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12-million-year-old fossil found in Pakistan raises questions for evolutionists

Saifullah Sani

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A new fossil may force anthropologists to rewrite the evolutionary history of how early ancestors of humans first began walking upright on two legs.

For decades evolutionist scientists have believed that our upright posture evolved in a common ancestor shared with the great apes including chimpanzees, gorillas and orangutans around 15 million years ago.

This led to the broad torsos and mobile forelimbs that appear all great apes – known as the orthograde body plan.

But a 12.3 million year old fossilised hipbone belonging a prehistoric ape named Sivapithecus indicus discovered in Siwalik, Pakistan, is challenging this belief.

This species was thought to be an ancient relative of the orangutan that emerged after the great apes split from the gibbons and lived around 12 million to 10 million years ago

Fossilised skull fragments have suggested it had the facial features similar to modern orangutans and scientists assumed it would also have an ape-like body plan.

However, the new hipbone has revealed that these creatures had a narrow torso that more resembles those of monkeys.

This suggests that Sivapithecus may have had both ape-like and monkey-like features, and has left researchers baffled about how it fits into the evolutionary tree.

If it is indeed an ancestor of the orangutan, then it could mean that the upright ape-like body plan evolved at least twice in the past – once in orangutans and once in other great apes.

Dr Michele Morgan, cruator of osteology and paleoanthropology at the Peabody Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology at Harvard University, said: ‘We always thought if we found this body part, that it would show some of the features we find in the living great apes.

‘To find something like this was surprising.

‘Today, all the living great apes—gorillas, orangutans, chimps—have very broad torsos.

‘People had commonly thought that this torso shape was shared among all the great apes, meaning it must have evolved in a common ancestor.

‘We initially believed that Sivapithecus was on the orangutan line, but if that is the case, then the great ape body shape would have had to evolve at least twice.’

The researchers, whose work is published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science, used the new hipbone fossil along with other pieces of fossilised skeleton discovered in the past to reconstruct how Sivapithecus may have moved.

The believe that it was probably a slow-moving and deliberate creature that lived in the trees.

They say it may have moved on all fours above supports but perhaps frequently used branches to help support its body in much the same way as modern orangutans do.

There are a number of competing theories for how our ape ancestors first began walking on two legs.

Some biologists believe it was a natural progression as ancient species of ape began using branches to help support their weight.

Others say they used water to help support their weight as they began foraging for food in rivers and pools in the forests, much like gorillas, bonobos and chimpanzees still do today.

However, Dr Lawrence Flynn, assistant director of the American School of Prehistoric Research at the Peabody Museum who was also involved in the research, said that the latest findings suggest that the evolutionary tree of the great apes was probably far more complicated than previously believed.

He said: ‘I think we sometimes take the easy route of trying to understand these fossils based on creatures we find today.

‘What we’re finding out time and again is these 10- or 12- or 15-million-year-old creatures were their own entities. Today is not always a very good model for the past.

‘What this speaks to is a rich tree with a lot of branches. There are not just one or two branches that reach back into the Miocene. It’s a very rich and complex tree.’

12-million-year-old fossil found in Pakistan raises questions for evolutionists | Pakistan Today
 
He said: ‘I think we sometimes take the easy route of trying to understand these fossils based on creatures we find today.

‘What we’re finding out time and again is these 10- or 12- or 15-million-year-old creatures were their own entities. Today is not always a very good model for the past.

‘What this speaks to is a rich tree with a lot of branches. There are not just one or two branches that reach back into the Miocene. It’s a very rich and complex tree.’
or just screw evolution theory poor theory is challenged time and again and hence still remains a theory :angel:
 
Evolution is not just a theory its a theory backed by a lot of evidence !

You did evolve from Apes ! :tongue:

I evolved from Angels ! :angel:
yea evidence from 1950s....Latest DNA, RNA as well as protein work has shown that it is more complex than falling out of a tree ;)
 
yea evidence from 1950s....Latest DNA, RNA as well as protein work has shown that it is more complex than falling out of a tree ;)

Oh come on the fossil record is more recent than that; things like the Tiktaalik discovered in Canada in 2004 showed that it has fish and amphibious features simultaneously ! Then there are animals such as the Horse which have a sufficiently complete enough fossil record for the past 50 million years !

Then there is the arguments based on comparative anatomy whereby many animals have developed eye-like organs despite living in disparate conditions.

Then there is the one obtained through biochemical organization; whereby all organisms have their biochemical organization based on the same genetic encoding in DNA. Heck in 2001 scientists won the Nobel prize in Medicine for showing that a gene evolved in control system of a yeast cell the same way it mutates in some human cancers. Our DNA sequences change only by 1.2% from chimps, 1.6% from gorillas and 6.6% from baboons !

Then there is the genetic evidence such as how the hemoglobin protein being made up of two genes one of which being chromosome 16 which has the same configuration in chimps and gorillas.

Then the biggest evidence for it is the verifiable proof of micro-evolution occurring right as we speak !

