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Watch Major General G.D. Bakshi Crying LIVE ON NEWSHOUR DEBATE


what can I say, he said it all.
@ranjeet @Levina @Abingdonboy @Mike_Brando
Pseudo seculars write against Hindus freely in the name of freedom of speech and when they get a reaction, they term them communal. Eventualy then these kind of controversies build up. But the problem is, this is exactly what pseudo seculars such as Congress want. They genuenly don't care about the progress of the nation. Most of politicians in our country know only two things, earn money and get votes to win. Mostly don't know how economy works, they don't question their party whether this policy is right or wrong. All they need is money, votes and lots of votes. Since past few months Congress is acting suspicious.
This guy never ever leaves a single incident to malign BJP. Every other video on their Youtube channel is Anti-BJP, Anti- Modi. They don't even allow likes and dislikes on their videos. So much for freedom of speech and freedom of expression.

Incitement of students for saperatism is considered freedom of speech, while raising flag on the same campus is questioned about its timing and is termed opportunitism.
 
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Most ridiculous was saying hoisting national flag will create secsseionism..I was like WTF:what:
The most disgraceful & deplorable was from Shabnam Lone( SC Lawyer) "National flag divides Hindus & Muslims".
And then the adamant insertion of "Extreme Nationalism" in the debate left me speechless & extremely dejected .....
 
Thanks for the video.
It's unfortunate that ppl who lack any gravitas (Rajdeep Sardesai and Sagarika Ghosh) are considered the torchbearers of liberals and seculars in the country. Words like secular and liberal now sound derogatory.



He is one out of the few black sheeps in kerala. I dont have to defend him.

I am not guilty of keeping quiet to his non-sense. I've ensured that galoot cogitates
I am sorry to hurt ur sentiments but u where a part of these pseudo intellectuals atleast in terms of their so called pro-minority Secularism, Anti-Male Feminism, and Branding Sangh as Extremist nuts...

its just recently u have shown some improvement ... but still at times on topics ur emotions takes your sanity ...
 
I have been following this story with great interest.

This is a very nuanced debate which every country is going to have in one form or the other in coming days.

What does it mean to be a Patriot? Is the question at the heart of matter! You can give any issue a patriotic tinge - immigration, Minority Rights, Profiling, Govt infringement on privacy, 2nd Amendment issues etc etc.

In the present scenario as far as I understand there is a concentrated effort by academicians, liberals and left wing ideologues to battle what they perceive is the centre - right agenda of neo-conservatism. Of-course all this is not the battle of pure ideologies but is heavily colored by political agendas and electoral machinations.

We Americans are as flawed a bunch of humans as anyone else but we saw what happened in the name of National Interest post 9/11. Post '07 there has been push back and now we are at a stage when every one and their grand-mother agree in hindsight that we got into a mess.

What I mean to say in conclusion - that it is good that India is actively debating this issue in their dens, newsrooms, senates and congress. The time to worry is when there is no debate and hysteria of nationalism over-rules reason and logic. That is when terrible mistakes are made with unforeseen consequences.
 
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Lallu laal.....its okay for you to call me closet Sanghi but not ok for me to call you jholachaap? Is that your version of freedom of expression?
Haha, ever wondered why @Roybot never replied to that post. Coz i am a closet sanghi myself. U took the bait ans still pondering over it. Just look at my posts in the same thread. Do i look anything like a leftists ? Sorry for pulling ur leg all this time :lol:
 
So you are reduced to a Stawman defence ? Feel free to build any amount of strawmen and demolish them and claim "Victory". There are enough fools in pdf who will applaud you.

You need to demand the portrait of Veer Savarkar taken down from the parliament of India. Since the Parliamentarians seems to think he was a great patriot and a freedom movement leader, your "opinion" kind of seems worthless :lol:

When it has been proved that Hindu Mahasabha members were also members of the Congress where is the question of their patriotism ? or denial of their fight against the british ? Why else did Bose work to remove them from the congress. He failed, since the Hindu Mahasabha members remained in the congress but it was Bose who was kicked out :cheesy:



So all this copy paste only to proclaim that Bose was a "popular leader" ? :woot: ............ has anyone suggested otherwise ? Another strawman ? old habits die hard.



So you admit that prominent leaders of the congress were members of the Hindu Mahasabha :lol:

Did you just defeat your own argument ?


Do you have a point here ? I guess not.

