive. Reliable anti-stealth detection / attack system, the key is to form a different principle and the complexity of the work of different wavelengths on the sensor network. An important part of this network includes not only the sensor itself, but also on the different sources of data collection, processing, correlation and display process. In addition, in order to achieve the required high detection probability of interception system to provide precise target data, the location of the sensor (not only to the territory along the border and deployed in depth, including air, space guard) is also critical. Therefore, the future of the anti-stealth detection system, is likely to be land, sea, air, space an integrated system, the development of radar, passive detection, perhaps the key point.

China DWL002 passive detection radar system is the world's most advanced anti-stealth aircraft's radar system, its main performance is better than similar foreign radar, therefore, expected that the system will be a lot of the same stealth aircraft threats facing the country of choice. (Guang-Wen Chen)
 
thanks Mani for digging out the news. There has also been news about tests on J-10B. Can you find it.
 
thanks Mani for digging out the news. There has also been news about tests on J-10B. Can you find it.

Never mind. Here is an exerpt of the news item on Chinese website. Need to read to the end.

Japanese news media that China announced in radar, one of the small pod system, has been in the F-10B on the experiment. 他是反隐身的最好手段。 He is the best means of anti-stealth. 因此,F22需要在对付歼10时候,"开足马力,提起精神,跟着预警"。 Therefore, F22 F-10 needs to deal with when the "full steam ahead, lift the spirit, along with early warning

Google Translate
 
Never mind. Here is an exerpt of the news item on Chinese website. Need to read to the end.

Japanese news media that China announced in radar, one of the small pod system, has been in the F-10B on the experiment. 他是反隐身的最好手段。 He is the best means of anti-stealth. 因此,F22需要在对付歼10时候,"开足马力,提起精神,跟着预警"。 Therefore, F22 F-10 needs to deal with when the "full steam ahead, lift the spirit, along with early warning

Google Translate

The translation is pretty awful by google ,also some words are mis-translated , so its a hard read sir, but one can get the overall idea from the article.

But the song in the background is cool, though in Chinese but still a good nut .Did you listen it pshamim sahib?
 
Retractable IFR probe would be nice.
The impact will be marginal untill you have main stores being external, why to incur extra cost when you know you cant fly with clean body...
 
if superior radars do come into service..that can negate the stealth of f-35 i.e able to detect at 100km distance to be least..then it really seems useless to invests so much on f-35 stealth features.?
 
if superior radars do come into service..that can negate the stealth of f-35 i.e able to detect at 100km distance to be least..then it really seems useless to invests so much on f-35 stealth features.?

Sir,

It don't work that way---enemy aircraft will take out the ground radars in due time----regardless of what kind of radar you have---if you don't have the right compliment of aircraft and missile defence to back it up----it will be toast----. You will have to have aircraft with offencive strike capabilties to match the enemy's aircraft capabilities to have some breathing room.

Al radars have inherent weaknesses----being static---they are vulnerable---regardless whatever capabilities they possess.
 
if superior radars do come into service..that can negate the stealth of f-35 i.e able to detect at 100km distance to be least..then it really seems useless to invests so much on f-35 stealth features.?

You cannot stop SEAD dedicated mission, they are specifically dedicated and trained for it. SEAD is supplementary in all out warfare essentially destroying enemy surface-based air defenses. The Americans are specialists in that field they have dedicated squadrons for it and highly train pilots and systems in place.
 
J-20 Mighty Dragon and J-10B Vigorous Dragon together

SpzUl.jpg

J-20 Mighty Dragon and J-10B prepared for another test flight.

arpmD.jpg

China's most-advanced J-20 stealth fighter parked next to pioneering J-10B with DSI.

[Note: Thank you to Martian and "cd nx1974nx" for the pictures.]
 
J-20 Mighty Dragon and J-10B Vigorous Dragon together

SpzUl.jpg

J-20 Mighty Dragon and J-10B prepared for another test flight.

arpmD.jpg

China's most-advanced J-20 stealth fighter parked next to pioneering J-10B with DSI.

[Note: Thank you to Martian and "cd nx1974nx" for the pictures.]
J-20s nose appears to be bigger than J-10B....Different radar on both platforms?....
 
J-20s nose appears to be bigger than J-10B....Different radar on both platforms?....

Thats due to the bigger size of J-20 it can accommodate bigger and more powerful radar, As the AESA radar for J-10B is said to have 1200 TR modules so for 5th generation China is working for something with more modules to differentiate b/w a radar of 4.5 gen and 5th gen aircraft specially when other 5th generation aircrafts in its category are known to have more powerful radars with more than 1500 TR modules, so by increasing the number of modules radar size is due to increase thus resulting in a bigger nose to accommodate it.

The relationship seems to be more of a J-10B and Jf-17's radar , jf-17's nose is relatively smaller than j-10b thus AESA for jf-17 block-2 will be miniaturized form of J-10b in order to accommodate it , unless and untill the nose of jf-17 is re-designed considerably
 
J-20s nose appears to be bigger than J-10B....Different radar on both platforms?....

Of course,j20 and j10b are 2 different AESA radar's options,but both of them from the same place,NanJing 14 radar research institute.however SAC Jxx's AESA radar come from 607 radar research institute.



2 J10B CG(THX blog.sina.com.cn/cadder)

a contrast of J10B PT01 and PT05

285_117146_bbd96b28dd3d0f5.jpg


285_117146_6d627c360ac91e2.jpg
 
Don't know if it is true but suggession have been made that the recent announcement for a squadron of J-10B may very well be in addition to 32 J-10b/FC-20 that Pakistan will purchase. Per my friends, they cannot confirm the news now but the rumor is heard in PAF circles. If true, numbers of FC-20 will increase to 48.

Wonder how Pakistan will pay for all this, but sources insist that China will help in this regard as it is still cheaper for China to make such investment, keeping IAF divided on two fronts and reduce the possibilty of a confrontation with India that may cost 100s of time more.
 
Don't know if it is true but suggession have been made that the recent announcement for a squadron of J-10B may very well be in addition to 32 J-10b/FC-20 that Pakistan will purchase. Per my friends, they cannot confirm the news now but the rumor is heard in PAF circles. If true, numbers of FC-20 will increase to 48.

Wonder how Pakistan will pay for all this, but sources insist that China will help in this regard as it is still cheaper for China to make such investment, keeping IAF divided on two fronts and reduce the possibilty of a confrontation with India that may cost 100s of time more.
J-10B flyaway cost is around 40-42 Million.....I think PAF would have allocation for 36 sanctioned...but next 12 would cost a billion more (much lesser in fact if the infrastructure is already in place)....not something far beyond the reach of funding....of course a soft loan can always be negotiated...
 

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