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China 1992, India 2012

Who cares if you discovered the H2O or anything similar on the Moon? We are still going to launch our manned mission in the next decade, while this is only a fairy tale for India's indigenous technology right now.

and u say indians troll....

look theres no prob in china sending a manned mission...in fact its actually great to have some asian nation do that...but i have the problem with this "WHO CARES IF..." attitude.

same thing even i can say ryt??...who cares if china is ahead..v are going on our pace....who cares who cares...understood??...have a good life...never meant to degrade china...but its all about attitude...especially stupid guys like martian2
 
and u say indians troll....

look theres no prob in china sending a manned mission...in fact its actually great to have some asian nation do that...but i have the problem with this "WHO CARES IF..." attitude.

same thing even i can say ryt??...who cares if china is ahead..v are going on our pace....who cares who cares...understood??...have a good life...never meant to degrade china...but its all about attitude...especially stupid guys like martian2

I am being realistic, there will only be one at the top of the food chain, right now India cannot displace China, but can still develop and live in a world under China's influence.
 
What's the use of being ahead when you rip off every possible western product? Heck you even copied US Capitol.. Where does all your IQ disappears when you make "Pimp" Caps and the "StarFucks" coffee? Who in right state of mind can do such a stupid thing?

I would rather like you to innovate yourself then to act big loud mouths..
 
1992-China had the entire worldwide manufacturing market to itself. China grew into the space that the Americans willingly vacated.

Go back and read the BusinessWeek articles from the 1980s. Articles written by influential Americans like Alan Blinder celebrated the transfer of "sunset" industries to countries like China. Americans falsely believe they could innovate their way to massive economic growth by investing in "sunrise" industries like biotechnology.

However, the Americans failed spectacularly. Where are the drugs to cure cancer? Where are the treatments to regenerate a limb?

Unlike the Americans, China will not relinquish its commanding position in manufacturing. China has the advantages of scale, continuous R&D, government tax credits, generous subsidy programs if it chooses, a massive home market, etc.

The United States could have held onto its manufacturing sector during the 1980s and 1990s and hindered China's manufacturing rise, but they didn't. Now, China is in the driver's seat. Unless China willingly retreats from manufacturing, no country can realistically compete against China in manufacturing.

Unfortunately for India, China will not make the same mistake as the United States. I see no chance of India rising as a manufacturing power.
 
Your 2011 GDP was even less than 1.6 trillion USD, because your Rupee has depreciated so much against the USD.

Assume your 2011 GDP was 80 trillion Rupees, which is roughly equivalent to 10 trillion Yuan, but China's 2011 GDP was already 47 trillion Yuan.

Actually China's GDP is 4.7 times of India right now.

How does it matter 1.6 or 1.7

You keep on repeating this same thing thousands of times.

You had a stronger base than India during the 1990s. Even now, you are just ahead by ~10 years in GDP figures. May be you can sustain growing by 4 times every decade. We look forward to that.

China's GDP in 2003: $1.641 trillion
India's GDP in 2010: $1.729 trillion (1.6 trillion for your satisfaction)

World Bank, World Development Indicators - Google Public Data Explorer

But you are not one to understand facts and figures, are you?

You just have to parade the same BS in every post despite proven wrong every time.

Try to get what is being conveyed and not argue on petty issues(It reveals your brain size :P)
 
1992-China had the entire worldwide manufacturing market to itself. China grew into the space that the Americans willingly vacated.

Go back and read the BusinessWeek articles from the 1980s. Articles written by influential Americans like Alan Blinder celebrated the transfer of "sunset" industries to countries like China. Americans falsely believe they could innovate their way to massive economic growth by investing in "sunrise" industries like biotechnology.

However, the Americans failed spectacularly. Where are the drugs to cure cancer? Where are the treatments to regenerate a limb?

