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International Media account on PAF’s role in 1965 war

I am aware of what HOBS missiles are capable of, it doesn't make me an expert, and especially not that some one you are deferring to who thinks he is an expert on all things related to fighter aircraft technology by reading up secondary sources online and applying car sales analogies. You are a jealous little man, who cannot take anything positive about Pakistan on a Pakistani forum.

Dear Av8er, with the technology becomes superior, still the role of the Pilot cannot be nulify, because he is still the one as the decission maker. But one thing is clear, that in the present scenario, the importance have shifted from Platform specific to Net Centric, and the one who is more netcentric, Make use of Sensor Fusion will be at the advantage. The training now speacialize the Pilot to use its platform to make use of it to the Max and the technology is the tools that helps him by taking care of many things, and taking lot of burden from it, but technology dosen't remove the work load from it, rather the technology makes the tactics more complex, that's why IAF still prefer Twin Seater MKI, with two pilot working in the Tandem and also wanted Tandem Seat in its futuristic FGFA. Why RuAF don't prefer single seater is the mentality, where they want total control of the Ground station, a legacy of the USSR for stopping the defection of the Soviet planes to the western. Earlier on IAF too follow the Soviet Doctrine, but soon realized that the capability of the combat plane could be very well harness by the Pilot, when it its given much freedom to take decision on the condition.

P.S Though Indian Airforce have most of the combat plane of the Russian/Soviet origin, it don't follow Soviet doctrine, and that's why most of the exercise it did recently is with the Western airforce.

The HOBS coupled with HMDS is very dangerous combo, and if two adversaries are equipped with the same two capability, then the straight clash would means the mutual suicide of both the parties, therefore the switch is toward the Long range Ramjet powered BVRAAM like Meterors, AIM 120 C-9, RD-77PD.

Hope it will clear all the doubts.
 
I wonder how much you are ignorant, NS himself speaks, how he ran to Clinton asking Hamari Jaan Bachao, and then a hotline was made from Washington to New Delhi, and Atal Bihari at that time PM of Republic of India was sleeping, when he was awaken, and Clinton asked India to stop Indian bombardment, which our PM said could only be stopped when PA intruders will return to their side.



It was Nehru, which raise this issue in UN (a mistake, highly opposed by Home minister Sardar Vallab Bhai Patel), due to which UN demands cease fire, the real cause what we are facing at present, otherwise India could get back the land illegally occupied by Pakistan.



B.S Check it yourself, its not Bollywood rather Hollywood, a U.S story on Kargil.

How I Crossed Swords With Chuck Yeager

Written by Admiral Arun Prakash

This piece is a "first person" account of an episode of the 1971 Indo-Pak war written a lighter vein by Adm Arun Prakash for Vayu magazine. He was on deputation to No. 20 Squadron, commanded by (then) Wing Commander CV Parker, MVC, VM. This IAF unit is credited with having won the highest number of gallantry awards in the conflict.



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The First Supersonic Man

Lest the title of this story mislead people into thinking that I am attempting to wreck the newborn Indo-US détente, let me start by quoting Henry Kissinger's words from his book "My White House Years". He says, "An aircraft carrier task force that we had alerted previously was now ordered to move towards the Bay of Bengal, ostensibly for the evacuation of Americans, but in reality to give emphasis to our warnings against an attack on West Pakistan".

There can be little doubt that the sailing of Task Force 74, headed by the carrier Enterprise into India's backyard on 10th December 1971 is something that has rankled Indians ever since. Especially since attacking West Pakistan was not on the agenda. However, with the Henry Hyde Indo-US Cooperation Act of Congress now in place, it is time to iron out these wrinkles. Fortunately, information has come to light recently, which shows that there may have been good and valid reasons for this action by the Nixon administration. And what's more, it also appears that Brig Gen Charles "Chuck" Yeager USAF, and I may have contributed to this denouement!

For those (very few) readers who may not be familiar with Chuck Yeager, let me just mention that he is the person who inspired the book "The Right Stuff" by Tom Wolfe, and the famous Hollywood movie of the same name. A few words about this legendary test pilot's career would not be out of place here.

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The first man to break the sound barrier - Brigadier General Charles E "Chuck" Yeager, USAF.
He enlisted as a Private in the US Army Air Corps in 1941 and entered pilot training to graduate two years later as a flight officer. During World War II, he flew 56 combat missions, which he shot down 12 German aircraft (including five Me-109s during a single mission). Returning to the USA in 1945, his remarkable flying skills caught the eye of his superiors and he was assigned to the USAF Test Pilot School then at Wright Field.

On graduation, Yeager was selected as project pilot for one of the most important flight test programmes in history; to fly the rocket powered Bell X-1. On 14 Oct 1947, after launch from the belly of a B-29, he accelerated to Mach 1.06 at 42,000 feet and became the first pilot to shatter the once dreaded "Sound barrier". During his career he flew over 10,000 hours on 330 different types and models of aircraft.

