Why there can't be a full democracy in Iran

[Shahin Vatani]

Right...So now you are going to bring up China as an example of a prosperous non-democratic country? Please...Give US a break. When people have a taste of economic freedom they will inevitably demand, not merely ask, for political freedoms. But you are correct, that is a different issue. So for those who would criticize 'democracy' in general, and not US in particular, then give us (not US) a better (not superior) alternative. Can you do that? Else...Then politely I will tell you to either shut up and live with the misery you got or install the flawed democracy that we have today.

Do not criticize the quality of elected officials because lawmakers of every political institutions of every ideology are just as vulnerable to corruption, stupidity and incompetence like those in democracies.

Do not criticize the mechanisms of democracy like the American Electoral College or the Swiss rotating Presidency or parliamentary thresholds in proportional representation governments. They are mechanisms to try to compensate for competing political desires, minority representation or just being fair. They do not work all the time but at least their presence means democracies are trying. You have a benevolent dictatorship somewhere where the people are happy with what they got? You mean North Korea? Then install that system in Iran and see what happens.

In short, unless you have a better alternative...

OK... You want a better system then American fake democracy? I'll give you one. Take money out of politics... Set a limit on how much can be spent on a campaign and cut influence of lobbies... Open up to atleast a three party system, bring in either a true left wing party or a libertarian one that counts...

I could go deeply into detail but no point... you get the gist. Until you do these above steps your vote will continue to count for nothing and will be at the wim of the american military industrial complex... You guys are currently run neither by conservatives, liberals or libertarians... Just by war-hawk corporatists...

 

[gambit]

OK... You want a better system then American fake democracy? I'll give you one.

This just goes to show you do not know what you are talking about. Let us see...

Take money out of politics...

Nice pithy but what does that mean? Take money out and replace it with the bullet?

Set a limit on how much can be spent on a campaign...

No can do. Without bullets there is only money. Money is used to print a candidate's view on paper, pay people to distribute them, pay for radio and TV time, pay for pollster to gauge the people's opinion and feelings, and so on...

Nice things to say but utterly impractical. Not to say it infringes on a candidate's freedom of speech.

and cut influence of lobbies...

What does that mean? Citizens are somehow forbidden to form their own lobbies like the AARP who represent senior citizens? Or unions? Or the environmentalists? Or is the word 'lobbies' somehow confined to businesses and the Jooooossss?

Open up to atleast a three party system, bring in either a true left wing party or a libertarian one that counts...

The system is opened. Show me a law that says there can be only two political parties in the US. Here is something you might learn...

First-past-the-post voting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A first-past-the-post (abbreviated FPTP or FPP) election is one that is won by the candidate(s) with the most votes. The winning candidate does not necessarily receive an absolute majority of all votes cast.

The US is the FPTP system and if you have ANY real PolSci education, you would have learned that the FPTP system NATURALLY leans towards a two-party system.

It is only with Proportional Representation...

Proportional representation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Proportional representation (PR) is a concept in voting systems used to elect an assembly or council. PR means that the number of seats won by a party or group of candidates is proportionate to the number of votes received.

...Where there is a law that MANDATE the allowance of more than two political parties in government.

The US does not have that law. If a political party failed to convince enough people to come to its beliefs, it dies. It is not the responsibility of the government to save it. Nor should it be.

The Communist Party is alive and well in the US...

National conventions of the Communist Party USA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Communist Party USA has held twenty nine official conventions including nomination conventions and conventions held while the party was known as the Workers Party of America, the Workers (Communist) Party of America and the Communist Political Association. There were also a number of congresses held by the earlier, often underground, organizational predecessors of the party, including the Communist Labor Party, the United Communist Party and two groups known as the Communist Party of America.

...But the CPUSA have not been sufficiently convincing of the people to elect its own into Congress.

I guess the idea of persuasion is completely alien to you? Between money and bullets, I will chose persuasion by money any time. How about you?

I could go deeply into detail but no point... you get the gist. Until you do these above steps your vote will continue to count for nothing and will be at the wim of the american military industrial complex... You guys are currently run neither by conservatives, liberals or libertarians... Just by war-hawk corporatists...

This have nothing to do with democracy but of US.

You failed to show us (not US) on what is the better (not superior) alternative to democracy but instead launched into nothing more than a meaningless diatribe against US. No surprise there. But the reality is that if we are the target of your criticisms while you offered no alternatives to democracy, not just merely the flaws of American style democracy, it mean you really have no viable and attractive alternative AT ALL. Better wish for that Hidden Imam.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

This just goes to show you do not know what you are talking about. Let us see...


Nice pithy but what does that mean? Take money out and replace it with the bullet?


No can do. Without bullets there is only money. Money is used to print a candidate's view on paper, pay people to distribute them, pay for radio and TV time, pay for pollster to gauge the people's opinion and feelings, and so on...

Nice things to say but utterly impractical. Not to say it infringes on a candidate's freedom of speech.


What does that mean? Citizens are somehow forbidden to form their own lobbies like the AARP who represent senior citizens? Or unions? Or the environmentalists? Or is the word 'lobbies' somehow confined to businesses and the Jooooossss?


The system is opened. Show me a law that says there can be only two political parties in the US. Here is something you might learn...

