Karachi Violence .. Updates & Discussion ..

[TechMan]

I will tell you that this man is nothing more then a hired assassin in uniform. He is famous for his encounters and extra judicial murders during his service (for which he has been amply rewarded), he is most famous for his involvement in the 90's operation against Mohajirs. Almost 200 policemen were directly involved in extra judicial murders and executions in fake encounters during the 90's.....only 4 of them are alive today and that too because their persistent apologies had been accepted. He is 1 of those 4!

So you accept those policemen were killed by MQM. Good.

 

[Mav3rick]

So you accept those policemen were killed by MQM. Good.

So you decided to jump into the conversation when and where it suited you, and I see you also only read what you wanted to read. But yes, I am sure MQM killed those who were involved in gruesome criminal murders of Karachiites during the 1990's. Is that not fair?

 

[ice_man]

I will tell you that this man is nothing more then a hired assassin in uniform. He is famous for his encounters and extra judicial murders during his service (for which he has been amply rewarded), he is most famous for his involvement in the 90's operation against Mohajirs. Almost 200 policemen were directly involved in extra judicial murders and executions in fake encounters during the 90's.....only 4 of them are alive today and that too because their persistent apologies had been accepted. He is 1 of those 4!

the first part of your statement well he is famous for killing saulat mirza a famous target killer of MQM when he returned from thailand! and also catching rehman dacait so he is clearly a man cleaning the streets from all criminals of all parties!

the bold part explains that MQM is a thug party my friend thank you for finally coming clean on MQM.

 

[TechMan]

So you decided to jump into the conversation when and where it suited you, and I see you also only read what you wanted to read. But yes, I am sure MQM killed those who were involved in gruesome criminal murders of Karachiites during the 1990's. Is that not fair?

I don't have "farigh" time like you to defend that Kalia who is operating his gang from London.

 

[Wadera]

1) I continue to tell you that confessions under duress cannot be trusted as anyone of us would be willing to say whatever is asked of us to avoid torture and yet you continue to post confessions. Dude, seriously, remove the blindfold of hate and learn to listen to the other side.

Dude - for a change why don't you remove the blind fold - this confession & report is done by JIT not by a local police station. So, now tell me - if this is indeed true and the guy is confessing it himself - why can't you just take it as the truth? What else you want?

2) There are many cases registered against every politician including the prime minister and president but we do not call them guilty unless they are proved to be guilty. All political parties acknowledge that cases registered against MQM were political and not factual, perhaps some cases are factual but you cannot be serious when you condemn them with all that you posted. Even today if your hose gets robbed, the local police will only harass you even more and this is the level of our security agencies because most of the time they are themselves involved in serious criminal activities so how can you trust them?

Dude instead of the long lecture give evidence. By the way - I am not defending or representing any political party BUT clearly all the evidence I have provided here shows MQM'ers are murderers .. if you have proof that negates its please provide. Otherwise, your arguments are nothing but hollow statements... I hope you realise that

3) There is an oath, a simple one. If anybody adds more to it, why would you blame the original oath? Just an example, Sunni Kalima (first) is extended by the Shia but if you consider that incorrect, can you blame the Sunni or the first Kalima? This is just to be taken as an example and not to burn me with!

No one is adding anything to the oath - as I have told you . and quoted reports of the press conference that happened where all 37 senior MQM leaders gave such oath. .. on instructions of Altaf.

So, tell me whether the MQM top brass added or not is a different discussion. My simple question is .. do you find this kind of oath taken by MQM top brass to be wrong or NOT?

 

[Najeeboollah]

the main cause of violence in Karachi is talibanisation of Karachi....people from NWFP should not be allowed to enter Karachi

 

[ice_man]

the main cause of violence in Karachi is talibanisation of Karachi....people from NWFP should not be allowed to enter Karachi

ok anything else SIR? shall we empty out karachi of all non urdu speaking next? and all punjab of non punjabis?

and let's just make 5 different countries from pakistan?

 

[Uchiha]

the main cause of violence in Karachi is talibanisation of Karachi....people from NWFP should not be allowed to enter Karachi

*Afghanistan
I think educated people should be allowed

 

[Wadera]

the main cause of violence in Karachi is talibanisation of Karachi....people from NWFP should not be allowed to enter Karachi

Have you ever been to Karachi? I guess not.

 

[Bratva]

I will tell you that this man is nothing more then a hired assassin in uniform. He is famous for his encounters and extra judicial murders during his service (for which he has been amply rewarded), he is most famous for his involvement in the 90's operation against Mohajirs. Almost 200 policemen were directly involved in extra judicial murders and executions in fake encounters during the 90's.....only 4 of them are alive today and that too because their persistent apologies had been accepted. He is 1 of those 4!

Any proof that those mohajirs were completely innocents and were not involved in violence at that time?

 

[Bratva]

So you decided to jump into the conversation when and where it suited you, and I see you also only read what you wanted to read. But yes, I am sure MQM killed those who were involved in gruesome criminal murders of Karachiites during the 1990's. Is that not fair?