After commanding the USAF Test Pilot School and a fighter wing in Philippines, (flying 127 missions over Vietnam). In 1969 he was promoted to Brigadier General and in January 1971, in his penultimate assignment, he was sent as the US Defence Representative to Pakistan in Islamabad. And that is where fate decided that our paths should cross.

Tribe Twenty

The cramped and cryptic entry in my flying logbook for 4th December 1971 reads as follows:

Date Type Flown No. Mission: Duration Results
4 Dec Hunter Mk 56-A 463 2 aircraft gun strike (Lead) PAF Base Chaklala 1 hr 15 mts 424 rounds HE fired, one C-130 on ground
The preceding entry for the same day says simply: "Delhi-Home Base". And thereby hangs the somewhat unusual tale that I am going to relate.

As a young naval Lieutenant, in the late 1960s, having recently carrier-qualified on the Armstrong-Whitworth Sea Hawk, from the deck of the Indian Navy's sole flat-top Vikrant (R-11) I was just settling down to polish up my embarked flying skills when I received orders for an exchange posting with the Indian Air Force (IAF). So I packed my bags and with great reluctance, left the sunny beaches of Goa (where our Naval Air Station was located) and headed for north India.

Having converted to the British Hawker Hunter ground attack fighter (a second-generation trans-sonic descendant of the Sea Hawk) I was posted to No.20 Squadron "The Lightnings" based close to New Delhi in end-1970. It did not take me long to find my feet on terra firma; the air force did everything more or less like the navy, except that they were very serious and professional. But we thought that we performed with greater style and panache, and wore orange "mae wests' while doing it!

The IAF was good enough to give me a longish spell of leave in mid-1971, during which a friend and I hitch hiked to Europe via Iran, Turkey, Greece and the Balkans. We spent 4th of July amidst boisterous GIs in the Hoffbrauhaus in Munich, and Bastille Day amongst celebrating Parisian crowds on the Champs Elysees. But everywhere we went, the newsstands flashed an unfamiliar but ominous new word: "Bangladesh".

I returned to New Delhi to find that my IAF squadron had been moved further north and went looking for it. Our new base was located within 2 minutes flying time (at 420 knots) from the India-Pakistan border and would certainly be an interesting place to be in when the "Balloon" went up.

My Squadron "Boss" was an unusual combination; a great flyer, and also a martinet1]. He made it clear that if we ever went to war, he wanted to be sure of two things: (a) that he had prepared us for it in the best possible manner, and (b) that he went in ahead of everyone else. So for the next four months we were put through a most rigorous training programme, focusing on target recognition, low-level navigation, weapon delivery at dawn/dusk and air combat.

The only long-range combat aircraft in the sub-continent in that era were the Canberra light bomber in the IAF inventory, and its US derivative, the Martin B-57 that equipped our rival, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). The Hunter Mark 56-A that my squadron flew carried four large under-wing fuel tanks, which gave it (for those days) an extraordinary radius of action at low level. Therefore, as far as reach was concerned, apart from the Canberra, my outfit had the longest legs in the IAF.

As single a single-seat fighter, the Hunter's operating milieu was, however, restricted to daylight hours, whereas night bombing missions were the forte' of the Canberra. It was therefore an unstated sine qua non that wars on the Indian sub-continent would commence only on a full moon night so that the Canberras and B-57s could be fully exploited.

During summer of 1971, as we watched the sequence of tragic events unfolding in East Pakistan, most of us were convinced about the inevitability of conflict. At the end of the monsoons, to avoid becoming "Sitting ducks" for a PAF pre-emptive strike; every full moon phase saw my squadron retiring to a rear base (a few hundred miles away from the international border). Since the December full moon was to be on the 2nd of the month, on 25th November we flew down to Ambala (in Punjab) for some firing exercises and on 1st December we flew even further south (and east) to Delhi.

Sure enough, on the evening of Friday 3rd December the radio announced that at 5.40 pm, PAF fighters had carried out a coordinated strike on nine Indian air bases all along the western border. Later that night we clustered around the radio to hear Prime Minister Indira Gandhi tell the nation that we were at war with Pakistan.

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TRIBE TWENTY: The Pilots of No.20 Squadron. The author, Arun Prakash can be seen kneeling in the middle row , 2nd from left.
Lightning Strike

Since the die had now been cast, our first task was to get back to base and commence the retaliatory air war ASAP. Having briefed for a 5.30 am take-off, we grabbed a couple of hours of fitful sleep, and tumbled out of bed at 4 on a bitterly cold morning to find the base completely fog bound! Starting up and taxying in blackout conditions would have been bad enough, but the fog made things even more interesting. Some people took a wrong turn on the taxiway and got lost, but my wingman and I were glad to find ourselves lined up for a timely take-off.

