PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[GriffinsRule]

I have no issues with what you have written but not all combat is at high speed and plus mach 1.
Again what have they put tVC on a f22? Clearly then the designer is wrong

Going with your original premise, does the F-22 has thrust vectoring to avoid a missile or for something completely different?

 

[Trango Towers]

Going with your original premise, does the F-22 has thrust vectoring to avoid a missile or for something completely different?

What would be different to maneuverability?

 

[HAIDER]

I have no issues with what you have written but not all combat is at high speed and plus mach 1.
Again what have they put tVC on a f22? Clearly then the designer is wrong

You are touching a totally different debate, F22 program has been abandoned a long time ago. It was an extremely expensive program after producing 100 or 122 , they stopped the production. All plane info is not on the net, we have some basic info. It is hard to discuss this plane specs. But some stealth info is available .
The F-22’s exhaust is designed to reduce rear Radar as well as IR signature’s. Thats why they changed it to a rectangle to give it more area and profile for the heat to dissipate. The engines rear is covered by fuselage projections into the rear to reduce signature from an angle in the rear side. The thrust will hit its own body if it moves to sides. The vertical a.k.a pitch direction was the only axis left to move. For the lateral direction, the pilots are trained to roll the aircraft first then pull back to achieve the same result. Hope you understand, its design

Check the engine design , if you see the difference ... this engine is built for extreme menveoribility at high speed.

And look at this one , the most famous and use in all Russian and Chinese frontline.

 

[spectregunship]

From today's FM's visit to AHQ... I think this is the first time J10 model has been shown by the ACM's side... there is also mention of PAF Modernisation Program in the official text...

 

[TNT]

I have no issues with what you have written but not all combat is at high speed and plus mach 1.
Again what have they put tVC on a f22? Clearly then the designer is wrong

The TVC on F22 is incorporated into the flight control system and the use of TVC reduces the use of control surfaces on the F22 and hence keeps the RCS low. Other than this and low speed maneuverability, TVCs are useless, infact counter productive as it has increased weight and reduces MTBO.

 

[Trango Towers]

You are touching a totally different debate, F22 program has been abandoned a long time ago. It was an extremely expensive program after producing 100 or 122 , they stopped the production. All plane info is not on the net, we have some basic info. It is hard to discuss this plane specs. But some stealth info is available .
The F-22’s exhaust is designed to reduce rear Radar as well as IR signature’s. Thats why they changed it to a rectangle to give it more area and profile for the heat to dissipate. The engines rear is covered by fuselage projections into the rear to reduce signature from an angle in the rear side. The thrust will hit its own body if it moves to sides. The vertical a.k.a pitch direction was the only axis left to move. For the lateral direction, the pilots are trained to roll the aircraft first then pull back to achieve the same result. Hope you understand, its design


View attachment 811504

Check the engine design , if you see the difference ... this engine is built for extreme menveoribility at high speed.
View attachment 811505

And look at this one , the most famous and use in all Russian and Chinese frontline.

View attachment 811506

Bro become a politicians...

I ask you your name you reply I came here in a uber and the story continues

 

[Invictus01]

You are touching a totally different debate, F22 program has been abandoned a long time ago. It was an extremely expensive program after producing 100 or 122 , they stopped the production. All plane info is not on the net, we have some basic info. It is hard to discuss this plane specs. But some stealth info is available .
The F-22’s exhaust is designed to reduce rear Radar as well as IR signature’s. Thats why they changed it to a rectangle to give it more area and profile for the heat to dissipate. The engines rear is covered by fuselage projections into the rear to reduce signature from an angle in the rear side. The thrust will hit its own body if it moves to sides. The vertical a.k.a pitch direction was the only axis left to move. For the lateral direction, the pilots are trained to roll the aircraft first then pull back to achieve the same result. Hope you understand, its design


View attachment 811504

Check the engine design , if you see the difference ... this engine is built for extreme menveoribility at high speed.
View attachment 811505

And look at this one , the most famous and use in all Russian and Chinese frontline.

View attachment 811506

No need to reply to him
He doesn't know the basic concept of BVR engagements
Neither does he have any idea how modern missles work

He thinks performing ninja moves in the air would help throw off a missile xD
That's like holding a gun to someone's head and asking him to duck when the trigger is pulled hoping for the bullet to somehow miss the brains

 

[MastanKhan]

Anyone knew the cost?

At €7.8B, Why Indian Rafale Jets Are ‘Double The Cost’ Than Egyptian Rafales?
Rafale deal controversy

Hi,

The cost or the price of the deal is meaningless.

What 99.9999% of the public would never learn about the expenses / fundings of the " BLACK PROJECTS" hidden in the overall cost of major weapons purchase deals---.

 

[The Eagle]

R u kidding me...thrust vectoring is a huge boost to avoid a missile up your tail...

Let us calculate the speed of incoming missile, air craft speed, angel, NEZ of hostile BVR, the angle needed to avoid that, any risk of stall after applying TVC, how much it will have the power to avoid the stall and so to push the bird to negate incoming BVR?

By your post I see that all the aircrafts without TVC in the world are now obsolete and redundant/sitting ducks since they don't have TVC against BVR.

In my humble opinion & limited knowledge; we have totally misunderstood/misreading the need of TVC, its operational benefits, pros & cons and above all the intended purpose.

From today's FM's visit to AHQ... I think this is the first time J10 model has been shown by the ACM's side... there is also mention of PAF Modernisation Program in the official text...View attachment 811518

Not the first time though.

 

[Trango Towers]

Let us calculate the speed of incoming missile, air craft speed, angel, NEZ of hostile BVR, the angle needed to avoid that, any risk of stall after applying TVC, how much it will have the power to avoid the stall and so to push the bird to negate incoming BVR?

