1971 war a RAW success?

[Maira La]

You didn't understand the first line. Where did I say India hates BD. I said they are "Indifferent". There are far more complex and critical things to be taken care of rather than wasting time on hating BD. So we just maintain diplomatic relations and professional exchanges.

Look the challenges India is facing, do you really think we spend considerable time about BD, we just don't want BD to be good ally of China and transit corridor. Also BD is new destination for investment for Indian companies.

You ask for too much. We need Chinese influence (and, someday, presence) in the subcontinent to maintain peace and stability.

 

[Ammyy]

You ask for too much. We need Chinese influence (and, someday, presence) in the subcontinent to maintain peace and stability.

China with peace ??? ask same thing to any country in SCS



With Chinese influence in this region you will get same with USA without any cost

 

[kalu_miah]

It's amazing how much anger you have for you to call me names. I NEVEr denied the atrocities done by Pak forces but I guess whenever a Bengali criticizes your country its as if it's lies. Hamidur Rahman did report the truth but he died before the war was over in northwest Bengal around Sylhet to even confirm his report. Just how do you know the report wasn't modified afterwards?

Bangladeshis even today still question some missing information but they got other things to worry about so they let these things go.

Welcome to the forum, glad to see a new Bangladeshi poster here.

I think you mistakenly mentioned about Hamidur Rahman, or two people, Hamidur or Hamoodur were mixed up. The name is Hamoodur not Hamidur, which both you and Labong mentioned as Hamidur. And Gigawatt did correctly post his wiki link:
Hamoodur Rahman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

About your assertions, we need a new investigation as there is too many unanswered questions. I would recommend for you to go through this thread here:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...bureau-ib-r-aw-east-pakistan-1963-1971-a.html

As for Khilafa, I prefer a different idea, which I have discussed in these threads:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/164048-kalu_miahs-new-world-order-road-map-future.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180755-geopolitics-asean-region.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180767-geopolitics-eurasia-region.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180771-geopolitics-gcc-region.html

 

[LaBong]

Well I said hrc commission and we were talking about the exact number of pows, anyone who has iota knowledge about indo-pak war would have got it in a jiffy, he probably Google the name and came up with some random guy. And now trying to save his face by some supposed Oxford paper which contradicts hrc commission number. Someone should tell the kid that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to count the number of pows, which is what hrc did in their official report.

 

[kalu_miah]

Well I said hrc commission and we were talking about the exact number of pows, anyone who has iota knowledge about indo-pak war would have got it in a jiffy, he probably Google the name and came up with some random guy. And now trying to save his face by some supposed Oxford paper which contradicts hrc commission number. Someone should tell the kid that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to count the number of pows, which is what hrc did in their official report.

Yes, to your credit, you did mention hrc which is Hamoodur Rahman Commission, that made the famous report for Bhutto govt.

 

[Zabaniyah]

But Im curious, do you Indians look down upon us Bangladeshis because of the Bangladesh's military strength?

Not necessarily because of military strength.

The attitude of most of Indian political leaders, senior officials, business magnates and strategic thinkers towards Bangladesh has been one of disdain and apathy. Very few of these people either understand the dynamics of the domestic politics of Bangladesh or have grasped the full import of Indo-Bangladesh relations. The most glaring example recently of the abysmal ignorance of Bangladesh's politics was the Indian Prime Minister's remark towards the end of June 2011 that 25 per cent of the population of Bangladesh is very anti-Indian and, therefore, the political landscape in Bangladesh can change at any time. The only saving grace for the Prime Minister is that he alone cannot be blamed for the ignorance betrayed in this statement. For, his factually erroneous and diplomatically unwarranted remark must have been based on the precious advice given to him by the cronies around him. The simple fact that seems to elude the comprehension of most of our Pak-centric politicians, senior officials, journalists and analysts is that Bangladesh is not another Pakistan unless India, through its sheer ineptness and negligence, forces it to become one.

Forum

That was written by one named Muchkund Dubey, a former foreign secretary.

So, when did justice Hamoodur Rahman died.

You obviously weren't paying any attention were you?

 

[BJFP]

Welcome to the forum, glad to see a new Bangladeshi poster here.