Then who were responsible of target killings bori band lashay violence, lootings, Tor phor at that time if all the mohajirs were innocent? Perhaps It was Army who was doing this eh?

 

[Mav3rick]

the first part of your statement well he is famous for killing saulat mirza a famous target killer of MQM when he returned from thailand! and also catching rehman dacait so he is clearly a man cleaning the streets from all criminals of all parties!

the bold part explains that MQM is a thug party my friend thank you for finally coming clean on MQM.

I think Saulat Mirza was arrested, not murdered, but this guy is famous for murdering hundreds of Mohajirs directly or indirectly. Rehman Dakait was executed when he became too big for his boots and until that point he was under superb PPP protection, same as Najeeb in 1989-90, this is history of PPP. Clearly this police officer is a hired gun in uniform.

For the bold part, you may consider them thugs and punish them too. I will be at your side supporting you but only if you punish those first who committed all the hate crimes against Mohajirs....the ones who started it all from 1964. When you take in to account the 50 year old history of Karachi and Mohajirs, your view might be very different then what it is today....but only if you are fair in nature. If you also read up on history you will note that Sindhi's do not fight, they are not famous for fighting, rather they need Sindhi Baloch to wage their wars.

---------- Post added at 01:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 PM ----------

I don't have "farigh" time like you to defend that Kalia who is operating his gang from London.

I don't judge people on their skin colour or looks.

 

[Mav3rick]

Dude - for a change why don't you remove the blind fold - this confession & report is done by JIT not by a local police station. So, now tell me - if this is indeed true and the guy is confessing it himself - why can't you just take it as the truth? What else you want?

Dude instead of the long lecture give evidence. By the way - I am not defending or representing any political party BUT clearly all the evidence I have provided here shows MQM'ers are murderers .. if you have proof that negates its please provide. Otherwise, your arguments are nothing but hollow statements... I hope you realise that

No one is adding anything to the oath - as I have told you . and quoted reports of the press conference that happened where all 37 senior MQM leaders gave such oath. .. on instructions of Altaf.

So, tell me whether the MQM top brass added or not is a different discussion. My simple question is .. do you find this kind of oath taken by MQM top brass to be wrong or NOT?

1 - Have you read Hamood-ur-Rahman commission report that Bhutto banned? History of ISI since 1948? History of IB/NAB/FIA/CPLC/Anti Narcotics/FBR(former CBR) and many other agencies? Do you know the history of Bangladesh and atrocities your forces committed against it's own civilians? Do you know the history of Baluchistan and NWFP? Do you know about reports written by these agencies on Baluchistan and ground realities? Are you aware of executions in Baluchistan and NWFP (Bajour/Swat/Khurram agency etc.). Are you in the least bit aware of your military's past and present? You would be surprised beyond your wits if you read the reality of our military today.

This will take me off topic slightly but since we are discussing, a few months ago the Supreme Court demanded that the Karachi city govt. review their agreement with Rangers and to release them if not needed as they cost a lot more then the whole police force in Sindh. Karachi city descended into chaos starting that night, things kept going our of hand where it seemed that MQM-A was fighting ANP/PPP backed Liyari Gangs/People's Aman Committee/MQM-H/some religious parties and so on until just a few days back when not just the tenure of Rangers was extended indefinitely, they were given police powers as well. To add more to it:

a) Rangers have grabbed some of the most expensive & prime locations available in Karachi city permanently.
b) Rangers run the whole water tanker business and directly control the water hydrants and stations. This is a multi billion rupee industry in Karachi.
c) Life in the city is much more luxurious and relaxed then at the border.
d) No daily exercise or stringent service as is practice on borders or camps. Infact some of the rangers haven't exercised in years, the same as military during the 90's operation.
e) Influence over matters of interest to them.

The above are just some points to consider on the law and order situation we faced in the past few months. Think about it.

Now I did watch the video but failed to get his confession on murders allegedly committed by him.I also felt that many a times words were being forced into his mouth.

2) - You have not provided a single shred of evidence, had there be any evidence the courts would have awarded punishments already. You posted random BS confessions from 'ALLEGED' criminals. But if you simply want to say that MQM has committed murders.....I am sure they have done that a lot but every bit of it was necessary to protect Karachi and Pakistan. Look at the bigger picture, a subdued, destabilized Karachi is not good for the country.

3 - For the last time, the oath you posted is not the original oath.

4 - Please post videos of these oath and if they were indeed taken then I agree with you, I too would find them wrong.

---------- Post added at 02:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 PM ----------

Any proof that those mohajirs were completely innocents and were not involved in violence at that time?

My friend, guilty party is usually presented to the court with evidence/witnesses and then either sentenced or released by courts. They are not executed in fake encounters. Completely innocent or not, everybody deserves a fair trial......and 15k executed Karachiites would not all be criminals, right?

---------- Post added at 02:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:02 PM ----------

Then who were responsible of target killings bori band lashay violence, lootings, Tor phor at that time if all the mohajirs were innocent? Perhaps It was Army who was doing this eh?

If you hurt my family, I will hurt you back. It's simple.

 

[TechMan]

I don't judge people on their skin colour or looks.

