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Coexistence with India -II

Bang Galore

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All medieval conquerors were basically predators; they lived at the cost of the people they conquered, appropriating their resources, which naturally antagonised the subject people. Muslim rulers, after the first four caliphs, used the Islamic doctrine of Zimmitude generally to their worldly benefit.

Rulers can win their subjects’ respect, even their affection, with their wisdom and justice. After many atrocities and crimes against their Indian subjects the British were able to leave India as almost friends, and no hostility exists today between them and their former subjects because their leaders and people confessed their crimes; they agreed to leave; and they left many gifts of value like modern learning, religious tolerance, systems of governance, constitutional democracy, science and technology.

Unfortunately, unlike the colonial capitalists of Europe, our ancestors had very few benefits to offer to their Zimmis in India which could endear them to their subjects. Added to it was the religious pride of our ulema that believed in the supremacy of Islam and flaunted it without a semblance of courtesy or hesitation. This only antagonised the subject people ever more deeply and necessitated perpetual use of force to maintain Muslim rule. In order to nourish the fighting spirit of the soldiers and common Muslims, ever more pride of faith and ever deeper contempt for reason was injected into their psyche through the ulema and clergy. The principle of equal human treatment of the Muslims and non-Muslims remained alien to their rule.

The absence of positive performance was compensated with boastful pride of the ability to destroy. That is perhaps an inherited attitude when our orators in Pakistan proudly talk of what we destroyed: our ancestors destroyed Indian idols and kings followed by the recent smashing of the peaceful Buddha; recently we destroyed the Soviet Union, we have pushed America to disaster, we shall destroy India, Europe and every system of “Jahiliah”, including our own systems and people in Pakistan and Afghanistan. This mindset hardly ever asks: what did we create or build?

We, as a nation, have gradually lost all respect for science and scientists; we have substituted research with conspiracy theories; we boast of our nuclear build-up, which is again an ability to destroy, not defend, an ability stolen from heretics without learning the science that creates it. This shortcut mentality, to escape science and invention, is an expression of our lazy, self-righteous pretensions. To bury the guilt, our power hungry ulema expects us to admire a scientist, a nuclear opportunist who admires the Taliban, and hate the real scientists of the world as heretics.

It is, therefore, natural for our people with this mindset to support the monster when it destroys Pakistan and the world with the banner of Islam in its hand. Self-righteousness is the dismissal of humility; it jams our ability to objectively appreciate merit, so that the virtue and merit of others never attracts our attention. Bragging of our own virtue and merit grows louder as our record of performance dips. This dichotomy of practice and pretension paralyses judgment and kills the resolve to make amends.

Ever since Independence, our governments and army leaders propagated the easy excuse that India aspires to annex Pakistan to realise an ancient Hindu dream of “Greater India”. But was this view realistic? Is it an exclusively Hindu dream? The fact is: Muslim rulers and the ulema also desired Greater India. They had endeavored hard for centuries to rule the whole of India; many times in these seven centuries they tried to hold Afghanistan with one hand while holding Bengal with the other. Ever since 1947, our generals and leaders have tried to grab Afghanistan and hold Bengal by force. Our lions and eagles still dream to destroy Bharat and make it a Muslim colony again.

Thus, it was natural for the ancient people of the subcontinent to dream of a united India even if it was no more possible. Long before the Muslim conquerors, India had Ashoka, Kanishka and Harshwardhana who ruled large parts of India with no less glory than the Muslims did. It was hardly anything abnormal if some nostalgic sons of the soil wished to restore their past glory in their own land, while the majority did not share the dream. Hindus have lived in this land for more than 4000 years with a deep sense of belonging. On the contrary, our Muslim ancestors came 1000 years ago and did not develop a sense of belonging. They did not assimilate or integrate with the people they ruled, keeping their identity as foreigners, with loyalty to the holy lands of Arabia. The British also ruled as foreigners but they did not demand a part of India like we did; they agreed to leave India while we did not, although we declared that we were not Indians. Our self-righteousness so limits our sense of justice that what we practice with great pomp and show, seems hateful to us if others desire it.

Justice and honesty demand that facts be examined before we accept or reject a claim. The facts did not verify the claim that India aspired to annex Pakistan or a part of it. Although a limited right wing of Indian politics threatened to avenge the wrongs of history, yet that mood never dominated India. On the contrary our opinion makers and the ulema on this side of the border kept pushing up on mass level the hype to conquer Kashmir and hoist our flag over the “Red Fort”.

It is difficult in Pakistan to state the fact that India did not annex Bhutan, Nepal, Sri Lanka or another dependent country. It did not annex Bangladesh which achieved its separation from Pakistan purely with Indian Army action. The wars which we claimed as Indian aggression on our eastern border were later exposed as our own initiation. These are facts that embarrass our claims of persecution.

Coexistence with India
 
India did not annex Bhutan, Nepal, Sri Lanka or another dependent country. It did not annex Bangladesh which achieved its separation from Pakistan purely with Indian Army action.

An important point to ponder on, for all.
 
India did not annex Bhutan, Nepal, Sri Lanka or another dependent country. It did not annex Bangladesh which achieved its separation from Pakistan purely with Indian Army action.

An important point to ponder on, for all.

Junagarh,goa,mavadar,hyderabad etc........gimme a break.
 
Good points made, but does not a bigger and more powerful country have more responsibility in developing coexistence?

