Basic policies for Pakistan : Medical and Pension

[fitpOsitive]

This will be a series of threads. Since many years now, I was wondering and still do, that if people sitting in govt and high offices are not working and straitening basic functions of state and administration, then what actually they are doing? So, may be they are out of Ideas, and let us, the PDF, supply them with basic ideas, on how to do things. Lets get started with with our first topic. I will talk in layman language, so if somebody wants to contribute in more technical language he/she is more than most welcome.

Average employed Pakistani gets either some money in terms of medical allowance or "Free Medical" for self and family, or both. This too, becomes so limited when someone is employed with a private firm. And this becomes non-existent when someone is self-employed. So, you might have heard people calling for help when they are in medical emergency. Similarly, poor and rich, both "enjoy" different level of medical facilities, and often elite of Pakistan goes to London for medical treatment and poor is left unassisted.
But govt can enforce yet another system, that will ensure that everyone in the country is medically ensured and is treated properly. We can bring in big giants, who will collect the medical allowances of each individual, and in return will provide medical coverage for whole of the family. (a family is : Employee, his/her parents, his/her spouse, and their individual/combined children). For self-employed people, their should minimum income surety from the govt, and hence some minimum fixed amount that they will pay in terms of medical insurance. In that way, we will streamline many many issues all at once.
(Readers input here is highly appreciated).


Second issue is Pension. In Pakistan, govt pays Pension only to the ex-govt employees. The issue is, why only govt employees? The non-govt-ex-employees were also paying taxes for whole of their lives. What about them? So. its better to make a single pension policy for all the people working in Pakistan. If they paid tax for certain period of time, whether they were doing business, or were employed with govt or private sector, then they must be entitled for pension(according to the taxes they paid, including depreciation or money devaluation).
(Readers input here is highly appreciated).

Will keep posting other topics in same series.

In last some words for general awareness. When govt doesn't care for people, people leave their country. That's the reason, when a soldier, who stands at boarder for whole of his life, the one, who has many bullet marks on his body, presented his chest bravely for all the bullets that were meant to enter Pakistan, that very soldier also leaves Pakistan after retirement, and lives in Europe with his children for their safety and prosperity.

Care for people, they are your best allies, and all humans have same basic nature. Everyone demands care. And that's the reason why Europe and USA are so dominant on this world: They care for their people.

@blueazure Can you please shed some light how these health insurance companies work, and how we can bring home grown(ADAMJEE or JUBILEE) or companies from abroad.

@HAIDER @Mentee @Mangus Ortus Novem @graphican @ps3linux

 

[litman]

government employees are not allowed to have a side job. they have only one government job and they are the only ones who are paying their full taxes. so the facility of pension should be for them. the non government employees have option of doing more then 1 jobs and majority of them dont pay the due taxes so they should not be entitled to pension.
no body should have free medical facility. there should be some way through which the individual pays the government at least some of his medical fee.

 

[fitpOsitive]

government employees are not allowed to have a side job. they have only one government job and they are the only ones who are paying their full taxes. so the facility of pension should be for them. the non government employees have option of doing more then 1 jobs and majority of them dont pay the due taxes so they should not be entitled to pension.
no body should have free medical facility. there should be some way through which the individual pays the government at least some of his medical fee.

General taxes are deducted automatically for both govt employees and non govt employees. And they pay same taxes.

 

[blueazure]

insurance companies basically take a pool of money from people who ' buy ' the policy .

the amount they pay to buy the policy for a year ( or two years, or ten years) is called ' the premium' .

for every recurring year, you have to buy the 'premium' again ( depending upon the policy) .

for every event that occurs, the insurance company will pay you a certain amount ( not the whole amount) and you will pay an amount ( called a deductible )

for eg, you buy a car and get it insured for accident . you pay a premium of 1 lac per year . for any accident, the company will pay u 70% , while you pay 30 Percent ( called deductible)

in short, insurance companies take a pool of money from people and they have data and acturial sciences people who make probability analysis of the event occurring . the 'equity' they raise via premiums is invested in stocks, real estate , metals etc and actually that is profit of these companies while the cover they pay to policy holders is the 'debt' , kind of like banking ( read fractional reserve )

-------------------------------

 

[ps3linux]

This will be a series of threads. Since many years now, I was wondering and still do, that if people sitting in govt and high offices are not working and straitening basic functions of state and administration, then what actually they are doing? So, may be they are out of Ideas, and let us, the PDF, supply them with basic ideas, on how to do things. Lets get started with with our first topic. I will talk in layman language, so if somebody wants to contribute in more technical language he/she is more than most welcome.