It was eerie to be airborne in the pre-dawn dark, flying at 500 feet with a hint of moonlight in the sky and a sheet of fog below. We knew no enemy fighter could be around, but that did not prevent the hair on your neck prickling now and then. We had a safe transit of about 45 minutes to base, save two minor incidents.

As we neared home, one could see in the distance, a very pretty but intense fireworks display. It was the "Friendly" tracer, which our local air-defence gunners seemed to be putting up to welcome us back! Some frightfully bad language on RT from the Flight Commander soon put a stop to it.

Shortly after I had touched down on the darkened runway, I saw from the corner of my eye, a green light whizzing rapidly past my port wingtip. It was my wingman who, in his excitement, had landed a few knots "hot" and after overtaking my aircraft came back on the centerline ahead of me, luckily missing the runway lights! I heard a muttered apology on the radio, but we had more important things on our minds.

It was still dark as we taxied into our blast pens, and there was just time for a quick wash and bite, while the aircraft were fuelled and armed. Briefing for the first wave of retaliatory strikes on Pakistan was businesslike and we walked to our aircraft just behind the Boss. I had drawn a two-aircraft mission against PAF base Chaklala, located a few miles SE of the new capital city of Islamabad. The briefing was to carry out a single pass attack on briefed targets and to look out sharply for enemy Mirage III fighters on patrol, both over target and en-route.

The direct distance to Chaklala was not great, but we were going to do some tactical routing over mountainous terrain and approach from the northwest, so that the radars would not see us till very late. A few minutes into the mission, the butterflies settled down in the stomach as one concentrated on the map, compass, airspeed and stop-watch (which were all the navigational aids one had 35 years ago!). As we approached the target, it became apparent that the fog, which had bedeviled us over north India a few hours ago, was going to spoil our fun again; the sun was still low, and the slant visibility poor, but one could see tall objects and feature right below.

Anyway, we pulled up from low level to about 2000 feet by the stopwatch, and were gratified to see the murky outlines of the cross-runways of Chaklala airfield, but little else. Then a huge tower appeared out of the haze and I thought that the air traffic control would be a worthwhile target for want of anything better. A short burst from my four canon saw the tower collapsing, and as I flew over it, a huge column of water rose to greet me from the debris. Oops! A water tower! I consoled myself with the thought that the PAF would at least go thirsty tonight.

Pulling out of the dive, I desperately scanned the airfield for something more lucrative on the surprisingly bare tarmacs. Suddenly, from the corner of my eye, I spied protruding from a large mango grove, the unmistakable shape of a tall aircraft fin, and a sharply swept-up rear ramp section. A Hercules C-130 under camouflage!

With a bootful of rudder, and the stick hard over, I swung my fighter around and in a shallow dive, hosed the grove with 30 mm shells. A thin wisp of black smoke gave cause for optimism, and I thought that another pass would be necessary. My wingman2], keeping a vigilant eye for enemy combat air patrols felt that we were stretching our luck in hostile territory and made his views known.

Pulling out of the second dive, through a gap in the fog I caught a glimpse of a row of small transport aircraft lined up on the secondary runway. The sight was too tempting. Putting all thought of the Hercules out of my mind, and ignoring the multiple arcs of tracer fire, I swung around in a tight high-G turn and emptied my guns on whatever was visible of the light aircraft. By now my wingman had lost patience and was yelling on RT. We departed Chaklala at full throttle hugging the deck amidst intense antiaircraft fire, which seemed to grow by the minute.

Fate was kind, and empty guns notwithstanding; we had an uneventful return passage. We landed back safely at base, feeling elated that we had opened our account and given the enemy a dose of his own medicine. In the de-brief, I concentrated on the hidden Hercules, and other target details, with a passing mention of the light aircraft and skipped the water tower episode altogether.

That evening I heard that Radio Pakistan had complained bitterly about an IAF attack on UN aircraft but decided to ignore it as enemy propaganda. The Boss, sharp as ever, would however not let go, and for many months after the war, I had my leg pulled mercilessly about the Navy attacking "unarmed neutrals".

The Right Stuff in the Wrong Place

The 1971 war had receded into the depths of my memory when last year, I received via e-mail from a young aviation journalist, a copy of an article published in the Washington Monthly of October 1985, with the cryptic remark: "You may find this of interest!"

The article titled, "The Right Stuff in the Wrong Place", was written by Edward C. Ingraham, a (former?) US diplomat, who had served as political counselor to Ambassador Farland in Islamabad, when Brig Gen Yeager was head of the Military Assistance Advisory Group (MAAG). Since the article dwelt exclusively on Chuck Yeager, and touched upon events of the 1971 Indo-Pak war, I did find it of interest, and the reason will emerge shortly. However, at this juncture, I must emphasize that the views and opinions that I am going to quote, are entirely Ingraham's and I continue to hold Yeager in great regard for his professional skills.

