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This is nothing brother it will only grow worse. I asked one of my foreign friends (who I had help alot that even his mother used to thank me on Skype) that there will come a day that you have to chose between the truth and the words of your kin (nation) what will you chose and he said his kin. This was the time when Golden Dawn was rising (he was against them).

Considering that similar sentiments arose during the Great Depression. Today's inequality does not need much of trigger.

I am least bothered. It is the way it is. We live in a world full of hate. Humans were always haters from the very beginning. Not a day goes by where humans kill each other for so many reasons and greed. Nothing has changed since day one.

I know what I stand for and I remain steadfast. LOL I am not going to be deterred by some cheap *** propaganda by haters. Fvck that shit. Country, religion and civilisation should mean everything to us. Nothing else matters. Nothing.
 
You have an exact measure of time that you have spent in studying the Quran/Hadith/fiqh in hours? that you have the audacity to ask others of the same. If so I am highly impressed but as a muslim you must provide proof -complete accountable and auditable proof. If you have some understanding of Islam than you would know that Islam is not a novel that you read before bed time. When a muslim is confounded with a problem he seek answers pertaining to that issue. It is quite possible that one dies on faith yet might not come across certain issues for various reasons. Reading is a small part but acting on it one that defines us as muslims.

Take this anecdotal evidence: There is video from BBC in which a pakistani muslim women in USA or UK proclaims that she recently found out that Islam is a "sexy" religion -guess what no one told her that Islam talks about sexuality in much graphic detail than any of the other Abrahamic religions.
That is why , if you would again read my words, I was very careful with my words, I wrote "reading/research in this matter" , not complete Alkitab and hadith but Alkitab and hadith regarding this matter only,
Only in the matter in which people are having "Mujadila".
so because people have jumped into debates of Islamic law regarding "this matter" , so in order for a person to be truthful and confident, I am asking them to provide here the amount of time which time they have spent to look into this "particular matter", right! Or people can just tell us that they have read all hadith regarding "this matter" , I have read all hadith, I proclaim it confidently.
there are 8 in total, mostly given by Pakistani Molvis, and I have checked their authenticity , I have spent time and looked in the Book of ALLAH, I am not an arrogant person , i am always ready to look into any reference provided by anyone, because there is possibility that something still might not be in my knowledge even regarding the matter in which my confidence is based on knowledge.
Have others done same before making a decision or choosing a side? have other done reading/research regarding the matter in which they are debating with such confidence ?
I have understanding about this matter and my understanding is not based not on what I heard from Molana sahib, I hear then I check and I make sure what I am hearing or saying is based on authentic knowledge and not on my "Wisdom" not on my self made logic.
KITABON KA KHUDA OR HAI BAABON KA KHUDA AUR
 
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As a last resort. Why did you forget he hated violence. Here mad people with no understanding pick violence as the 1st option. When he was stoned did he fight? When rubbish was thrown on him did he fight. When people abused him did he fight. Please learn Islam then preach. Thats why Islam means peace...you people want war only yet its the very last option

Islam also means war, against injustice, oppression, lies, propaganda, and most importantly those who seek to silence the message of Islam from being told to the whole world.

Any place where Muslims were prevented from living their faith peacefully and spreading the message, that area was attacked by Muslim armies.

Any system which does not defend itself will end up dead and archaic, and will not have much relevance in the world.

The same people who neutered Christianity, they want to do the same to Islam.

Malcom X, "It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when under vicious attack by his enemy."

This is also the reason that German philosopher Nietzsche respected islam, because islam does not idolize the weak and feeble, but Islam pushes every man to ambitions and better himself in the worldly life as well.
 
Mind your language! Is this standard way of conversation according to Islam?. Are you even a Muslim? I have already stated that I am unaware that such a notion exists in Islam. It is you that has to present that any form of evidence -of which you shall not find any in Quran or Hadith. The only thing you will find is my Prophet's Muhammad SAW's mercy be it for the people of Taif that threw rocks at him, the woman who littered her garbage at his doorstep and countless others. He is the paragon in Islam. How can one take a contrarian approach to his actions and then masquerade as a muslim?

We are all Muslims here, there is no reason to question each others' faiths. Forgive each other and let's get calm.

We can discuss this issue with less emotion and more facts.

I will link you some proofs for what the brother is saying.

Never been the fan of violence because it solves anything hardly, modern world is to complicated and people are way more stubborn to change their ways for 1 or 2 attacks, today such attacks do nothing but encourage more to do the same, this dude is emotional and his action is reflective of his lack of knowledge about Islam in general , but thing is that not everyone is the same, we all have different ways on how to react on certain situations, some get too overwhelmed by emotions and some constrain themselves from the thoughts of doing something irrational .

I doubt this will end anytime soon , even if Muslims kill hundreds of such people, it will encourage thousands more, and than do we have kill thousands ? and it will go on , there has to be another way to solve this issue and no protesting will gain you Jack shit, anyone who is suggesting about protests in west about their beloved Freedom of speech, will be up for a rude awakening , no one will give a shit about some guy or gal insulting a man whom they despise ( Muhammad Pbuh ) , another reason for the world to not create a strict law against such provocation is that the world wants to provoke Muslims, they know if their citizens do such things eventually it will attract some violent reactions from them, and so they will get to cry crocodile tears of how evil Moslems are , how much they hate Western civilization and Freedom and all sort of BS ..

There has to be another way to deal with such situation, I am thinking of one which doesn't include violence nor licking the nasty Arses of West to stop doing it ..

Regardless of the actions of Muslims, the hate will get worse. it is independent of who we are or what we do.

I want us all to realize this, because I have visited some places where I have seen how they train, what ideology they teach their followers, and the lies they tell about Muslims.

This hate, jealousy, and complex which these fascists have (American right, Eurofascist, Orthodox Extremists, New Atheists, and Hindus) is a cycle which keeps feeding itself.

It won't end until we defeat it.
Funny you chose your own place and then chose one for myself. Keep foaming at the mouth. Lol is this what @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan wanted that he visited your page in appreciation.

Bro, I have no qualms with you. That post was in relation his refutation of Indian trolls here.

Even though I agree with him on this issue, but still we need to let tempers calm and restore silat al rahm.

Here is the source of some Sahih Ahadith on this topic of blasphemers.