To solely blame Pakistan is unfair. Pakistan needs serious introspection and more than others on some aspects, but so does India.
 
Tum karo tou chamatkar ham karien tou balatkar? haha

Actually Kashmir happened before any of those. Its the other way round.

In any case those areas were under imperialists under the british Raj (except Goa, it was under portuguese) who had to leave for independence of india. That has no bearing on the assertion in the article, that deals with entities of a different status.
 
Junagarh,goa,mavadar,hyderabad etc........gimme a break.

You give me a break !

1.You say Kashmir should be part of Pakistan because Kashmir is a muslim dominated, but Hydrabad was Hindu dominated state so on what basis you are arguing that that should be part of Pakistan, where goes arguments of two nation theory ?

However, although Hyderabad had a Muslim ruling class, its Hindus outnumbered its Muslims by about eight to one.

2. Junagarh had 96% of hindu population, so again where goes arguments of Your two nation theory.

3. Goa se tumhara kya relation hai ? khamo kham main Fanne khan ban rahe ho.

4. what the hell is this Mavadar thing ? Even google shows no answer.
 
You give me a break !

1.You say Kashmir should be part of Pakistan because Kashmir is a muslim dominated, but Hydrabad was Hindu dominated state so on what basis you are arguing that that should be part of Pakistan, where goes arguments of two nation theory ?

However, although Hyderabad had a Muslim ruling class, its Hindus outnumbered its Muslims by about eight to one.

2. Junagarh had 96% of hindu population, so again where goes arguments of Your two nation theory.

3. Goa se tumhara kya relation hai ? khamo kham main Fanne khan ban rahe ho.

4. what the hell is this Mavadar thing ? Even google shows no answer.

Their state heads were muslim who refused to join india yet u invaded them and used military force.........yet when it comes to IOK u always bring in tht moronic maharaja and his "agreement" to join india? Hypocrisy at its best.:tdown:
 
You give me a break !

1.You say Kashmir should be part of Pakistan because Kashmir is a muslim dominated, but Hydrabad was Hindu dominated state so on what basis you are arguing that that should be part of Pakistan, where goes arguments of two nation theory ?

However, although Hyderabad had a Muslim ruling class, its Hindus outnumbered its Muslims by about eight to one.

2. Junagarh had 96% of hindu population, so again where goes arguments of Your two nation theory.

3. Goa se tumhara kya relation hai ? khamo kham main Fanne khan ban rahe ho.

4. what the hell is this Mavadar thing ? Even google shows no answer.


Wrong sir.

When Pakistanis say Kashmir should have been a part of the dominion of Pakistan, they get a reply that since the dogras signed an agreement to unite with India, Pakistan has no basis of such a claim.

Pakistan then says, taking this logic what about the state of Hyderabad ? Hyderabad rulers wanted to be with Pakistan and then independent, but then they got operation polo. Same with Junagadh.

And I don't know about goa, but may be some like for its beaches.
 
Their state heads were muslim who refused to join india yet u invaded them and used military force.........yet when it comes to IOK u always bring in tht moronic maharaja and his "agreement" to join india? Hypocrisy at its best.:tdown:

You better watch your back!

Pakistan army had invaded KALAT state ( major part of present Balochistan) in 1948 and forced Khan of Kalat to sign accession treaty on Gun Point.

Same thing was executed for Jammu & Kashmir ,however, under more sophisticated and disguised form i.e Tribal Invasion and under pressure Maharaja signed accession treaty with India. If your then Government took use of cool head and given persuasion and diplomacy a chance, then who knows Kashmir might be part of Pakistan today.

If anything can be called Hypocracy then you should call two nation theory , a Hypocracy. Pakistan was built for land of muslims then still had hawk-eye over Hindu dominated areas ,why ?
 
Wrong sir. When Pakistanis say Kashmir should have been a part of the dominion of Pakistan, they get a reply that since the dogras signed an agreement to unite with India, Pakistan has no basis of such a claim.
Pakistan then says, taking this logic what about the state of Hyderabad ? Hyderabad rulers wanted to be with Pakistan and then independent, but then they got operation polo. Same with Junagadh. And I don't know about goa, but may be some like for its beaches.
We won't give Kashmir. Do whatever you want. :coffee:

Stop this obsession with Kashmir. Even BD has progressed ahead of you. :lol:
 
Wrong sir.

When Pakistanis say Kashmir should have been a part of the dominion of Pakistan, they get a reply that since the dogras signed an agreement to unite with India, Pakistan has no basis of such a claim.

Pakistan then says, taking this logic what about the state of Hyderabad ? Hyderabad rulers wanted to be with Pakistan and then independent, but then they got operation polo. Same with Junagadh.

And I don't know about goa, but may be some like for its beaches.

Look dear , Pakistan was itself created by a 'great' theory called Two nation theory , Now explain on basis of this why Hydrabad and Junagarh should be part of Pakistan as both being Hindu dominated (equal or more than 90% Hindu population ) ?

Either say Your two-nation theory was wrong and Jinnah 'saab' had territorial ambitions over Hindu Majority areas OR be happy with what you got.

I assume you know what two nation theory was. It says Hindu and Muslims are two different civilization,two different culture and two different people so Hindu and Muslims dominated area must be as India and Pakistan then only peace would prevail. It was the Pakistan's official policy.Now you tell me why should Hindu dominated areas like Hydrabad or Junagarh be part of Pakistan ?
 

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