Unlike the Americans, China will not relinquish its commanding position in manufacturing. China has the advantages of scale, continuous R&D, government tax credits, generous subsidy programs if it chooses, massive home market, etc.

The United States could have held onto its manufacturing sector during the 1980s and 1990s and hindered China's manufacturing rise, but they didn't. Now, China is in the driver's seat. Unless China willingly retreats from manufacturing, no country can realistically compete against China.

Unfortunately for India, China will not make the same mistake as the United States. I see no chance of India rising as a manufacturing power.

USA uses the manfacturing base to serve for their financial & service based economy, while China will do the opposite.

Nothing is more important than the high end manufacturing sector for China.
 
Funny you say that cause India has either better or similar citiation rate than China in all those fields:lol:

i agree, our biosci sector is very weak, and those are high growth fields, which means our citation average is dragged down even lower.

however, i think we should also focus on recent years, as comparing 1996-2010 reflects more on a country's base and its degree of English ability, more than its actual science.

I've taken the liberty of looking at 2010 publication numbers and they're not in India's favor.

SJR - International Science Ranking
SJR - International Science Ranking
SJR - International Science Ranking

Chemistry: China 2.08 citations per document, Japan 2.12 citations per document, India 1.39.
Physics and Astronomy: China 1.04 citations per document, Japan 1.10 citations per document, India 0.97.
Mathematics: China 0.63, Japan 0.53!!!, India 0.56

We also lead the US in citations on statistical physics:

SJR - International Science Ranking

And we are very close in thin films, interface physics and radiation physics:

SJR - International Science Ranking

SJR - International Science Ranking

SJR - International Science Ranking

---------- Post added at 01:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 PM ----------

What's the use of being ahead when you rip off every possible western product? Heck you even copied US Capitol.. Where does all your IQ disappears when you make "Pimp" Caps and the "StarFucks" coffee? Who in right state of mind can do such a stupid thing?

I would rather like you to innovate yourself then to act big loud mouths..

I would spend hundreds of dollars buying a Pimp cap and drinking from a StarFucks cup. That's called style and the will to be different, something that many in the developing world unfortunately do not have access to.
 
USA uses the manfacturing base to serve for their financial & service based economy, while China will do the opposite.

Nothing is more important than the high end manufacturing sector for China.

Name one single high end product that Chinese manufacturing sector has developed on its own..
 
You keep on repeating this same thing thousands of times.

You had a stronger base than India during the 1990s. Even now, you are just ahead by ~10 years in GDP figures. May be you can sustain growing by 4 times every decade. We look forward to that.

But you are not one to understand facts and figures, are you?

You just have to parade the same BS in every post despite proven wrong every time.

You do know that the value of money changes over time right? :lol:

100 dollars in 2003 are not worth the same as 100 dollars in 2010, not by a long shot.

Even now, you are just ahead by ~10 years in GDP figures.

And that gap is widening. To illustrate, see my previous post about how the ratio of Chinese GDP to Indian GDP changed from 1990-2010.

If you think that we can not sustain our growth for much longer, I would disagree, and say that such a thing applies much more to India than it does to China. The difference is that we already had three decades of double-digit growth, while India has not even entered the sustained double-digit growth race in the first place.
 
I am sorry you are distressed by the truth. China launches 5,000kg modern communications satellites. India launches high-school projects that together weigh a few hundred kilograms.

Indians satellites are not the same as a modern Chinese DFH-4 satellite.

The satellite launches are not comparable. The Chinese rocket sent a 5,000kg payload into space. Your Indian rocket only sent 824kg into space. An Indian launch does not measure up to Chinese standards.

The Chinese are proud of doing now what the real innovative countries did 5 decades back.

India will get to the bridge when it needs to. There is a time and place for all things depending on the competing proprieties and resources available.

1992-China had the entire worldwide manufacturing market to itself. China grew into the space that the Americans willingly vacated.