I think you mistakenly mentioned about Hamidur Rahman, or two people, Hamidur or Hamoodur were mixed up. The name is Hamoodur not Hamidur, which both you and Labong mentioned as Hamidur. And Gigawatt did correctly post his wiki link:
Hamoodur Rahman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

About your assertions, we need a new investigation as there is too many unanswered questions. I would recommend for you to go through this thread here:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...bureau-ib-r-aw-east-pakistan-1963-1971-a.html

As for Khilafa, I prefer a different idea, which I have discussed in these threads:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/164048-kalu_miahs-new-world-order-road-map-future.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180755-geopolitics-asean-region.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180767-geopolitics-eurasia-region.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180771-geopolitics-gcc-region.html

Thanks, this forum is very interesting, because it brings different views of the subcontinent, especially our fellow Indians who seem to show a lot antagonism, but they make the discussion interesting regardless of the insults they throw at me.

Any University in USA the students are not allowed to reference Wikipedia because the facts can be changed. You can easily change the facts that's why if you want to have legitimacy you should source it from somewhere else. Over here the US State Department Declassified documents available of what happen...they are available in US libraries. Some of them are notes from the US embassy in East Pakistan during the war. As for a new investigation, it's not going to happen unless there is a neutral source to investigate bcz Indians have their story, Pakistanis have their stories, and Bangladeshis as the victims have their stories. Rahman's report is flawed because it doesn't correlate with the interviews I've done with Pakistanis here in USA who lived in East Pakistan and they do not acknowledge 90,000 soldiers during that era. The report by Pakistani chief justice is not as genuine as you think. Just because it's in Wikipedia doesn't mean it's 100% true. I can write an article from lies and Wikipedia will publish it. I can go to Wikipedia's main office in California and bribe them to allow lies to be published and it's that easy. His report was based in several books that depicted hrc report but even in those books I researched in, there are missing information. As for my side I was referring to the other Rahman's report which shows what really happened during that time. But as always history is written by those who survived to write it.

As for the khalifah...it's the only solution left. People turn To everything but the khalifah and everything else fails. Of course, anti- Muslims and 'secularists' will definitely go against it because the khalifah system looks out for the poor. In the khalifah system the richest of the rich in society must contribute to the poor and there is no way out.

I was a Bangladeshi nationalist before but then I just stayed as a patriot because as I found out more about Bangladesh's history and I see that India's role in our country's independence is totally different than what we see in the main stream atmosphere. Sheik Mujibur Rahman was a great civil rights leader and he deserves respect. Unfortunately the Awami League leadership of today doesn't even compare to his nobility. Unfortunately our nation's father was not a good prime minister as he practiced nepotism. Corruption seeded to his heart as well as his family unfortunately. One question is where did Mujibur Rahman get the money to send his daughters to Europe, Hasina and Rahana? If it wasn't from the treasury then where? Unanswered questions like those is the reason I am no longer a nationalists, just a patriot.

 

[BJFP]

Well I said hrc commission and we were talking about the exact number of pows, anyone who has iota knowledge about indo-pak war would have got it in a jiffy, he probably Google the name and came up with some random guy. And now trying to save his face by some supposed Oxford paper which contradicts hrc commission number. Someone should tell the kid that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to count the number of pows, which is what hrc did in their official report.

Ok let's get something straight, I'm not a kid, I'm an adult. By your choice of words you seem to sound like a kid. And I keep on telling you I don't rely on Wiki for true information. I don't need to save my face, if I feel I am wrong then I will admit it, I don't have an ego to lie. There's nothing wrong in admitting if I am wrong. But I am not wrong, but like I said you are entitled to your opinion.

And another thing, let's get something straight, I DO NOT HATE Indians. One of my closest friends is an Indian Hindu. We live in a mixed Desi society here in USA. In chand raat mela, the day before Eid, the Pakistanis hosts the event, and Bangladeshis and Indian Muslims participate and help out and we bring our Hindu friends for a night of enjoyment. We've been doing this for over 20 years here in USA. So I don't have this anti-Indian mindset. I go to Indian-owned restaurants and listen to Hindi songs and smoke hookah with my Indian and Pakistani friends so please understand my viewpoint that I do not have an anti-Indian mindset.

 

[LaBong]

Someone tell this kid that HRC report is on public domain and he just need to click on the references given in the reference section of wiki.

And the whole noise about US this and US that reeks of ignorance and low self-esteem.

Pakistan even released post card stamps depicting 90k POWS, and here this kid want us to believe HRC report counted them wrong.

Ok fair deal, why not posting your Oxford papers and US declassified documents here for everyone to see. So far all I see is hot air from a kid who's yet to complete his grad school.

