110 billion increase in Defence budget

[Zee-Gen]

wow never knew that a whopping 72 Billion goes to the armys pensions fund

Young man its 3 million army retired personnel those who are getting 72 billion as a pension fund whereas 0.5 million civilians receiving 18 billion……..do simple math:

3 million/72 billion = 24000
0.5 million/18 billion = 36000

Means a civilian retried person average receives 36000 and army retried person on average receives 24000……..now what is big fuss…???

 

[TaimiKhan]

^^^ Earlier Article^^^

Pakistan News Service - PakTribune

Military pension bill Rs72 bn, civilian Rs18 bn, PAC told

ISLAMABAD: The Public Accounts Committee (PAC) on Tuesday stopped short of urging Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani to treat the military pension budget as part of the overall defence budget after Secretary Finance Salman Siddique revealed that three million retired armed forces personnel were getting Rs 72 billion annual pension under civilian head as against only Rs 18 billion for 0.5 million retired civilian employees.

Young man its 3 million army retired personals those who are getting 72 billion as a pension fund whereas 0.5 million civilians receiving 18 billion……..do simple math:

3 million/72 billion = 24000
0.5 million/18 billion = 36000

Means a civilian retried person average receives 36000 and army retried person on average receives 24000……..now what is big fuss…???

Good find. So, the civilian average is more compared to the armed forces.

Did the PAC took this point under consideration ??

 

[Hutchroy]

Young man its 3 million army retired personals those who are getting 72 billion as a pension fund whereas 0.5 million civilians receiving 18 billion……..do simple math:

3 million/72 billion = 24000
0.5 million/18 billion = 36000

Means a civilian retried person average receives 36000 and army retried person on average receives 24000……..now what is big fuss…???

It is mind boggling that Pakistan has only 0.5 Million Civilian Retirees and 3 Million Army Retired Personnel.

It is quite possible that the Civilian Retirees are 5 Million and not 0.5 Million.

However, if my supposition is incorrect then it behoves ill for Pakistan that its Military Force is Six Times its Civilian Force.

 

[TaimiKhan]

It is mind boggling that Pakistan has only 0.5 Million Civilian Retirees and 3 Million Army Retired Personnel.

It is quite possible that the Civilian Retirees are 5 Million and not 0.5 Million.

However, if my supposition is incorrect then it behoves ill for Pakistan that its Military Force is Six Times its Civilian Force.

Plz read my last page's post, there is a fundamental reason for that, by the time one civilian civil officer retires at the age of 60, by that time, scores of armed forces officers and ORs retire as their service is up.

Armed forces retiring system is based on service, not age.

Lets suppose there are two friends at age 20, one gets into civil service, another one goes to armed forces, the civilian one no matter what grade achieved will retire at reaching age 60, while his friend in the armed forces after achieving the rank of a major will retire at age 45-46, thus one will start getting pension at age 45-36, while the other would be still 14-15 years away from getting his first pension, so if you see this phenomenon, armed forces retire more officers/ORs compared to civilian setup, even in police the retiring age is 60 years, so this is the basic reason for armed forces having more pensioners.

So this is not the fault of the armed forces, its the fault of the retirement system, which has many ways to get corrected.

 

[Zee-Gen]

Plz read my last page's post, there is a fundamental reason for that, by the time one civilian civil officer retires at the age of 60, by that time, scores of armed forces officers and ORs retire as their service is up.

Armed forces retiring system is based on service, not age.

Lets suppose there are two friends at age 20, one gets into civil service, another one goes to armed forces, the civilian one no matter what grade achieved will retire at reaching age 60, while his friend in the armed forces after achieving the rank of a major will retire at age 45-46, thus one will start getting pension at age 45-36, while the other would be still 14-15 years away from getting his first pension, so if you see this phenomenon, armed forces retire more officers/ORs compared to civilian setup, even in police the retiring age is 60 years, so this is the basic reason for armed forces having more pensioners.

So this is not the fault of the armed forces, its the fault of the retirement system, which has many ways to get corrected.

Secondly if one infers from PAC statistics that govt. paying army retired personnel more, it's unjustifiable compare to their work load. Lets take this recent catastrophic torrential downpour resulting in flood as an example, army personnel did and doing more work as compare to their civilian counterparts………I mean their working hours are more, tuff and even after retirement, they are reserve for future wars…….IMO they deserve a little more.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Secondly if one infers from PAC statistics that govt. paying army retired personnels more, it's unjustifiable compare to their work load. Lets take this recent catastrophic torrential downpour resulting in flood as an example, army personnels did and doing more work as compare to their civilian counterparts………I mean their working hours are more, tuff and even after retirement, they are reserve for future wars…….IMO they deserve a little more.

Yeah, there is difference in work load and stuff like that.

But, i am all for an equal distribution, there should be no one who should be getting more and the other suffering, armed forces or civilian ones, in the end they all are Pakistanis, thus should have equal distribution.

PAC or the media may be jumping up to the fact the armed forces pension is more and their numbers too, but after that they should see to the facts that why it is so, and as said above, there is a basic reason. They should dissect the whole issue and see for figures in detail.

Had the armed forces retiring age be 60, things would have been different.

Plus, i am for all the necessary steps through which armed forces pensions be monitored and seen no one gets more then required and ages and after-retirement jobs be taken into consideration and pensions decided based on these factors.

