Army Chief Visits HIT

[iLION12345_1]

I will try to find an image, they are hard to come by unless operated in the open in proving grounds. Well the NATO 125mm reference may just be a mistake from some source.

Many Thanks for the details - they do make sense.

Upon further searching it seems there is no second version of the Durjoy, he’s either mistaking BDs VT-1s For Second versions of Durjoy or he’s talking about Type 69-IIG (which is basically an AZ/Durjoy style upgrade for Type 69 tanks)
still, if you find a picture, do show me.

Another thing to correct about that Quora article would be that Al-Zarrar uses a western FCS and GCS
(THETIS from SAGEM of France) and not a Chinese one, the Durjoy uses a Chinese FCS, though I can’t say for certain which one would be better or worst, they have similar optics; 2nd generation thermals for gunner (the French thermal itself may however be better than the Chinese one)

The Type 59G BD and AZ are nearly identical in many fields (which makes sense considering their origins)
The only difference is that the Western parts in AZ are replaced with equivalent Chinese parts in the Durjoy.

The Durjoy has significantly better ERA coverage, especially the later ones, however it uses Chinese FY2 while AZ uses Pakistani AORAK (the latter supposedly being the better ERA).

The mobility would be about the same given they have the same powertrains.

The FCS/GCS systems as I discussed above are different but probably comparable in performance, AZ has the advantage of having better ammo (PA still uses the 125-I and Naiza DU both with AZ)
Otherwise firepower is the same, Durjoy should be able to fire newer ammo (like 125-II APFSDS) too, but I can’t say for certain if BD has Bought it.

All in all, very comparable tanks, the difference comes down to what the armies have added or removed from them (ERA, Ammo etc)

 

[iLION12345_1]

That is I believe based on M109 chassis?

I'd be interested in the turret specs and detail if/when available.

Likely Talha (M113) chassis with a more powerful engine and all around armor increase.

I wonder if bar (grille) armor around the turret (like that used nowadays by Abrams tanks and some MRAPS) could have prevented the projectile from penetrating (would have prematurely detonated outside these welded turret plate covers).

Grille armor (known as Slat armor) works well against HEAT type projectiles, Almost everyone uses It, it also doubles as storage in many MBTs like Al-Khalid, Abrams and Even AZ/Durjoy, however it’s usually only found on the sides and rear of the turret for tanks, especially when they want to leave the front open to mount ERA as in AZ.

In that particular case I believe the tank was penetrated by a recoilless rifle, but given all the damage, I can’t say for certain, it does seem to be exploding outwards, so it could also have been an ammo cook-off near the rear, there doesn’t seem to be any clear penetration up front either. Regardless, there’s lots of possibilities, doesn’t really matter now xD

 

[Inception-06]

Likely Talha (M113) chassis with a more powerful engine and all around armor increase.


Grille armor (known as Slat armor) works well against HEAT type projectiles, Almost everyone uses It, it also doubles as storage in many MBTs like Al-Khalid, Abrams and Even AZ/Durjoy, however it’s usually only found on the sides and rear of the turret for tanks, especially when they want to leave the front open to mount ERA as in AZ.

In that particular case I believe the tank was penetrated by a recoilless rifle, but given all the damage, I can’t say for certain, it does seem to be exploding outwards, so it could also have been an ammo cook-off near the rear, there doesn’t seem to be any clear penetration up front either. Regardless, there’s lots of possibilities, doesn’t really matter now xD

You haven’t commented the armour upgrade for the pick up truck.

 

[iLION12345_1]

You haven’t commented the armour upgrade for the pick up truck.

View attachment 792633

They seem to be in army paint, but I recall a contract like this being put forward by FC, so these could be going to either force, its not going to make the vehicle safe from IEDs, but it’s certainly a start.

the issue I have is that apart from the certain regions which are noticeably armored, the rest of the steel seems very thin, To stop the a bullet fired from an average rifle in the hands of a terrorist (AK) they’d need level 3 equivalent plates, thats a quarter inch thick hardened steel. Given how this steel has a bend in it and seems much thinner on most areas of the side panels, I doubt it’s actually bulletproof (May just be due to the angle of the photo).

it would be a lot more useful if the entire thing was armored, maybe the logic behind this is that it’ll protect where the head and neck go and the parts below that are covered by the soldiers own body armor, but that’s such a stupid thing to skimp on given how many soldiers we’ve been losing due to these unarmored vehicles.

I hope they know what they’re doing with this and aren’t playing with the lives of Jawans again. It also annoys me because HIT actually does offer conversions for commercial vehicles like Defenders, Hiluxs and other trucks to make them fully bulletproof and grenade resistant, and those are actually done well. The army (or in this case the MOI) could easily buy a few to deploy in the hot areas.

 

[Invictus01]

You haven’t commented the armour upgrade for the pick up truck.

