Cameron's inflammatory comments against Pakistan: I meant Pakistanis are terrorists..

[deckingraj]

But they also offered to sell us electricity. Yes, they have an indian air base but if they considered us rivals they probably wouldn't be ready to sell us electricity - that too in huge amounts.

Buddy India and China have trade worth $60 Billion....US and China have trade in hundreds of Billion dollars, heck even India and Pakistan have trade relations.....Are these countries friends or foe to each other???

 

[SMC]

Huge sale of electricity = huge money to be made. That is business.

What??

Can you imagine India, in the hypothetical time that they have an electricity surplus, selling us electricity? Just because you can sell something, doesn't mean you'll sell it to your enemy.

And if you're talking about huge money to be made, would India be willing to sell some of its defence technology to China?

What about this?

IRIN Asia | PAKISTAN-TAJIKISTAN: Trade deal a positive move - economist | Asia | Pakistan Tajikistan | Economy | News Item

So the only argument is you can count your enemies on your fingers. What a victory

Don't get too ahead of yourself ramu.

I gave my argument as to why to why Tajikistan isn't our rival.
You gave a counter argument, to which I again gave counter argument.

So before you say that "the only argument is you can count your enemies on your fingers", please do wait for my argument to come before getting ahead of yourself.

Besides, that part was merely meant to rub in to your line that we can't count Pakistan rivals on the fingers of a human hand. That's how it all began, ya know.

Russia is not a rival but how will you forget the events of 1971? Has our relations with the then soviet changed to our current relations with Russia? No., it is a time tested relation.

I don't care what your relations are with Russia. Times are changing, your relations with US have significantly improved, and our relations with Russia have slightly improved.

If US was not a against you at some level, tell me why it takes so much bargaining to get weapons even for those that you pay and India gets them with advertised with the slightest request for RFI.

You're side-stepping the argument now. Sure, we had to bargain, but they'd still not be selling us weapons if we were rivals.

Anyway, the argument has now reduced by to whether we can count Pakistan's rivals on your fingers. That is your level of argument. I am sick of the appalling level to which you follow the semantics. Grow up!

It's you who brought up that line and my mention of fingers on a hand was merely meant to be humorous (well I bet you're not finding it funny).

 

[SMC]

Just adding to Ramu's point.....

lets not simplify the definition of rival.... If i go with your defninition then only rival Pakistan have is India and nothing else....Pakistan has not direct conflict with Israel and i don't see any reason they will have one....So please look into direct/indirect rivalry/clash of conflicts.....

If you're to open up the definition of rivalry then the list only gets smaller.

 

[SMC]

Buddy India and China have trade worth $60 Billion....US and China have trade in hundreds of Billion dollars, heck even India and Pakistan have trade relations.....Are these countries friends or foe to each other???

Ok then that's one more rival - Tajikistan.

Still can't see how we've been gaining more and more rivals.

 

[RescueRanger]

Cameron's Kama Sutra moment in India?

Faisal Islam on Economics - Cameron’s Indian Kama Sutra moment?

 

[ramu]

Can you imagine India, in the hypothetical time that they have an electricity surplus, selling us electricity? Just because you can sell something, doesn't mean you'll sell it to your enemy.

That hypothetical time is not so hard to imagine. We are having negotiations with Bangladesh to deliver electricity surplus. We are also building power plants in Bangladesh.

Forget about electricity, India has given Pakistan MFN status in trade and if you don;t respond in the same token whose fault is it? We have the largest system of dams and water management in Gujarat the power is in surplus in the non peak hours. If Pakistan requested India to sell the same, I don't think we have a problem either.

And if you're talking about huge money to be made, would India be willing to sell some of its defence technology to China?

Again, we have a trade relation with China that is hard to ignore. India and China do not buy and sell weapons for many reasons. To be honest Indian defense technology needs a lot of catching up and it is unlikely China will be interested in what we offer. Please note that money need not be made only with defense supplies. That is a myopic view.

Trade agreement with Tajikistan and the total volume of trade is ? It looks good on paper.

I don't care what your relations are with Russia. Times are changing, your relations with US have significantly improved, and our relations with Russia have slightly improved.

Relations with Russia have improved but you have a bigger problem. China is seen as a country that has friction with Russia. JF-17 engine for example is a case in point. Irrespective of the outcome of which engine is used, Russian and Chinese relations are not something that will be at the cost of India. And India will not stop buying weapons from Russia anytime soon.

I gave my argument as to why to why Tajikistan isn't our rival. You gave a counter argument, to which I again gave counter argument.

Your counter argument of trade is flawed when you see the same status of India-china rivalry with a bulging trade. But if you fail to acknowledge that, I wont go out of my way to convince you.

I think we both know about the US - Pak, UK - Pak relations. It is a relation with deep trust

 

[SMC]

That hypothetical time is not so hard to imagine. We are having negotiations with Bangladesh to deliver electricity surplus. We are also building power plants in Bangladesh.

Forget about electricity, India has given Pakistan MFN status in trade and if you don;t respond in the same token whose fault is it? We have the largest system of dams and water management in Gujarat the power is in surplus in the non peak hours. If Pakistan requested India to sell the same, I don't think we have a problem either.