I just stated a fact. Like some people are white, some black some brown. That's the beauty of this worl. Just like you accepted the fact that MQM is behind policemen killings.

 

[Wadera]

1 - Have you read Hamood-ur-Rahman commission report that Bhutto banned? History of ISI since 1948? History of IB/NAB/FIA/CPLC/Anti Narcotics/FBR(former CBR) and many other agencies? Do you know the history of Bangladesh and atrocities your forces committed against it's own civilians? Do you know the history of Baluchistan and NWFP? Do you know about reports written by these agencies on Baluchistan and ground realities? Are you aware of executions in Baluchistan and NWFP (Bajour/Swat/Khurram agency etc.). Are you in the least bit aware of your military's past and present? You would be surprised beyond your wits if you read the reality of our military today.

What is your point here?

This will take me off topic slightly but since we are discussing, a few months ago the Supreme Court demanded that the Karachi city govt. review their agreement with Rangers and to release them if not needed as they cost a lot more then the whole police force in Sindh. Karachi city descended into chaos starting that night, things kept going our of hand where it seemed that MQM-A was fighting ANP/PPP backed Liyari Gangs/People's Aman Committee/MQM-H/some religious parties and so on until just a few days back when not just the tenure of Rangers was extended indefinitely, they were given police powers as well. To add more to it:

a) Rangers have grabbed some of the most expensive & prime locations available in Karachi city permanently.
b) Rangers run the whole water tanker business and directly control the water hydrants and stations. This is a multi billion rupee industry in Karachi.
c) Life in the city is much more luxurious and relaxed then at the border.
d) No daily exercise or stringent service as is practice on borders or camps. Infact some of the rangers haven't exercised in years, the same as military during the 90's operation.
e) Influence over matters of interest to them.

Yes, this is off topic and again you do not provide any evidence to counter my arguments. I assume that while sitting in your lounge in Australia you have first hand knowledge of these allegations against Rangers and all MQM innocence is drooling. As always no evidence is given. My suggestion to you is to challenge the gossip that makes you reach such wild conclusions..

Also - you mentioned reading history but you don't seem to know what is the purpose of Rangers .. below is the verbatim quote from Pak Army's website about rangers:

"The lexical meaning of the word ‘Ranger’ is “Keeper of a Park”. Pakistan Rangers (Sindh) is a Force devoted to the protection and upkeep of the World’s most beautiful park of Pakistan.

Pakistan Rangers (Sindh), the custodian of Mehran Valley, are not only safeguarding 912 kilometres border with India in the Province of Sindhbut also keeping a close watch on the activities of anti-state elements round the clock; be it the metropolitan city or vast stretches of arid desert."

The above are just some points to consider on the law and order situation we faced in the past few months. Think about it.

Now I did watch the video but failed to get his confession on murders allegedly committed by him.I also felt that many a times words were being forced into his mouth.

If you watched the video - if you heard about his training by RAW in India . then isn't this treason enough?

2) - You have not provided a single shred of evidence, had there be any evidence the courts would have awarded punishments already. You posted random BS confessions from 'ALLEGED' criminals. But if you simply want to say that MQM has committed murders.....I am sure they have done that a lot but every bit of it was necessary to protect Karachi and Pakistan. Look at the bigger picture, a subdued, destabilized Karachi is not good for the country.

Now you are contradicting yourself. First line you say I did not provide a single SHRED of evidence then you continue to say that i posted a confessions. My question to you is, being a muslim , a human being and son of your father - put a hand on your heart and say that this confession and the list of criminal cases that were 'forgiven' via NRO is not evidence for you?

This is why I keep bringing the oath that MQM'ers have to take - this is the evidence that such oaths exist .. otherwise no sane person would deny this. and Saulat Mirza has been convicted by courts and awaiting death sentence. .. But then you have accepted that MQM'ers murder blatantly in cold blood to 'protect' karachi and Pakistan .. wow !! so , please tell me how murders of Hakeem Saeed, Tariq Azeem, Wali Babar and May 12 victims protected Karachi .. I am sure you have taken this oath ..

3 - For the last time, the oath you posted is not the original oath.

4 - Please post videos of these oath and if they were indeed taken then I agree with you, I too would find them wrong.

For things that I have provided your video evidence you think its not sufficient .. a persons video confession isn't enough .. for oaths I have quoted you news paper cuttings .. now you are requesting video .. when I will give you video for oaths .. you will say they are fake ..

In return you have only harped and tried unsuccessfully to question your way out of this discussion.

So, to make things easier for you - I ask you:

1. Would you only find the Oath to be wrong assuming my evidence is good enough for you? Or will you condemn the MQM top brass for taking such an oath?
2. Are you admitting that MQM have murdered people? Its good if you have agreed on this.
3. When was the last time you set foot in Pakistan? and how long were you in Pakistan? Pls be honest.
4. Do you have any business in Pakistan? Any investment / immediate family?
5. Do you provide regular funds to MQM?
6. Do you not find it wrong that MQM's Altaf is a British National leading a Pakistani party?

No harping - just simple answers will be good