View attachment 792633

What we need is a V shaped Hull to protect these tin cans against IEDs
Not these side armor plates
I remember back when operation almizan started
Local infantry units in Peshawar would improvise by taking two sheets of metal & filling the gap between these 2 with concrete
Some of it was even done by the Corp EME unit yet it didn't prevent any casualties considering the convoys would rarely come under heavy fire
Most of the casualties suffered where due to IEDs
10 years in we still haven't chalked out a solid plan to protect our troops from these IEDs
Infact soldiers would prefer rolling out in 2.5tons considering it offered far better protection

 

[Inception-06]

They seem to be in army paint, but I recall a contract like this being put forward by FC, so these could be going to either force, its not going to make the vehicle safe from IEDs, but it’s certainly a start.

the issue I have is that apart from the certain regions which are noticeably armored, the rest of the steel seems very thin, To stop the a bullet fired from an average rifle in the hands of a terrorist (AK) they’d need level 3 equivalent plates, thats a quarter inch thick hardened steel. Given how this steel has a bend in it and seems much thinner on most areas of the side panels, I doubt it’s actually bulletproof (May just be due to the angle of the photo).

it would be a lot more useful if the entire thing was armored, maybe the logic behind this is that it’ll protect where the head and neck go and the parts below that are covered by the soldiers own body armor, but that’s such a stupid thing to skimp on given how many soldiers we’ve been losing due to these unarmored vehicles.

I hope they know what they’re doing with this and aren’t playing with the lives of Jawans again. It also annoys me because HIT actually does offer conversions for commercial vehicles like Defenders, Hiluxs and other trucks to make them fully bulletproof and grenade resistant, and those are actually done well. The army (or in this case the MOI) could easily buy a few to deploy in the hot areas.

On the loading place, can be build up a V-shaped armoured hull compartment.

 

[Phantom.]

Likely Talha (M113) chassis with a more powerful engine and all around armor increase.


Grille armor (known as Slat armor) works well against HEAT type projectiles, Almost everyone uses It, it also doubles as storage in many MBTs like Al-Khalid, Abrams and Even AZ/Durjoy, however it’s usually only found on the sides and rear of the turret for tanks, especially when they want to leave the front open to mount ERA as in AZ.

In that particular case I believe the tank was penetrated by a recoilless rifle, but given all the damage, I can’t say for certain, it does seem to be exploding outwards, so it could also have been an ammo cook-off near the rear, there doesn’t seem to be any clear penetration up front either. Regardless, there’s lots of possibilities, doesn’t really matter now xD

In this picture of AZ it has been modified with Slat armor around the turret probably for urban combat to protect it from HEAT rounds.Most likely after the incident?

 

[iLION12345_1]

In this picture of AZ it has been modified with Slat armor around the turret probably for urban combat to protect it from HEAT rounds.Most likely after the incident?
View attachment 792828

I’m not sure when these AZs appeared but they were definitely used in combat in 2009, there were also plenty of APCs with all around slat armor.

 

[farooqbhai007]

On the loading place, can be build up a V-shaped armoured hull compartment.View attachment 792750

Alot of other quite good options by the same company that offers this as well ( South african RMA ) which i like alot ,

( this post below is separate and not directed at you inception06 )
Any how people forgot that its not the duty of HIT to make a new Light armored vehicle from scratch , HIT is a factory that mass produces equipment not a R&D facility for Counter insurgency vehicles , a private company makes a design , its gets tested by HIT , if it fits the standards it gets mass produced at HIT , that is it ,
but like people on this forum keep doing their " wHy do HiT uNclEs noT mAkE neW MrAp "

Interceptor got offered by cavalier group , was tested by HIT and entered mass production , same with STREIT cougar , Mohafiz 2 and Mohafiz 3 , all were designs offered by private companies that HIT mass produced ,

 

[iLION12345_1]

Alot of other quite good options by the same company that offers this as well ( South african RMA ) which i like alot ,

( this post below is separate and not directed at you inception06 )
Any how people forgot that its not the duty of HIT to make a new Light armored vehicle from scratch , HIT is a factory that mass produces equipment not a R&D facility for Counter insurgency vehicles , a private company makes a design , its gets tested by HIT , if it fits the standards it gets mass produced at HIT , that is it ,
but like people on this forum keep doing their " wHy do HiT uNclEs noT mAkE neW MrAp "

Interceptor got offered by cavalier group , was tested by HIT and entered mass production , same with STREIT cougar , Mohafiz 2 and Mohafiz 3 , all were designs offered by private companies that HIT mass produced ,

Bingo, HIT doesn’t have a yearly R&D budget at all, they aren’t payed to do this, they’re only payed to produce what a customer orders them to produce, with their prime customer being the Pakistan army.

Once upon a time (early 2000s and before) HIT had an R&D budget and was working on several interesting projects, that was cut due to the war on terror and has never returned. If we want HIT to make new things and innovate, we need to pay them to do so, if we don’t pay them to do so, we cannot fault them for not doing it. People keep complaining about HIT not doing something that they aren’t payed or asked to do. There’s a lot of old-minded people there for sure, but there’s also plenty of talent that has ideas and wants to put them forward, but unfortunately things like that aren’t encouraged in our country, we don’t let people put their developments and ideas into practice.

Maybe an engineer working at HIT has a brilliant idea for a Low-Cost MRAP that can be locally produced, but will he ever be able to bring it to fruition? Unfortunately not.

 

[Super Falcon]

Plz send some to marines

 

[iLION12345_1]

So it seems the Type 85UG doesn’t just have turret armor upgrades as I previously pointed out, but it also may have hull armor upgrades, these two were possibly skipped in the first 1-2 batches of upgraded tanks, but now it seems they’ve added them too. This really is a comprehensive upgrade. Now I wonder if they will install ERA on it.