Pakistan angers Afghans by suggesting Taliban share power - minister

[Zarvan]

Sir Islam teach to follow right things, no matter you die for it. Its better to die than living under Taliban rule.





So does Pakistan Taliban, You dont want Taliban for Pakistan, while happily willing to have Taliban for Afghans..

Living under shariah is better than dying for secularism and kufr living for Islam is better than dying as puppet of kufr

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

anger at Pakistan?

even Karzai himself has called the taleban "his brothers" (on the record).....the US, NATO countries -- everyone who is a stakeholder is talking about bringing talebs into the political limelight rather than isolating them and trying to defeat them (militarily not possible, as has been shown)

karzai and his aides are loonies....they are completely out of touch with reality; his mental health is questionable

 

[rubyjackass]

It's not as simple as that. If you want to make it that simple, then yes, it seems taliban are the only bad guys and deserve to kept out of government.

During the civil war, both the Northern alliance and the taliban fought amongst themselves.
Both committed heinous atrocities, it was very much an ethnic war.

The NA pretty much hijacked all the political process in Kabul post-2001, thanks to the fact that US made them equal partners and allies. The NA dissolved into political parties, parliamentarians and ministers. Drug lords and war lords began to run the country. Now which is worse? Religious extremists running the country or corrupt criminal extremists? None are fit to claim Kabul.

The current government is not the result of a valid democratic process, it was one imposed on a lot of Afghans, now those Northern alliance and anti-taliban drug/war lords are a political mafia. Propped up by who a lot of people regard as the invader.
The taliban and supporters are completely cut off from all the political processes, and they wont come to the negotiating table with Karzai because of a bitter history and the fact that Karzai's puppet masters are the real players.

That is BS. Most big heads of NA got sidelined out of the electoral process, by the people. This is just propaganda that NA has taken over the Afghan government. If the army has NA elements, why not? If the other side of the coin did not join the army whose fault is it? Most NA strongmen support Karzai(despite him being a Pashtun) because they know they cannot win the Presidency themselves. Only Pakistan and ISI keep pushing the BS that Taliban are Pashtun, while even Taliban claim that they are a pan-Islamic movement, not surprising when you see so many foreign militants among their ranks that Pakistan and Afghanistan complain about. The Uzbekhs and Arabs among the militants do not support Taliban because they are Pashtun. Only deranged brains like IK(Taliban Khan) eat their agencies' propaganda and call Taliban as the Pashtun voice.

Why not give the control of KP to Pakistani Taliban and expect Afghanistan to follow suit with their Afghan Taliban? The similarity is striking. Neither Taliban won any election.

 

[Amaa'n]

well bro thanks for aknowledging the fact that your establishment ruled afghanistan from 1994-2004 thru there proxy taliban

next thing pakistanies have a very acute love for so called martial races and 5there supweriority over other here they are in love with pashtumn majority taliban ...kindly clear that pakistanies love taliban for bieng pashtuns as thay are in big numbers in pakistan also or they support them for there valour and sharia justice or say to control afghanistan


well to your utter surprise pakistani establishment is confused as they dont have any control over its easterwhile proxy now and niether do the arabs of UAE & Saudia cause now taliban have extortion , drug trafficving and illeagel arms trade for there financial support + they have the support of locals both side of durand land as they are Pashtuns

now the thing i wanted to say was that talibannies are now more or less free from the control of ISI and arabs as they consider both of them as slaves and puppets of the evil USA and now USA also knows this thats why it is talking directli to taliban with help from there arab friends keeping pakistani establishment at bay cause what they beleave pakistani establishment is a back stabing and double crosser ally which kept the taliban alive and played a double game with US & NATO to keep the western money and wepons supply open and now they are niether giving you free wepons nor are giving you remitence for WTO + are droning your country as they dont trust you any more niether do afghanies and your easterwhile strategikk assets and proxy afghan Taliban as you like to call them ....so in short pakistabni establishment is in bad books of all the players = current afghan govt , USA/NATO & of course Taliban + pakistanies dont beleave there own establishment and a civil war is brewing all over pakistan deu to there establishments greedy , idiotik and double crossing policies


so in short pakistani establishment is cought between the devil (USA) and the deep sea(Taliban& its supporters) while trying hard to keep itself in a postition to dominate which has led to chaos and it will be best for pakistani establishment to keep of its hands from the current power shairing in afghanistan and keep away in playing its old games other wise it will bring such a great destruction to pakistan that there will be .......... khair jane do aap samjhdaar insaan ho ...good luck

I didnt ask you to write me a book on trilateral agreement I asked you very simple questions....you accused us of piggy back the ride to kabul again as we did in 80s, what benefit did we gain from it, and what benefit are we going to gain from taliban in power?......what did we gain in past?

