2001–02 India–Pakistan standoff

[ice_man]

I guess everyone is bored of trolling 1965,1971 wars and then throwing in a bit of KARGIL here and there.

Then trolling a bit more......and MORE........ and MORE.

So let's talk a bit about an ALMOST WAR that cost both nations alot in terms of Finance and nothing in terms of objectives.

So here goes what rest we can discuss:

2001–2002 India–Pakistan standoff
Indian Codename: Operation Parakram
Part of the Indo-Pakistani conflict

Date 13 December 2001 – 10 June 2002
Location Kashmir, Indo-Pakistan border


Indian Command was as follows:

Commanders and leaders

Atal Vajpayee
(Prime minister of India)
Kocheril Narayanan
(President of India)
Gen S. Padmanabhan
(Chief of Army Staff)
ACM S. Krishnaswamy
(Chief of Air Staff)
Adm Madhvendra Singh
(Chief of Naval Staff)

Gen Pervez Musharraf
(President of Pakistan)
Gen. Aziz Khan
(Chairman Joint Chiefs)
Gen. Yusaf Khan
ACMMushaf Ali Mir
(Chief of Air Staff)
AdmAbdul Aziz Mirza
(Chief of Naval Staff)
AdmS. Karimullah
(Commander Marines)

Would really like to know the indian and pakistani strategies and buildups.

Did India plan to defend Pathankot,Ambala and did Pakistan learn anything from the battle of Longewala.

 

[Sulman Badshah]

Some of the Times of India Articles


India suffered 1,874 casualties without fighting a war
Rajat Pandit, TNN | May 1, 2003, 03.55AM IST

NEW DELHI: The life of an Indian Army soldier comes cheap. The US-led coalition forces lost just around 150 personnel during the recent Iraq operations. In sharp contrast, and without going to war, almost 2,000 Indian Army soldiers were killed or wounded during the 10-month forward deployment along the Indo-Pak border last year.

"What else do you expect? We have to soldier on without even basic necessities like decent helmets, proper webbing or bullet-proof jackets. Many accidents during the mobilisation were due to the poor quality of mines and fuses," retorted an angry young Major.

Usually extremely tight-lipped about casualty figures, the defence ministry had to disclose them in the Rajya Sabha on Wednesday in response to a question.

"The number of Army personnel killed or wounded in Jammu and Kashmir and the western sector during the mobilisation, Operation Parakram, from December 19, 2001 to October 16, 2002, was 1,874," said Defence Minister George Fernandes.

This, by any benchmark, is a truly staggering figure for a 10-month period, even if the counter-insurgency operations in Jammu and Kashmir are taken into account.

In the initial phase of Operation Parakram itself, after the December 2001 Parliament attack, over 100 soldiers were killed and 250 injured during mine-laying operations. Vehicle accidents, artillery duels with Pakistan and other incidents led to many more casualties.

Relentless counter-insurgency operations in Jammu and Kashmir are also, of course, exacting a heavy toll on the soldiers, with over 1,000 being killed in terrorist activity in the last three years.

The government, however, continues to sleep. Battling extremely well-equipped terrorists, soldiers face a crippling shortage of bullet-proof jackets, night-vision devices, communication sets, sensors and other equipment which can make their gruelling jobs much easier.

Take bullet-proof jackets, for instance. Only 1.24 lakh jackets are available when 3.53 lakh jackets are required for troops operating in counter-insurgency duties and along the Line of Control.

"Sometimes, our jawans are reduced to swiping bullet-proof jackets and assault rifles from slain terrorists for personal use. The bullet-proof jackets provided to us are bulky and restrict mobility," said an officer, who has done stints in the Valley.
------------------------------------------------------

Op Parakram claimed 798 soldiers
TNN | Jul 31, 2003, 03.45PM IST

NEW DELHI: The Kargil conflict led to the death of 527 Indian soldiers while heroically taking back heights occupied by Pakistanis in 1999. Shockingly, without going to war, 798 soldiers have been killed during Operation Parakram.

"During Operation Parakram up to July 2003, a total number of 798 Army personnel suffered fatal casualties," said Defence Minister George Fernandes in Lok Sabha on Thursday.