 
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Arshad Mehmood, the father of the man accused of stabbing two people outside the former offices of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo in Paris, says he is proud of his son's actions Farooq NAEEM AFP


Kothli Qazi (Pakistan) (AFP)

Pakistani farmer Arshad Mehmood has been filled with pride since his son stabbed two people outside the former offices of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo in Paris last week, in the latest attack to expose the violent consequences of blasphemy allegations.

Zaheer Hassan Mehmood, who was born in Pakistan, has confessed to the attack, saying he was motivated by the magazine's recent republication of cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed, which are proscribed in Islam.

"In my opinion, what he did was very good," Arshad told AFP.

The republication, marking the start of the trial over a deadly 2015 attack on the magazine's previous premises, sparked condemnation across the Islamic world and protests throughout Pakistan.

The younger Mehmood has since been charged with "attempted murder with relation to a terrorist enterprise".

But back in his rural village of Kothli Qazi in Punjab province, his family and neighbours are heralding him as a defender of the Islamic faith.

"The person who kills those who disrespect the prophet goes to heaven, and his whole family goes to heaven," Arshad said.

"Because of this, I feel very good that my son did such a good deed."


The assailant's mother Rukhsana Begum added that her son had told the family about the attacks in advance, and had asked for their prayers.

"He told us that on Friday after the Friday prayers he would do it. He also called one of his friends and told him that he saw the holy prophet in his dream and he will go and do this," said Begum.

- 'Cultural gap' -

Blasphemy is a sensitive issue in ultra-conservative Pakistan, where anyone deemed to have insulted Islam or Islamic figures can face the death penalty.

Prayer leaders and political parties across the country frequently rally around the issue, while politicians have been assassinated, European countries threatened with nuclear annihilation, and students lynched over blasphemy allegations.

Prime Minister Imran Khan has also participated in the crusade.

In a speech to the UN General Assembly that was broadcast on the day of the latest attack -- but recorded beforehand -- he blasted Charlie Hebdo for re-running the cartoons, saying "wilful provocations" should be "universally outlawed".

Omar Waraich, deputy South Asia director at Amnesty International, noted a "cultural gap" fuelling the fury.

"In France you have the tradition of satirising religion and people not feeling any offence for it," he said. "Whereas for many Pakistanis... any insult to the prophet is considered the most grievous insult there is and is perceived to be more harmful than violence itself."

The stabbing came just three weeks into a trial in Paris of the suspected accomplices to the 2015 attacks, which included the Charlie Hebdo attack, the killing of a policewoman, and a hostage-taking at a Jewish supermarket which claimed four lives.

Back in Kothli Qazi, the latest attack triggered celebrations, Arshad Mehmood said, with neighbours flocking to their home to congratulate the family.

"The whole village is extremely proud of what he's done," said neighbour Haji Qaiser.

"Wherever you go, they are talking about it."

© 2020 AFP

It's appalling to see the non sense and hypocrite comments of most members in this thread including Pakistani members who all time here portray themselves as defenders of Islam . And when the time came to really defend what hurts and defames Islam their behavior is shameless.
All the western cunts don't even allow anything against Jews in the name of freedom of speech and label it as anti sematic and here they are openly allowing the blasphemy against our prophet (PBUH) in the name of freedom of speech. That man was hurt and provoked like millions and he did what they were asking for.
Would you allow us to openly praise Adolf Hitler or to say anything against Jesus Christ or Jewish religion? Would you allow us to bad mouth Hindu gods and religion in the name of freedom of speech? Or in general any revered figure disrespect can cause a shit storm overthere. When you retaliate you are justified and when we retaliate we are terrorists?
Imran Khan is blamed and attacked by anyone . They gave him names like Playboy etc but what he did for addressing this blasphemy issue is far greater than any molvi or hypocrites like we have on this forum. Several times he addressed this issue on global platforms.
All the time personally I am attacked here as secular,liberal and anti Islam likewise. What a shame on you guys the seculars and liberals are damaging Islam way less than you hypocrites.
@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan
 
Islam also means war, against injustice, oppression, lies, propaganda, and most importantly those who seek to silence the message of Islam from being told to the whole world.

Any place where Muslims were prevented from living their faith peacefully and spreading the message, that area was attacked by Muslim armies.

Any system which does not defend itself will end up dead and archaic, and will not have much relevance in the world.

The same people who neutered Christianity, they want to do the same to Islam.

Malcom X, "It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when under vicious attack by his enemy."

This is also the reason that German philosopher Nietzsche respected islam, because islam does not idolize the weak and feeble, but Islam pushes every man to ambitions and better himself in the worldly life as well.
With respect...why don't you take your arms. Those that wasnt war seldom go to war.

Fight in Islam doesn't mean weapons at the first resort. War is the last resort.
 
I had heard that he claimed blasphemy laws as a black law with regards to the case of Asia Bibi.

Not with regards to Asia's case. Instead, he had given a blanket statement on Blasphemy law. Secondly, he declared a convicted person as innocent and said that he will request President to give a pardon. Please enlighten me how can a governor declare a convicted person innocent? Salman Taseer was well aware that this women was convicted by a session court on Blasphemy charges and he still went to see her and unilaterally declared her innocent. He didn't waited for court decision.

I have no problem with the statement because for me the woman has been denied justice and her time stolen with no recompense.

Are you saying that you have no problem with the statement that Blasphemy Law of Pakistan is Black law?

How can this injustice be from Allah?

How can there be no punishment for a person who abuses Prophet P.B.U.H? How can that person be left alone and be allowed to utter more abuses against Prophet P.B.U.H? We Muslims believes that God is just and the abuse of any Prophet is highest form of injustice.


You have not present any facts -no hadith nor verse that you can kill someone as a "blasphemer" and go to heaven with your family and are now twisting words that it is justified.

"The person who kills those who disrespect the prophet goes to heaven"

I said that this statement is justified and I have presented my arguments to support it.

Once again I cannot ridicule you enjoy your blessing that Allah has given time for you to repent even though you have taken someone else chance of seeking that same redemption.

You felt offended when i used harsh words against your statement but you didnt felt anything against those blasphemers? I repent before God for my countless sins, however its God's blessing and mercy that I am not sympathising with Charlie Hebdo, Salman Taseer and their supporters.
 