"In 1971" says Ingraham, "Yeager arrived in Pakistan's shiny new capital of Islamabad to head the MAAG. Yeager's new command was a modest one: about four officers and a dozen enlisted men charged with the equally modest task of seeing that the residual trickle of American military aid was properly distributed to the Pakistanis. All the chief of the advisory group had to do was to teach Pakistanis how to use American military equipment without killing themselves in the process. The job wasn't all that difficult because the Pakistani armed forces were reasonably sophisticated."

He goes on, "One of the perks of Yeager's position was a twin-engined Beechcraft, a small airplane supplied by the Pentagon to help keep track of the occasional pieces of American military equipment that sporadically showed up in the country. Farland, however, had other designs on the plane. An ardent fisherman, he found that the Beechcraft was the ideal vehicle for transporting him to Pakistan's more remote lakes and rivers, with Yeager often piloting him to and fro."

Speaking of the worsening situation in East Pakistan, Ingraham says, "We at the Embassy were increasingly preoccupied with the deepening crisis. Meetings became more frequent and more tense. We were troubled by the complex questions that the conflict raised. No such doubts seemed to cross the mind of Chuck Yeager. I remember one occasion on which Farland asked Yeager for his assessment of how long the Pakistani forces in the East could withstand an all-out attack by India. "We could hold them off for maybe a month" he replied, "but beyond that we wouldn't have a chance without help from outside?". It took the rest of us a moment to fathom what he was saying, not realizing at first that "we" was West Pakistan, not the United States."

He continues, "The dictator of Pakistan at the time, the one who ordered the crackdown in the East, was a general named Yahya Khan. Way over his head in events he couldn't begin to understand, Yahya took increasingly to brooding and drinking. In December of 1971, with Indian supplied guerrillas applying more pressure on his beleaguered forces, Yahya decided on a last, hopeless gesture of defiance. He ordered what was left of his armed forces to attack India directly from the West. His air force roared across the border on the afternoon of December 3 to bomb Indian air bases, while his army crashed into India's defences on the Western frontier."

"It was the morning after the initial Pakistani strike that Yeager began to take the war with India personally. On the eve of their attack, the Pakistanis had been prudent enough to evacuate their planes from airfields close to the Indian border and move them back into the hinterlands. But no one thought to warn General Yeager. Thus when an Indian fighter pilot swept low over Islamabad airport in India's first retaliatory strike, he could see only two small planes on the ground. Dodging antiaircraft fire, he blasted both to smithereens with 20-millimeter (sic) canon fire. One was Yeager's Beechcraft. The other was a plane used by United Nations forces to supply the patrols that monitored the ceasefire in Kashmir."

"I never found out how the UN reacted to the destruction of its plane, but Yeager's response was anything but dispassionate. He raged to his cowering colleagues at a staff meeting. His voice resounding through the embassy, he proclaimed that the Indian pilot not only knew exactly what he was doing but had been specifically instructed by Indira Gandhi to blast Yeager's plane. In his book he later said that it was the Indian way of giving Uncle Sam "the finger" ".

Ingraham's suggestion that "To an Indian pilot skimming the ground at 500 mph under antiaircraft fire, precise identification of targets on an enemy airfield might take lower priority than simply hitting whatever was there and then getting the hell out" was met by withering scorn from Yeager.

"Our response to this Indian atrocity, as I recall," adds Ingraham (tongue firmly in cheek), "was a top priority cable to Washington that described the incident as a deliberate affront to the American nation and recommended immediate countermeasures. I don't think we ever got an answer?".

Ingraham says that Yeager's movements and activities during the subsequent conflict remained uncertain, but "A Pakistani businessman, son of a general, told me excitedly that Yeager had moved into the big air force base at Peshawar and was personally directing PAF operations against the Indians. Another swore that he had seen Yeager emerge from a just landed jet fighter at the Peshawar base."

After reading Ingraham's account, and especially after retiring from the navy, the thought has often crossed my mind that perhaps Yeager had it coming to him from Mrs. Gandhi.

And if Indira Gandhi did indeed personally order the destruction of Chuck Yeager's Beechcraft, then Nixon may have been quite justified in personally directing the Enterprise task force to sail into the Bay of Bengal as an 'immediate countermeasure'..

In which case the honours are equally shared, and I owe no apologies to anyone, except perhaps UN Secretary U Thant!

A463.jpg
An Old warrior revisited - Hunter Mk56a A463, seen at Kalaikunda in the late 90s. This aircraft was flown on the fateful day by then Lt Arun Prakash on the mission to Chaklala.
This article appeared in Vayu Aerospace and Defence Review , Issue 1/2007


@Windjammer

Jammie Bhai Something Interesting for you as you show interest in 1965 stories

Daylight Forays into Pakistan
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There was one aircrew in the Indian Air Force who could fly anywhere into Pakistan as they pleased. Whether it was Skardu or Karachi or Quetta, they would foray deep into Pakistan during day and come back with valuable intel and imagery. The crew was led by Squadron Leader 'Jaggi Nath' MVC and Bar.


