‘Admitting you are a secularist can get you killed in Pakistan’

[Sugarcane]

 

[Patriots]

@JonAsad Verify the Quran? Dude you wanna verify the Quran is a different topic...

The Hadith is what proves the Quran to be the Quran ... We didn’t see the Quran being revealed or Hazrat Jibrael (AS) bringing down revelation. The Rasoolullah (Sallah O Alaihi Wa Alaihe Wa Sallam) said to us that this is the Quran … And we accepted it ... This very utterance is Hadith ... The refuters of Hadith cannot prove the Quran to be the words of Allah Subhan Wa Ta'ala without the Hadith ..

It is the Hadith that establishes the Surahs … Verses … And contents of the Holy Quran ... How else did we come to know of the amount of Surahs … Or verses revealed by Allah Subhan Wa Ta'ala..???? Refutors of the Hadith can never establish these things ..

Without the Hadith … We couldn’t practice upon the Holy Quran ... In several places … Allah Subhan Wa Ta'ala states: “Perform Salaah and give Zakaat.” Refuters of the Hadith cannot prove from the Holy Quran … The method of Salaah and its amount of rakaats … Or the amount of Zakaah … And the manner of dispensing it ... Likewise … All other commands of the Quran are comprehensively understood by the Hadith ... It is as if the Hadith is the annotation of Quran ..

Those who reject the necessity of the Hadith should eat dogs and donkey meat ... Similarly … the Quran has classified only three or four animals as Haraam (e.g. swine, carrion, etc) ... Prohibition of other animals comes and is established from the Hadith.

The relation between the Quran and Hadith … Or the Sunnah … And Fardh (compulsory acts) … Is similar to how water is necessary in the preparation of food ... Without water… Food cannot be prepared or eaten ... Likewise … Quranic commands cannot be fulfilled or remain without the explanation of the Holy Prophet (Sallah O Alaihe Wa Alaihi Wa Sallam) ... Salaah is compulsory … Reciting Subhanallah … At-Tahiyaat … Durood Ibrahimi … And making Salaam are all Sunnats ... The ‘People of the Quran’ should demonstrate a Salaah which is solely from the Quran and is not assisted by the Hadith ..

The Holy Quran can both grant salvation and lead astray:

Verily, Allâh is not ashamed to set forth a parable even of a mosquito or so much more when it is bigger (or less when it is smaller) than it. And as for those who believe, they know that it is the Truth from their Lord, but as for those who disbelieve, they say: "What did Allâh intend by this parable?" By it He misleads many, and many He guides thereby. And He misleads thereby only those who are Al-Fâsiqûn (the rebellious, disobedient to Allâh). (Al-Baqara : 26)

However, to remain with the truthful can only be a means of salvation,

O you who believe! Be afraid of Allâh, and be with those who are true (in words and deeds). (Al-Tawba : 119)

Guide us to the Straight Way. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians). (Al-Fatiha: 6 – 7)

Allâh sends His Salât (Graces, Honours, Blessings, Mercy) on the Prophet (Muhammad SAW) and also His angels (ask Allâh to bless and forgive him). O you who believe! Send your Salât[] on (ask Allâh to bless) him (Muhammad SAW), and (you should) greet (salute) him with the Islâmic way of greeting (salutation i.e. As¬Salâmu 'Alaikum). (Al-Ahzab: 56)

In above verse Allah has ordered to believers to sending Durood-o-Salam upon Rasoolullah (Sallah O Alaihi Wa Alaihe Wa Sallam) … Companions asked to Rasoolullah (Sallah O Alaihi Wa Alaihe Wa Sallam) Ya Rasoolullah how to sending Durood upon you ? Then Rasoolullah (Sallah O Alaihi Wa Alaihe Wa Sallam) taught to them words of Durood ..

Accepting Hadith and Shareeah (Islamic Jurisprudence) is the path of the Aalims, Saints and virtuous persons. So, this is the path of salvation. Refuting the Hadith is contrary to their path and is therefore deviation.