 

[GURU DUTT]

I didnt ask you to write me a book on trilateral agreement I asked you very simple questions....you accused us of piggy back the ride to kabul again as we did in 80s, what benefit did we gain from it, and what benefit are we going to gain from taliban in power?......what did we gain in past?

well plain and sipmle u dint gain any thing rather lost every thing dear to you and still are trying like an moron to do the same mistake over and over again while expecting different result


the answer is simple what you tried to get and what you get were very differnt and thats why there is so much resntm,ent in all the paries concerened but you are not learing from your mistakes and once again are going on the same self distructing path .....good luck

 

[Edevelop]

FO defends Pakistan’s role in Afghanistan

ISLAMABAD: After having been accused by Afghanistan of pushing a power-sharing formula involving the Taliban, the Foreign Office on Monday defended Pakistan’s role in the war-torn country and said it always tried to make a positive contribution.

“Pakistan wants to see a peaceful, united, prosperous and stable Afghanistan. To that end Pakistan has been making constructive contributions,” FO spokesman Aizaz Chaudhry told Dawn.

During a meeting with Afghan Ambassador to Pakistan Umer Daudzai on Friday Foreign Affairs and National Security Adviser Sartaj Aziz had proposed a power-sharing formula involving the Taliban and other stakeholders in Afghanistan for ending the war there.

The proposal did not go down well with the Afghan government which was already critical of Pakistan’s involvement with the Taliban.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai had during a press interaction over the weekend, after his talks with visiting British Prime Minister David Cameron, lashed out at Pakistan for trying to divide Afghanistan into Taliban ‘fiefdoms’.

“For six months there have been efforts to bring fiefdoms to Afghanistan,” Mr Karzai said, adding that Islamabad was trying to get Taliban into power in “one or two” provinces.

In an interview with Reuters on Monday Afghan Deputy Foreign Minister Ershad Ahmadi disclosed that the proposal had been made by Mr Aziz at a meeting with Mr Daudzai.

According to Reuters, the proposed formula envisaged “a form of federalism and ceding power in some Afghan provinces to the Taliban”.

Pakistan has always tried to play the role of a peace broker in the Afghan conflict. Those efforts were intensified over the past year and a half which led to the setting up of Taliban’s political office in Doha to serve as a point of contact with the insurgent group.

Islamabad’s role in the process, though not fully known yet, was largely about using its clout with the Taliban to persuade them to talk to the Americans and the Karzai government. The initiative, however, soon ran into trouble with the Taliban naming the Doha office as political office of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and raising a flag.

Mr Karzai protested and the name and flag were removed by the Qatari authorities.

Intense diplomatic activity followed to salvage the process by pacifying agitated Karzai and trying to improve relations between Kabul and Islamabad.

Mr Karzai has agreed to get past the Doha office opening controversy, but his scepticism about Pakistan and the latter’s negative view of Karzai coupled with its obsession with the Taliban are preventing things from moving forward.

The ties are instead deteriorating and at a faster pace.

Afghanistan also feels offended by Pakistan’s frequent calls for an intra-Afghan dialogue. An Afghan official, speaking over phone, explained that the Afghan government believed that there was no need for intra-Afghan dialogue in the presence of an elected government and other functioning state institutions.

US Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan James Dobbins told Dawn: “Taliban desired to share power, but wanted a bigger share than what others might give them.” He thinks Pakistan enjoys significant influence over Taliban, but was not in a position to dictate terms to the insurgent group.

Pakistan and the US also differ significantly in their reading of the situation in Afghanistan. Pakistani assessment is that the Karzai administration has a nominal control over the country, while Taliban influence was growing.

The Americans to the contrary think that Afghanistan has made significant progress since the Taliban days and its people would not like to see the situation reversed. They (US) believe that Taliban may be militarily a significant force, but not a dominant one.