Till September 5th, the IAF had not committed any other aircraft beyond the Mysteres, Vampires and Gnats at Pathankot. The Hunters had not seen any action being based entirely at Halwara and Palam. The same was not true of the Canberras.


Unknown to the Pakistanis, and even many on the Indian side, a lone Canberra PR57 was being regularly flown by an intrepid pilot over key Pakistani locations in broad daylight for photographic information. The pilot was Sqn Ldr Jag Mohan Nath, a veteran of the 1962 Ops. Nath already had a Mahavir Chakra under his belt for the daring photorecce missions he carried out over Tibet at the height of the 1962 war with China: perhaps the only operations carried out by IAF aircraft not belonging to transport or helicopter units.


In this rare wartime photograph, Wg Cdr (Then Squadron Leader) Jag Mohan "Jaggi" Nath, MVC and Bar, poses on top of a PR Canberra with various other Squadron members of No.106 Squadron.



The Canberra PR.57

The photo reconnaissance Canberra is an unqualified success with the Indian Air Force. The 106 Squadron Canberra flight (it has a flight of H.S. 748 "Avro" PR modified aircraft as well) with just five aircraft and no trainer would more often than not fly more hours than the Canberra bomber squadrons which had 16 bombers and 2 trainers.

Both in war and peace, the PR.57s and PR.67s were used for gathering intelligence and information. They took photographs of enemy installations, mapped India from coast to coast and head to toe, took photographs of ships at sea and of enemy redoubts in the high mountains. Building on the foundations set by the pioneers of 101 Sqn and 108 Sqn, 106 sqn with its PR.57s/PR.67s built a professional PR and survey organization which spanned many generations of IAF personnel.


Nath’s unit, No.106 SPR Squadron was the Air Force equivalent of “Army HQ Reserve”. They operated directly under the Chief of Air Staff, Arjan Singh and their level of briefing and mission objectives were always top secret – known only to the Chief and the pilots on the mission. To this end, Nath always had special access directly to the Chief’s office. The squadron was commanded by Wg Cdr MR Agtey and had a unit establishment of just eight aircraft (keeping in line with the U/E of PR Squadrons). However during the 1965 operations barely four Canberras were serviceable at any point of time.

Typical missions carried out before the operations broke out on Sept 1st were sorties over forward areas to photograph enemy Army formations. Photorecce sorties in a Canberra were not for the meek hearted. They had to be carried out in broad daylight at extremely low altitudes or as Nath put it, at ‘deck level”:

All my missions were done at deck level during daytime. Tree top level. 30-40 feet off the ground. Because you did not want the radar to pick you up. So it was all low-level navigation based on timing. Flying at low level limits your area of vision, making navigation much more difficult. If you had been flying at a higher altitude, you have a greater field of vision allowing you to pinpoint your position much easier on a map. So while flying at low level, your mind always has to keep up with the calculations, how many seconds it takes, how long it takes all on large scale maps. And when I felt I was somewhere in the area that I wanted to photograph, I would accelerate the Canberra to its maximum speed possible and pull up steeply to gain height to 12,000 feet, where the cameras are switched on to take the photographs.


Why 12000 feet? You may ask. The 12000 feet was the limiting factor, because of the cameras, which were meant for the high altitude aerial photography. The cameras that we were using were the 20-inch and 36-inch cameras used for high-resolution pictures. They used to give identical coverage and work as telephoto cameras. Whenever you plot it on the map, these smaller scale photographs would tally almost exactly with all the features on a similar scale map. For this camera the lowest altitude at which they would be effective is 12000 feet.


So if you were lower than stipulated, there will be incremental movement due to the forward motion of the Canberra, which would result in blurring. So the definition in the photographs will not be up to the mark. Thus it always required us to fly at a speed of 120-140knots.


So my technique was to fly low-level, pick up speed in the last moments, and then climb on to 12000 feet till such time the speed itself fell down closing to stall. The aircraft would almost be staggering.


So there was Nath, flying a huge aircraft like the Canberra at less than 50 feet altitude, climbing to 12000 feet to take pictures and then diving down to the same low-level altitude on the way back home. It was a miracle that Nath came back unscathed.


A view of a Canberra PR 57 Recce Bomber. clearly showing the oblique Camera window panes in the belly of the aircraft. The PR variant did not carry any armament.


September 5th brought a new task for Nath: to take a Canberra to the Lahore sector in the Ichogil Canal area and to take photographs along the Canal. No doubt this was in preparation for the impending Indian Army move across the international border. The Army would have needed information on not only the fortifications and bridges but also on the degree of preparedness of Pakistani Army formations.

Accordingly Nath took off from Agra in his PR57 and then proceeded over to Pathankot. After crossing over from Pathankot into Pakistan territory, he turned southwest to go over the Ichogil Canal area to start his filming. As was usual with his sorties, the timing and routing of the sortie were not disclosed to other Indian airbases.