Average employed Pakistani gets either some money in terms of medical allowance or "Free Medical" for self and family, or both. This too, becomes so limited when someone is employed with a private firm. And this becomes non-existent when someone is self-employed. So, you might have heard people calling for help when they are in medical emergency. Similarly, poor and rich, both "enjoy" different level of medical facilities, and often elite of Pakistan goes to London for medical treatment and poor is left unassisted.
But govt can enforce yet another system, that will ensure that everyone in the country is medically ensured and is treated properly. We can bring in big giants, who will collect the medical allowances of each individual, and in return will provide medical coverage for whole of the family. (a family is : Employee, his/her parents, his/her spouse, and their individual/combined children). For self-employed people, their should minimum income surety from the govt, and hence some minimum fixed amount that they will pay in terms of medical insurance. In that way, we will streamline many many issues all at once.
(Readers input here is highly appreciated).


Second issue is Pension. In Pakistan, govt pays Pension only to the ex-govt employees. The issue is, why only govt employees? The non-govt-ex-employees were also paying taxes for whole of their lives. What about them? So. its better to make a single pension policy for all the people working in Pakistan. If they paid tax for certain period of time, whether they were doing business, or were employed with govt or private sector, then they must be entitled for pension(according to the taxes they paid, including depreciation or money devaluation).
(Readers input here is highly appreciated).

Will keep posting other topics in same series.

In last some words for general awareness. When govt doesn't care for people, people leave their country. That's the reason, when a soldier, who stands at boarder for whole of his life, the one, who has many bullet marks on his body, presented his chest bravely for all the bullets that were meant to enter Pakistan, that very soldier also leaves Pakistan after retirement, and lives in Europe with his children for their safety and prosperity.

Care for people, they are your best allies, and all humans have same basic nature. Everyone demands care. And that's the reason why Europe and USA are so dominant on this world: They care for their people.

@blueazure Can you please shed some light how these health insurance companies work, and how we can bring home grown(ADAMJEE or JUBILEE) or companies from abroad.

@HAIDER @Mentee @Mangus Ortus Novem @graphican @ps3linux

Nice topic my specialty

First thing Insurance Health and Life:

Health insurance if one is working for a corporate one enjoys excellent health insurance again depending upon corporate who cover their employees from basic to way beyond extra ordinary, health insurance providers are Jubilee life, Allianz EFU, few general insurance companies shittiest of them all is pak qatar, under the false guise of Islamic these are the worst platforms be it meezan bank or any other Islamic bank. Jubilee is the best then again it depends on the corporate how much they are willing to invest on their people or interested in the well being of their employees. I have experience for Pakistani and western standard trust me when I say we are the worst when it comes to taking care of our human capital. Once we turn 60 retirement and you loose insurance cover, in the US the insurance rates are fixed based upon age brackets and they are very much affordable one has choice to select among various insurance providers, here beyond 60 when the actual age related problems occur pretty much non-affordable health insurance.

Insaaf Sehat Card is a good initiative, what I think is that its scope should be expanded to national level for all population corporate/Govt Bodies/even private citizen willing to pay should be enrolled, insurance companies should be brought under a tighter framework to cover health after 60 years. No private or individual health insurance should be allowed. We may even adopt UAE health insurance system.

Life is altogether is a different topic, life insurance in Pakistan is being sold as investment and comes under misselling but all is ok since all commercial banks are selling this under the name of banca, over 94% of SBP CPD complaints are linked to only this.

Govt at any level is oblivious to the needs of the Pakistani populations, bureaucrats/faujis/politicians all have their respective islands and they don't understand or care about the people.

I have no idea (despite the fact that I have given countless suggestions to concerned authorities) why policy makers don't understand may be they don't want to do it altogether.

Risk Management and Insurance Planning is such a large topic that I cannot cover it on this board.

