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Pakistan Inadvertantly Admits That Its First Strike Capability Is Neutered:--

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There is no need to do that either, Sir. The fact that both sides have nukes makes for a stable stalemate, which is just fine. In the long run, the economy will determine what happens.

War-fighting ability is closely tied to money in the till, or cash-register. Nothing else counts, the rest including the "atmi bums" are sheer "fluff". :D

we, the members of this forum need to go a long way before we can understand and debate rationally on threads like these. seems like that posters on either side got blurry vision due to red raging steam in their eyes after reading some parts of the opening post that are merely there as an example for argument sake ....cities, people, weapons, actions etc maybe a metaphor... this is a defense forum and I expected our south Asian posters to be less tight arsed than our middle eastern .friends.

re-opened the thread in good faith

Now @Irfan Baloch; did you have our Admin in mind? The bloke is about as S.Asian as they come......... :lol:
 
Mater of fact usa did that thrash hold if state of pak has any war it will use solution to all probleums so chill yes we are also in proces to build nuke subs so chill we are still in the game no mateer how great aegis are our one babur can have them on dinner and china is also be sending its DDG 052 if these aegis make any mistake to fire a missile on war between 2 nation china will go and lUsa wont see red dragon at its back
Forget interception both Pakistan and India's nukes are mostly for showcase. It takes lot of courage and support to launch nukes. Nukes have threshold before you can even think of it. I do not see how anyone will even come close to threshold.

The only reason I dragged India is to clarify I am thinking India being any different.
O
 
War-fighting ability is closely tied to money in the till, or cash-register. Nothing else counts, the rest including the "atmi bums" are sheer "fluff". :D

"The sinews of war are infinite money." - Cicero
 
@MastanKhan 's wishlist of arms reminds me of something IK said... India just has to increase defense spending by small percentage to hurt pakistan, because pakistan will require far greater percentage of its resource to match India

Nukes are supposed to put a break on insane conventional defense spending, as even a small nuke capability is deterrence against being overrun by superior conventional force, at least that's why India went nuclear.(wrt china)
 
Hi,

I do not think that any pakistani had noticed that in the recent statements by pakistani officials---the state of pakistan has advertantly admitted that it has lost its first strike capability over indian soil.

The suggestion that we are going to use the nucs on our soil to destroy the incoming enemy force was a tantamount to admission of a failed nuc strike capability across the border.

What that means is that pakistan is now admitting that india has ABM's that will take out its nucs during flight---and the next frightening thing for pakistan is that the long range nuc tipped missiles would be taken out on the pakistani side by indian ABM capabilities.

As the hostilities will grow---the U S navy would also be deploying its Aegis class frigates in the arabian sea closer to the pakistan indian borders----. The sole purpose would be to intercept the pakistani nuc tipped missiles that could fly into india.

They could also intercept any indian nuc tipped missiles flying into pakistan----but due to the geography and geometry----all the pakistan launched missiles could be intercepted---because they would be coming in---but the indian missiles would not be---even though the american missiles try as much---because they would be going away from the launch vehicle---.

View attachment 288123

Just for reference sake---if you look at the map of pakistan and india----an aegis class cruiser off the coast of gujrat can intercept many a missiles coming into india.

The indian ABM's will cover the rest halfway above rajasthan. This is what I have been trying to explain in my last few posts---I did not want to get directly into the tactical issue---but the thing is that the U S is not going to allow pakistan to use its nucs successfully.

The U S is going to be a player in the game---whether pakistan likes it or don't. That is why I have been writing over here---there is no way out for pakistan other than gaining conventional strength.

If the generals are saying that cannot happen---then those generals need to be FIRED and those who can---need to be put incharge.

And again for that reason---I bring back the Yemen issue---. A 15--20 billion dollars cash upfront for the first year would have taken care of most of the strike capabilities of pakistan and 5 billion a year after that would have taken care of the major issues.

It would also had given air force bases to pakistan on the arab land to strike deep into the indian flank---and alongwith another extra 150 k troops to gain strength from at time of crisis---.

And again to thos who have not read my yemen strike force numbers here they are----.

Pakistan would release 50 K troops on the go---and in return it would ask saudi arabia to deploy one sqdrn of F15SA's at jacobabad---it would also ask emirate to deploy a sqdrn of BLK60 a J'abad and 2 sqdrn's of Mirage 2K9's at karachi----these would neuter any indian strike threat.

Pakistan would build a military cantonment at gwadar---a full blooded campaign would be started for new recruits---all newly retd general staff and officers be recalled to active duty.

With the funds----pakistan would purchase at least 100 J10C's or100 SU35's----around a 100 JH7B's or a 100 SU34's----.

