What's new

Attack Copters Wipe Out Chinese Tanks in Simulated Battle !

BoQ77

BANNED
Joined
Jul 29, 2012
Messages
8,704
Reaction score
0
Country
Viet Nam
Location
Viet Nam
Attack Copters Wipe Out Chinese Tanks in Simulated Battle
War game underlines armor's weakness

type-99g-main-battle-tank-2-640x300.jpg


Recently, a Chinese tank company with the Nanjing Military Region went on the attack. The mission — punch through an enemy defense, press forward and eliminate any resistance along the way.

This was, of course, an exercise. And the exercise was going well. The armored beasts busted through their objective … when two enemy helicopters armed with anti-tank missiles arrived.

Within moments, the helicopters effectively “destroyed” the whole company, according to a July 25 article in the Chinese military newspaper Jiefangjun Bao Online. The paper noted the helicopter counter-attack “set off an uproar in the brigade.”

南京军区某装甲旅实战化新课目将短板补在战前 - 中国军网

The U.S. Army’s Foreign Military Studies Office took note of the exercise in its monthly journal OE Watch. “It was … apparent that commanders were not staying abreast of recent changes in warfare,” the journal stated.

OE Watch translated the newspaper article:

When they exploited the victory and staged attacks on “remnant enemies,” two “enemy” helicopter gunships suddenly appeared and fired a number of anti-tank missiles. Facing the abrupt counter-attacks from the opponent, the Fourth Company was knocked off stride and forced into a messy condition. Multiple tanks were hit, releasing red smoke. The battle damage rate of the tanks reached 80 percent.

A typical Chinese tank company has 14 tanks. So, roughly 10 or 11 tanks wouldn’t have made it had the battle been real.

Now, this isn’t surprising. The Chinese army has little combat experience — its last war in 1979 was with Vietnam. Its training programs accordingly suffer, and the unexpected arrival of a new threat resulted in heavy “casualties.”

It’s also further ammunition for the argument that tanks are becoming obsolete. The proliferation of small, tank-busting guided missiles fired from aircraft or on the ground can quickly turn an armored column into burning metal. Not to mention the threat from artillery, which has devastated both Russian-made tanks on both sides of the war in Ukraine.

Then there’s Syria. Within the first two years of the civil war, the Syrian army lost an appalling 1,800 tanks. The counter-argument is that its tactics were terrible, with tanks sent into built-up urban areas where rebels easily blew them up with rockets and improvised mines.

Tanks work best when concentrated. One by one and without infantry support, they die. Replicate that across an entire country, and the losses add up.

Same goes for China. But Jiefangjun Bao Online, in its typically optimistic way, described some of the changes the tank company made to its training.

To solve the difficult issue of air defense for tank detachments, they selected backbone specialists to pool collective wisdom for tackling the crucial issues, invited experts from military academies to give guidance on the spot, explored a series of combat and training methods, such as “discharging foil to disrupt missiles,” “discharging smoke for concealment and dispersion.” They also added this to the training plan as routine training courses.

In a test based on engagements between opposing forces last month, the Fourth Tank Company once again encountered “enemy” helicopters. It not only preserved 70 percent of its combat power, but also expelled the “enemy” helicopters by means of concentrated fire.

So perhaps the death of the tank is an exaggeration, after all.

51092010.jpg
 
Luckily, that happened during training session.
1. the exercise was proceeded without serious attitude
2. the related unit forget to keep an eye on radar anytime
3. the tank crew totally don't know how to react the sudden attack by copters.

I didn't focus on the quality of armor, because this is exercise only, the tank was hit then considered a kill.
 
Last edited:
There were a of probability that can be explained in that exercise.

1. Is the incompetent of tank company commander. If that's what happen, then he'll definitely be replaced by other.
2. They were experimenting Chopter tactic. We are all know that it is only recently that China possessed Z-10 and Z-19. So they need to create new tactics and strategy to improve their gun-ship capability. To be able to wipe out a whole tank company means that their tactic works as intended.
3. They were experimenting tank warfare. To find a new model of tactic / improvement for their tank. Being wipe out by 2 gun ships mean that their tanks need upgrade. The question is, what kind of upgrade that those Type 96 / Type 99 need.