Next comes Retirement benefits or pensions, one of the worst things about Pakistan is that a stupid employee benefit plan under provident fund is allowed to almost every employer, whereas it is my opinion that there should be a variety of private sector companies or something like US Social Security should be setup (although I have zero trust in the public sector of Pakistan), there are private voluntary pension schemes being managed by asset management companies but there is no check on their performance they are really screwing pension money.

What has the Govt done to provide retirement benefits to its people, is the Govt only responsible for Govt employees and faujis, what about rest of the population. Important questions, since this is not only my specialty but interest area so I will be contributing to it along my ideas. The competence of Govt and the provincial Govt is no one has the exact idea how many employees are there under federal Govt or provincial Govt, every figure quoted by them is estimate.

Mr. Khoja used to be Punjab Pension Fund Head and I have seen so many memo, estimates of Punjab Govt total no of employees that it became a joke between us the estimates have an error of not few dozens its damn over 20,000. Expecting something from this rotten bureaucracy is more than expecting ostriches to fly. Did I mention why contract of Mr. Khoja was not renewed by current Govt because all the ba**ard buaeucrats ganged up against him as he refused in accommodating any favorite company/brokerage house and refused to accommodate any children/nephew nieces of these bureaucrats and guess what whom they brought in as replacement someone from "Sindh Pension Fund" and we all know for the last 70 years this "Bold" word is synonymous with corruption.

 

[litman]

General taxes are deducted automatically for both govt employees and non govt employees. And they pay same taxes.

but still non government employees have the option of a second job while others dont.

 

[313ghazi]

Don't go down the route of an American system, short term to increase the availability of healthcare this is okay, but we need to replicate the British system.

State owned hospitals, state employed doctors, state collects taxes specifically for medical (National health insurance we call it here - it's 5% of your salary), this is used as a pool to pay for healthcare. The state could even use this fund to invest and make more money (like the insurance companies do) to provide profits to put back into the system.

That's the ideal we should work towards.

 

[fitpOsitive]

insurance companies basically take a pool of money from people who ' buy ' the policy .

the amount they pay to buy the policy for a year ( or two years, or ten years) is called ' the premium' .

for every recurring year, you have to buy the 'premium' again ( depending upon the policy) .

for every event that occurs, the insurance company will pay you a certain amount ( not the whole amount) and you will pay an amount ( called a deductible )

for eg, you buy a car and get it insured for accident . you pay a premium of 1 lac per year . for any accident, the company will pay u 70% , while you pay 30 Percent ( called deductible)

in short, insurance companies take a pool of money from people and they have data and acturial sciences people who make probability analysis of the event occurring . the 'equity' they raise via premiums is invested in stocks, real estate , metals etc and actually that is profit of these companies while the cover they pay to policy holders is the 'debt' , kind of like banking ( read fractional reserve )

-------------------------------

So, if employer directly pays off for employees, then it seems a win win situation for the general masses and of course the company itself, yeah? And whole of the medical system might be benefitted with it.

Nice topic my specialty

First thing Insurance Health and Life:

Health insurance if one is working for a corporate one enjoys excellent health insurance again depending upon corporate who cover their employees from basic to way beyond extra ordinary, health insurance providers are Jubilee life, Allianz EFU, few general insurance companies shittiest of them all is pak qatar, under the false guise of Islamic these are the worst platforms be it meezan bank or any other Islamic bank. Jubilee is the best then again it depends on the corporate how much they are willing to invest on their people or interested in the well being of their employees. I have experience for Pakistani and western standard trust me when I say we are the worst when it comes to taking care of our human capital. Once we turn 60 retirement and you loose insurance cover, in the US the insurance rates are fixed based upon age brackets and they are very much affordable one has choice to select among various insurance providers, here beyond 60 when the actual age related problems occur pretty much non-affordable health insurance.

Insaaf Sehat Card is a good initiative, what I think is that its scope should be expanded to national level for all population corporate/Govt Bodies/even private citizen willing to pay should be enrolled, insurance companies should be brought under a tighter framework to cover health after 60 years. No private or individual health insurance should be allowed. We may even adopt UAE health insurance system.

Life is altogether is a different topic, life insurance in Pakistan is being sold as investment and comes under misselling but all is ok since all commercial banks are selling this under the name of banca, over 94% of SBP CPD complaints are linked to only this.