Go back and read the BusinessWeek articles from the 1980s. Articles written by influential Americans like Alan Blinder celebrated the transfer of "sunset" industries to countries like China. Americans falsely believe they could innovate their way to massive economic growth by investing in "sunrise" industries like biotechnology.

However, the Americans failed spectacularly. Where are the drugs to cure cancer? Where are the treatments to regenerate a limb?

Unlike the Americans, China will not relinquish its commanding position in manufacturing. China has the advantages of scale, continuous R&D, government tax credits, generous subsidy programs if it chooses, a massive home market, etc.

The United States could have held onto its manufacturing sector during the 1980s and 1990s and hindered China's manufacturing rise, but they didn't. Now, China is in the driver's seat. Unless China willingly retreats from manufacturing, no country can realistically compete against China in manufacturing.

Unfortunately for India, China will not make the same mistake as the United States. I see no chance of India rising as a manufacturing power.

You won't get to decide it.

Right now, you are happy adding $1 value to each IPad with an army of millions of workers working with a tea and biscuit at the dead of night, while Apple makes hundreds of dollars on the same Ipads and Iphones.

This may change as soon as the manufacturing moved to China. There is no rocket science to manufacturing with an army of semi skilled workers using Western technology that they used to do more than 5 decades back.
 
If this were twenty years ago and 2012-India had the chance to compete against 1992-China then all bets are off. The problem is that India is twenty years too late.

China's manufacturing sector is the world's largest and worth trillions of U.S. dollars. How can India's tiny manufacturing sector compete against a Goliath? The obvious answer is India can't.

It's like saying you want to start a tiny new company and compete against General Electric in manufacturing. Everybody will burst out in laughter.

----------

Greater China beats Germany in U.S. patents again!

For 2010, Greater China (i.e. China, Taiwan, and Hong Kong) maintained its lead over Germany to retain the unofficial third-highest rank for countries that receive the most patents in the United States.

Patent Counts By Type And State/Country (01-Jan-2010 To 31-Dec-2010)

Patents granted by the United States for the year 2010.

1. U.S. 121,164 patents
2. Japan 46,978
(Greater China 13,654)
3. Germany 13,633
4. South Korea 12,508
5. Taiwan 9,635
6. Canada 5,511
7. France 5,100
8. U.K. 5,038
9. China 3,303
10. Italy 2,254
...
India 1,137
Hong Kong 716 (Patent office counts Hong Kong as a separate entity)
Singapore 633
Russian Federation 287
Malaysia 224
Brazil 219

These countries are sometimes mentioned by the media as the "next China":

South Africa 142
Mexico 115
Thailand 60
Argentina 59
Poland 56
Greece 54
Turkey 45
Philippines 40
Chile 27
Egypt 20
Ukraine 14
Indonesia 6
Vietnam 2

The world's four largest exporters for 2010 are (1) China, (2) United States, (3) Germany, and (4) Japan. Not surprisingly, the world's four largest exporters are also the world's four largest grantees of U.S. patents (e.g. United States, Japan, Greater China, and Germany).

Patents are critical in becoming a world manufacturing power and exporter, because it creates a technological barrier of entry. Patents prevent a corporation's product from becoming a commodity that competes on price alone. The higher revenues and profits, which result from a patented product, enable a company to spend more money on research and development.

This is a self-reinforcing cycle. The United States, Greater China, Japan, and Germany continue to grow richer from their patented export products. The attainment of world-leading patents is the aspiration of any nation that wants to develop, grow technologically powerful, and wealthy.

Looking at the meager annual patents produced by nations touted by the media as the next China, we can see that all of those nations will probably become stuck in the "middle income trap."

"History shows that while many countries have been able to make it from low income to middle income, relatively few have carried on to high income. To make the high-income transition, countries have to specialize more in selected areas where they can achieve economies of scale and technological leadership."

From 2009 to 2010, the number of U.S. patents received by China increased by 46%. Even without Taiwan's help, the trend indicates that China will eventually become a wealthy nation. After all, China's annual number of U.S. patents already exceeds those of wealthy Italy. The only thing that China needs is time.