But, to tell you the truth, that this exercise will only make them better than before. If they experimenting a tank company wipe out, then they are already aware of the weakness. We can only expect a better tactic / tank in near future.
 
Last edited:
Attack Copters Wipe Out Chinese Tanks in Simulated Battle
War game underlines armor's weakness

type-99g-main-battle-tank-2-640x300.jpg


Recently, a Chinese tank company with the Nanjing Military Region went on the attack. The mission — punch through an enemy defense, press forward and eliminate any resistance along the way.

This was, of course, an exercise. And the exercise was going well. The armored beasts busted through their objective … when two enemy helicopters armed with anti-tank missiles arrived.

Within moments, the helicopters effectively “destroyed” the whole company, according to a July 25 article in the Chinese military newspaper Jiefangjun Bao Online. The paper noted the helicopter counter-attack “set off an uproar in the brigade.”

南京军区某装甲旅实战化新课目将短板补在战前 - 中国军网

The U.S. Army’s Foreign Military Studies Office took note of the exercise in its monthly journal OE Watch. “It was … apparent that commanders were not staying abreast of recent changes in warfare,” the journal stated.

OE Watch translated the newspaper article:

When they exploited the victory and staged attacks on “remnant enemies,” two “enemy” helicopter gunships suddenly appeared and fired a number of anti-tank missiles. Facing the abrupt counter-attacks from the opponent, the Fourth Company was knocked off stride and forced into a messy condition. Multiple tanks were hit, releasing red smoke. The battle damage rate of the tanks reached 80 percent.

A typical Chinese tank company has 14 tanks. So, roughly 10 or 11 tanks wouldn’t have made it had the battle been real.

Now, this isn’t surprising. The Chinese army has little combat experience — its last war in 1979 was with Vietnam. Its training programs accordingly suffer, and the unexpected arrival of a new threat resulted in heavy “casualties.”

It’s also further ammunition for the argument that tanks are becoming obsolete. The proliferation of small, tank-busting guided missiles fired from aircraft or on the ground can quickly turn an armored column into burning metal. Not to mention the threat from artillery, which has devastated both Russian-made tanks on both sides of the war in Ukraine.

Then there’s Syria. Within the first two years of the civil war, the Syrian army lost an appalling 1,800 tanks. The counter-argument is that its tactics were terrible, with tanks sent into built-up urban areas where rebels easily blew them up with rockets and improvised mines.

Tanks work best when concentrated. One by one and without infantry support, they die. Replicate that across an entire country, and the losses add up.

Same goes for China. But Jiefangjun Bao Online, in its typically optimistic way, described some of the changes the tank company made to its training.

To solve the difficult issue of air defense for tank detachments, they selected backbone specialists to pool collective wisdom for tackling the crucial issues, invited experts from military academies to give guidance on the spot, explored a series of combat and training methods, such as “discharging foil to disrupt missiles,” “discharging smoke for concealment and dispersion.” They also added this to the training plan as routine training courses.

In a test based on engagements between opposing forces last month, the Fourth Tank Company once again encountered “enemy” helicopters. It not only preserved 70 percent of its combat power, but also expelled the “enemy” helicopters by means of concentrated fire.

So perhaps the death of the tank is an exaggeration, after all.

51092010.jpg

As if Chinese armour are dumb enough to travel w/o support?

HQ-17: A Classic Russian Missile With A New Chinese Twist | Popular Science

HQ-17 01.jpg


HQ-17 missile range is 12km and US hell fire missile is 8km. Apache, please come towards the Chinese amour column. You will be shot down even before you get near the killing range of your hell fire missiles :D

The Chinese armour are just practicing the worst scenario w/o air cover. In normal war on move, they will be accompany by HQ-17.
 
I always wonder why can't tanks around the world carry MANPADs along with their AA guns!

make sure that you acknowledged well the situation described in the article.

 
Last edited:
Post like this is why sometimes I prefer talking to people with at least a tiny bit of military knowledge.