By your post I see that all the aircrafts without TVC in the world are now obsolete and redundant/sitting ducks since they don't have TVC against BVR.

In my humble opinion & limited knowledge; we have totally misunderstood/misreading the need of TVC, its operational benefits, pros & cons and above all the intended purpose.

Hi.

No aircraft without TVC are not obsolete but scenarios that you present such as stall don't always happen. My point is that it's been stated that TVC is not necessary and I am saying that it has its benefits.
Additionally, the fact that f22 has TVC no one will address why? Why do the designers thing it necessary to have TVC

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

From today's FM's visit to AHQ... I think this is the first time J10 model has been shown by the ACM's side... there is also mention of PAF Modernisation Program in the official text...View attachment 811518

This is my favourite image of j10c, hopefully soon in our colours.

 

[The Eagle]

Hi.

No aircraft without TVC are not obsolete but scenarios that you present such as stall don't always happen. My point is that it's been stated that TVC is not necessary and I am saying that it has its benefits.
Additionally, the fact that f22 has TVC no one will address why? Why do the designers thing it necessary to have TVC

To start with knowledge and learning; let's see why TVC only on F-22? When & why on SU series? But why not necessary on Rafale, EFT and J-10C? If you want to learn then it is up-to you to dig for it, read, ask, have patience and no pre-mindset like I am right and I wouldn't accept anything.

F-22 in times of that decade. SUs in times of that decade. But TVC is not a requirement anymore--- at-least for 4th Gen Aircrafts. It will work fine with 5th & 6th since the bird is already off the Radar and can play such maneuvers without the risk of getting hit right at time when dealing the energy bleeding due to TVC. Check-out what Americans have to say about IAF applying TVC in red flag? It is not useful always. It has benefits but it comes with cost. That cost of energy, stall, slowing down in low speed etc have more damage/loss expectancy for 4th Gen as compare to 5th Gen aircrafts. Just look at the dealing with it---- 5th gen is not even on Radar that easily let alone having the risk of stall or slowing down while evading. Even if it is locked; the 5th Gen given the tech, design & EW can however maintain a window to scape easily.

TVC on F-22 or SUs was the requirement of that design and not everyone will release study data to make you read and so the adversary to exploit the same. F-22 role & pitch and then it's airframe and the force on its body while maneuvering sideways; that might let you understand. I think you know well about Aerospace design etc...Don't you?

J-10C a delta canard design and the existing design pretty much addresses the need of Aircraft defence & offensive maneuvering. I see that having an extra weight of TVC along with cost to maintain and that negative of recovery post TVC applied; pretty much adds to the point that such an aircraft doesn't need it since the pilot will already utilize its existing capability to build tactics & use it more freely. Not every BVR needs a TVC to evade.

 

[Trango Towers]

To start with knowledge and learning; let's see why TVC only on F-22? When & why on SU series? But why not necessary on Rafale, EFT and J-10C? If you want to learn then it is up-to you to dig for it, read, ask, have patience and no pre-mindset like I am right and I wouldn't accept anything.

F-22 in times of that decade. SUs in times of that decade. But TVC is not a requirement anymore--- at-least for 4th Gen Aircrafts. It will work fine with 5th & 6th since the bird is already off the Radar and can play such maneuvers without the risk of getting hit right at time when dealing the energy bleeding due to TVC. Check-out what Americans have to say about IAF applying TVC in red flag? It is not useful always. It has benefits but it comes with cost. That cost of energy, stall, slowing down in low speed etc have more damage/loss expectancy for 4th Gen as compare to 5th Gen aircrafts. Just look at the dealing with it---- 5th gen is not even on Radar that easily let alone having the risk of stall or slowing down while evading. Even if it is locked; the 5th Gen given the tech, design & EW can however maintain a window to scape easily.

TVC on F-22 or SUs was the requirement of that design and not everyone will release study data to make you read and so the adversary to exploit the same. F-22 role & pitch and then it's airframe and the force on its body while maneuvering sideways; that might let you understand. I think you know well about Aerospace design etc...Don't you?

J-10C a delta canard design and the existing design pretty much addresses the need of Aircraft defence & offensive maneuvering. I see that having an extra weight of TVC along with cost to maintain and that negative of recovery post TVC applied; pretty much adds to the point that such an aircraft doesn't need it since the pilot will already utilize its existing capability to build tactics & use it more freely. Not every BVR needs a TVC to evade.

To start with knowledge and learning; let's see why TVC only on F-22? When & why on SU series? But why not necessary on Rafale, EFT and J-10C? If you want to learn then it is up-to you to dig for it, read, ask, have patience and no pre-mindset like I am right and I wouldn't accept anything.

Why would you write that??

I was talking specific to someone and you joined the conversation.
This si teaching someone to suck eggs. And there was no argument. The guy was saying TVC is not valid and only applicable at low speeds...so I simply asked why did the designers of f22 apply it to this air superiority fighter..

Now you are off on something quite different.

Anyways ...as I can see your mind is made up.

Apparently there is an argument that I am trying to win..I didn't even know I was in an argument.

And only way to learn is through research...ofcourse no one knows that!.

Have a nice day.

 

[The Eagle]

I tried to add bit of options to be considered while asking questions. Lets invite @SQ8 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD

you joined the conversation.

My bad and I will keep that in mind in future.

 

[Trango Towers]

I tried to add bit of options to be considered while asking questions. Lets invite @SQ8 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD



My bad and I will keep that in mind in future.

Just misunderstanding. No big deal bro.

It wasn't an argument. Inshallah I will try to do better