I do request to my brothers & sisters who refute to Ahadith … Kindly don’t reject Hadith … Because outcome of refuting Hadith would be ultimately refuting the Quran … And refuting the Quran is kufr ..

 

[Patriots]

EDIT: Highlighted Part - Dude you are putting serious allegations, Kindly refrain to post these kind of things when you have no idea what you are talking about.

Bhai please use common sense ... Typo mistake bhi tau ho sakti hai ..

 

[Sugarcane]

Bhai please use common sense ... Typo mistake bhi tau ho sakti hai ..

Use your common sense and read complete sentence and next sentence before saying it typo.

 

[Patriots]

Tbh the idea of individuals thinking to be capable enough to dispute or disregard any hadith is not new-

We have burger mullah is every corner of Pakistan some resenting the hadiths on communal harmony- some on inter religious harmony- each in his own understanding bringing new set of rules to follow- thus creating the anarchy Pakistan is in-

Some sunnis dont accept some hadiths and kill shia every day and vice versa-
Some dont accept hadith on harmony with other religons and they are hell bent on killing Kafirs-

Given you hv resources or will or blind followers you will do the same thing- No difference at all-
thats why ordinary people must follow what the qualify Imams have deemed right for them or accepted as truth with their lives research-

And their forefather is ghulam ahmed pervaiz

 

[Patriots]

@LoveIcon

It was unclear if the blast targeted members of a particular sect as the dead included both Sunnis and Shias.

However, DPO Saeed said that the suicide attack “targeted Shias but Sunni Muslims also fell victim since their mosque and some shops were also very close to the site,” said Saeed.

Suicide blast outside Hangu mosque claims 22 lives | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

Its the statement of the DPO.

I should have been more detailed.

Paid killers are doing such things ... A Muslim is not related to this ..

But when you read some books and understand something you do not become a doctor!

Say you read some books on nutrition, some on genetics, some on diseases unless you did exam for this in an institute you do not become a doctor!

Waysay har haqeem yahin kehta hai...Yeh poori 2 dafa pani mein subha shaam layna payt dard ghaib ho jai ga! Is he a doctor?

اس کا بھی یہی مطلب ہے دین سمجھنے کے لیے بھی پڑھنا پڑتا ہے بی بی

 

[Patriots]

issuing Fatwa of killing

Kindly show one fatwa which you mentioned

 

[dronedevta]

I don't trust any hadith. If hadith were to be a criteria, then it would be mentioned by Allah in the Quran. He is the all knowing.

Quran and only Quran should be the guidelines for all Muslims.

Not possible , This is my arguement :-

1.Quran itself says to follow prophet

He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah: But if any turn away, We have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds).

Qur'an 4:80

2.Without hadith Qur'an would be just a book of contradictions as we don't know the abrogation and context of the verses.

3. Proof of Existence of prophet muhammad w/o sunna is almost negligible .

4. Many chapters would lead into confusion about personality referred in the ayas Like Abu Lahab.

5. Five Pillars are not described or defined in the Qur'an in any way.

 

[Patriots]

علامہ اقبال بھی احادیث کو مانتے تھے

 

[KingMamba]

Here is the verse of Qur^an regarding punishment of thief


The word use here is "قۡطَعُ" and "chop off" are not the only meaning of this word - for example same word use in following verse



Now - If we must take the meaning of "قۡطَعُ" only as "chop off" then the above verse doesn't make sense. So, the verse [5:38] can also be translated as cutting/marking (Not chopping) the hand as punishment - which make more sense. There are lot of mathematical miracle in Quran and i don't think this is coincidence that if you add verse number in chapter no of both places where cutting hand is mentioned is equal 5+38=12+31=43. Plus Quran claims that it's for all times than chopping of hand in this century doesn't make sense. What's you opinion?