Congress was the political front of most colonized Indians, but that doesn't automatically mean that every Congress member or supporter was a freedom fighter who actively participated in the freedom movement, even Congress initially asked for dominion status and not complete freedom, which was one of the major point of difference with Subhash Bose, Bhagat Singh, and most other freedom fighters who went for armed movements instead of political negotiations and satyagraha. There could be individuals who were associated with Hindu Mahasabha and participated in freedom movement in some ways, armed or non-violent, but Hindu Mahasabha as an organization didn't drive any freedom movement.

it was Bose who was kicked out :cheesy:

Any credible history book will tell you that Bose resigned from the post of Congress president after getting ELECTED for a 2nd term because of the opposition of Gandhi, Bose was for armed revolution and 'purna swaraj', which were against the views of Gandhi. Bose went on to form his own party before being arrested by the British. Now, which history book you are reading?
 
Congress was the political front of most colonized Indians, but that doesn't automatically mean that every Congress member or supporter was a freedom fighter who actively participated in the freedom movement, even Congress initially asked for dominion status and not complete freedom, which was one of the major point of difference with Subhash Bose, Bhagat Singh, and most other freedom fighters who went for armed movements instead of political negotiations and satyagraha. There could be individuals who were associated with Hindu Mahasabha and participated in freedom movement in some ways, armed or non-violent, but Hindu Mahasabha as an organization didn't drive any freedom movement.

That is a foolish spin used only by political opponents and propagated by gullible fools.

Hindu Mahasabha was a reactionary force to the formation of the Muslim league that sought power for muslims. Pretty much all the founder members of Hindu Mahasabha were Freedom Fighters. Lala Lajpatrai, Lal Chand, Shadi Lal, Madan Mohan Malaviya (4 time president of congress), Savarkar, BS Moonje.

Lala Lajpatrai death
is even celebrated as Martyrs day in India :cheesy: BS Moonje was Lokmanya Tilak's Right hand man. The british jailed Savarkar for 14 years, tortured him and made him suffer Kala Pani.

Its foolish to think that an organization that was founded by Freedom Fighters for Hindu Political Empowerment did not have any other Freedom fighters or people who though like them.

Who do you think these Leaders Lead ? and Lead them to what ?

Any credible history book will tell you that Bose resigned from the post of Congress president after getting ELECTED for a 2nd term because of the opposition of Gandhi, Bose was for armed revolution and 'purna swaraj', which were against the views of Gandhi. Bose went on to form his own party before being arrested by the British. Now, which history book you are reading?

Resigned is a nice term for 'kicked out'.

Bose started the Forward block who terrorised other political opponents by attacks on fellow Indians. It was banned by the British pretty much the same way SIMI was banned.

The same british allowed the Congress so that must mean congress were british collaborates too. (Actually they were, since they were not seeking Independence)
 
I have been following this story with great interest.

This is a very nuanced debate which is every country is going to have in one form or the other in coming days.

What does it mean to be a Patriot? Is the question at the heart of matter! You can give any issue a patriotic tinge - immigration, Minority Rights, Profiling, Govt infringement on privacy, 2nd Amendment issues etc etc.

In the present scenario as far as I understand there is a concentrated effort by academicians, liberals and left wing ideologues to battle what they perceive is the centre - right agenda of neo-conservatism. Of-course all this is not the battle of pure ideologies but is heavily colored by political agendas and electoral machinations.

We Americans are as flawed a bunch of humans as anyone else but we saw what happened in the name of National Interest post 9/11. Post '07 there has been push back and now we are at a stage when every one and their grand-mother agree in hindsight that we got into a mess.

What I mean to say in conclusion - that it is good that India is actively debating this issue in their dens, newsrooms, senates and congress. The time to worry is when there is no debate and hysteria of nationalism over-rules reason and logic. That is when terrible mistakes are made with unforeseen consequences.

LOL.... this is nothing but politics by other name and means. Its the the new guard vs the old guard.

JNU used to be one of the propaganda houses of KGB back in the good old days of cold war. Millions of KGB money had flowed into JNU to create a firm support for USSR back in the days. What you are seeing now are the after effects of the cold war.