As soon as the task at hand was accomplished, and as Nath turned back towards Indian territory, Nath noticed two PAF Sabres trying to get in a position to intercept him. As he was almost over Indian territory or had already crossed over, Nath called out over the R/T for help from Indian fighters.

Meanwhile, Wg Cdr Wollen was flying back in his MiG-21 to Pathankot after completing a regular ‘show of force’ sortie over the forward areas. Wollen was on landing approach when he heard Nath’s call. Though low on fuel, Wollen elected to abandon his approach and go to Nath’s aid. But his help was not needed. As Wollen approached the Canberra, the ‘Sabres’ chasing Nath turned out to be two IAF Mysteres. Since Nath’s sortie was kept secret from all formations, No.230 SU assumed Nath’s returning Canberra was a PAF B-57 and scrambled two Mysteres. With the confusion sorted out the aircraft returned to their respective bases without further excitement. But not before Wollen’s MiG flamed out due to fuel starvation as he completed his landing run and taxied back.

Nath was to carry out more daring ‘raids’ during the remaining days of the war, including a daylight mission to Quetta, right on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border and a photo recce sortie on Badin. Unsurprisingly, at the end of the war, Nath became the first IAF officer to be awarded a Bar to the Mahavir Chakra, an achievement that makes him the highest decorated living IAF officer today.



Apart from Jaggi Nath who was awarded a Bar to his MVC (i.e a second MVC Award), the Navigators who flew with Nath, G K Garud and G Railkar were both awarded the Vir Chakra. Jaggi Nath's Citation is reproduced below. Note the date effective date which was given as 1st Sept 1965.



Sqn Ldr Jag Mohan Nath 3946 GD(P) Award Date 01 Sep 65 Announced 01 Sep 65
Details :
Bar to MVC
During the Indo-Pak War 1965, Sqn Ldr Nath was again the Flight Commander with the Strategic Photo Reconnaissance Squadron flying the Canberra aircraft. He led his unit several times over the hostile territory to obtain vital information about the enemy. The unescorted missions, which were in the nature of reconnaissance, entailed flying long distances over the enemy territory and well-defended airfields and installations during day light. Sqn Ldr Nath was fully aware of the risk he was running on each of these missions. Still, he chose to undertake the risky missions himself. It was after great persuasion that he allowed his colleagues to do some risky assignments. The information gathered by him during his missions proved vitally important to Indian air effort. The missions enabled our Air Force to attack vital enemy targets and this adversely affected enemy's war effort. Sqn Ldr Nath was awarded Bar to Mahavir Chakra for displaying courage, determination and devotion to duty

Unit : 106 Squadron
Reference : Gazette of India , 12th February 1966 - No.9 - Pres/65 dated 1st January 1966
You are in denial mode so you kept your eyes closed to truth and this is why Nepal I'd sleeping out of your hands

You know what for China Pakistan bashing you Indians get crazy to forget that you are feeding Nepal and Afghanistan for just them to keep on your side now your focus on Afghanistan made Nepalis getting less focus now they are choosing China as a trade partner you put yourself in self denial role good for us
 
You are in denial mode so you kept your eyes closed to truth and this is why Nepal I'd sleeping out of your hands

You know what for China Pakistan bashing you Indians get crazy to forget that you are feeding Nepal and Afghanistan for just them to keep on your side now your focus on Afghanistan made Nepalis getting less focus now they are choosing China as a trade partner you put yourself in self denial role good for us

LOLZ, its offtopic, but the Post you just made shows how much you are living in a Denial Mode.

The relationship with Nepal with India, is out of your understanding. P.S you might even don't know that there is an open border with Nepal with India, and you don't need to carry any Passport to either Nepali or Indian to move in an unmarked boundaries. Rest Lage Raho MAMU, Sweet Dreams.
 
Hi

We saw capabilities of Indian air force and their advance aircrafts plus air defense in Iron Fist.......

Sorry to hurt your feelings, but Indian pilots are even bigger moron as they were in past.

You may have Laser guided munition, with stand off capability. But it's not of any use when a jackass is sitting in cockpit and driving that weapon.

Just like LCA "HOBS" missile missed the flare target, LGB ground target and SAMs air targets......

In Urdu there is quote

"Haathi k daant khaane ko or, dikhane ko or"

And IAF proves it very well ;)
Dear Av8er, with the technology becomes superior, still the role of the Pilot cannot be nulify, because he is still the one as the decission maker. But one thing is clear, that in the present scenario, the importance have shifted from Platform specific to Net Centric, and the one who is more netcentric, Make use of Sensor Fusion will be at the advantage. The training now speacialize the Pilot to use its platform to make use of it to the Max and the technology is the tools that helps him by taking care of many things, and taking lot of burden from it, but technology dosen't remove the work load from it, rather the technology makes the tactics more complex, that's why IAF still prefer Twin Seater MKI, with two pilot working in the Tandem and also wanted Tandem Seat in its futuristic FGFA. Why RuAF don't prefer single seater is the mentality, where they want total control of the Ground station, a legacy of the USSR for stopping the defection of the Soviet planes to the western. Earlier on IAF too follow the Soviet Doctrine, but soon realized that the capability of the combat plane could be very well harness by the Pilot, when it its given much freedom to take decision on the condition.