In the first verse where it describes punishment it says cut but has a seperate word for off. In the second verse it says cut as in they cut themselves. The cutting off of the hand is supposed to serve as a deterrent for theft. In that if the community saw one man lost his hands they all would take heed before committing the same crime. Also there are a lot of conditions that must be met before one is declared a theif. I tried to find a source I though could explain it best.

The ruling of theft in Islam - Islam web - English

In this century such a punishment is frowned upon because of human rights groups who make every major punishment look like it is a bad idea. The same human rights groups also want to completely abolish executions for murderers and instead want them to live out their lives in jail eating food off of tax payer money. Do you agree with that?? I know many people who do not. You have to take into consideration that the purpose of such a law was not that everyone's hands start getting cut off. The whole point was the premise that people would be deterred from stealing after the first theif had his/hers hand cut off. I know I would be less likely to try and steal if I witnessed that punishment, wouldn't you??

Also yaar you have to take into account if the law actually worked or not, kindly check the stats on robbery during the caliphate times. I can bet you they were really low. Secondly it may seem barbaric but sometimes harsh penalties need to dished out the evil doers to protect the many from the few who would do them harm. Check out the recent India rape cases for example, how even the most anti-Muslim posters on this forum were asking for a punishment dished out based on sharia law. That is because they were mad and they felt a punishment that would serve as a future deterrent needed to be set as a precedent.

Not possible , This is my arguement :-

1.Quran itself says to follow prophet

Qur'an 4:80

2.Without hadith Qur'an would be just a book of contradictions as we don't know the abrogation and context of the verses.

3. Proof of Existence of prophet muhammad w/o sunna is almost negligible .

4. Many chapters would lead into confusion about personality referred in the ayas Like Abu Lahab.

5. Five Pillars are not described or defined in the Qur'an in any way.

You are Muslim??

 

[Sugarcane]

Gallaat. In the Quran it says to follow Prophet Muhammad PBUH example many times. That is what essentially Hadith is- the life and sayings of Hazrat Muhammad PBUH. Now the question is are all hadith accurate?? Too judge if an hadith is accurate or not is simple, first check the source of the Hadith many learned scholars of Islam have already done this for us over the years (that is why hadiths are classified either sahih or not etc), second even though the source may be a trustful one they may have misheard or misunderstood what our Prophet meant when he spoke or the action he took. That is why Hadith should then be tested against the Quran. In the Quran it says drinking is haram so if a hadith comes out from reliable sources where they say they heard our Prophet Muhammad PBUH say in some instances it is ok than automatically as a Muslim we must assume that Hadith cannot possibly be correct.

If any Hadiths contradict the Quran they are GALLAAT. This is not to say Hadiths do contradict the Quran, this is just establishing a criteria on how to judge the authenticity of a Hadith.

But dude - people says that forget Qur^an, first believe that Hadith's are ultimate truth and denial of any Hadith is denial of Qur^an and Prophet. And no need to recheck it as it's already checked.

 

[KingMamba]

But dude - people says that forget Qur^an, first believe that Hadith's are ultimate truth and denial of any Hadith is denial of Qur^an and Prophet. And no need to recheck it as it's already checked.

They are clowns if they say that, Quran is supreme everything else comes after one has read the Quran.

 

[dronedevta]

@KingMamba93

You are Muslim??

 

[KingMamba]

@LoveIcon yaara for some reason the website does not let me link a couple of the sources I was trying to anyway, go to the website www.corpus.quran.com and after you put in both verse numbers you can compare the two and see the difference.

NVM idk y it says domain not found, just google quran verse 5 38 exactly the way I just wrote and you should see the link, do the same for the other one.

@KingMamba93

Oh ok please refrain from getting involved than some others like Zarvan will go ballistic. I agree with you though except for the existence of Prophet Muhammad PBUH, I mean we have his body and tomb in KSA nobody really doubts he existed.

 

[Patriots]

In the Name of Allah, The Most Beneficent, The Most Merciful.

Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur'ân)
and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).
(Qur'an 15:9)

The above ayat (verse) is obviously fulfilled in the undisputed purity of the Qur'anic text throughout the fourteen centuries since its revelation. However, what is sometimes forgotten is that the divine promise also includes, by necessity, the Sunnah of the Prophet Rasoolullah (Sallah O Alaihi Wa Alaihe Wa Sallam). The Sunnah is the practical example of the implementation of the Qur'anic guidance, the wisdom taught to the Prophet Rasoolullah (Sallah O Alaihi Wa Alaihe Wa Sallam) along with the scripture, and neither the Qur'an nor the Sunnah can be understood correctly without the other.

Allaah, subhana watala, says in His Book (An-Nûr 24:54):
Say: "Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, but if you turn away, he (Messenger Muhammad saaws) is only responsible for the duty placed on him (i.e. to convey Allah's Message) and you for that placed on you. If you obey him, you shall be on the right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to convey (the message) in a clear way (i.e. to preach in a plain way)."

Allah (SWT) preserved the Sunnah by enabling the companions and those after them to memorize, write down and pass on the statements of the Prophet , and the descriptions of his way, as well as to continue the blessings of practicing the Sunnah.
From al-Irbaad ibn Saariyah [radiy'Allaahu anhu] who said:
Allaah's Messenger (Sallah O Alaihi Wa Alaihe Wa Sallam) gave us an admonition which caused the eyes to shed tears and the hearts to fear, so we said, "O Messenger of Allaah, this is as if it were a farewell sermon, so with what do you counsel us?" So he said: "I have left you upon clear proof , its night is like its day, no one deviates from it except one who is destroyed, and whoever lives long from amongst you will see great controversy. So stick to what you know from my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the orthodox, rightly-guided caliphs - cling to that with your molar teeth, and stick to obedience even if it is to an Abyssinian slave, since the believer is like a submissive camel, wherever he is led, he follows" [Ahmad (4/126), Ibn Maajah (no. 43), al-Haakim (1/96) and others - Hasan]

Later, as the purity of the knowledge of the Sunnah became a concern, Allah (SWT) caused the Muslim Ummah to produce individuals with exceptional memory skills and analytical expertise, who travelled tirelessly to collect thousands of narrations and distinguish the true words of prophetic wisdom from those corrupted by weak memories, from forgeries by unscrupulous liars, and from the statements of the large number of Ulama (scholars), the companions and those who followed their way. All of this was achieved through precise attention to the words narrated, and detailed familiarity with the biographies of the thousands of reporters of Hadith.

The methodology of the expert scholars of Hadith in assessing the narrations and sorting out the genuine from the mistaken and fabricated, for ms the subject matter of the science of Hadith. Below is a brief discussion of the terminology and classifications of Hadith.
Components of Hadith
A Hadith is composed of three parts (see the figure below):

Matn (text), isnad (chain of reporters), and taraf (the part, or the beginning sentence, of the text which refers to the sayings, actions or characteristics of the Prophet (PBUH), or his concurrence with others action). The authenticity of the Hadith depends on the reliability of its reporters, and the linkage among them.

Classifications of Hadith
A number of classifications of Hadith have been made. Five of these classifications are shown in the figure [below], and are briefly described subsequently.

1. According to the reference to a particular authority
Four types of Hadith can be identified.
• Qudsi - Divine; a revelation from Allah (SWT); relayed with the words of the Prophet (PBUH).
• Marfu - elevated; a narration from the Prophet (PBUH), e.g. I heard the Prophet (PBUH) saying ...
• Mauquf- stopped: a narration from a companion only, e.g., we were commanded to ...
• Maqtu' - severed: a narration from a successor.

