New wave of well-off Pakistani women drawn to conservative Islam

[Moorkh]

first, u may not feel embarrassment but their are many (even non Muslim) who does and, I dont think so I need to explain y?

an explanation really is required. number of believers does not make something correct. any assertion needs to be backed up with reason. so please answer the question "what is embarrassing about a woman in bikini?"

On the other hand, I cant see anything embarrassing in a scarf but u may find some.
secondly, "bikini and a dress" are u serious. this can be an undergarment but cant be a dress.

a bikini is not supposed to be worn 'under' other clothes. so it does not count as undergarments. it counts as a dress. it is extremely convenient for women going for a swim or just visiting the beach. it is worn by itself. it covers the 'privates' of the woman wearing it. i dont see how it does not count as a dress.

Third, I am not forcing anybody. Majority of Muslims women are wearing this by their own will, as they know Islam instruct them to cover their body.
Now are u going to raise the question then y do we have to follow our religion?

i really dont want to get into a religious debate. however the verse that was quoted in this thread says the woman must hide her bosom and ornaments. a bikini covers precisely those. so you can say bikini is the least clothing required to dress in an islamic manner and burqa is just overkill.

it counts as force when someone keeps telling a woman that her attire is immoral and she will go to hell for wearing that dress. they might not be tying her up and putting a dress on her but hey are threatening her with eternal damnation if she doesnt fall in line. that counts as force.

 

[Moorkh]

For the pro-burqa people you guys need to stop being so ignorant nobody wants to see women walkaround naked or in mini-skirts the vast majority of Pakistani women still don't cover yet how many of them have you seen wearing mini-skirts walking down Pakistani streets it bet it's NEVER right ? but there is a difference between niqab/burqas and other Islamic coverings most people including myself are only against the bottom left.There is no problem with the other 3 I fully support any women who wants to wear them .Look at this pic and learn the difference people.

in the khimar/chadar, are the hands free? just asking cos its not clear from the picture.

 

[khanz]

in the khimar/chadar, are the hands free? just asking cos its not clear from the picture.

yes........

 

[Zarvan]

Sir, it is better if we sometimes use our common sense and don't waste our time arguing about petty issues. People can say Allah Hafiz or Khuda Hafiz, both are correct - the problem arises when some people force others to follow their own version of Islam. I still think Khada Hafiz sounds better than Allah Hafiz and I will still use the former phrase in daily life, but will not mind if others say Allah Hafiz in reply, and thereby end my little participation in this debate. Khuda Hafiz!

No Sir both are not correct we have to do what ALLAH has told us to do and ALLAH has chosen ALLAH for himself not Khuda

 

[Jango]

Quran is a basic set of principles which lays the basis of dogmatic beliefs that we call Islam. Trying to apply dogma to logic or vice versa is an invalid exercise by definition.

As I said in my post, that Quran does not give boyles law, charles law, and all those expressions. But what it gives is the basic understanding of the universe around us, and then the urge to put our brains into use to investigate the happenings around us.

 

[VCheng]

As I said in my post, that Quran does not give boyles law, charles law, and all those expressions. But what it gives is the basic understanding of the universe around us, and then the urge to put our brains into use to investigate the happenings around us.

Of course the Quran lays great stress in using our brains for understanding the universe.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

i think you have good points. but the thing is why are you changing kuda hafiz to alah hafiz. if you are changing this

Simply because, unlike what others have said, Allah doesn't mean God. Ilah is the arabic for God, Allah is the actual name of God.
Ilah in arabic is also cognate with Hebrew Eloh and if I'm right Aramaic Elah. But Allah is actually the name.

yeah head covering not face coverings what has that quote got to conservative religious women and NOT A SINGLE ONE wears a niqab or burqa they all wear hijab and or abaya.NOWHERE in the quran does it say you must cover your face or in any islamic historical texts that the early muslim women completely hid their faces

Yeah you're right, it doesn't say anywhere you have to cover your face. The only obligation is to cover your hair, and if your bald, not even that.
Some women however do like to take an extra step and cover their faces as well. That's neither Islamic nor Un-Islamic.

an explanation really is required. number of believers does not make something correct. any assertion needs to be backed up with reason. so please answer the question "what is embarrassing about a woman in bikini

What's so embarassing about a fully naked woman? Today the onlt parts people feel need to be covered up, are the Breasts and private parts. Go to many parts of Africa, tribe-women walk around with naked chests. They don't feel any shame, yet if a woman tried to walk around with naked breasts it would be condemned even in the USA. And I'm not talking about nude-beaches, I'm talking about the common street.