The Quran, Hadith, and Sunnah have no such command, implied or otherwise.

So all those Ahadith supporting Blasphemy Law are void according to you? I am quoting them again, so you can base your claims against actions and words of Prophet P.B.U.H:

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (ﷺ) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (ﷺ) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (ﷺ) was informed about it.

He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

He sat before the Prophet (ﷺ) and said: Messenger of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

Thereupon the Prophet (ﷺ) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.Sunan Abi Daood H-4361, Nisai


In fact, the Quran does have aprox. 54 different instances of commanding the Muslims to ignore and walk away when faced with insults against Allah (S.W.T) himself.

Can you claim the same about Prophet P.B.U.H? And were all those commands belong to Makki period or Madni?

Then, as you rightly pointed out, the Prophet's (S.A.W) entire life stands directly opposed to this idea. He was physically assaulted and yet he forgave.

Prophet P.B.U.H can forgive His blasphemers, but how can you assume the place of Prophet and forgive His blasphemers?

Furthermore, according to Islam itself, religious minorities are not subject to Islamic religious laws. In fact, they can choose to have their own independent courts.

Religious minorities form a contract with Islamic state and they can not break that contract. When some non Muslim citizen of Islamic state abuses Prophet P.B.U.H, he is breaking that contract and Islamic state has the right to take his life.

Where does this supposed law come from then?

From Sunnah and Ijma. Muslims have general consensus about the Punishment of blasphemer for 1400 years. Do I need to repeat those names again who have given the Fatwa of capital Punishment for blasphemer? Or according to you, Islamic laws are directly revealed to Ghamdi and likes of you?

From emotions of those who know nothing of the religion and yet claim to be its thekedars, those who choose to twist established laws to further their own religious and political agendas.

From Imam Shafai to Imam Ghazali, from Imam Malik to Qazi Ayyaz, from Imam Muhammad bin Hassan Shaibani to Sana ullah Panipati; all of them knew nothing. All of them issued fatwas and decrees based on their emotions. All of them were furthering their political agendas.

However, the true spirit of Islam and its laws are only revealed to Ghamdi and his disciples. They can reject Ahadith, they can change meaning of Quran, the can change Quranic Aam to Khas and they can restrict rulings of Quran to few individuals. They can also reject Ijma and no one can contradict them.

A) During the Medani period it was decreed that if a Muslim commits apostasy he will be declared a "Murtad" and could be subjected to capital punishment. This was done in the background of the rampant danger posed by the "Munafiqeen" i.e. the law was administrative and not religious, but that is a separate debate.

So what are your thoughts about law of Irtadad? Is it still applicable?

- The Hanafi school decrees death to an apostate only if he commits unlawful warfare against the state. If he does not, he is free to go.

where is the reference of this claim?

- The Ja'fari and Hanafi schools only ascribe the capital punishment to men.

Why you are hiding the punishment of a women in Hanafi School?

- While the Hanafi, Maliki, and Jafri schools make capital punishment mandatory (as long as the prerequisites are met), the Shafi'i and Hanbali schools only consider it a recommendation.

Reference?

- According to all these schools the apostate has to openly declare his/her apostasy in front of the judge and/or community. If he/she does not, they are free to go. In fact, if the judge asks him to re-confirm it and he/she denies it, he/she is free to go.

What is the punishment of a person who kills a Murtad?

B) Later on, after the time of the Sahabah, a Muslim man insulted the Prophet (S.A.W) and people took him to the law. The jurists of the time agreed that he could not be punished for insulting the Prophet (S.A.W) but then also decided that since a believing Muslim could not ever insult the Prophet (S.A.W), the insult he had hurled meant that he was in fact not a Muslim anymore and hence had become an apostate.

Reference?

Non-Muslims were not subject to this law since 1) it is an Islamic religious law, and 2) Non-Muslims by definition cannot commit apostasy from Islam.

Again, where is the reference of this claim? Or we have to accept all your claims on face value?

C) Still, as time passed, the rabid Mullah and his followers, in their rabid emotions, hatred, and ignorance from the religion, decided that Blasphemy = Death for anyone and everyone. And not just death penalty "as per the law and by the law" but murder by the common man, which ironically does indeed carry the death penalty in Islam. A law that is only enforceable on Muslims as per Islamic Jurisprudence and common sense was now enforced on Non-Muslims as well. It was also enforced in ways contrary to the actual decrees; no waiting periods were allowed, no opportunity to repent/recant was given, in fact recanting and repenting did not save you at all, no confirmation or open declaration by the accused was required either. You can accuse your neighbor of blasphemy today, through him and his family in a brick kiln tomorrow, and be a religious hero the day after. People will even build a mausoleum where your putrid self will lay.

Result? A disgustingly morbid, unethical, and absolutely un-Islamic law made and enforced by those who know nothing of the religion. A law which goes contrary to everything The Book and The Prophet (S.A.W) stand for. A law these illiterate Mullahs and their sheep defend like rabid dogs. A law which is only an excuse to commit atrocities against Non-Muslims. A law which the Prophet (S.A.W) himself will testify against in the hereafter, as is his promise.

Names of Scholars who recorded Ijma regarding capital punishment of blasphemer:

Ibn e Munzar, Abu bakar Farsi, Qazi Ayaz, Ibn e Taimiyah, Imam khatabi, Imam Ishaq bin Rahwae, Imam Abu Bakar Jasas, Ibn e Abdin Shami, Imam ibne Sakhnon Malki, Imam Ibn e Atab Malki,

Names of Scholars who gave the fatwa of Capital Punishment aginst Blasphemour of Rasool Allah:

Allama Ismail Haqqi Sahib e Rohul Bayan, Imam Ibne qayam, Imam Ibne taimiayah, Imam Ibn e Munzar, imam malik, imam lais bin saad, imam ahmad bin Hanbal, imam ishaq bin rahwae, imam shafai, imam abubakar farsi shafai, Qazi Ayaz Malki, imam khatabi, Hazrat Umar bin abdul aziz, imam khalal, Ibn e Aqeel Abul Khatab, Imam Halwani, Qazi Abul Hussain, Ibne Munir, allama Ibn e Kasir, Sana Ullah Pani Pati, Hafiz Saadi, Imam Darqutni, allama waqdi, sheikh muhammad bin abdullah altamartashi, Abu saod hanfi, imam Abdullah bin alhakam, imam abu yousaf, imam tahawi, , Imam usman bin kanana malki, imam azbakh malki, abu lais samrqandi, imam abu nasar adabusi, imam ibn e bazaz hanafi, imam khair udin ramli hanfi, imam ibn e najim hanfi, abu lais samrqandi, abu nasar adabusi, imam burhan udin mahmud, imam abu ali bin albana, , qazi abu yala, abul mawahib al akbari, qazi abu ali bin abi musa, imam haskafi, , imam abul hassan qabsi, imam muhammad bin abi zaid, imam ahmad bin sulaiman, imam abdullah bin atab, Maulana Hussain ahmad madni, Imam Subki Shafai


All of them were Rabid Mullahs, all of them were full of hatred and ignorance. However, true Islam is only revealed to you.