First-past-the-post voting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The US is the FPTP system and if you have ANY real PolSci education, you would have learned that the FPTP system NATURALLY leans towards a two-party system.

It is only with Proportional Representation...

Proportional representation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...Where there is a law that MANDATE the allowance of more than two political parties in government.

The US does not have that law. If a political party failed to convince enough people to come to its beliefs, it dies. It is not the responsibility of the government to save it. Nor should it be.

The Communist Party is alive and well in the US...

National conventions of the Communist Party USA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...But the CPUSA have not been sufficiently convincing of the people to elect its own into Congress.

I guess the idea of persuasion is completely alien to you? Between money and bullets, I will chose persuasion by money any time. How about you?


This have nothing to do with democracy but of US.

You failed to show us (not US) on what is the better (not superior) alternative to democracy but instead launched into nothing more than a meaningless diatribe against US. No surprise there. But the reality is that if we are the target of your criticisms while you offered no alternatives to democracy, not just merely the flaws of American style democracy, it mean you really have no viable and attractive alternative AT ALL. Better wish for that Hidden Imam.

Wow... I should have known better then to try to reason with an inbred redneck... My own fault, will not happen again...

 

[gambit]

Wow... I should have known better then to try to reason with an inbred redneck... My own fault, will not happen again...

Am not a white American. But I guess what I said and posted are way over your head. That is understandable from someone used to live under a dictatorship and know nothing else but whine about US to escape his own miserable condition.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

Am not a white American. But I guess what I said and posted are way over your head. That is understandable from someone used to live under a dictatorship and know nothing else but whine about US to escape his own miserable condition.

 

[gambit]

And it looks like the idiot is not this American.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

And it looks like the idiot is not this American.

Whatever makes you happy...

 

[gambit]

It is inevitable that any so called 'discussion' about democracy would degenerate into crass criticisms of the US and not really about democracy at all. So am going to make it more relatable: If you work hard enough, you can find something wrong with a Rolls Royce, but do you have a better alternative than a Rolls?

Whatever makes you happy...

The US does. Flawed as it is. So how many Iranians are trying to get out of Iran versus Americans trying to get out of America ?

 

[Shahin Vatani]

It is inevitable that any so called 'discussion' about democracy would degenerate into crass criticisms of the US and not really about democracy at all. So am going to make it more relatable: If you work hard enough, you can find something wrong with a Rolls Royce, but do you have a better alternative than a Rolls?


The US does. Flawed as it is. So how many Iranians are trying to get out of Iran versus Americans trying to get out of America ?

Yes, heres a better alternative

 

[Surenas]

Eventually democracy will come to Iran. You can try to delay it, but the final destination is almost in sight. Simply because democracy lays in the nature of mankind. Democracy is even found among certain apes.

 

[gambit]

Yes, heres a better alternative

That is a matter of opinion. To give a better alternative than democracy mean you must prove that such a country exist where not only are the people happy but also other people are either trying to get into this better country or they are trying to make their own country into a clone of it. You failed. But like I said, any such 'discussion' about democracy inevitably turned into an ignorant critique of US. You have shown that quite well.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

That is a matter of opinion. To give a better alternative than democracy mean you must prove that such a country exist where not only are the people happy but also other people are either trying to get into this better country or they are trying to make their own country into a clone of it. You failed. But like I said, any such 'discussion' about democracy inevitably turned into an ignorant critique of US. You have shown that quite well.

I am in favour of democracy... Just not American democracy, that's what you failed to understand...

 

[Surenas]

I am in favour of democracy... Just not American democracy, that's what you failed to understand...

What is American democracy? In my opinion the Constitution of the United States is the most beautiful constitution ever written.

 

[gambit]

I am in favour of democracy... Just not American democracy, that's what you failed to understand...

No, I understand your criticisms better than you understand it yourself. American style democracy is just a variation of democratic PRACTICES and MECHANISMS. If you think ours is bad, what make you think the Swiss rotating Presidency any better? Which do you think is appropriate for Iran?

Am willing to bet that until now, you have never heard of a thing called 'First Past The Post' or 'Proportional Representation' or that the Swiss do not elect their President. So if you have not even first year PolSci, what make you think you can credibly flesh out the differences between American style democracy and 'regular' democracy?

 

[Shahin Vatani]

What is American democracy? In my opinion the Constitution of the United States is one of the most best written constitutions ever.

But they don't follow it well... The constitution is being broken all the time. Like spying on your own citizens... Killing own USA citizens without a trail or any accusation (Abdul Rahman al Awlaki)... Allowing unlimited super pacs that can flood the US people with misinformation... tampering with votes (george bush, florida 2000)

In my opinion certain European models of democracy are much, much better.

No, I understand your criticisms better than you understand it yourself. American style democracy is just a variation of democratic PRACTICES and MECHANISMS. If you think ours is bad, what make you think the Swiss rotating Presidency any better? Which do you think is appropriate for Iran?

Am willing to bet that until now, you have never heard of a thing called 'First Past The Post' or 'Proportional Representation' or that the Swiss do not elect their President. So if you have not even first year PolSci, what make you think you can credibly flesh out the differences between American style democracy and 'regular' democracy?

Fail... I know both of them... Not everyone is as ignorant as your average American, thats your mistake when you speak to an Iranian... You should now you are speaking to a highly smart race of people that will continue to clown your ignorance on this website...