I haven't got a clue what I wrote...I picked it up from the book written by the Physicist Nidhal Guessoum 'Islam's Quantum Questions - Reconciling Muslim Tradition and Modern Science' ! :ashamed:

But it does make sense ! :mad:

And any biologist who denies Evolution is looked at as a loony by everyone amongst in the Scientific Community ! :argh:
 
Lets patent it before a certain country adds this one to their list of pre historic inventions.
Some thing on the lines of "this many thousand years ago we had a cloned monkey and the hip bone made by our ancient 3D printer was inserted in the monkey by our ancient surgeons because our poor baandar was born with a limp" :D
 
Yaar let me start of with this
if evolution existed dont you think morons on this planet would have gone extinct or evolved to be better people? That isnt even high level evolution i think...
Oh come on the fossil record is more recent than that; things like the Tiktaalik discovered in Canada in 2004 showed that it has fish and amphibious features simultaneously ! Then there are animals such as the Horse which have a sufficiently complete enough fossil record for the past 50 million years !

G animal level....But development of the brain is a totally different context...having a "mutation" which will cause the brain to function as a man not an animal and then having that mutation passed to the next generation and stable is a big big wow!

Why havent more animals (lets go with apes ) evolved to become humans?

Then there is the arguments based on comparative anatomy whereby many animals have developed eye-like organs despite living in disparate conditions.
again animals....I wanna see 1 evolutionary change which is persistent in humans to make them i dont know evolve into animals....since no other animal is becoming human....

Then there is the one obtained through biochemical organization; whereby all organisms have their biochemical organization based on the same genetic encoding in DNA. Heck in 2001 scientists won the Nobel prize in Medicine for showing that a gene evolved in control system of a yeast cell the same way it mutates in some human cancers. Our DNA sequences change only by 1.2% from chimps, 1.6% from gorillas and 6.6% from baboons !
Dear God! Do you know yeast is a single cellular organism so far you can do easy experiments with it but nothing complex! So yes basic systems yes but development of a whole brain....development of thinking and language.....I havent heard the yeast speaking to us yet :pop:

Then there is the genetic evidence such as how the hemoglobin protein being made up of two genes one of which being chromosome 16 which has the same configuration in chimps and gorillas.
lolz

Then the biggest evidence for it is the verifiable proof of micro-evolution occurring right as we speak !
This one I totally believe in and rely on for my experiments.....But microevolution vs creation of an organ or a system is 2 separate stuff....if it was that easy evolution wouldnt be a theory....

You do know that some animals shed their skins, many have many teeth in their lives(snakes) why were these selected and retained?

organ to system level evolution is really questionable! Try fitting a dog's kidney into human and see if the function is similar....or if it can sustain or even an ape's kidney!

I haven't got a clue what I wrote...I picked it up from the book written by the Physicist Nidhal Guessoum 'Islam's Quantum Questions - Reconciling Muslim Tradition and Modern Science' ! :ashamed:
lolzz......what did the Physicist say about biology? why didnt he compare physics from the Quran? :-o

And any biologist who denies Evolution is looked at as a loony by everyone amongst in the Scientific Community ! :argh:
I can go with that....by demanding to show me evolutionary stages (in fossil proves) between organs to system level proofs!! Heck even ape common ancestor level proof without the missing link

Bro all these also point to a common creator?
 
Yaar let me start of with this
if evolution existed dont you think morons on this planet would have gone extinct or evolved to be better people? That isnt even high level evolution i think...


G animal level....But development of the brain is a totally different context...having a "mutation" which will cause the brain to function as a man not an animal and then having that mutation passed to the next generation and stable is a big big wow!

Why havent more animals (lets go with apes ) evolved to become humans?


again animals....I wanna see 1 evolutionary change which is persistent in humans to make them i dont know evolve into animals....since no other animal is becoming human....


Dear God! Do you know yeast is a single cellular organism so far you can do easy experiments with it but nothing complex! So yes basic systems yes but development of a whole brain....development of thinking and language.....I havent heard the yeast speaking to us yet :pop:


lolz


This one I totally believe in and rely on for my experiments.....But microevolution vs creation of an organ or a system is 2 separate stuff....if it was that easy evolution wouldnt be a theory....

You do know that some animals shed their skins, many have many teeth in their lives(snakes) why were these selected and retained?

organ to system level evolution is really questionable! Try fitting a dog's kidney into human and see if the function is similar....or if it can sustain or even an ape's kidney!


lolzz......what did the Physicist say about biology? why didnt he compare physics from the Quran? :-o


I can go with that....by demanding to show me evolutionary stages (in fossil proves) between organs to system level proofs!! Heck even ape common ancestor level proof without the missing link

Bro all these also point to a common creator?

I don't know anything that you're talking about ! :o:

I simply copy pasted nuggets of information on Evolution that I had ! :ashamed:

But one thing is certain; its accepted by almost every biologist out there so it must add up ! :argh:

So far as the Koran is concerned; it supports the theory of evolution as well ! :smokin:
 
when was this fossil discovered and who researched on it?
 

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