China to provide 4 new F-22P frigates to Pakistan

[araz]

What would be the delivery date for these new 4-6 Frigates from China 1 years or 2 years

If its 1 year turn around 2013 we might have a fleet of 10 brand new F22P frigates in our inventory not to shabby at all , and just few years back we were strugling to get new boats

Good things happen to honest good countries like Pakistan , because the are patient and well manered

Bhai.
If I have understood the news properly, there has been talk of 4 frigates with improvements.KSEW willpossibly build 2 while 2 will be built in China as the delivery can be quicker a d also all modifications would have to be trialled out and incorporated into the platform before they can be built in KSEW.
Araz

 

[Penguin]

Four more of an improved design, with 2 built in China and 2 in Pakistan, would signal a gradual progression in Pakistan's domestic naval shipbuilding capability. Besides the stated advantages of quick delivery and testing, China needs to keep its yards busy and earning some money too during the time of global recession ;-)

 

[S.Y.A]

Most AshM these days have a range of 150-200, some even 300 km. So, that 100 miles is not going to do you much good in as far as even that won't allow you to 'reach out and touch' the launch platforms (aircraft). But, you might have some more time to deal with incoming missiles
(that is, if you radar is good enough to detect seaskimmers at that range)

The AN/SPY-1 has a range of more than 115 miles (185 km). While sources on the one hand state the AN/SPY-1 has a range of at least 190 km = 100nm, other sources state it still has a slightly shorter horizon than the SPS-49 (Range, 3 nmi / 5.6 km to 256 nmi /474 km). So, go figure. Raytheon's AN/SPY-3, variously referred to as New Multifunction Radar, has a classified maximum range, with USN literature stating "...200NM+" i.e. similar to SPY-1

Thales APAR has a max range of about 150km against large targets in free space and does horizon search out to 75km.

The Thales (Signaal) DA08 on some of the ex RN Type 21 in PN service has a claimed range on a 2m2 target of 78-92 nm (some sources state 204 km or 110 nm) for 2 m2 target i.e. not much shorter than SPY-1! LW-08 has 145nm range. Still, there is a hugely different detection capability involved.

Info on newer 3d Thales MW08 http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA233492
Maximum free-apace, singlo-scan detection range, at 80% probability of detection
2 m2 target SW 1 32 km [i.e. AIRCRAFT]
1 m2 target SW 1 27 km
0.1 m2 target SW 3 17 km [i.e. MISSILE]
Note the effect of target surface on detection range...


China and Turkey battle for sales in Pakistani arms fair | Defense News | defensenews.com

long range SAM give more time to save the ship's butt, that is why longer range SAMs are required

 

[Arsalan]

i dont think its a case iof 4 plus 6
we have been hearing all the talks about four new frigates for quite some YEARS now and it supose that is it.
We are getting four improved F-22p, Two of these will be build in Karachi and two in China.

Now question is, what will be the improvements.
I don't think speculating VLS and stuff will do us any good. Things will only clear up once the news is matured and confirmed.

I hope it do not fades away like the U-214 and then QING subs and also Type 54 lease news!!

Best of Luck!
I hope we do go ahead and get these vessels!

 

[Umair Nawaz]

@Imran Khan,
Bro,whats in the galley of an average PN Ship? Any idea about the dishes and facilities? Does the zulfiqar class frigate contains custom built galleys to suit pakistani taste?



By the way,PN Do not operate SH 60,right bro?

why u want to send a spy in pak navy

 

[Donatello]

i dont think its a case iof 4 plus 6
we have been hearing all the talks about four new frigates for quite some YEARS now and it supose that is it.
We are getting four improved F-22p, Two of these will be build in Karachi and two in China.

Now question is, what will be the improvements.
I don't think speculating VLS and stuff will do us any good. Things will only clear up once the news is matured and confirmed.

I hope it do not fades away like the U-214 and then QING subs and also Type 54 lease news!!

Best of Luck!
I hope we do go ahead and get these vessels!

Arsalan,

The QING type submarines are still on plans and so are air-defence frigates/destroyers ( i hope so) due to the nature of changing environment in Arabian sea. However, these new 4 frigates are short gap measure as we have to retire the 30+ years old type 21s and the chances of getting Oliver Hazard from USA are extremely slim, and even if we do get them, it will take like 5-6 years to commission and upgrade them(with help of Turkey). F-22s offer some ships in short term, plus improvements are expected as they are being built now, technology is moving at face pace. But we shouldn't be expecting much.

We seriously need a proficient anti-air capability for the navy. Without proper fleet anti-air escorts, whether PN or IN, both will be toast. C802/Harpoon and Exocets are no joke.

 

[tarrar]

I think Pak Navy should had gone for 4 Type 52 rather than F 22 frigate.