KGB's favourite methods was to target Educationalist and Journalist. One of the Journalist who worked with KGB was Nikhil Chakravartty. Nikhil Chakravartty photo today hangs in the Press Council of India :P

JNU School of Social Sciences also has a Nikhil Chakravarty Foundation and the Centre for Media Studies :D

KGB's 'most extensive intelligence' files from Mitrokhin archive open to public | world | Hindustan Times

A 2005 book based on the files by intelligence historian Christopher Andrew claimed that India during Indira Gandhi’s tenure as prime minister had been infiltrated at several levels by the KGB, prompting demands for a parliamentary inquiry by the then leader of the opposition, L K Advani.

The KGB files, reproduced by Andrew in 'The Mitrokhin Archive II', claimed that ten Indian newspapers and one press agency were on the Soviet payroll. In 1972, the KGB claimed to have planted more than 3,500 articles in Indian newspapers.

Much of the material in the archives are included in Andrew’s book, but he told HT that the files contain “lot of detail”. The files in Russian language range in time from the immediate aftermath of the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution to the eve of the Gorbachev era.

Andrew made several controversial revelations based on the files, including that suitcases of money had been sent to Indira Gandhi’s house when she was prime minister, that former railway minister L N Mishra accepted money, that KGB funded the CPI and that in the 1977 elections, 21 non-communist leaders had been financed.

Files related to India are also among the 19 boxes and thousands of papers open to the public by the Churchill Archive Centre, Churchill College, university sources said.

07_07_14-metro10.gif
The Mitrokhin Archive was described by the FBI as ‘the most complete and extensive intelligence ever received from any source’. Some experts have raised questions about the archive but the man and the archive's origins remain an enigma.

From 1972 to 1984, Major Vasiliy Mitrokhin was a senior archivist in the KGB’s foreign intelligence archive, with unlimited access to hundreds of thousands of files from a global network of spies and intelligence gathering operations.

At the same time, having grown disillusioned with the brutal oppression of the Soviet regime, he was taking secret handwritten notes of the material and smuggling them out of the building each evening.

From 1948, he worked in foreign intelligence before being assigned to the foreign intelligence archives in the KGB First Chief Directorate. From 1972 until 1982 he was in charge of the transfer of these archives from the Lubyanka in central Moscow to a new foreign intelligence HQ at Yasenevo.

Following his retirement in 1984, Mitrokhin organised much of this material geographically and, in ten volumes, typed out systematic studies of KGB operations in different parts of the world.

After his exfiltration to London, Mitrokhin continued to work on transcribing and typing his manuscript notes, producing a further 26 typed volumes

In 1992, following the collapse of the Soviet Union, he, his family and his archive were exfiltrated by the UK’s Secret Intelligence Service. He died in January 2004.

Andrew said: “The inner workings of the KGB, its foreign intelligence operations and the foreign policy of Soviet-era Russia all lie within this extraordinary collection; the scale and nature of which gives unprecedented insight into the KGB’s activities throughout much of the Cold War."
 
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I have been following this story with great interest.

This is a very nuanced debate which is every country is going to have in one form or the other in coming days.

What does it mean to be a Patriot? Is the question at the heart of matter! You can give any issue a patriotic tinge - immigration, Minority Rights, Profiling, Govt infringement on privacy, 2nd Amendment issues etc etc.

In the present scenario as far as I understand there is a concentrated effort by academicians, liberals and left wing ideologues to battle what they perceive is the centre - right agenda of neo-conservatism. Of-course all this is not the battle of pure ideologies but is heavily colored by political agendas and electoral machinations.

We Americans are as flawed a bunch of humans as anyone else but we saw what happened in the name of National Interest post 9/11. Post '07 there has been push back and now we are at a stage when every one and their grand-mother agree in hindsight that we got into a mess.

What I mean to say in conclusion - that it is good that India is actively debating this issue in their dens, newsrooms, senates and congress. The time to worry is when there is no debate and hysteria of nationalism over-rules reason and logic. That is when terrible mistakes are made with unforeseen consequences.

The way I look at it....

India is our country and the flag as a representation of our unity should be uncompromisable.
What our Idea of India is- is it a plural and multicultural state that has space of everyone (the way I look at it)
Or that India should have enforced homogeny through ascendancy of one religion, some languages etc. (the way others look at it)
is the battle of Ideas that's now playing out. Unfortunately for those who want to do the second thing, they're bound to lose. You can't walk into a country that has dozens of languages and religions and grown stronger despite that and put these stupid ideas that are proven false every day. It is now clear that you don't need uniformity or enforced patriots for a country to be united. And we don't need to be told what being a nationalist or not is.
 