Please, get out of your hatred of Muslims.
 
Islam also means war, against injustice, oppression, lies, propaganda, and most importantly those who seek to silence the message of Islam from being told to the whole world.

Any place where Muslims were prevented from living their faith peacefully and spreading the message, that area was attacked by Muslim armies.

Any system which does not defend itself will end up dead and archaic, and will not have much relevance in the world.

The same people who neutered Christianity, they want to do the same to Islam.

Malcom X, "It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when under vicious attack by his enemy."

This is also the reason that German philosopher Nietzsche respected islam, because islam does not idolize the weak and feeble, but Islam pushes every man to ambitions and better himself in the worldly life as well.
you just said it!!!!!!!!!!!! brother:pakistan:
 
ms here, there is no reason to question each others' faiths. Forgive each other and let's get calm.

We can discuss this issue with less emotion and more facts.

I will link you some proofs for what the brother is saying.
I am sorry I refuse to be apologetic. You have to provide proof that for killing a "blasphemer" you will go to heaven including your family. Otherwise you and your friend deliberately and maliciously lied. (the post has also mysteriously been removed -my mistake that I did not save it) You cannot change the goalpost to suit your own narrative. Just look at the garbage your friend has posted. Is the reply to "My prophet died for the sins of humanity and what did you prophet do" "you are a blasphemer/wajibul" . Can you not provide not provide any beautification of Muhammad (SAW). Even this was said when a muslim referred to the woman as unclean. All this garbage has been produced over few illiterate women. This is your worth?

I am sorry but the so called "proofs" do not pertain to these cases at all. Not the current one nor the Asia Bibi case. In fact your extrapolation is quite far and wide and idealistic -disregarding the fact that when the qazis of that time excercised justice they came of too lenient with respect to the actual law. It is unfortunate that you cannot see the difference. I spent the whole night looking for a similar case and I could not find any. There were people who twisted Muhammad(SAW) name he never took any action against them.


Not with regards to Asia's case. Instead, he had given a blanket statement on Blasphemy law. Secondly, he declared a convicted person as innocent and said that he will request President to give a pardon. Please enlighten me how can a governor declare a convicted person innocent? Salman Taseer was well aware that this women was convicted by a session court on Blasphemy charges and he still went to see her and unilaterally declared her innocent. He didn't waited for court decision.

So basically you are saying that one day Salman Taseer woke up and without any rhyme or reason decided say that blasphemy laws were black laws. But it was a coincidence that it turned out that a woman was being sentenced to death for saying "my prophet died for the sins of humanity (a Christian belief) what did your prophet do". Are the sessions courts epitome of justice in Pakistan. You are an extremely malicious person.

"The person who kills those who disrespect the prophet goes to heaven"

I said that this statement is justified and I have presented my arguments to support it.
Once again you have not provide any proof that such and such person will go to heaven with him family. You have twisted everything to suit your agenda. Quite unbelievable that you are now handing out visas to Heaven, family included. Once again you have been deliberately malicious.


You felt offended when i used harsh words against your statement but you didnt felt anything against those blasphemers? I repent before God for my countless sins, however its God's blessing and mercy that I am not sympathising with Charlie Hebdo, Salman Taseer and their supporters.
I am not offended by anything you have said to me. I am offended that you twisted Islam deliberately and maliciously. You behaved contrary to Muslim etiquettes. You and your lot are a blight on the name of Islam.

Who are you to say what I feel or do not feel when someone abuses my Prophet(SAW). There have been three cases, two of which were related, during my lifetime in which caricatures were made and reported in international media. I simply chose not to see them until someone took out a print out and showed me. I have not seen any material published by Charlie Hebdo. I only read the first few lines of Salman Rushdie's book and decided that the garbage was not worth a read. I have come across far worse material on the internet -on which I stumbled unexpectedly but I choose not to acknowledge it. I will not lose composure even if someone blares filth in my ears outright -in the hope that my perseverance will win me the company of like minded people.

It is impossible to continue this for me. I can only pity you.
 
You have to provide proof that for killing a "blasphemer" you will go to heaven including your family. Otherwise you and your friend deliberately and maliciously lied. (the post has also mysteriously been removed -my mistake that I did not save it) You cannot change the goalpost to suit your own narrative. Just look at the garbage your friend has posted.

We have come to the same conclusion totally independently from each other. This is based on Quran, Ahadith, and Fiqh.

If we try to appease Kuffar, they will never be pleased with us until we follow their religion, as Allah swt says in Quran 2:120.

We have to be loud and clear about the proper teachings of Islam. We should not anymore talk from a position of weakness.

It is no longer the 90s when Francis Fukayama said that "we are at the end of history." No longer can it be seen that the Western mindset, culture, and civilization is the pinnacle of humanity, nay, it is collapsing in on itself, and quickly.

This is the time now for Muslims to formulate and push our narrative forward. The world no longer respects the apologetic one, but the one who is strong in his convictions and who will grab opportunity by his hands when it presents a chance.

I apologize brother if it felt like you were being crowded, it was not my intention. I just have strong convictions about this issue.

We Pakistanis and Muslims should be big enough to not be divided so quickly, it is a failing we all share.

As far as the topic of blasphemy, I have made my point and shared the relevant ahadith.

If we agree or disagree, that fine. In the end we only have each other as Pakistanis and Muslims. There should be no break in our wall of unity.


May Allah swt bless you.
 
So basically you are saying that one day Salman Taseer woke up and without any rhyme or reason decided say that blasphemy laws were black laws.