At a superficial glance, the patent list shows that India may be a viable emerging patent power. However, sometimes numbers lie. In my judgment, India will also be unable to escape the "middle income trap."

India's strength is in services as the world's call center. Most of India's patents are most likely in software, but the market for call centers is limited. For 20 years, "India has been unable to increase manufacturing's share of the economy, a dynamic that drove industrial revolutions in the U.S. and in other Asian countries." (See Wall Street Journal Interactive Slide for Indian Sectors at In India, Doubts Gather Over Rising Giant's Course - WSJ.com)

In conclusion, twenty years from now, the world in 2031 will look very similar to the world today. The only difference is that China will have become exponentially more influential in the future. There is no "next China." There is only one China. That's the only reasonable conclusion that we can draw from the list of the world's most powerful patent powers.

----------
[Note: These are my comments from last year on "China Claims #9 Rank In United States Patents!"]

For 2009, Greater China's 10,638 combined total patents (i.e. China's 2,270 + Taiwan's 7,781 + Hong Kong's 587) are greater than Germany's 10,353 patents. Greater China would rank third on the U.S. patent list. The patent ranks are important because they help to explain why China is the world's largest exporter and Germany is the world's second-largest exporter. Patents play an important role.

----------
[Note: These are my comments from two years ago on "Greater China outnumbers German patents."]

There are 70,000 Taiwanese companies on the Chinese Mainland. It is my guess that many Chinese exports incorporate not only Chinese patents, but also Taiwanese patents. The Taiwanese were a perennial #4 in U.S. patents received until they were passed by South Korea in 2008.

While the current number of Chinese patents appears to be insufficient to support a large high-tech export base, the combination of Greater China (i.e. Chinese, Taiwanese, and Hong Kong) patents should suffice.

Greater China's 10,370 patents (i.e. China's 1,874 + Taiwan's 7,779 + Hong Kong's 717) are greater than the number of German patents at 10,086.

U.S. Department of State - Taiwan (10/09)
"Significant migration to Taiwan from the Chinese mainland began as early as A.D. 500. ..... There are a number of small political parties, including the Taiwan .... in China, and more than 70000 Taiwan companies have operations there. .... In keeping with our one China policy, the U.S. does not support Taiwan ..."
 
The Chinese are proud of doing now what the real innovative countries did 5 decades back.

India will get to the bridge when it needs to. There is a time and place for all things depending on the competing proprieties and resources available.



You won't get to decide it.

Right now, you are happy adding $1 value to each IPad with an army of millions of workers working with a tea and biscuit at the dead of night, while Apple makes hundreds of dollars on the same Ipads and Iphones.

This may change as soon as the manufacturing moved to China. There is no rocket science to manufacturing with an army of semi skilled workers using Western technology that they used to do more than 5 decades back.

we're actually trying to force the assembly companies out by raising the minimum wage.

Only 80% of the workers bother going back because they have better deals now.

in India though, 8 year old children are grateful for the opportunity to haul dirt on a construction site because its better than being killed for being Dalit or starving.
 
You do know that the value of money changes over time right? :lol:

100 dollars in 2003 are not worth the same as 100 dollars in 2010, not by a long shot.



And that gap is widening. To illustrate, see my previous post about how the ratio of Chinese GDP to Indian GDP changed from 1990-2010.

If you think that we can not sustain our growth for much longer, I would disagree, and say that such a thing applies much more to India than it does to China. The difference is that we already had three decades of double-digit growth, while India has not even entered the sustained double-digit growth race in the first place.

That's right, even our 2011 nominal GDP is equivalent to the USA's GDP of 1996, but it doesn't mean we are as developed as the USA of 1996.

The China of 2003 was already a manufacturing giant who can indigenously produce J-10, same cannot be said for India of 2011.
 

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