A Pakistani source expected status quo in reconciliation efforts to continue till US Secretary of State John Kerry’s anticipated visit to Islamabad later this month. “Much depends on talks with him (Kerry), where we will put our perspective on the table,” he said.

FO defends Pakistan?s role in Afghanistan - DAWN.COM

 

[Edevelop]

Well, same is almost true about Pakistani Taliban and its cohorts like LeJ etc.. As a matter of fact, the attacks are more frequent and impactful in Pakistan than what we see in Afghanistan.

Pakistan is waiting for NATO to leave and that is why they are not fighting aggressively. The whole point of the war is to acknowledge the people that this is Pakistan's war only, getting rid of the jihad narrative. I have heard this from a lot of Pashtuns who are familiar with the area. They remind us about Swat. They say if one of the most difficult terrains of Pakistan completes an operation 2 months long with the use of Fighter Bombers, Howitzers, and heavily equipped soldiers consistently, FATA should be even easier, considering if the same style operation occurs.

Afghanistan has a lot of problems. You just don't see because no one (media) dares to go out. There are lots of war lords who seek civil war.

NATO got out of Iraq but what is interesting is that nothing has been solved. It has in fact gone worse. Sunnis and Shias are madly killing each other. Suicide bombing occurs everyday and there is a strong separatists movement. Unlike both Afghanistan and Iraq, Pakistani people live together as a nation, at least in 95% of the country's areas

 

[Jungibaaz]

That is BS.

Here we go.

Most big heads of NA got sidelined out of the electoral process, by the people.This is just propaganda that NA has taken over the Afghan government.

Not true.

While it may seem that the Northern Alliance itself has been dissolved, doesn't exist. And only very few people in Kabul still associate themselves with it. But I'm talking about the political mafia that was formed with the Northern alliance, that includes former members who joined political parties, war lords that the NA fought along side in the 90's and also drug lords that also hold an allegiance to them.

It's best not to comment so assertively when you clearly overlook some very prominent people in Kabul.
Take Marshal Fahim, a war lord who fought in the civil war alongside the NA, today he is a former-Vice president and former defence minister, Karim Khalili was a member of the WPP, it was him who first rang the alarm bell about the taliban after which the NA was former, now he himself doesn't claim to be part of the NA anywhere, but he clearly was since the very beginning, today.. he is current vice president. Abdullah Abdullah, very high up in the NA, after the invasion, he suddenly showed up in Kabul wearing a suit, assumed power granted to him by the united states, he is former foreign minister. Yunis Qanooni became speaker of the house, he was part of the NA. Ahmad Zia Masooud brother of Ahmad Shah Massoud who is an undeniable leader of the NA later became vice president. Dostum, who aided the Northern alliance fought alongside also ran but came 3rd or 4th.

Wanna hear more? The United national front with leaders like Dostum, Fahim and Qanooni are in the opposition. However, their role in the opposition is support of the Karzai regime.

These people have become parliamentarians, ministers, ambassadors.. you name it.
I can go on much further with many more names.

Some people in the real opposition like malalai joya have claimed that the political mafia has often tried to pass bills that would grant them immunity to prosecution for war crimes committed in the past. And those bills past with an overwhelming majority, solely because they hold a vast majority of the seats.

If the army has NA elements, why not? If the other side of the coin did not join the army whose fault is it? Most NA strongmen support Karzai(despite him being a Pashtun) because they know they cannot win the Presidency themselves.

What's wrong with it? Do you have any understanding of the issue in Afghanistan and it's history?
The NA were a combatant in the civil war, responsible for heinous war crimes against the majority ethnic group.
If they run the new Afghan NATIONAL army and if one major ethnic group doesn't like them, they are bound to fail.

This is why in the ANA, Tajik and others are overrepresented and Pashtun under represented.
The NA have very little support in areas out of Kabul and the North, and their supporters are the minority.
This is yet another recipe for civil war. The US made a big mistake, while trying to oust one menace they empowered another one, and now have no choice but to embrace it's rule.

Only Pakistan and ISI keep pushing the BS that Taliban are Pashtun, while even Taliban claim that they are a pan-Islamic movement, not surprising when you see so many foreign militants among their ranks that Pakistan and Afghanistan complain about. The Uzbekhs and Arabs among the militants do not support Taliban because they are Pashtun. Only deranged brains like IK(Taliban Khan) eat their agencies' propaganda and call Taliban as the Pashtun voice.