For the navy---at least 2 to 4 latest models of 052's and the 054's---between 5000 to 8000 + tonnage range----10 + upgraded F22 frigate

For the army a build up to at least 10 divs of armor and artillery and 5 battalions of LR sams etc----and 5 divs of infantry.

Pakistan's salvation is in a conventional force---a strike force that can take out the cities around mumbai and beneath----.

Mumbai is the jewle in the crown---a destruction of mumbai would stop india from starting a war---.

We already know that karachi and lahore and multan would be destroyed---so we need to destroy what the enemy loves the most---where it would hurt the most.

Basically the time for a nuclear is over for pakistan. Nuclear wars look good to poor nations---nations who are in the recovery mode and see a light at the end of he tunnel---must refrain and find other means to counter---.

Missiles fired from southern Pakistan would fly away from a US ship positioned off Gujarat.
 
Lolz...... Today I have accurately understood the meaning of the phrase "sathya jana"... No offence to Uncle Mastan... Elderly people tend to get scared easily....
 
@MastanKhan 's wishlist of arms reminds me of something IK said... India just has to increase defense spending by small percentage to hurt pakistan, because pakistan will require far greater percentage of its resource to match India

Nukes are supposed to put a break on insane conventional defense spending, as even a small nuke capability is deterrence against being overrun by superior conventional force, at least that's why India went nuclear.(wrt china)


Hi,

It is the other way around----. We just need to keep it around 1/3rd to 1/2 the numbers for strategic weapons systems.

Missiles fired from southern Pakistan would fly away from a US ship positioned off Gujarat.


Hi,

Read my post again---from the seas to the gujrat and some portion of rajasthan---
 
Nuclear deterrence will buy you time. And, the time must be utilized to improve conventional capabilities. Just relying on becoming nuclear is not a sensible thinking. Improve and increase numbers in fighter jets, submarines, destroyers etc. Our conventional arm should be strong enough so that we dont have to go nuclear to achieve our objectives.
 
Mater of fact usa did that thrash hold if state of pak has any war it will use solution to all probleums so chill yes we are also in proces to build nuke subs so chill we are still in the game no mateer how great aegis are our one babur can have them on dinner and china is also be sending its DDG 052 if these aegis make any mistake to fire a missile on war between 2 nation china will go and lUsa wont see red dragon at its back

O
That Nukes are just expensive toy, keep dreaming.
 
@MastanKhan

Can you tell me why against China does India not do something similar to what you are suggesting Pak do for shoring up its conventional strike ability against India?

Or are you thinking that the Chinese economy is headed for a prolonged painful slowdown? Notice how US seems more confident against China now.

But in a war many things can go wrong, so no direct war will happen --- though we need to see how the asymmetry plays out --- the Modi government seems to be reorienting policies much faster compared to its tepid predecessor.
 
Hi,

Conventional means---any strikes on mumbai will have the foreigners ruuning out of the country along with all their money----the deeper and lower pakistan could reach south india---more foreign capital will escape the country.

The destruction of mumbai was just a term---just a couple of strikes on day one and the air port would be full of outgoing passengers along with their cash and belongings if they can carry them.

That is why yemen was very important for pakistan---bases in yemen and the job would have been much much easier.

If the capital and foreigners leave india one time---they are not coming back for a long time.

Janab

I am your Biggest foe...

Your few points are misleading :-
a) in a War if a Nation engages in Hitting Civilian Targets - It is a CRIME as per Geneva Convention

b) You are welcome to Mumbai to attack Defence and Port Installations but Dare you touch BSE, NSE as it will be considered as WAR crime ---SEE IMAGE OF YOUR NATION IMPACTED

No FLY Zone
c) To Hit Mumbai First you need to pass Through 800 KM "Radius" no fly Zone imposed by
(1) CV - Vikramaditya 600 km no fly Zone by Mig 29k 2 SQNs + 1 SQN of SU 30 + 1 SQN of Jag add to this 200 KM no Fly Zone imposed by Destroyer --- Mumbai is Home Base of 3 Destroyer SQNs.

(2) You can Shoot GAURI, GAZANVI etc But dare you HIT Civilian Targets and get Booked for War Crimes -- They can hit Ports -- But WHAT about S300, 400 Barak8/1 are they sitting Ducks !!