Ok let's get something straight, I'm not a kid, I'm an adult. By your choice of words you seem to sound like a kid. And I keep on telling you I don't rely on Wiki for true information. I don't need to save my face, if I feel I am wrong then I will admit it, I don't have an ego to lie. There's nothing wrong in admitting if I am wrong. But I am not wrong, but like I said you are entitled to your opinion.

And another thing, let's get something straight, I DO NOT HATE Indians. One of my closest friends is an Indian Hindu. We live in a mixed Desi society here in USA. In chand raat mela, the day before Eid, the Pakistanis hosts the event, and Bangladeshis and Indian Muslims participate and help out and we bring our Hindu friends for a night of enjoyment. We've been doing this for over 20 years here in USA. So I don't have this anti-Indian mindset. I go to Indian-owned restaurants and listen to Hindi songs and smoke hookah with my Indian and Pakistani friends so please understand my viewpoint that I do not have an anti-Indian mindset.

I don't care if you are anti-Indian or pro-Indian. You accused Indians of carrying out genocide on Bangladeshis by masquerading as Pakistanis. Not only is that retarded but also is blatant lie.

Be as anti Indian as you may, but don't spread lies about people who saved rear end of your country men from getting kicked, whatever might had been the reason.

 

[BJFP]

Someone tell this kid that HRC report is on public domain and he just need to click on the references given in the reference section of wiki.

And the whole noise about US this and US that reeks of ignorance and low self-esteem.

Pakistan even released post card stamps depicting 90k POWS, and here this kid want us to believe HRC report counted them wrong.

Ok fair deal, why not posting your Oxford papers and US declassified documents here for everyone to see. So far all I see is hot air from a kid who's yet to complete his grad school.



I don't care if you are anti-Indian or pro-Indian. You accused Indians of carrying out genocide on Bangladeshis by masquerading as Pakistanis. Not only is that retarded but also is blatant lie.

Be as anti Indian as you may, but don't spread lies about people who saved rear end of your country men from getting kicked, whatever might had been the reason.

You want me to photocopy and scan 300+ pages just to show you...have you lost your mind? I have free time now that's why I'm n this site. I have no hot air...I'm relaxed and you know what, I admire your responses because you make every discussion interesting.

As for Indian saving Bengalis, yes we appreciate that, no doubt. But don't you think 30,000 West Pakistani soldiers will eventually loose in a land not native to them surrounded by 70 million Bengalis.

My mom told me security was better in East Pakistan when soldiers were around, people were afraid of breaking the law, and Bengalis just wanted anatomy not independence. But as soon as Pakistani soldiers started Operation Searchlight, that's when the Bengalis dumped the autonomy and started to fight for Independence.

 

[livingdead]

You want me to photocopy and scan 300+ pages just to show you...have you lost your mind? I have free time now that's why I'm n this site. I have no hot air...I'm relaxed and you know what, I admire your responses because you make every discussion interesting.

As for Indian saving Bengalis, yes we appreciate that, no doubt. But don't you think 30,000 West Pakistani soldiers will eventually loose in a land not native to them surrounded by 70 million Bengalis.

My mom told me security was better in East Pakistan when soldiers were around, people were afraid of breaking the law, and Bengalis just wanted anatomy not independence. But as soon as Pakistani soldiers started Operation Searchlight, that's when the Bengalis dumped the autonomy and started to fight for Independence.

I dont think anybody saved bengalis, India (rather Indira) had her own reason to get involved. Bengalis got their country. India broke enemy's back and pakistan successfully extracted the soldiers. All should be happy about India fighting the war.
And obviously it was due to bangladeshis, the war was won in east.
What is sad, is some bangladeshis do not acknowledge history. No need to be grateful(because it was our war too), but be objective about history.

 

[kalu_miah]

I dont think anybody saved bengalis, India (rather Indira) had her own reason to get involved. Bengalis got their country. India broke enemy's back and pakistan successfully extracted the soldiers. All should be happy about India fighting the war.
And obviously it was due to bangladeshis, the war was won in east.
What is sad, is some bangladeshis do not acknowledge history. No need to be grateful(because it was our war too), but be objective about history.

Finally we see some people coming round and call a spade a spade, but there are too many unanswered questions, so we need a new investigation to set history straight. Hint Angami Phizo, Laldenga et al.

 

[kalu_miah]

Thanks, this forum is very interesting, because it brings different views of the subcontinent, especially our fellow Indians who seem to show a lot antagonism, but they make the discussion interesting regardless of the insults they throw at me.