Who was Salman Taseer to declare Blasphemy law as black law? Was he a Prophet, lawgiver or a sovereign? (Naoz o billah). He had no authority to issue such sweeping and mischievous statement.

But it was a coincidence that it turned out that a woman was being sentenced to death for saying "my prophet died for the sins of humanity (a Christian belief) what did your prophet do".

Did she said that? And why are you parroting her statement? To prove that these statement are normal and everyone should be allowed to speak up his mind, even if they abuse Prophet P.B.U.H?

Are the sessions courts epitome of justice in Pakistan.

Session courts have the authority to issue verdicts. Who the hell was governor? Why you are forgetting your beloved 'rule of law', here? Or this rule of law logic only comes into your mind when you want to protect and sympathize with blasphemers.

Once again you have not provide any proof that such and such person will go to heaven with him family.

You need to read my claim again. I am stating it again:

"A person who kills a blasphemer of Prophet P.B.U.H will go to heaven, Inshallah"

You are an extremely malicious person.

Still, I am better than those persons who are defending blasphemers.

I am not offended by anything you have said to me. I am offended that you twisted Islam deliberately and maliciously.

You are offended when someone, according to you, tried to twist the Deen of Prophet P.B.U.H. However, you dont feel offended when someone abuses Prophet P.B.U.H. You want to give blasphemers another chance so that they can hurl more abuses towards our Beloved A.S.

Dear, I am unable to understand you logic.

You behaved contrary to Muslim etiquettes.

I dont have pleasent words for those who sympathize with Kufaar or blasphemers.

Who are you to say what I feel or do not feel when someone abuses my Prophet(SAW).

You are trying to defend blasphemers of Prophet P.B.U.H by stating that there is no punishment for them in Islam. They should be allowed to do that and should be treated gently. You are the one who is defending the statements of Salman Taseer.
 
We have come …………May Allah swt bless you.



Thank you for your post. I appreciate that you have been civil throughout. I unfortunately could not understand how this relates to my specific query.

"The person who kills those who disrespect the prophet goes to heaven, and his whole family goes to heaven," Arshad said.

What? I have never heard this.... concocting innovations -isn't that blasphemy too?

I think you will agree here that no such substance has been presented, during the duration, on the matter of whether such a person will go to Heaven or not. Allah knows better. However, I will not speak for you.

The current statement of the person is:

You need to read my claim again. I am stating it again:

"A person who kills a blasphemer of Prophet P.B.U.H will go to heaven, Inshallah"

From justified to claim. I have no issue with this claim even though no justification has been provided (Allah knows better). I also believe that this elasticity needs to be provided to everyone so we all find in within ourselves to turn to the true fold of Islam –be it a Muslim or non-Muslim. You cannot abuse the fact that you were born a Muslim and the convictions (i.e. being born in any particular religion) that come with it.

Once again I would like to reiterate that my query was very specific and clear.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

You presented some material on a matter (without illuminations) that was unrelated to my query:

Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud: Harithah ibn Mudarrib said that he came to Abdullah ibn Mas'ud and said (to him): There is no enmity between me and any of the Arabs. I passed a mosque of Banu Hanifah. They (the people) believed. Abdullah (ibn Mas'ud) sent for them. They were brought, and he asked them to repent in Musaylimah, except Ibn an-Nawwahah. He said to him: I heard the Messenger of Allah (SAW) say: Were it not that you were not a messenger, I would behead you. But today you are not a messenger. He then ordered Qarazah ibn Ka'b (to kill him). He beheaded him in the market. Anyone who wants to see Ibn an-Nawwahah slain in the market (he may see him).

https://sunnah.com/abudawud/15/286

Book of Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad), (158) Chapter: Regarding Sending Messengers

Some additional context for this case:

Narrated Nu'aym ibn Mas'ud: I heard the Apostle of Allah (SAW) say when he read the letter of Musaylimah: What do you believe yourselves? They said: We believe as he believes. He said: I swear by Allah that were it not that messengers are not killed; I would cut off your heads.

https://sunnah.com/abudawud/15/285

Book of Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad), (159) Chapter: Regarding Sending Messengers

My thoughts: In my humble opinion, these ahadith are more likely related to apostasy. This in itself is another discussion. Therefore, I will not comment on it. It is interesting how these ahadith are categorized –which is different from the case of blasphemy/apostasy all together. (Allah knows best).

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has really hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "O Allah's Apostle! Do you like me to kill him?" He replied in the affirmative. So, Muhammad bin Maslama went to him (i.e. Ka'b) and said, "This person (i.e. the Prophet) has put us to task and asked us for charity." Ka'b replied, "By Allah, you will get tired of him." Muhammad said to him, "We have followed him, so we dislike to leave him till we see the end of his affair." Muhammad bin Maslama went on talking to him in this way till he got the chance to kill him.


https://sunnah.com/bukhari/56/238

Book of Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad), (158) Chapter: Telling lies in war

Narrated Jabir: The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b bin Ashraf (i.e. a Jew)." Muhammad bin Maslama replied, "Do you like me to kill him?" The Prophet replied in the affirmative. Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say what I like." The Prophet replied, "I do (i.e. allow you)."

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/56/239

Book of Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad), 159) Chapter: Killing non-Muslim warriors secretly

My thoughts: In my humble opinion, these ahadith may relate to matters of blasphemy. Again the categorization, suggest the case illustrates a totally different issue. You have not illuminated the context in which you have present this as evidence. Prior discussion on PDF and a cursory read of the matter suggest that a few different contexts exist.

In my humble opinion, this command is very specific –directed at a particular person and his particular deeds (blasphemous verses). Without proper context, I find it hard to extract a definitive judgement (on matters of blasphemy). The interesting part of the hadith, is that people are more clear on the matter of when it occurred i.e. after the Battle of Badr. (While the hadith in itself is not a general command) Had it been a general command against blasphemy then the muslims/ sahabas of that time would have carried it out and we might not have had other ahadith on the matter (because this event transpired early on). This can be illuminated from other ahadith presented elsewhere on PDF:

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas: A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (SAW) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (SAW) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (SAW) was informed about it.