 

[araz]

I think Pak Navy should had gone for 4 Type 52 rather than F 22 frigate.

Bhai.
Explain to this old fool how you are going to buy and maintain such big ships and what is your logic behind this statement
In the current environment you want ships that suit your budget and give you the capability that you need
. Also unlike planes ships need yrs to get used to and use effectively,therefore the sense in useing the same design. I think 052s are more suitable for a blue water navy and their role itself in PLAN is being debated as it is moving more towards054s rather than 052. Lastly I would find a possible attrition of an F22P a lot less demoralising than 052.
Araz

 

[Manticore]

Good things happen to honest good countries like Pakistan , because the are patient and well manered

no , its survival of the fittest ... and pakistanis are corrupt people from the labourer up to to the president

 

[Penguin]

long range SAM give more time to save the ship's butt, that is why longer range SAMs are required

... yes, provided you can also detect at sufficiently longer range. So now, you got need for a substantially larger SAM as well as more powerfull radar. The latter needs more electrical power, possiby, so now you need to increase that. Changes cascade throughout your design an before long, you end up with a much bigger ship.

You don´t need this so much if you remain within land based aircover and let the PAF deal with any airborne missiles carriers.

 

[S.Y.A]

... yes, provided you can also detect at sufficiently longer range. So now, you got need for a substantially larger SAM as well as more powerfull radar. The latter needs more electrical power, possiby, so now you need to increase that. Changes cascade throughout your design an before long, you end up with a much bigger ship.

You don´t need this so much if you remain within land based aircover and let the PAF deal with any airborne missiles carriers.

in a war scenario, I dont think Paf will be able to provide cover to PN, it will leave PN on its own just like it did in '71, so PN will have to increase its own capabilities

 

[Armstrong]

... yes, provided you can also detect at sufficiently longer range. So now, you got need for a substantially larger SAM as well as more powerfull radar. The latter needs more electrical power, possiby, so now you need to increase that. Changes cascade throughout your design an before long, you end up with a much bigger ship.

You don´t need this so much if you remain within land based aircover and let the PAF deal with any airborne missiles carriers.

Penguin, 3 noob questions :

1) Can a ship the size of an Azmat Class FAC be fitted with nothing other than a powerful radar & the power source to power it without any of the other weapons or crew quarters on board to serve as purely as something of a marine equivalent of what an AWAC would be ? Or is that beyond ludicrous to have a radar ship type thing ?

2) How much would it roughly cost to have both sufficient ground based SAM batteries & powerful radars to back it up to provide sufficient Aircover in case of war assuming that baring the subs most of our assets would be operating close by ?

3) Couldn't a sort of a hybrid between an F-22P armed with a stronger radar & another F-22P armed with a good SAM system interface with each other & work-in-tandem ? Perhaps even top it up with another F-22P having specialized anti-sub capabilities & have a 3 or 4 ship flotilla of these three configuration operating with a lone Agosta 90B and 3-4 Azmat Classes in a blockade denial mode operating close to shore ! Perhaps even having 3-4 of such flotillas in the future ! Would that make sense ?

 

[Luftwaffe]

Armstrong; Do you know about Aegis Combat System, just Google it.

You would need Frigate-Destroyer to have a successful Aegis Ship. I would look forwards to a reply from Penguin.

The complexity of the AEGIS combat system is such that the program demands special management treatment, You will need an establishment of the AEGIS shipbuilding project from the scratch. The special management treatment combined and structured hull mechanical and electrical systems, combat systems, computer programs, repair parts, personnel maintenance documentation, and tactical operation documentation into one unified organization to create the multi-mission surface combatants to have today's effective Aegis Frigates-Destroyers.

 

[tarrar]

Bhai.
Explain to this old fool how you are going to buy and maintain such big ships and what is your logic behind this statement
In the current environment you want ships that suit your budget and give you the capability that you need
. Also unlike planes ships need yrs to get used to and use effectively,therefore the sense in useing the same design. I think 052s are more suitable for a blue water navy and their role itself in PLAN is being debated as it is moving more towards054s rather than 052. Lastly I would find a possible attrition of an F22P a lot less demoralising than 052.
Araz

First of all check your language boy. Pak Navy knows better what they need to do & what they want. What I had written does not mean Pak Navy should buy it, ok boy.

 

[araz]

First of all check your language boy. Pak Navy knows better what they need to do & what they want. What I had written does not mean Pak Navy should buy it, ok boy.

Let me give it another go. It has been a long time since someone has called me a boy . Makes me feel young again!! Anyways my friend when you write something on the board it is A norm to ask a question and what I wanted to know was why you felt PN needed 052s. So let me ask you civilly again why you feel we need this ship.As to the boy bit lets leave it at that.
Araz