POSSIBLE CHANCE
Only Probable chance you have is China giving you a SSBN which fires SLBM --- In that Case S300/400/Barak8 -- 3Level of Defences will be there!! This will be Breach of MTCR

Note - Many Boys are not Aware ---There is Technology to track Cruse missiles (early 2000) --- No wonder 2nd Gulf War saw no more SCUDs hitting ISRAEL
1) You use GPS System Americans will pick up immediately COORDINATES ABMs are Vectored at Cruise Missile. Same Applies for GlossNass - you have no Access..
2) BEIDOU - Only chance of NO TRACKING possible if you have access to BEIDOU and your Navigation Computer in your Cruise missile digital gyroscope is capable to use the "Data-Phase"


What ever you have written on using Nukes in your OWN Land is "Very True" Not Sure from where your are Privy to Such Correct information....This is simply shocking !!
 
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Janab

I am your Biggest foe...

Your few points are misleading :-
a) in a War if a Nation engages in Hitting Civilian Targets - It is a CRIME as per Geneva Convention

b) You are welcome to Mumbai to attach Defence and Port Installations but Dare you touch BSE, NSE as it will be considered as WAR crime ---SEE IMAGE OF YOUR NATION IMPACTED

No FLY Zone
c) To Hit Mumbai First you need to pass Through 800 KM "Radius" no fly Zone imposed by
(1) CV - Vikramaditya 600 km no fly Zone by Mig 29k 2 SQNs + 1 SQN of SU 30 + 1 SQN of Jag add to this 200 KM no Fly Zone imposed by Destroyer --- Mumbai is Home Base of 3 Destroyer SQNs.

(2) You can Shoot GAURI, GAZANVI etc But dare you HIT Civilian Targets and get Booked for War Crimes -- They can hit Ports -- But WHAT about S300, 400 Barak8/1 are they sitting Ducks !!

POSSIBLE CHANCE
Only Probable chance you have is China giving you a SSBN which fires SLBM --- In that Case S300/400/Barak8 -- 3Level of Defences will be there!! This will be Breach of MTCR

Note - Many Boys are not Aware ---There is Technology to track Cruse missiles (early 2000) --- No wonder 2nd Gulf War So no more SCUDs hitting ISREL
1) You use GPS System Americans will pick up immediately COORDINATES you HAFT is Vectored at. Same Applies for GlossNass - you have no Access..
2) BEIDOU - Only chance of NO TRACKING possible if you have access to BEIDOU anf your Navigation Computer in your Cruise missile digital gyroscope is capable to use the "Data-Phase"


What ever you have written on using Nukes in your OWN Land is "Very True" Not Sure from where your are Privy to Such Correct information....This is simply shocking !!


Nice story :P

May be when war will happen we will bring Gulab Jaman to the local public
 
The best way to protect each other for being attacked by either India or Pakistan is to create a economic integration between 2 nations....If economics between 2 nation is with a range of 15-20 billion dollar, even any sane person in India and Pakistan will think twice before starting a war...
 
Janab

I am your Biggest foe...

Your few points are misleading :-
a) in a War if a Nation engages in Hitting Civilian Targets - It is a CRIME as per Geneva Convention

b) You are welcome to Mumbai to attach Defence and Port Installations but Dare you touch BSE, NSE as it will be considered as WAR crime ---SEE IMAGE OF YOUR NATION IMPACTED

No FLY Zone
c) To Hit Mumbai First you need to pass Through 800 KM "Radius" no fly Zone imposed by
(1) CV - Vikramaditya 600 km no fly Zone by Mig 29k 2 SQNs + 1 SQN of SU 30 + 1 SQN of Jag add to this 200 KM no Fly Zone imposed by Destroyer --- Mumbai is Home Base of 3 Destroyer SQNs.

(2) You can Shoot GAURI, GAZANVI etc But dare you HIT Civilian Targets and get Booked for War Crimes -- They can hit Ports -- But WHAT about S300, 400 Barak8/1 are they sitting Ducks !!

POSSIBLE CHANCE
Only Probable chance you have is China giving you a SSBN which fires SLBM --- In that Case S300/400/Barak8 -- 3Level of Defences will be there!! This will be Breach of MTCR

Note - Many Boys are not Aware ---There is Technology to track Cruse missiles (early 2000) --- No wonder 2nd Gulf War So no more SCUDs hitting ISREL
1) You use GPS System Americans will pick up immediately COORDINATES you HAFT is Vectored at. Same Applies for GlossNass - you have no Access..
2) BEIDOU - Only chance of NO TRACKING possible if you have access to BEIDOU anf your Navigation Computer in your Cruise missile digital gyroscope is capable to use the "Data-Phase"


What ever you have written on using Nukes in your OWN Land is "Very True" Not Sure from where your are Privy to Such Correct information....This is simply shocking !!

Sir,

Mumbai has many a military targets----. I have never stated to hit civilian targets.
 
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