He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

He sat before the Prophet (SAW) and said: Messenger of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

Thereupon the Prophet (SAW) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.


https://sunnah.com/abudawud/40/11

Book of Prescribed Punishments, Chapter: The ruling regarding one who reviles the Prophet (SAW)

My thoughts: When I ponder on this hadith, in my humble opinion –both the man and other Muslims present during the gathering were not aware of what the outcome would be. The demeanour of the man is specifically highlighted in the hadith (I have only emboldened it to illuminate some context). Furthermore, the man himself had shown exemplary restraint. I do not have more context on the judgement – possibility could be that a mistake was made in the heat of the moment, repeat warnings were given and the man himself was repenting (separately, combination or all together). Allah and the Prophet (SAW) know best. I cannot ascribe any of my convictions to this particular ruling. So I will err on the side of caution. This is the only case presented on PDF which actually pertains to the matter. It has been categorized in the Book of Prescribed Punishments, under the Chapter of: The rules regarding one who reviles the Prophet (SAW). How one takes lesson from this particular hadith may vary –some may consider the complete chain of events as presented and other may simple consider the end result.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Other cases:

Narrated Anas bin Malik: On the day of the Conquest, the Prophet (SAW) entered Mecca, wearing a helmet on his head. When he took it off, a man came and said, "Ibn Khatal is clinging to the curtain of the Ka'ba." The Prophet (SAW) said, "Kill him." (Malik a sub-narrator said, "On that day the Prophet was not in a state of Ihram as it appeared to us, and Allah knows better.")

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/64/319

Military Expeditions led by the Prophet (SAW), Chapter: Where did the Prophet (SAW) fix the flag on the day of the conquest of Makkah?

Narrated Sa'd: On the day when Mecca was conquered, the Messenger of Allah (SAW) gave protection to the People except four men and two women and he named them. Ibn AbuSarh was one of them.

He then narrated the tradition. He said: Ibn AbuSarh hid himself with Uthman ibn Affan. When the Messenger of Allah (SAW) called the people to take the oath of allegiance, he brought him and made him stand before the Messenger of Allah (SAW). He said: Messenger of Allah, receive the oath of allegiance from him. He raised his head and looked at him thrice, denying him every time. After the third time he received his oath. He then turned to his Companions and said: Is not there any intelligent man among you who would stand to this (man) when he saw me desisting from receiving the oath of allegiance, and kill him? They replied: We do not know, Messenger of Allah, what lies in your heart; did you not give us a hint with your eye? He said: It is not proper for a Prophet to have a treacherous eye.

Abu Dawud said: 'Abd Allah (b. Abi Sarh) was the foster brother of 'Uthman, and Walid b. 'Uqbah was his brother by mother, and 'Uthman inflicted on him hadd punishment when he drank wine.


https://sunnah.com/abudawud/15/207

Book of Jihad (Kitab Al-Jihad), (974) Chapter: Killing A Captive Without Inviting Him To Islam

I need not go into details because I only aim to highlight that in such matters the Sahabas and other Muslims, at that time, erred on the side of caution and repeatedly sought his counsel on the matter. In the first case despite the command being given –more counsel was sought. While the hadith itself does not describe the crime. A cursory read on the matter suggest there could be up to three issues: killing of a slave, apostasy and blasphemous verses. The second hadith also suggests that the Muslims were not aware of a general command (context not illuminated as it has been wrongly abused).

These are my opinions on the matter since I have been dragged into (dare I say maliciously). But they are not exhaustive. I leave this with two videos from the same person Hamza Yusuf.



(If you have an issue with him due to the current state of affairs –refer to
)

I will continue to seek guidance on this matter.

In my humble opinion, blasphemy as considered by our Prophet (SAW) was committed by people of influence which involved egregious and persistent behaviour that was meant to undermine him as a messenger of Allah, to emboldened the enemies of Islam, to demoralized the converts and to keep away those who would have otherwise been receptive to the message of Islam. I hardly think this is valid today. However, in our present times, the closest we have ever been is the case of Salman Rushdie and only because it was overt, otherwise more grave, graphic and shameful material is present in the dark corners of the internet.

I see a lot of hypocrisy on PDF, people are cheering for the death of a person and “justifying” it. I wish you all to show some balls and step up to the plate. Do not hide in the dark corners of the interwebs, go forth bring glory to this forum. Words are meaningless –if you believe in something you should be prepared to act it out. You should not worry for your “brothers” will bear witness for you and you and your family will go to Heaven.

I leave you with another query of mine that has remained unanswered.

by the way according to this person is truthful



TLP lead the riots, they exhibit the same mentality that you have reflected in your post above. Mujhe ye baata dou bhai kiya Khadim Rizvi nay ghustakhi-e-Rasool nahi kiya in videos mein? Aur bhe hain, magar bohat bura lagta hai... mein tou ye aaj je dekhi hain is forum per.

And now that my watch has ended I bid you all Adieu.

I took a break from this forum when Asim Aquil had lost his African grey parrot and Manticore was collating a lot of information into threads. He had completed his studies in medicine and had been gifted a nice watch (I can’t remember which). WindJammer had bounced back (self-exile) after one of his boomerang (exaggerated) threads (first time it was) he had returned and was proudly showing off his GoKarting trophy. Jana Baji had cracked an awesome always ultra joke (yeah there was a time when there were ultras and not terrorists). When I came back, there was an Egyptian god (did not remember being that shitty of a person) cracking his whip around. The forum completely changed.

The issue of blasphemy is not new on PDF.

Asia Bibi Case

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Bibi_blasphemy_case (well annotated)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/will-p...year-old-woman-for-being-christian-1539904139

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2166579/3-despite-ordeal-aasia-bibi-wants-see-day-can-go-back-pakistan

https://www.ucanews.com/news/uproar-as-asia-bibi-disowns-autobiography/89383#

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-deep-state-read-this.584985/post-10916832

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/asia...s-cities-across-pakistan.584441/post-10905009 (my own personal view)

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/tlp-riots-and-destruction-aasia-bibi-blasphemy-judgement.584456/

Other memories from PDF (please do go over these threads)

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/setb...facing-blasphemy-charges.210669/#post-3459662

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/where-are-the-blasphemy-protectors.489558/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/timeline-accused-under-the-blasphemy-law.489867/

https://utpress.utexas.edu/books/abbpak (read excerpts) (widow of Captain Nisar Ahmad SJ. Thank you fatman Sb for highlighting this in from the Vault).