P.S Though Indian Airforce have most of the combat plane of the Russian/Soviet origin, it don't follow Soviet doctrine, and that's why most of the exercise it did recently is with the Western airforce.

The HOBS coupled with HMDS is very dangerous combo, and if two adversaries are equipped with the same two capability, then the straight clash would means the mutual suicide of both the parties, therefore the switch is toward the Long range Ramjet powered BVRAAM like Meterors, AIM 120 C-9, RD-77PD.

Hope it will clear all the doubts.
 
Hi

We saw capabilities of Indian air force and their advance aircrafts plus air defense in Iron Fist.......

Sorry to hurt your feelings, but Indian pilots are even bigger moron as they were in past.

You may have Laser guided munition, with stand off capability. But it's not of any use when a jackass is sitting in cockpit and driving that weapon.

Just like LCA "HOBS" missile missed the flare target, LGB ground target and SAMs air targets......

In Urdu there is quote

"Haathi k daant khaane ko or, dikhane ko or"

And IAF proves it very well ;)

LOLZ Try harder next time with substantial matter, and take help from someone proficient.

Those are called the teething problems of the Munitions, and for the LCA, those people lay emphasis to the whether LGB lands where, are for those who gets entertain with the fireworks and do most of the clapping and later go home.
The matter important you miss in the Iron Fist, was the SWING ROLE capability of the LCA, which it is displaying in many events.

As far as HOBS Missile is concerned Python 5 for the record is the most dangerous WVR Missile in the world, the same Missile Python-3 which impresses Chinese so much that they inducted around 3000 of it and Chinese name for its TOT production is PL-8.

And the event like IRON FIST is more than sufficient to impress the people who understand the technicality, and importance rather to impress the type of people coming into the A Class category of MORON.

So next time Before opening the mouth, try to understand the Post, if not there is no harm in asking if brain could not understand.

And the topic is Mighty Chuck Yeager, so stick to the topic, and explain me what was he doing in Pakistan during 1965 and 1971 war, when PAF with the Superior Pilot Skills was more than sufficient to take on punny IAF.
 
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Those are called the teething problems of the Munitions, and for the LCA, those people lay emphasis to the whether LGB lands where, are for those who gets entertain with the fireworks and do most of the clapping and later go home.
The matter important you miss in the Iron Fist, was the SWING ROLE capability of the LCA, which it is showing for many events

Apparently you are aware of only LGB incident. Because it was published in article. If you didn't watch the drills then surely you have missed a lot. Like there were half dozen incidents of "miss" bringing utter embarrassment for Indians who keep beating their chest on paper analysis...... :lol:

And the event like IRON FIST is more than sufficient to impress the people who understand the technicality, and importance rather to impress the type of people coming into the A category of MORON.

The purpose of Drills is to show perfection in your capabilities...... where you hit your targets with precise and build up impression on your people as well as enemies. You can make people "clap" by acrobats only too.

So next time Before opening the mouth, try to understand the Post, if not there is no harm in asking if brain could not understand.

You have very poor language.
Where & how you were born?
Don't tell me you are product of some random "bus incident" in India.......
If so then I will not mind insulting remarks from you, after all it is not you to be blamed for that......
And the topic is Mighty Chuck Yeager, so stick to the topic, and explain me what was he doing in Pakistan during 1965 and 1971 war, when PAF with the Superior Pilot Skills was more than sufficient to take on punny IAF.

Collecting stocks of IAF spare parts. :wave:

LOLZ Try harder next time with substantial matter, and take help from someone proficient.

Why should I try hard ? I tried hard when discussing this matter with senior Indian members, why bother to upload pics or type lengthy comments to prove some thing to you which you will never admit in first place?

Phutt idhr se,....... :bunny:
 
You have very poor language.
Where & how you were born?
Don't tell me you are product of some random "bus incident" in India.......
If so then I will not mind insulting remarks from you, after all it is not you to be blamed for that......

This shows the Mentality of the Person. Someone Great have said that a person sees only, what around him. Therefore grow up.
 
two things

1.technology rules today and its not like what was even two decades back (PS just like compouters what was there power and capbility say in 1990s and what is there power and capacity now) so same revolution happenned in radars , avionicks 'weapons and missile tech

2.well in 1960s its was more of like an jet engined version of WW2 arial war doctroine with aircraft gun as primarry weapons so pilot skills matterred the most

but now with PESA-AESA based radar , EW - ECM suites and HMDS & 3rd gen multi seeker BVR-HOBS its more like a video game where pilots only job is to fly the fighter but the real combat is done by on board radars , avionicks and weapons ... got it ?
and today PAF doesnt have any radars, EW-ECM suites, awacs, BVR missiles. SAMs. we are still using the sabres and star fighters of 65 .
:rofl:
 
This shows the Mentality of the Person. .