Govt at any level is oblivious to the needs of the Pakistani populations, bureaucrats/faujis/politicians all have their respective islands and they don't understand or care about the people.

I have no idea (despite the fact that I have given countless suggestions to concerned authorities) why policy makers don't understand may be they don't want to do it altogether.

Risk Management and Insurance Planning is such a large topic that I cannot cover it on this board.

Next comes Retirement benefits or pensions, one of the worst things about Pakistan is that a stupid employee benefit plan under provident fund is allowed to almost every employer, whereas it is my opinion that there should be a variety of private sector companies or something like US Social Security should be setup (although I have zero trust in the public sector of Pakistan), there are private voluntary pension schemes being managed by asset management companies but there is no check on their performance they are really screwing pension money.

What has the Govt done to provide retirement benefits to its people, is the Govt only responsible for Govt employees and faujis, what about rest of the population. Important questions, since this is not only my specialty but interest area so I will be contributing to it along my ideas. The competence of Govt and the provincial Govt is no one has the exact idea how many employees are there under federal Govt or provincial Govt, every figure quoted by them is estimate.

Mr. Khoja used to be Punjab Pension Fund Head and I have seen so many memo, estimates of Punjab Govt total no of employees that it became a joke between us the estimates have an error of not few dozens its damn over 20,000. Expecting something from this rotten bureaucracy is more than expecting ostriches to fly. Did I mention why contract of Mr. Khoja was not renewed by current Govt because all the ba**ard buaeucrats ganged up against him as he refused in accommodating any favorite company/brokerage house and refused to accommodate any children/nephew nieces of these bureaucrats and guess what whom they brought in as replacement someone from "Sindh Pension Fund" and we all know for the last 70 years this "Bold" word is synonymous with corruption.

So the take is: govt doesn't know what their people are doing exactly. And this leads to great great security gap, along with mismanagement and wastage of resources. Indeed many things to fix.

 

[VCheng]

(Readers input here is highly appreciated).

The devil lies in the details, specifically the financial numbers required to implement such schemes in an effective manner. The government simply does not have the resources to make it happen at the present time. At some point in the future, a larger economy can make welfare possible.

 

[fitpOsitive]

but still non government employees have the option of a second job while others dont.

Second job or third job, it's not about how much they are earning, it's about how much they get in return for what they pay.

The devil lies in the details, specifically the financial numbers required to implement such schemes in an effective manner. The government simply does not have the resources to make it happen at the present time. At some point in the future, a larger economy can make welfare possible.

It's all about managing things.
Jis qaroon k khazany ki talash main ham Pakistani sari zindagi apni khushion ka gala ghontty rehtay hain, yaqeen kijiay, woh hamain kabhi nahi milta.

 

[VCheng]

It's all about managing things.
Jis qaroon k khazany ki talash main ham Pakistani sari zindagi apni khushion ka gala ghontty rehtay hain, yaqeen kijiay, woh hamain kabhi nahi milta.

As long as debt servicing and defense expenditure take priority over social development, such deprivation will remain.

 

[S.Y.A]

but still non government employees have the option of a second job while others dont.

yeah,no. employees in private firms usually work very long hours, and cant have a 2nd job or business even if they are allowed to. on the other hand, most of the people employed by the civil govt are doing a side business, because they have tonnes of time to waste. the business is usually in someone else's name (just like nawaz shareef and the 2 year old babloo)

 

[B.K.N]

As long as debt servicing and defense expenditure take priority over social development, such deprivation will remain.

He is talking about personal lives of people not government expenditures
It will always remain same being rich or poor are relative to each other

​

 

[VCheng]

He is talking about personal lives of people not government expenditures
It will always remain same being rich or poor are relative to each other

​

And here I thought he was talking about providing medical and pension facilities for the people.

 

[S.Y.A]

The devil lies in the details, specifically the financial numbers required to implement such schemes in an effective manner. The government simply does not have the resources to make it happen at the present time. At some point in the future, a larger economy can make welfare possible.

Then they can pass laws so that private firms are the ones providing those benefits to their employees, they can invest their money to fund good pension and health schemes. all the private firms care about is how much they can squeeze out of their employee while giving the bare minimum in return.