Any University in USA the students are not allowed to reference Wikipedia because the facts can be changed. You can easily change the facts that's why if you want to have legitimacy you should source it from somewhere else. Over here the US State Department Declassified documents available of what happen...they are available in US libraries. Some of them are notes from the US embassy in East Pakistan during the war. As for a new investigation, it's not going to happen unless there is a neutral source to investigate bcz Indians have their story, Pakistanis have their stories, and Bangladeshis as the victims have their stories. Rahman's report is flawed because it doesn't correlate with the interviews I've done with Pakistanis here in USA who lived in East Pakistan and they do not acknowledge 90,000 soldiers during that era. The report by Pakistani chief justice is not as genuine as you think. Just because it's in Wikipedia doesn't mean it's 100% true. I can write an article from lies and Wikipedia will publish it. I can go to Wikipedia's main office in California and bribe them to allow lies to be published and it's that easy. His report was based in several books that depicted hrc report but even in those books I researched in, there are missing information. As for my side I was referring to the other Rahman's report which shows what really happened during that time. But as always history is written by those who survived to write it.

As for the khalifah...it's the only solution left. People turn To everything but the khalifah and everything else fails. Of course, anti- Muslims and 'secularists' will definitely go against it because the khalifah system looks out for the poor. In the khalifah system the richest of the rich in society must contribute to the poor and there is no way out.

I was a Bangladeshi nationalist before but then I just stayed as a patriot because as I found out more about Bangladesh's history and I see that India's role in our country's independence is totally different than what we see in the main stream atmosphere. Sheik Mujibur Rahman was a great civil rights leader and he deserves respect. Unfortunately the Awami League leadership of today doesn't even compare to his nobility. Unfortunately our nation's father was not a good prime minister as he practiced nepotism. Corruption seeded to his heart as well as his family unfortunately. One question is where did Mujibur Rahman get the money to send his daughters to Europe, Hasina and Rahana? If it wasn't from the treasury then where? Unanswered questions like those is the reason I am no longer a nationalists, just a patriot.

Will be glad to take a look at those papers. You can get in touch with me at

kalumiah2012 at gmail dt com

I don't think you had a chance to look at the threads I posted.

As for Khilafa, lets just say you are way too young and have not yet seen the world enough to understand what is going on, so before you pass a judgement for what is good for us, if I were you I would wait till I get some more experience and exposure.

 

[BJFP]

Will be glad to take a look at those papers. You can get in touch with me at

kalumiah2012 at gmail dt com

I don't think you had a chance to look at the threads I posted.

As for Khilafa, lets just say you are way too young and have not yet seen the world enough to understand what is going on, so before you pass a judgement for what is good for us, if I were you I would wait till I get some more experience and exposure.

Sure those papers should be available in any public library's database. Just go to anyone near your home and ask the librarian. But word of caution, the US Federal government keeps an eye on who chechecks on who reads what as it is stated in the front of the library, it goes on high alert for people with Muslim names.

Also, Im not as young as you think. I know the ground reality in the world is totally different to even discussing about the khalifah in any public forum. I've been there, done that. My assertion was totally based on faith. I don't know about your degree of practicing Islam, but for me I realized dua is the most powerful thing in the world. It's the same reaction you just gave me that I received with others. Apparently, in USA any 'adult' who relies on Allah for help is portrayed as a kid or immature, which is very sad. And that has become the norm in majority of the Muslim world. It is said 'dua is the weapon of the believer.'.

Ramadan is coming Insh'Allah so please lets increase our imaan and make dua for our Muslim brethrens in Bangladesh and the rest of the Muslim world.

As for those documents, I read a small part but I'm running around at the moment taking multiple things so I have yet to completely read them, but I do plan to read them.

 

[LaBong]

You want me to photocopy and scan 300+ pages just to show you...have you lost your mind? I have free time now that's why I'm n this site. I have no hot air...I'm relaxed and you know what, I admire your responses because you make every discussion interesting.

As for Indian saving Bengalis, yes we appreciate that, no doubt. But don't you think 30,000 West Pakistani soldiers will eventually loose in a land not native to them surrounded by 70 million Bengalis.

My mom told me security was better in East Pakistan when soldiers were around, people were afraid of breaking the law, and Bengalis just wanted anatomy not independence. But as soon as Pakistani soldiers started Operation Searchlight, that's when the Bengalis dumped the autonomy and started to fight for Independence.

No you need to post the relevant section which says there were 30000 troops present in East Pakistan. I don't know what they teach you in us schools, but all declassified us documents are available online, you just need to post the link, else people would assume you are lying, which you are anyway, as everyone knows that there were 90000 pows.