Here we go again! Why is it do you think that the US has been unsuccessful in it's ventures in Pashtun majority areas particularly in Southern Afghanistan? The taliban have support there, from the locals. No ISI BS that you folks keep talking about. The taliban were created in this region, and they were created at the time where there was chaos and the minority held Kabul, today the same is true, the NA + allies hold Kabul and Afghanistan is still at war.

Why not give the control of KP to Pakistani Taliban and expect Afghanistan to follow suit with their Afghan Taliban? The similarity is striking. Neither Taliban won any election.

Because there is no cause for them here. The land hasn't been invaded, only left to it's own devices, they have very little support outside of North Waziristan. Plus, their cause has been trying model the taliban of Afghanistan, when in fact, the Afghan taliban continue to distance themselves from them. In Afghanistan, the cause is home grown. I reckon had the US have made it fair after 2001, made a real democratic process, the Afghan taliban would be weaker today.

So please stop BSing and denying it. We all know a political mafia has reigned since 2001 and all optomism of the democratic process people has back in 2001-2003 has been lost thanks to same old faces ruling Kabul, criminals and murders, rife corruption and still at war.

 

[Amaa'n]

well plain and sipmle u dint gain any thing rather lost every thing dear to you and still are trying like an moron to do the same mistake over and over again while expecting different result


the answer is simple what you tried to get and what you get were very differnt and thats why there is so much resntm,ent in all the paries concerened but you are not learing from your mistakes and once again are going on the same self distructing path .....good luck

No my dear you are a moron who got nothing better to say but blame everything on us with no proof.
So quit yhe rant and come.up with something better to say. Your facts are flawed with no support to it

 

[Slav Defence]

Its not just Afghanistan but Pakistan also had voiced concerns of Afghan Double Game as they r the ones protecting Mulla Radio n Co in Afghanistan.

Well said,in fact Afghanistan serves as a route for entry and exit of our worse blacklisted terrorist groups like TTP. They are also funded and provided with arms and ammunition via Afghan border.

 

[GURU DUTT]

No my dear you are a moron who got nothing better to say but blame everything on us with no proof.
So quit yhe rant and come.up with something better to say. Your facts are flawed with no support to it

he he he keep your self happy in your dream land dont worry what mistakes you did in past are not going to whiff away in tghin air and afghans as they are will never forget niether will they forgive you this taliban is just a passing phase foer them war is there cottage industry from the times unknown but pakistan was always a sufi culture where people loved simple living and musik & food so dont worry and keep abusing others for your own mistakes cause there is nothing else left for you to do till ............

 

[OrionHunter]

Karzai is an Indian puppet, his anger doesn't mean anything to us.

Everyone has puppets. Like Pakistan has Haqqani and Mullah Omar of the Taliban as puppets!

But Pakistan should beware that sometime after the American withdrawal, their Taliban puppets will chart an independent course if ever they succeed in forming a government in Kabul. They would not like to be under the thumb of any nation including Pakistan.

Unfortunately, the Pakistani Establishment thinks otherwise - that all would be hunky dory and Afghanistan would become another state of Pakistan which would be ruled by proxy by the PA/ISI.

Well, that's not going to happen. It's not only the so called Northern Alliance, but dozens of warlords fighting a proxy war on behalf of countries that want a piece of the cake - the billions of dollars in resource rich Afghanistan - from Russia, China, India, Pakistan, the Central Asian Republics, Iran, Saudi Arabia to the US of A. All this means a civil war that would rage till kingdom come.

And needless to say, the Yanks won't leave a vacuum in Afghanistan. They would be deploying at least a division worth or about 12,000 troops supported by logistics elements, training staff and spec ops teams in and around Kabul and other vulnerable areas.

So, it's not going to be a walk-in-the-park by Pakistan post 2014.