Point is, every society has got varying degrees of morals. Islamic societies just have more morals and different outlooks on what's shameful and what isn't.

 

[RazPaK]

I can't believe everybody is debating about burkhas and women. Wtf.

I was hoping our discussion would be going towards curing the ailments of our society.



And for morons that are saying women wear burkas due to pressure or are forced, take a look:

 

[SQ8]

So "conservative" Islam is automatically distorted because it tells women to wear the hijab? Have you ever thought that conservative Islam is just Islam which isn't "modest" Islam?

And there's conservatism.. and there is distortion.
Please refrain from being judgemental on opinion unless you actually have an inkling of what is being referred to.
There is no conservatism.. there are set of guidelines and that is that..
You can use those guidelines in a constructive way and bring harmony..
or you can use it to insert differences and create wedges.
These women do the latter... and their rich followers find it a good compensation for trying to disguise their wealth.

 

[Mav3rick]

a bikini is not supposed to be worn 'under' other clothes. so it does not count as undergarments. it counts as a dress. it is extremely convenient for women going for a swim or just visiting the beach. it is worn by itself. it covers the 'privates' of the woman wearing it. i dont see how it does not count as a dress.

Wouldn't it be even more convenient to take off the bikini as well? Hey if convenience is all that we take into account, why not turn all beaches into legal nude beaches?

The purpose of clothing is not just to hide the skin but also to hide the shape, dynamics & curves of a females body as they are designed to instigate the opposite sex. A beautiful woman in a bikini will force all kinds of impure thoughts in the minds of men who gaze upon her but the same women would draw only respect if dressed gracefully and respectfully.

 

[Mav3rick]

to the first bolded part :
why should anyone feel embarrassed by what his siter/wife chooses to wear? be it a bikini or a burqa, both are choices of clothing and wearing one or the other should not be linked to morality. there should be no embarrassment for anyone if the woman chooses to wear a bikini.

second bolded part:
its simple. whats wrong is that you are forcing the woman to wear specific things against her choices. you are taking away her freedom. this makes you as bad as the french govt when it banned the burqa. the question simply is what gives anyone vut the woman the right to choose her attire?

Would you still not care if the choice of your sister/wife is not to wear anything at all? Or would you be compelled to draw a line somewhere? Even society draws certain lines but there are no objections against those lines.......why must objections be raised on lines imposed by a religion? It's not as if we are burning the wife by tying her to her husband's pyre!

 

[vsdoc]

A beautiful woman in a bikini will force all kinds of impure thoughts in the minds of men who gaze upon her but the same women would draw only respect if dressed gracefully and respectfully.

What is your definition of respect for a woman?

Does it include rape?

Does it include incest?

Has the donning of the burqa prevented either? Especially in highly conservative burqa adopting muslim soceities.

P.S. Keep sisters/mothers/wives/daughters out of this please. Two can play the same game, and it vitiates a sensible discussion.

P.P.S. The burqa and the bikini are the two extreme ends of the spectrum. Most of us here are debating the traditionally modest and culturally congruent middle ground of the way our women have always been dressing.

 

[Mav3rick]

What is your definition of respect for a woman?

Does it include rape?

Does it include incest?

Has the donning of the burqa prevented either? Especially in highly conservative burqa adopting muslim soceities.

P.S. Keep sisters/mothers/wives/daughters out of this please. Two can play the same game, and it vitiates a sensible discussion.

Rape & Incest are non existent in true Islamic states. That's the whole idea of proper cover (Hijaab & other body covering clothing) for women, to attract respect instead of lust.

The discussion was not focussed on anyone relative however if someone is adamant to defend his sisters right to wear a bikini then I must challenge his limits as to where he draws the line and even more importantly ..... why.

 

[vsdoc]

Rape & Incest are non existent in true Islamic states.

That is simply not true.

The first few random links from a simple Google search would suffice.

I can repeat the same for Rape instead of Incest if you desire. Keeping Saudi Arabia common to both searches of course.

Silence over incidents to blame for incest prevalent in society - Arab News

Makkah police detain

Incest as a Recognized Social Issue | Crossroads Arabia

Incest common in Saudi Arabia - PinoyExchange

Unsavory Islam: The Issue of Incest in Saudi Arabia

 

[Mav3rick]

P.P.S. The burqa and the bikini are the two extreme ends of the spectrum. Most of us here are debating the traditionally modest and culturally congruent middle ground of the way our women have always been dressing.

Culturally acceptable modesty is not complimentary of modesty defined by religion, it is usually in contrast. Even in the West, a skirt/mini skirt/tank top is a culturally acceptable dress however the same dress is not worn by religious women (nuns for example).

In religion, there is no middle ground really!