Truth Hurts. Sorry to Hurt your feeling .......................

Therefore grow up.

You are using poor language from past three days. Where was your ''grow up'' thing at that time?
I deliberately mentioned that due to Ramzan I cannot answer in same tone as you are using. But you were not wise enough to see what I actually meant for.................

Someone Great have said that a person sees only, what around him.

I spend more time on Indian Forums than on Pakistani forums. This does explains your point.............
 
LOL! Having a US flag is a crime now? Frankly where I am from and what I post is none of your business. If you don't like what I post, you can go somewhere else rather than trying to create flame wars.
He is a jealous troll..just ignore him

The verdict by the legend himself. The Chuck Yeager
What would you say is one quality all great pilots possess?

Experience. I’ll tell you this: I flew with the Pakistan Air Force for three years, during the war with India, and I’d say the Pakistani pilots are the best I’ve ever flown with in my life. And it’s because they’ve got a lot of experience. That’s what makes a good pilot. The pilot with the most experience is the best. And if he’s gotten that experience in wars, he obviously has to be damn good, or else he’d be dead.
 
Technology rules boys now

Technology is a game changer - No doubt.

Ever hear of pilots with physician training (yes you read that right) along with flight training for flying F-22 Raptors? That in turn can lead to newer technological development. Crew training and the skills that complement with the technology is a significant factor.
 
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LOLZ, its offtopic, but the Post you just made shows how much you are living in a Denial Mode.

The relationship with Nepal with India, is out of your understanding. P.S you might even don't know that there is an open border with Nepal with India, and you don't need to carry any Passport to either Nepali or Indian to move in an unmarked boundaries. Rest Lage Raho MAMU, Sweet Dreams.
I know it soon it will end carpet will slip under you feet you don't even know it

Similarly said between Pak and Afghanistan but it's ending so nothing is permanent yesterday friends can be today's enemy

China already building train to Nepal with better price of goods than India no one give hell to your products to Nepal

You guys blackmailed them alot times up
 
I know it soon it will end carpet will slip under you feet you don't even know it

Similarly said between Pak and Afghanistan but it's ending so nothing is permanent yesterday friends can be today's enemy

China already building train to Nepal with better price of goods than India no one give hell to your products to Nepal

You guys blackmailed them alot times up

I can only say that you don't know the ground reality. And leave aside China, reason being Nepal is a land lock country, and most of the roads and most of the people of Nepal are close to India. Nepal being an independent country is free to build roads and resources to get goods from anywhere. But the amount of closeness with India -- Trade, people, social, language, culture, religion is too much for China to replace. Like India, in Nepal there are few sections of people who find attractive to the Communist regime, rather than democracy. Because to handle a country democratically is difficult, and even Pakistan knew it well, luckily for India, the root of democracy is embedded deep inside, and the leaders have given their best contribution, to ensure that it remains strong enough. For your sake, Nepal have chosen the Democracy, the same path which India took, and its constitution is highly influenced by Indian Constitution, rather than the path chosen by the PRC, a party which have a country named China, and a army called PLA.

There could be few things, in which Nepal and India don't agree, and there could be various things, in which both countries don't share similar views, and it should be like that, because each country should consider their own Interest on the top priority.

As far as train is considered, a quick look on the geography will be enough to burst the bubble of your fantasy. A couple of few things for your reminder.

1. There have been a train track, from India to Nepal, from the British times, but for a country like Nepal, land transport was more cheaper, and advantageous owing to the mountainous terrain, and the initial cost involved in its setup. For India, its a matter of few years, when it could concentrate to make the balance shift to India.

2. During 1962, Nepal provided 2 units of its soldier to India, and gave its resources, and land if India needs them against China.

3. A quick google, will reveal, various Nepali people contribution in the struggle of independence of India.

4. A quick google will tell, all Nepali Officers gets training with the Indian Officers in NDA.

5. A quick google will tell, the first country for the help of the Nepal, during the earth quake, were people discovered the pottato chips with Beef Masala.
 
LOL! Having a US flag is a crime now? Frankly where I am from and what I post is none of your business. If you don't like what I post, you can go somewhere else rather than trying to create flame wars.

It's not a crime. It's just dishonest. People remember this kind of thing and don't trust a word you say as a result.
 
It's not a crime. It's just dishonest. People remember this kind of thing and don't trust a word you say as a result.

Remember what kind of thing? How's having a US flag dishonest? You need to get your head out of the gutter and focus on the discussion instead of ad hominem.
 

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