2. According to the links of Isnad - interrupted or uninterrupted
Six categories can be identified.
a. Musnad - supported: a Hadith which is reported by a traditionalist, based on what he learned from his teacher at a time of life suitable for learning; similarly - in turn - for each teacher until the isnad reaches a well known companion, who in turn, reports from the Prophet (PBUH).
b. Mutassil - continuous: a Hadith with an uninterrupted isnad which goes back only to a companion or successor.
c. Mursal - hurried: if the link between the successor and the Prophet (PBUH) is missing, e.g. when a successor says "The Prophet said...".
d. Munqati - broken: is a Hadith whose link anywhere before the successor (i.e., closer to the traditionalist recording the Hadith) is missing.
e. Mu'adal - perplexing: is a Hadith whose reporter omits two or more consecutive reporters in the isnad.
f. Mu'allaq - hanging: is a Hadith whose reporter omits the whole isnad and quotes the Prophet (PBUH) directly (i.e., the link is missing at the beginning).

3. According to the number of reporters involved in each stage of Isnad
Five categories of Hadith can be identified:
a. Mutawatir - Consecutive: is a Hadith which is reported by such a large number of people that they cannot be expected to agree upon a lie, all of them together.
b. Ahad - isolated: is a Hadith which is narrated by people whose number does not reach that of the mutawatir.
It is further classified into:
c. Mash'hur - famous: Hadith reported by more than two reporters.
d. Aziz - rare, strong: at any stage in the isnad, only two reporters are found to narrate the Hadith.
e. Gharib - strange: At some stage of the Isnad, only one reporter is found relating it.

4. According to the nature of the text and isnad
a. Munkar - denounced: is a Hadith which is reported by a weak narrator, and whose narration goes against another authentic Hadith.
b. Mudraj - interpolated: an addition by a reporter to the text of the Hadith being narrated.

5. According to the reliability and memory of the reporters
This provides the final verdict on a Hadith - four categories can be identified:
a. Sahih - sound. Imam Al-shafi'i states the following requiremetts for a Hadith, which is notmutawatir, to be acceptable "each reporter should be trustworthy in his religion; he should be known to be truthtul in his narrating, to understand what he narrates, to know how a different expression can alter the meaning, and to report the wording of the Hadith verbatim, not only its meaning".
b. Hasan - good: is the one where its source is known and its reporters are unambiguous.
c. Da'if - weak: a Hadith which fails to reach the status of hasan. Usually, the weakness is: a) one of discontinuity in the isnad, in which case the Hadith could be - according to the nature of the discontinuity - munqati (broken), mu'allaq (hanging), mu'dal (perplexing), or mursal(hurried), or b) one of the reporters having a disparaged character, such as due to his telling lies, excessive mistakes, opposition to the narration of more reliable sources, involvement in innovation, or ambiguity surrounding his person.
d. Maudu' - fabricated or forged: is a Hadith whose text goes against the established norms of the Prophet's sayings, or its reporters include a liar. Fabricated Hadith are also recognized by external evidence related to a discrepancy found in the dates or times of a particular incident.
________________________________________
Hadith - Reported by Ahmad, Abu Daawood, Ibn Maajah and at-Tirmidhee, who declared it hasan. Al-Albaanee declared it saheeh in Saheehul-Jaami’ (no.8186).
The Prophet said, “There will come a time when a man sitting upon his couch is told a hadeeth and he replies, ‘Between us and you is the Book of Allah, the Mighty and Majestic. What we find in it to be lawful, we take as lawful and what we find in it to be forbidden, we take as forbidden.’ Indeed, what the Messenger of Allah has forbidden is like what Allah has forbidden.”
Narration of Imam Maalik - Reported by Ibn ‘Abdul-Barr in Jaami’ Bayaan al-‘Ilm (2/91).
Imam Maalik (rahimahullaah) said, “Everyone after the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) will have his saying accepted or rejected, not so the Prophet .”
Narration of Imam Ahmaad - Reported in Tabaqaatul-Hanaabilah (2/15) and by Ibn battah in al-Ibanatul-Kubraa (1/97).
Imam Ahmaad (rahimahullaah) said, “Whoever rejects a hadeeth of Allah’s Messenger is on the brink of destruction.”