Article 370 : A debate

[About.to.be.banned]

It is ridiculously easy for a state to change the demographics of a region. Overnight.

Ask Pakistan in GB.

Ask China in Tibet.

India is trying to prove a point. I'm afraid after Col. Rai's death, the Army's patience is fast running out.

The Kashmiri muslim is living on borrowed time now. He will either need to shape up. Or he will be washed away in a storm from mainland India.

GB was always muslim.

Tibet's total population is 3 million, and a lot of fallow land with area of 1.2 million Square Km.

while

J&K has population of 10 million out of which 6.8 million are muslim.Of these 5.3 million are in Kashmir, that too in an area of 101,338 Square Kilometer. For reducing Muslims to a minority in Kashmir, Government has to forcibly evict Kashmiris.

As i have stated earlier; If government is forcibly evicting Kasmhmiris and inviting both terrorism and international ire, why don't go whole hog and expel muslims altogerther from valley? Why do things in half arsed manner?

 

[doppelganger]

GB was always muslim.

Tibet's total population is 3 million, and a lot of fallow land with area of 1.2 million Square Km.

while

J&K has population of 10 million out of which 6.8 million are muslim.Of these 5.3 million are in Kashmir, that too in an area of 101,338 Square Kilometer. For reducing Muslims to a minority in Kashmir, Government has to forcibly evict Kashmiris.

As i have stated earlier; If government is forcibly evicting Kasmhmiris and inviting both terrorism and international ire, why don't go whole hog and expel muslims altogerther from valley? Why do things in half arsed manner?

Demographics is not only about muslim and hindu, but about native and import. Again, it is ridiculously easy for a state, because it controls both the issuing as well as the checking authorities when it comes to domicile.

The Kashmiri muslims are never going to be evicted by force. They are going to be given a choice they cannot refuse. Either assimilate, or get marginalized. Economics will be a lot more powerful than the gun or the bomb.

Always looked at against the backdrop of the state also holding the bigger gun and bomb as well. The rock and a really hard place.

You are talking about 7-10 million mainland Hindus, and a hundred thousand square kilometers of real estate. You get the idea .....

 

[midnightmasala]

I alluded to this sometime back. My view is similar to Pakistan.. I care only about the land.
I don't care about the kashmiri muslims. First start off removing subsidies where the process in the valley are one-fourth of that in Jammu. Then remove asfpa. Then we can easily do false flag decimation of the foreign invading religious lot. There should be an exodus into P0K.
God is on our side. Not on the side of terorists.

Demographics is not only about muslim and hindu, but about native and import. Again, it is ridiculously easy for a state, because it controls both the issuing as well as the checking authorities when it comes to domicile.

The Kashmiri muslims are never going to be evicted by force. They are going to be given a choice they cannot refuse. Either assimilate, or get marginalized. Economics will be a lot more powerful than the gun or the bomb.

Always looked at against the backdrop of the state also holding the bigger gun and bomb as well. The rock and a really hard place.

It has to be a mix of both. Just like they evicted KP's we need to do the same.

 

[About.to.be.banned]

Demographics is not only about muslim and hindu, but about native and import. Again, it is ridiculously easy for a state, because it controls both the issuing as well as the checking authorities when it comes to domicile.

The Kashmiri muslims are never going to be evicted by force. They are going to be given a choice they cannot refuse. Either assimilate, or get marginalized. Economics will be a lot more powerful than the gun or the bomb.

Always looked at against the backdrop of the state also holding the bigger gun and bomb as well. The rock and a really hard place.

How do you ensure that against 97.7% majority?

 

[doppelganger]

There should be an exodus into P0K.

It has to be a mix of both. Just like they evicted KP's we need to do the same.

As I said. A rock and a very hard place.

How do you ensure that against 97.7% majority?

Economics. Commerce. Government sanctioned development. Free trade. And complete removal of all restrictions of land ownership.

Let the Gandhi talk. Without chains. See the greed devour a region where generations have grown up on state dole and forgotten how to work.

 

[midnightmasala]

As I said. A rock and a very hard place.



Economics. Commerce. Government sanctioned development. Free trade. And complete removal of all restrictions of land ownership.

Let the Gandhi talk. Without chains. See the greed devour a region where generations have grown up on state dole and forgotten how to work.

Kashmiri majority is the biggest scum

 

[About.to.be.banned]

Economics. Commerce. Government sanctioned development. Free trade. And complete removal of all restrictions of land ownership.

Yes, But if Muslims are 97.7% of the population, all these Benefits would go to Muslims.

 

[doppelganger]

Yes, But if Muslims are 97.7% of the population, all these Benefits would go to Muslims.

Do you know what happens to an owner of ancestral property when he sells to a builder?

Or what does the owner of a flat do when his property has peaked?

He sells and moves out.

Let Indian commerce have 10 years in Kashmir. And see the change.

 

[ashok mourya]

In 2003, the percentage of Muslims in the Kashmir Valley was 95%[3] and those of Hindus 4%; the same year, in Jammu, the percentage of Hindus was 66% and those of Muslims 30% only.20% kasmir muslims are gujjars who are demanding separate gujaristan state out of j nk as there linguistic minority speaking Gujari not koshur. So after removing in article 370 we have to divide the states to 4 small states (divide n rule) and develope rest 3 states with in indian constitution.The very small kasmir state of koshur language may be retained under article 370.

 

[wolfschanzze]

Dude,

Once upon a time I was a proponent of scrapping of Article 370 and reducing muslims to minority in J&K, but after giving it a serious thought, I am ambivalent about it.

Let's be clear about one thing here, only reason we want removal of Article370 is to reduce muslim population of J&K to minority. On paper it would look to be a great idea; but if you look at it much more depth, you will realise that it is very difficult to be achieve, even after removal of Art370.