It was in the aftermath of the terrorist attack on Parliament that Operation Parakram began in December 2001, with offensive and defensive formations of the Army being mobilised along the Indo-Pak border.

"The government later decided, in October 2002, to strategically redeploy the troops under Operation Parakram, with the objective to respond aggressively and decisively to any emergency on the International Border," said Fernandes.

"The expenditure incurred on mobilisation and present redeployment of troops under Operation Parakram can be assessed only after the redeployment is complete," he added.

In the initial phase of Operation Parakram itself, around 100 soldiers were killed and 250 injured during mine-laying operations. Vehicle accidents, artillery duels with Pakistan and other incidents led to many more casualties.

 

[Zarvan]

Since this stand off Indian Armed Forces have lost major trust in themselves. Loosing around 2000 soldiers without any major war only shows and exposes some seriously dangerous issues with Indian Armed Forces. Since than even after facing attack like Mumbai they have failed to do anything.
NOTE: I am not saying we did 26/11 but Indians blame it on us.

 

[third eye]

Feel Good week .. again & again !

 

[Max Pain]

Feel Good week .. again & again !

indeed,
but certainly feel bad week for ya.

 

[third eye]

indeed,
but certainly feel bad week for ya.

No, its laughter week for Indians

 

[ice_man]

Feel Good week .. again & again !

shall i throw in the 2008 stand off to make it a perfect week?

however, on a serious note you could contribute to this thread positively as in what was the outcome from it. NOT IN THE TROLLING SENSE but in the sense what lessons were learnt by the armies.

 

[Max Pain]

No, its laughter week for Indians

cool.
laughing at your loss is a good thing.

 

[third eye]

however, on a serious note you could contribute to this thread positively as in what was the outcome from it. NOT IN THE TROLLING SENSE but in the sense what lessons were learnt by the armies.

Thanks for the good suggestion

Would like to contribute in a thread where sane discussion takes place.

Request you to tag me if you come across one.

 

[vsdoc]

Thanks for the good suggestion

Would like to contribute in a thread where sane discussion takes place.

Request you to tag me if you come across one.

Do please tag me as well in return sir.

I am feeling a bit out of my depth here. Don't know where to post.

 

[I S I]

Tl;dr, India got humiliated by a 7 times smaller country.

 

[ice_man]

@vsdoc @third eye

sadly we three are an older lot on this forum and the standard of discussions have fallen in past year and a half alot. trolling was contained before now its everywhere in every thread . hardly do i find blain or penguin posting or any of the class of 2013 around.

 

[vsdoc]

@vsdoc @third eye

sadly we three are an older lot on this forum and the standard of discussions have fallen in past year and a half alot. trolling was contained before now its everywhere in every thread . hardly do i find blain or penguin posting or any of the class of 2013 around.

I find very few long-ish well thought out personal view posts.

I don't mind trolling. I actually enjoy it. But I do miss the class, intelligence, wit, and language skills.

Maybe I'm just being an old grumpy fart.

Nice bumping into you bro. You're the bohri guy with Gujarat family links right?

 

[ice_man]

I find very few long-ish well thought out personal view posts.

I don't mind trolling. I actually enjoy it. But I do miss the class, intelligence, wit, and language skills.

Maybe I'm just being an old grumpy fart.

Nice bumping into you bro. You're the bohri guy with Gujarat family links right?

Nope i guess you got me wrong i am from Karachi. i was away for a few months since the level initially dipped. returned hoping for things to have improved while i was gone.

However, you are right i do like to troll as well.... but not all the bloody time.

the intelligence and wit are long gone. even the informative threads are few and far apart. and tired of discussing 65 at least 65 million times over.

oh well i guess i will spend a bit more time away again probably a sabbatical this time.

 

[vsdoc]

Nope i guess you got me wrong i am from Karachi. i was away for a few months since the level initially dipped. returned hoping for things to have improved while i was gone.

Sorry buddy. Mea culpa.

There were a couple of Ice's from your side as I recall. @ice_man , @IceCold , @Icewolf ..... yeah probably got mixed up.

Probably icecold since he's 2007 batch. Icewolf is 2012, and I had returned after my first long ban then, so unlikely.