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/beleaguered-blasphemy-victim-suffers-more-bail-delay.483352/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-issue-of-blasphemy-pkkh-tv.215138/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/alleged-blasphemy-mob-burns-100-christian-homes-in-lahore.239191/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/dpc-...rest-of-blasphemy-accused-girl-report.204766/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/age-of-madness.18396/post-3374227

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/rimsha-case-imam-masjid-khalid-jadoon-held.205410/page-8#post-3368399

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/blast-in-peshawar-qissa-khani-bazar.279174/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/mob-...crating-quran-alive-in-police-station.225804/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/christian-woman-burnt-alive-over-blasphemy-was-pregnant.342663/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/rimsha-case-imam-masjid-khalid-jadoon-held.205410/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/rimsha-masih-family-get-asylum-in-canada.261012/#post-4462944

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/beleaguered-blasphemy-victim-suffers-more-bail-delay.483352/

There is one Junaid Jamshed blasphemy case as well if I have missed.
 
Thank you for your post. I appreciate that you have been civil throughout. I unfortunately could not understand how this relates to my specific query.



I think you will agree here that no such substance has been presented, during the duration, on the matter of whether such a person will go to Heaven or not. Allah knows better. However, I will not speak for you.

The current statement of the person is:

You need to read my claim again. I am stating it again:

"A person who kills a blasphemer of Prophet P.B.U.H will go to heaven, Inshallah"

From justified to claim. I have no issue with this claim even though no justification has been provided (Allah knows better). I also believe that this elasticity needs to be provided to everyone so we all find in within ourselves to turn to the true fold of Islam –be it a Muslim or non-Muslim. You cannot abuse the fact that you were born a Muslim and the convictions (i.e. being born in any particular religion) that come with it.

Once again I would like to reiterate that my query was very specific and clear.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

You presented some material on a matter (without illuminations) that was unrelated to my query:

Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud: Harithah ibn Mudarrib said that he came to Abdullah ibn Mas'ud and said (to him): There is no enmity between me and any of the Arabs. I passed a mosque of Banu Hanifah. They (the people) believed. Abdullah (ibn Mas'ud) sent for them. They were brought, and he asked them to repent in Musaylimah, except Ibn an-Nawwahah. He said to him: I heard the Messenger of Allah (SAW) say: Were it not that you were not a messenger, I would behead you. But today you are not a messenger. He then ordered Qarazah ibn Ka'b (to kill him). He beheaded him in the market. Anyone who wants to see Ibn an-Nawwahah slain in the market (he may see him).

https://sunnah.com/abudawud/15/286

Book of Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad), (158) Chapter: Regarding Sending Messengers

Some additional context for this case:

Narrated Nu'aym ibn Mas'ud: I heard the Apostle of Allah (SAW) say when he read the letter of Musaylimah: What do you believe yourselves? They said: We believe as he believes. He said: I swear by Allah that were it not that messengers are not killed; I would cut off your heads.

https://sunnah.com/abudawud/15/285

Book of Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad), (159) Chapter: Regarding Sending Messengers

My thoughts: In my humble opinion, these ahadith are more likely related to apostasy. This in itself is another discussion. Therefore, I will not comment on it. It is interesting how these ahadith are categorized –which is different from the case of blasphemy/apostasy all together. (Allah knows best).

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has really hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "O Allah's Apostle! Do you like me to kill him?" He replied in the affirmative. So, Muhammad bin Maslama went to him (i.e. Ka'b) and said, "This person (i.e. the Prophet) has put us to task and asked us for charity." Ka'b replied, "By Allah, you will get tired of him." Muhammad said to him, "We have followed him, so we dislike to leave him till we see the end of his affair." Muhammad bin Maslama went on talking to him in this way till he got the chance to kill him.


https://sunnah.com/bukhari/56/238

Book of Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad), (158) Chapter: Telling lies in war

Narrated Jabir: The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b bin Ashraf (i.e. a Jew)." Muhammad bin Maslama replied, "Do you like me to kill him?" The Prophet replied in the affirmative. Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say what I like." The Prophet replied, "I do (i.e. allow you)."

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/56/239

Book of Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad), 159) Chapter: Killing non-Muslim warriors secretly

My thoughts: In my humble opinion, these ahadith may relate to matters of blasphemy. Again the categorization, suggest the case illustrates a totally different issue. You have not illuminated the context in which you have present this as evidence. Prior discussion on PDF and a cursory read of the matter suggest that a few different contexts exist.

In my humble opinion, this command is very specific –directed at a particular person and his particular deeds (blasphemous verses). Without proper context, I find it hard to extract a definitive judgement (on matters of blasphemy). The interesting part of the hadith, is that people are more clear on the matter of when it occurred i.e. after the Battle of Badr. (While the hadith in itself is not a general command) Had it been a general command against blasphemy then the muslims/ sahabas of that time would have carried it out and we might not have had other ahadith on the matter (because this event transpired early on). This can be illuminated from other ahadith presented elsewhere on PDF:

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas: A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (SAW) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (SAW) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (SAW) was informed about it.

He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

He sat before the Prophet (SAW) and said: Messenger of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

Thereupon the Prophet (SAW) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.


https://sunnah.com/abudawud/40/11

Book of Prescribed Punishments, Chapter: The ruling regarding one who reviles the Prophet (SAW)

My thoughts: When I ponder on this hadith, in my humble opinion –both the man and other Muslims present during the gathering were not aware of what the outcome would be. The demeanour of the man is specifically highlighted in the hadith (I have only emboldened it to illuminate some context). Furthermore, the man himself had shown exemplary restraint. I do not have more context on the judgement – possibility could be that a mistake was made in the heat of the moment, repeat warnings were given and the man himself was repenting (separately, combination or all together). Allah and the Prophet (SAW) know best. I cannot ascribe any of my convictions to this particular ruling. So I will err on the side of caution. This is the only case presented on PDF which actually pertains to the matter. It has been categorized in the Book of Prescribed Punishments, under the Chapter of: The rules regarding one who reviles the Prophet (SAW). How one takes lesson from this particular hadith may vary –some may consider the complete chain of events as presented and other may simple consider the end result.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Other cases:

Narrated Anas bin Malik: On the day of the Conquest, the Prophet (SAW) entered Mecca, wearing a helmet on his head. When he took it off, a man came and said, "Ibn Khatal is clinging to the curtain of the Ka'ba." The Prophet (SAW) said, "Kill him." (Malik a sub-narrator said, "On that day the Prophet was not in a state of Ihram as it appeared to us, and Allah knows better.")