Again, we have a trade relation with China that is hard to ignore. India and China do not buy and sell weapons for many reasons. To be honest Indian defense technology needs a lot of catching up and it is unlikely China will be interested in what we offer. Please note that money need not be made only with defense supplies. That is a myopic view.

Trade agreement with Tajikistan and the total volume of trade is ? It looks good on paper.

Yes, I just agreed that Tajikistan is Pakistan's rival. However, there's a case that Israel is not Pakistan's rival. So I count 3 or 4 at best.

Relations with Russia have improved but you have a bigger problem. China is seen as a country that has friction with Russia. JF-17 engine for example is a case in point. Irrespective of the outcome of which engine is used, Russian and Chinese relations are not something that will be at the cost of India. And India will not stop buying weapons from Russia anytime soon.

The deal is continuing. More importantly, considering the fact that it's a defence deal and not a trade deal, it shatters any argument of rivalry.

I think we both know about the US - Pak, UK - Pak relations. It is a relation with deep trust

Yes, one must have deep trust to not be considered rivals.

Aid, weapons selling, military support, etc doesn't count.

 

[deckingraj]

Ok then that's one more rival - Tajikistan.

Still can't see how we've been gaining more and more rivals.

I am not here to prove Pakistan has more rivals or gaining more rivals or anything like that....But yes if for your policies have increased number of rivals from a number to a higher number then what it was in the past then yes you need to change those policies.....Now it is upto People of Pakistan to chose their route....One thing is for sure if you are directly/indirectly involved in terrorism of any kind then you are going to end up having more rivals then friends.....If you are not involved and yet terrorist from safe heavens in Pak strike other part in the world then you will end up having more rivals....

For example by not recognizing Israel and participating against them you have created a very potent rival....Now did that help Pak more then what it harmed i don't know...It is you guys who need to find out...From Indian POV we chose to have both(Israel-palestine) our friends.....

 

[SMC]

I am not here to prove Pakistan has more rivals or gaining more rivals or anything like that....But yes if for your policies have increased number of rivals from a number to a higher number then what it was in the past then yes you need to change those policies.....Now it is upto People of Pakistan to chose their route....One thing is for sure if you are directly/indirectly involved in terrorism of any kind then you are going to end up having more rivals then friends.....If you are not involved and yet terrorist from safe heavens in Pak strike other part in the world then you will end up having more rivals....

For example by not recognizing Israel and participating against them you have created a very potent rival....Now did that help Pak more then what it harmed i don't know...It is you guys who need to find out...From Indian POV we chose to have both our friends.....

Yes, I agree there are things that need to be done. Recognizing Israel won't go down well in Pakistan and in other muslim countries so that won't happen. Plus their Palestinian occupation and oppression is not something that we can ignore. India OTOH has a luxury to be friends with Israel as there's no domestic pressure or international pressure.

There's circumstances that lead to creating more enemies and we can't just be friends with everyone. India, for instance, has Pakistan and perhaps China as rivals. I really don't think that the number of our enemies is too high or is something too alarming.

You're counting 3 or 4 states at best and Afghanistan is negligible since their state is very weak at the moment.

 

[ramu]

Who says that someone who is weak cannot be a rival ? Afghanistan government can if it decides give you more trouble than India and Israel together and your immediate challenge is to address Afghanistan and not Israel or India. Keep adding to your list and you will get to a number I have in mind.

 

[Icarus]

It is time you stop thinking you are an expert in English as it clearly shows you have crude and rudimentary knowledge of words and try and impose the same nuances on others.

Please refrain from resorting to cheap shots like making fun of others linguistic skills.

About Tajikistan, they will be very relevant given the distance of Indian air base form Pakistan Occupied Kashmir.

Just because they gave you a military base does not make them our rivals or your bosom buddies, it's just good business.
U.S has military bases in KSA does it make KSA the enemy of Russia ?
Last time I checked Russia had no issues with KSA.

 

[SMC]

Yes, it can give us trouble and so I am sure ISI/army is working on it to negate that problem.

Now whom have we been adding to our list? Afghanistan is the only new entry in the last 10 years. Everyone else is decades old.

 

[SMC]

Just because they gave you a military base does not make them our rivals or your bosom buddies, it's just good business.
U.S has military bases in KSA does it make KSA the enemy of Russia ?
Last time I checked Russia had no issues with KSA.

Good one. I missed that angle. Quite a small list compared to the overestimated list indians have been presenting here.

 

[ramu]

Just because they gave you a military base does not make them our rivals or your bosom buddies, it's just good business.
U.S has military bases in KSA does it make KSA the enemy of Russia ?
Last time I checked Russia had no issues with KSA.

Just take a look at the location of Indian airbase and then reassess whether the base is pure business. I will leave it to you to decide as it is no point proving this further.

 

[karan.1970]

In my view, having rivals is not bad.. Justs mean you are competing in a wider field. Enemies on the other hand is an all together different thing. Today, in my view, India has only one enemy that is Pakistan and vice versa... And my definition is simple.. Enemy is a person/state who you would want to hurt even without Provocation. And for India and Pakistan each, only one nation passes that test.

China can be called a marginal enemy to India and on the same lines, Afghanistan is for Pakistan..

Beyond this, there are only national interests that keep changing...