 

[Amaa'n]

he he he keep your self happy in your dream land dont worry what mistakes you did in past are not going to whiff away in tghin air and afghans as they are will never forget niether will they forgive you this taliban is just a passing phase foer them war is there cottage industry from the times unknown but pakistan was always a sufi culture where people loved simple living and musik & food so dont worry and keep abusing others for your own mistakes cause there is nothing else left for you to do till ............

it was you who got persona first , check your last post, i had to get down to that level to make my point.
coming back to your rant. Well we never ask for their forgiveness. We are just paying the price for the mistakes our fore-fathers did, and fixing their wrong doings. The only agenda of Pakistan right now is Afghan Peace, US along with Nato forces fought with these Taliban for a decade, what good did they get? nothing. we had to step in as the mess was coming to our back yard too.
Talking about afghan culture than remind me where did Talibans come from? they were raised among those people and they are the same people that is why they have been fighting with foreign invaders for decades. Its stooges like karzai and druglords who still treat the country like their own backyard. Just look at the support he gets from his own High Peace Council

 

[GURU DUTT]

it was you who got persona first , check your last post, i had to get down to that level to make my point.
coming back to your rant. Well we never ask for their forgiveness. We are just paying the price for the mistakes our fore-fathers did, and fixing their wrong doings. The only agenda of Pakistan right now is Afghan Peace, US along with Nato forces fought with these Taliban for a decade, what good did they get? nothing. we had to step in as the mess was coming to our back yard too.
Talking about afghan culture than remind me where did Talibans come from? they were raised among those people and they are the same people that is why they have been fighting with foreign invaders for decades. Its stooges like karzai and druglords who still treat the country like their own backyard. Just look at the support he gets from his own High Peace Council

fair enof but my friend things are not that simple deu to pakistani establishmenst greed for power and so called strategikk depth and as tarikh fateh if i rember carefulli said that the onli partial sucsess PA ever got was when taliban took over the afghanistan now the thing is there has been too much complications of late and there are too many parties whome all want the share of the riches once trade opens in afghanistan and the so called ancient silk route which is more like a oil route now starts so if pakistan realli wants to move on and survive it should firmli stop all kinds of support to there easter while strategikk assets as they no longer are there for a holy war rather they are there for there Mal E Ghanimat

so it will be wise to do what one kaliph i dont remeber his name who quelled his own rebel army after its job was done if PA doesnt does that and plays the same double game they played when USA came here this time around they will recieve a big big surprise and its going to be very ugli so if pakistan wants to survive it should be wise enof not to play in hands or saudia and taliban and make peace with so callaed northen allince as they will have support of both russia , west and china so its pakistan choice whether they want an easy way or a long way but one things for sure this time around it will have to make totalli different choice of what it made after the soviets left cause amerikans are way more cunning and ruthless than the soviets .....good luck

 

[Amaa'n]

fair enof but my friend things are not that simple deu to pakistani establishmenst greed for power and so called strategikk depth and as tarikh fateh if i rember carefulli said that the onli partial sucsess PA ever got was when taliban took over the afghanistan now the thing is there has been too much complications of late and there are too many parties whome all want the share of the riches once trade opens in afghanistan and the so called ancient silk route which is more like a oil route now starts so if pakistan realli wants to move on and survive it should firmli stop all kinds of support to there easter while strategikk assets as they no longer are there for a holy war rather they are there for there Mal E Ghanimat

so it will be wise to do what one kaliph i dont remeber his name who quelled his own rebel army after its job was done if PA doesnt does that and plays the same double game they played when USA came here this time around they will recieve a big big surprise and its going to be very ugli so if pakistan wants to survive it should be wise enof not to play in hands or saudia and taliban and make peace with so callaed northen allince as they will have support of both russia , west and china so its pakistan choice whether they want an easy way or a long way but one things for sure this time around it will have to make totalli different choice of what it made after the soviets left cause amerikans are way more cunning and ruthless than the soviets .....good luck

Again your facts are flawed, you took me for a very long drive and brought me back to our original question, what benefit were we plan on getting? are we planning on getting the afghanistan full of resources? my dear our leaders could not even recognize the wealth and resources of their country how could they think about Afghanistan.
It is not Pakistan who brought Taliban to Afghanistan but it was themselves who emerged among the ordinary people to find against the druglords and warlords....the so called Northern Alliance. And the only reason they are in power today is because they choose a side after 9/11 and they got rewarded for this.
So those claiming that NA is the voice of the people of afghanistan are playing a big fat joke, so why shall we negotiate with them.
and we will see who comes after who post 2014....