Can you give me an explanation?

make sure that you acknowledged well the situation described in the article.

The article highlights the threat posed by Attack helicopters to MBTs right? MBTs around the world uses 12.7 MM guns as their main defense against Attack helis (I am not counting SAMs or self propelled AAs that might be accompanying the MBTs). My question is, why can't there be MANPADs in the MBTs , fired by the tank crew that could give them a better chance against Attack helicopters?
 
Can you give me an explanation?



The article highlights the threat posed by Attack helicopters to MBTs right? MBTs around the world uses 12.7 MM guns as their main defense against Attack helis (I am not counting SAMs or self propelled AAs that might be accompanying the MBTs). My question is, why can't there be MANPADs in the MBTs , fired by the tank crew that could give them a better chance against Attack helicopters?

I must tell you Manpads can't help in that case while the attacker forget to track the threat from the ambush by copters.
in other words, they didn't apply the air defense cover for the tank formation.

MANPADS can't alert you about a nearby copter. And against an ambush, MANPADS nearly helpless. The formation turn to messy as reported in the article after some moments.
 
Last edited:
both have own advantages and disadvantageous .game can not be one way
 
why is the article surprising in any way whatsoever? everyone knows helis are damn good at killing tanks.
but we also know helis are damn vulnerable to atk given their low altitude making them targets for nearly everyone on the ground that can shoot. clearly a armor company is not going to travel alone when it knows the enemy has airpower

and i dont see why the articles thinks this exercise is because the chinese have no experience or are too dumb to figure out helis are good at killing tanks. even the most casual military watcher can tell you tanking facing heis alone is a bad idea. China however is known to put its troops through the most "unfair" training sometimes, it always assumes the enemy is more technologically advanced and you dont have much support. some trainings,they'll tell the troops they have to go from point A to point B, then they get going, moments later, they suddenly tell them 75% of the company is dead because the enemy drops a nuke on them. other times they assume, you have no air support because of enemy air superiority. this could very well be one of those.
 
.... The mission — punch through an enemy defense, press forward and eliminate any resistance along the way.
This was, of course, an exercise. And the exercise was going well. The armored beasts busted through their objective … when two enemy helicopters armed with anti-tank missiles arrived.
Within moments, the helicopters effectively “destroyed” the whole company, according to a July 25 article in the Chinese military newspaper Jiefangjun Bao Online. The paper noted the helicopter counter-attack “set off an uproar in the brigade.”

南京军区某装甲旅实战化新课目将短板补在战前 - 中国军网

The U.S. Army’s Foreign Military Studies Office took note of the exercise in its monthly journal OE Watch. “It was … apparent that commanders were not staying abreast of recent changes in warfare,” the journal stated.

OE Watch translated the newspaper article:

When they exploited the victory and staged attacks on “remnant enemies,” two “enemy” helicopter gunships suddenly appeared and fired a number of anti-tank missiles. Facing the abrupt counter-attacks from the opponent, the Fourth Company was knocked off stride and forced into a messy condition. Multiple tanks were hit, releasing red smoke. The battle damage rate of the tanks reached 80 percent.

A typical Chinese tank company has 14 tanks. So, roughly 10 or 11 tanks wouldn’t have made it had the battle been real.

......
Same goes for China. But Jiefangjun Bao Online, in its typically optimistic way, described some of the changes the tank company made to its training.

To solve the difficult issue of air defense for tank detachments, they selected backbone specialists to pool collective wisdom for tackling the crucial issues, invited experts from military academies to give guidance on the spot, explored a series of combat and training methods, such as “discharging foil to disrupt missiles,” “discharging smoke for concealment and dispersion.” They also added this to the training plan as routine training courses.

Who put the enemy attack helicopters into this exercise may help to point out the current weakness as described, without it, the attackers get great victory already and never get pressure to improve. Yeah that make the unit stronger ( of course that's purpose of any exercise )
 
Last edited:
PLA tanks need WZ-10 & WZ-19 armed helo fleet or HQ-17 & HQ-7B SAM or PGZ-07 SPAAG or HJ-12 & FN-6 MANPADs to protect.
 

Back
Top Bottom