As an example, my grand father retired as a Major way back in 70s, is getting a pension of something like 17-18K now, while a Major retired as of now, would be getting much more then the figure quoted above, even though this Major can get a job and may have an earning, while officers like my grand father at age of 80+ has hardly 17-18K of pension.

So yes, there are discrepancies and I am in favor to rectify them all, within armed forces, within civilian forces and in between them both.

 

[Hutchroy]

Plz read my last page's post, there is a fundamental reason for that, by the time one civilian civil officer retires at the age of 60, by that time, scores of armed forces officers and ORs retire as their service is up.

Armed forces retiring system is based on service, not age.

Lets suppose there are two friends at age 20, one gets into civil service, another one goes to armed forces, the civilian one no matter what grade achieved will retire at reaching age 60, while his friend in the armed forces after achieving the rank of a major will retire at age 45-46, thus one will start getting pension at age 45-36, while the other would be still 14-15 years away from getting his first pension, so if you see this phenomenon, armed forces retire more officers/ORs compared to civilian setup, even in police the retiring age is 60 years, so this is the basic reason for armed forces having more pensioners.

So this is not the fault of the armed forces, its the fault of the retirement system, which has many ways to get corrected.

1. As a Major of the Pakistani Army (equivalent in the Air Force and Navy) the retirement age is 45

2. There is a sizable number of Lt. Colonels, Brigadiers, Major- Generals, Lt. Generals and Generals who continue possibly upto the age of 60. In addition the Non-Commissioned and Warrant Officers also continue beyond the age of 45. As such I will take an age of 50 for discussion. Also note that Medical, Engineering and other support staff do not necessarily retire at the age of 45 and continue to serve longer.

3. Thus the Military Personnel retire after 30 years service and the Civil Services Personnel retire after 40 years service.

As such having Six Times the Military Personnel in Retirement when the difference is say 25% is most definitely “unreasonable” and as such the Civil Service Retirement Personnel Figure should be much larger that Half a Million.

The figure of Half a Million Civil Servants in Retirement is unbelievable when 600,000 Active Military Personnel lead to Five Times their number in Retirement.

It would be interesting to find out the number of Pakistani Civil Service Personnel in Retirement.

 

[rubyjackass]

I am pretty sure the jawans are getting the appropriate allowances for the deployment.

Under this arrangement a certain amount of daily allowance is also paid to all ranks, and quite rightly, for the days that they are engaged in such duties away from the unit lines/residences

DAWN.COM | Columnists | Scraping the barrel

 

[sparklingway]

This thread is no place to discuss military vs civil pensions, number of employees or anything else unrelated to the topic. The case of military pensions being put under Establishment Division budget has been debated since 2001. If you want to debate the reasons, please open a new thread.

And since I want to settle this once and for all, the number of civilian pensioners listed here are Federal Government employees only. Provincial government pensioners far exceed these numbers. No more off-topic discussion. And for objectivity's sake, please see PAC minutes of the meeting. No legislator said anything about numbers of employees since they understand the reason I cited above. Objections were raised about shifting heads of allocations from Mod to Estb Div and that's all.

 

[Omar1984]

Good move by GoP. Too many countries have their eye on Pakistan these days. Pakistan needs the best of the best armed forces, and the best defence in the world.

 

[Cheetah786]

We could get subsidized fuel once again from KSA but with having zardari in the office that is just a dream.

It just makes me wonder why we ain't exploring Arabian seabed for Oil & gas

I wonder what would it take for KSA fan boys to get it.

 

[STD]

And a huge decrease in development budget...cant quite understand it.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Didnt Pakistan just go through a flood that was the biggest in its history? Why increase?

 

[Von Hölle]

India spends 2+% of its GDP thats not bad at all. Just because it ends up as a whooping 30+ billion dollars isnt our fault(its only going to expand more). Pakistan is 3%?

The African country "Eritrea" spends 20%+ of its GDP. Not our fault it only ends up to be 300+ million ..

Poverty? I think India will look different in the next 50-100 years..

Including the recent increase of 110 Billion and counting in the 233 Billion being spent under the separate head of WOT and military pensions, Pakistan this year's defence budget will 5.2% of the GDP..or as I showed in post 15.

 

[sparklingway]

Senate Questions Session November 24, 2010.

Prof. Khurshid Ahmed: (Notice received on 09-09-2010 at 13:30 p.m.)

Will the Minister for Defence be pleased to state:
(a) the amount allocated for relief and rehabilitation of flood affectees in the country out of the current fiscal budget of the Ministry of Defence and its percentage of the total budget of the Ministry;
(b) the amount received by the Ministry from the Government and other national and international sources for the said purpose;
(c) the schemes / projects launched or proposed to be launched by the Ministry for the said purpose indicating also the amount allocated for each scheme / project; and
(d) the details of the advertisements issued by the Ministry to print and electronic media in connection with flood situation in the country indicating also the amount spent on each advertisement?

Ch. Ahmed Mukhtar:

(a) No funds have been allocated for relief and rehabilitation of flood affectees in the country out of current budget of Ministry of Defence.
(b) No amount has been received by the Ministry from the Government and other national and international sources for the said purpose.
(c) No schemes/projects have been launched or proposed to be launched by the
Ministry for the said purpose.
(d) Pakistan Meteorological Department issued weather flood forecast and warnings through Print and Electronic media. The same was printed/broadcast by the relevant agencies free of cost.

A Rs. 110 billion increase in budget. Rs 12 billion paid as DAs to soldiers involved in flood relief. All fuel charges paid to MoD by provincial governments.