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/64/319

Military Expeditions led by the Prophet (SAW), Chapter: Where did the Prophet (SAW) fix the flag on the day of the conquest of Makkah?

Narrated Sa'd: On the day when Mecca was conquered, the Messenger of Allah (SAW) gave protection to the People except four men and two women and he named them. Ibn AbuSarh was one of them.

He then narrated the tradition. He said: Ibn AbuSarh hid himself with Uthman ibn Affan. When the Messenger of Allah (SAW) called the people to take the oath of allegiance, he brought him and made him stand before the Messenger of Allah (SAW). He said: Messenger of Allah, receive the oath of allegiance from him. He raised his head and looked at him thrice, denying him every time. After the third time he received his oath. He then turned to his Companions and said: Is not there any intelligent man among you who would stand to this (man) when he saw me desisting from receiving the oath of allegiance, and kill him? They replied: We do not know, Messenger of Allah, what lies in your heart; did you not give us a hint with your eye? He said: It is not proper for a Prophet to have a treacherous eye.

Abu Dawud said: 'Abd Allah (b. Abi Sarh) was the foster brother of 'Uthman, and Walid b. 'Uqbah was his brother by mother, and 'Uthman inflicted on him hadd punishment when he drank wine.


https://sunnah.com/abudawud/15/207

Book of Jihad (Kitab Al-Jihad), (974) Chapter: Killing A Captive Without Inviting Him To Islam

I need not go into details because I only aim to highlight that in such matters the Sahabas and other Muslims, at that time, erred on the side of caution and repeatedly sought his counsel on the matter. In the first case despite the command being given –more counsel was sought. While the hadith itself does not describe the crime. A cursory read on the matter suggest there could be up to three issues: killing of a slave, apostasy and blasphemous verses. The second hadith also suggests that the Muslims were not aware of a general command (context not illuminated as it has been wrongly abused).

These are my opinions on the matter since I have been dragged into (dare I say maliciously). But they are not exhaustive. I leave this with two videos from the same person Hamza Yusuf.



(If you have an issue with him due to the current state of affairs –refer to
)

I will continue to seek guidance on this matter.

In my humble opinion, blasphemy as considered by our Prophet (SAW) was committed by people of influence which involved egregious and persistent behaviour that was meant to undermine him as a messenger of Allah, to emboldened the enemies of Islam, to demoralized the converts and to keep away those who would have otherwise been receptive to the message of Islam. I hardly think this is valid today. However, in our present times, the closest we have ever been is the case of Salman Rushdie and only because it was overt, otherwise more grave, graphic and shameful material is present in the dark corners of the internet.

I see a lot of hypocrisy on PDF, people are cheering for the death of a person and “justifying” it. I wish you all to show some balls and step up to the plate. Do not hide in the dark corners of the interwebs, go forth bring glory to this forum. Words are meaningless –if you believe in something you should be prepared to act it out. You should not worry for your “brothers” will bear witness for you and you and your family will go to Heaven.

I leave you with another query of mine that has remained unanswered.





And now that my watch has ended I bid you all Adieu.

I took a break from this forum when Asim Aquil had lost his African grey parrot and Manticore was collating a lot of information into threads. He had completed his studies in medicine and had been gifted a nice watch (I can’t remember which). WindJammer had bounced back (self-exile) after one of his boomerang (exaggerated) threads (first time it was) he had returned and was proudly showing off his GoKarting trophy. Jana Baji had cracked an awesome always ultra joke (yeah there was a time when there were ultras and not terrorists). When I came back, there was an Egyptian god (did not remember being that shitty of a person) cracking his whip around. The forum completely changed.

The issue of blasphemy is not new on PDF.

Asia Bibi Case

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Bibi_blasphemy_case (well annotated)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/will-p...year-old-woman-for-being-christian-1539904139

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2166579/3-despite-ordeal-aasia-bibi-wants-see-day-can-go-back-pakistan

https://www.ucanews.com/news/uproar-as-asia-bibi-disowns-autobiography/89383#

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-deep-state-read-this.584985/post-10916832

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/asia...s-cities-across-pakistan.584441/post-10905009 (my own personal view)

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/tlp-riots-and-destruction-aasia-bibi-blasphemy-judgement.584456/

Other memories from PDF (please do go over these threads)

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/setb...facing-blasphemy-charges.210669/#post-3459662

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/where-are-the-blasphemy-protectors.489558/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/timeline-accused-under-the-blasphemy-law.489867/

https://utpress.utexas.edu/books/abbpak (read excerpts) (widow of Captain Nisar Ahmad SJ. Thank you fatman Sb for highlighting this in from the Vault).

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/beleaguered-blasphemy-victim-suffers-more-bail-delay.483352/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-issue-of-blasphemy-pkkh-tv.215138/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/alleged-blasphemy-mob-burns-100-christian-homes-in-lahore.239191/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/dpc-...rest-of-blasphemy-accused-girl-report.204766/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/age-of-madness.18396/post-3374227

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/rimsha-case-imam-masjid-khalid-jadoon-held.205410/page-8#post-3368399

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/blast-in-peshawar-qissa-khani-bazar.279174/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/mob-...crating-quran-alive-in-police-station.225804/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/christian-woman-burnt-alive-over-blasphemy-was-pregnant.342663/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/rimsha-case-imam-masjid-khalid-jadoon-held.205410/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/rimsha-masih-family-get-asylum-in-canada.261012/#post-4462944

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/beleaguered-blasphemy-victim-suffers-more-bail-delay.483352/

There is one Junaid Jamshed blasphemy case as well if I have missed.

You have posted a very long response to elucidate your view and I am impressed by your dedication.

However, Islam is based on Quran, Sunnah, and Ijma of Ulema. We cannot alter the rulings, even based on new age scholars like Hamza Yusuf and Ghamidi.

As I have already shared the proof, there is no reason to continue the back and forth.

We can politely agree to disagree and disengage on this topic.

We should respect the rules of the forum and avoid religious discussions.

If you have further questions, please take them to a proper Alim.
 
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