See, Muslim population of J&K is close to 6.8 million, while Hindu population is close to 3 million; Sikh population is 206000, and Buddhist population is 138,000. That is 6.8 million muslims against 3.34 million Kuffars.

In valley, Muslim population is 5.3 million, Hindu population is 101,000 ,Sikh population is 48,000. In valley it is 5.3 million vs 150,000. Apart from this close to 300,000 Pandits have been displaced making it 5.3 million vs 150,000.

For reducing muslims to a minority in valley, we have to settle 4million Kuffars in valley in very short period of time. This could not be done without GoI actively encouraging immigration by providing jobs and housing. For this it has to expel muslims from their properties (pretty much like Israel).

My point is that if goverment ,in order to ensure that Art 370 to be effective, has to become a ruthless Hindu government; Why do it in a half-arsed manner? Either do not disturb status-quo, or go full Isabella ferdinand on muslim's arse. Either GoI should go whole hog and convert Kashmir at Gunpoint or expel muslims to Pakistan, or simply shut up and enjoy status-quo, while silently chipping away at Art 370. Muzzies do not have any leader after Geelani, who would die in few months.I do not think that benefits of removing Art 370 justify the trouble we would have to court.

@SarthakGanguly what are your views on this matter.

@Soumitra

Anything can be done, Do you not see China and Israel doing it, yes GOI has to do it at some point of the time as that area is near our sensitive border and we cannot neglect the rot in our house for long as it will come back to bite us.Just remove the Art370 and see how many migrate there.
GOI should relocate Retired military personnel there with families and they should be given the right to bear arms.Just like the settlers in Israel,then see the magic.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

@SarthakGanguly what are your views on this matter.

After he dies, he should be cremated per Hindu customs with hom and yagna - Vedic mantras included. That should suffice.

 

[Soumitra]

Dude,

Once upon a time I was a proponent of scrapping of Article 370 and reducing muslims to minority in J&K, but after giving it a serious thought, I am ambivalent about it.

Let's be clear about one thing here, only reason we want removal of Article370 is to reduce muslim population of J&K to minority. On paper it would look to be a great idea; but if you look at it much more depth, you will realise that it is very difficult to be achieve, even after removal of Art370.

See, Muslim population of J&K is close to 6.8 million, while Hindu population is close to 3 million; Sikh population is 206000, and Buddhist population is 138,000. That is 6.8 million muslims against 3.34 million Kuffars.

In valley, Muslim population is 5.3 million, Hindu population is 101,000 ,Sikh population is 48,000. In valley it is 5.3 million vs 150,000. Apart from this close to 300,000 Pandits have been displaced making it 5.3 million vs 150,000.

For reducing muslims to a minority in valley, we have to settle 4million Kuffars in valley in very short period of time. This could not be done without GoI actively encouraging immigration by providing jobs and housing. For this it has to expel muslims from their properties (pretty much like Israel).

My point is that if goverment ,in order to ensure that Art 370 to be effective, has to become a ruthless Hindu government; Why do it in a half-arsed manner? Either do not disturb status-quo, or go full Isabella ferdinand on muslim's arse. Either GoI should go whole hog and convert Kashmir at Gunpoint or expel muslims to Pakistan, or simply shut up and enjoy status-quo, while silently chipping away at Art 370. Muzzies do not have any leader after Geelani, who would die in few months.I do not think that benefits of removing Art 370 justify the trouble we would have to court.

@SarthakGanguly what are your views on this matter.

@Soumitra

I dont believe the only reason to scrap the Article 370 is to reduce the muslim population. Yes that will be a side effect of the same with the infulx of mainlanders in the region but it has lot of postive points like economic development, reduction in militancy etc as pointed by me in the OP. Apart from this there is a nationalist sentiment also.

The reason "secular" parties in mainland are against removal of Article 370 is because they fear their muslim votebank will desert them Muslim Majority demographics changes in the valley.

The reason the valley based parties are against the removal of Article 370 is because they are in bed with the seperatists like geelani. they fear their power will be reduced if the power of seperatists is reduced as a result of the kashmiri youth getting jobs and they swapping the gun for the laptop

BJP does not have Muslim votebank and nor are they supported by the seperatists. They are hard core nationalists so they want its removal.

I want to ask those who are opposing the removal of the Article please tell me the good points about the same. How will it benefit the Kashmiris and the rest of the country. Do you have any counter to the points I made in the OP?

 

[Bagha]

Two things should be done,
1.Divide the state into 3 parts
2.Remove the clause that others can't buy Kashmir land(this is discriminatory) .

 

[srshkmr]

Thanks For Inviting me here .

I Voted Yes.

Advantages :
1.Rapid Development .
2.More Education and Eradicating Poverty which means less Radicals .
3.More People opting towards open Society it is 21st century.

Disadvantages :
1. Corporate's Destroying Serenic Natural Beauty of Kashmir . ( I doubt that this would happen in a large scale)

 

[IND151]

Article 370 need to go step by step ..Remove it from laddak and jammu ..There will be development as well as new influx of people ..Situation will change for better ..If you know how democracy works it will open a lot of options ...

I dont think in Ladakh there will be oppostion for removal of Artcle 370.

It should be removed but first the BJP government needs to put in 5 years of serious investment and development into this state, show the people of Kashmir they are much better off in the mainstream than as they are. The removal of 370 will allow massive investment in Kashmir from the rest of India and in 5 years time most Kashmiris will be begging for it to be removed themselves.

The only way this Kashmir issue will be resolved (in Kashmir, forget about Pakistan) is through economically developing this state.

I agree...........................