The way I look at it....

India is our country and the flag as a representation of our unity should be uncompromisable.
What our Idea of India is- is it a plural and multicultural state that has space of everyone (the way I look at it)
Or that India should have enforced homogeny through ascendancy of one religion, some languages etc. (the way others look at it)
is the battle of Ideas that's now playing out. Unfortunately for those who want to do the second thing, they're bound to lose. You can't walk into a country that has dozens of languages and religions and grown stronger despite that and put these stupid ideas that are proven false every day. It is now clear that you don't need uniformity or enforced patriots for a country to be united. And we don't need to be told what being a nationalist or not is.
You know some things can be talked, debated in a civilized manner. If Tamils asked for independent state, we tell them benefits for being united or ask them what they want or talk it out. Kashmir insurgency is different. It was at peace till 90s, before the Hurriyat types infiltrated. They incite people in Kashmir, today their children incite students in college campuses and we let them in the name of freedom of speech. They have only one aim, saperatism, what are you gonna talk with them?
 
You know some things can be talked, debated in a civilized manner. If Tamils asked for independent state, we tell them benefits for being united or ask them what they want or talk it out. Kashmir insurgency is different. It was at peace till 90s, before the Hurriyat types infiltrated. They incite people in Kashmir, today their children incite students in college campuses and we let them in the name of freedom of speech. They have only one aim, saperatism, what are you gonna talk with them?

and how was punjab militancy quashed? Only through the use of anti-terror legislation? No. The first step towards integration is the people getting confidence that they have a voice. Afzal Guru might be scum but like Bhrindanwale he too has a role in this. In areas around Golden Temple many still consider him a 'saint', but do they believe that Punjab should be separate- of course not. They know that the Indian state does not discriminate or disadvantage sikhs like he claimed it would. In complex political narratives this stuff happens. This is pretty much what will happen in Kashmir too. They'll call Afzal Guru a hero but they'll still be ok to continue with India coz we don't want to disadvantage them. They'll have a voice. When you read placards like 'Thank You JNU' you got start looking at it like 'they're identifying with India'. What do you think? Lahore University will give them this?
 
When you read placards like 'Thank You JNU' you got start looking at it like 'they're identifying with India'. What do you think? Lahore University will give them this?
Ok i get your point. Force definatly can never change people for sure, i have clear stand on this. And we can't ignore them too. So to change mindset of young generation we need them to get involved in national issues without making them feel anti national on every step, but is it working? Lets not oppose them, what next?
 
Ok i get your point. Force definatly can never change people for sure, i have clear stand on this. And we can't ignore them too. So to change mindset of young generation we need them to get involved in national issues without making them feel anti national on every step, but is it working? Lets not oppose them, what next?

I'm saying people who try to sell you the snake oil of simple solutions are taking you for a ride. This too is a part of the political process. You gotta keep the boundaries really far away from central debates. To me:

- A bunch of looneys are ok. I FIRMLY believe that the number of people calling Afzal a hero are very small even within JNU. I believe that there is a BJP political agenda that aims to make it a big issue.

- I think the flag is where the red line should be- all campuses should have national flag and any asshole that says there shouldn't be can go screw themselves.

The 'emotional rabble rousing' is always counterproductive and BJP uses it a lot. Like during the rape issue- the just jumped out and said 'all rapists should be given capital punishment' . This despite the fact that they knew the real reasons why capital punishment was not given for rapists- the fear that after committing the crime the criminals might end up killing most of their victims to avoid capital punishment. Emotionally it gets people charged up, 'see we made examples of rapists'. Sounds like a simple argument that makes sense emotionally but it can have disastrous effects on ground.
 
Dont you whine of india denying you water, isolating you, killing your people using your own people in your country and you doing no jack about it ?

Isolating us ??? With CPEC coming into reality & Pak leading mediation efforts in Middle East & Afghanistan, with Americans & Afghans visiting Islamabad to meet Talib reps, with Putin visiting Pak this year to inaugurate $2.5 bln gas pipeline, with Saudis asking for military assistance in the newly formed coalition, with Iranians talking about joining CPEC & expediting IP pipeline, with Zarb-e-Azb setting precedent for other countries due to successful results...i think after all of this you guys are doing a pretty bad job at isolating us or even using your proxies !!!
 

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