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Bajwa was 100% right about the army's combat readiness

It’s a Guerrilla war it’s hard for our troops to fight them because they can literally be anywhere. All conventional army’s do struggle with this kind of fighting when you’re trying to also avoid a high civilian casualties that it’s pretty hard, look at afghanistan and Iraq recent wars west lost. Going to Indian army murder spree killed 100,000 Kashmiris raped thousands still not ended the resistance inside IOK , Pakistan has just taken its foot off inside of Kashmir for the relative calm they currently joy . Bajwa was a proven compulsive liar nested his nest with his croonies to milk pakistan told rest of us bunch of lies coming to india he simply wanted to make billions. And get out live rest of his short live in USA he was simply a greedy lying BaSTard.
 
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If army isn’t capable of fighting Indians they shouldn’t stop mujahideen from fighting Indians. Bajwa stopped mujahideen from attacking Indians in IOJK. Bajwa allowed Indians to illegally annex IOJK without facing the consequences. Mujahideen groups have own ways to get funds and don’t affect Pakistani economy. Establishment claims india supports TTP and BLA/BLF but establishment doesn’t let Kashmiri Mujahideen retaliate against Indians. Pakistan has adopted the policy of bending over for everyone. That’s why foreign funded and foreign supported terrorism is in the rise in Pakistan.
 
There is NO appetite in India for any act of aggression.

You did not said that with a straight face!

If you have an open mind, I can explain why, in the simplest possible terms.

Thanks! But I"ll pass. On another note honestly I don't give a rats *** if India has the stomach or not. If it comes to war, I have zero expectation from PA high command chutias. PAF however is a different game. PN to some extent as well.
On the ground it would be ordinary Pakistani son of soils and the ordinary soldiers. The Genralz would be long gone to their offshore properties by then.
 
You did not said that with a straight face!
I truly, honestly, said that in all seriousness.

What you hear, people talking in loud, emphatic voices and threatening the most colourful horrors ahead for Pakistan and for Pakistanis, are politicians making a major effort to show that they are bold and decisive, and will not be bullied by our warlike neighbour.

It is pure amateur dramatics. They themselves have no intention, none whatsoever, of being actively involved in any kind of violence, other than violence in a mob against defenceless men, women and children.

These creeps belong to the right-wing, specifically the Sangh Parivar, the congeries of organisations founded and managed by the RSS; the ruling party, the BJP, is one of the constituent organisations.

As far as the audiences are concerned, it is delightful, an opportunity to escape their grim reality. They don't take these sermons very seriously.
 
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Frankly, nobody, not a single person, in India believes that the Pakistan Army, directed by ISI, does not continue to maintain a clandestine campaign against India.

It is their past that leads to this unshakable suspicion.

In every case but one, there has been clandestine activity in order to achieve explicit national goals. There is no mystery, no concealment of these objectives and goals.

While many - most - liberals stand aloof from the right-wing political sections, and do not actively wish for isolation from Pakistan, they also mostly would rather stay away until there is genuine change in attitudes.

For me, I deeply regret the agonising trouble that your country is going through. That does not stop me from asking why, even at this difficult moment, your establishment does not stop badgering the neighbouring country, why, even today, a policy of restraint and abstention from force in the first instance, is rewarded with such venom.

Just because Your pizza toppings were missing dosent mean ISI is active in India.

Now if some one was taking your pictures while you were changing then you have a case 😉
Someone have taken your property and building housing society on it then you can claim ISI is active in India other then that you have no case.
 
Just because Your pizza toppings were missing dosent mean ISI is active in India.

Now if some one was taking your pictures while you were changing then you have a case 😉
Someone have taken your property and building housing society on it then you can claim ISI is active in India other then that you have no case.

:p:

An excellent case (yours). I don't agree, but it is a well-argued position.

Incidentally, the earliest and very learned member of PDF with whom I had the privilege of exchanging views (on the Indus Valley Civilisation) as far back as 2009 also called himself Road Runner.

I truly miss him.
 
so can i, i have interacted with alot of indians, your women i got along with but your men i wanna screw the living shit out of them, These thongs aside the biggest factor is religion either you guys become muslims or we the h**, which can't happen, so.

Bro you want to get along with the women and screw the crap out of men? TF is that
 
The joke is that the PA doesn't need to protect Pakistan against India.

It simply has to stop attacking India.
PA has already surrendered. The only thing left is to sign an instrument of surrender. Given what is happening now, at the LOC in some places, when the news comes out, whatever is left of PA's rapport in the imagination of kids here will be lost as well.
 
The bad condition is because of him, and not inspite of him.

Ulta Chor kotawal ko dantay.

And 'cause of black sheeps, and bad apples like him, some others top ranks. Simply remove them, sideline them, get them removed from the top slots and the situation in the Army will improve, the trust deficit between the Awam and Army will subside...
PAKISTAN ARMY is the best army in the whole world there for the enemies trying to detach PAKISTAN ARMY from the people of PAKSITAN there for they using corrupt leaders & political parties for sabotage this relationship but they will never succeed INSHALLAH...
 
Lions led to their graves by property dealing donkeys.

Innalillahi wainalahi rajioun

Sorry donkeys .
 
It’s a Guerrilla war it’s hard for our troops to fight them because they can literally be anywhere. All conventional army’s do struggle with this kind of fighting when you’re trying to also avoid a high civilian casualties that it’s pretty hard, look at afghanistan and Iraq recent wars west lost. Going to Indian army murder spree killed 100,000 Kashmiris raped thousands still not ended the resistance inside IOK , Pakistan has just taken its foot off inside of Kashmir for the relative calm they currently joy . Bajwa was a proven compulsive liar nested his nest with his croonies to milk pakistan told rest of us bunch of lies coming to india he simply wanted to make billions. And get out live rest of his short live in USA he was simply a greedy lying BaSTard.

Who taught the so-called Mujahideen to fight a war with conventional forces? United States (US) and Pakistan in the 1980s to counter Soviet Union in Afghanistan. It was assumed that Soviet Union desired access to Indian Ocean but this theory is disputed. Soviet economic situation was not good in the 1980s and Soviet Union could NOT afford to fight a war all the way to Arabian Sea. Declassified records tell a different story: Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan to topple Amin regime because it managed to topple Soviet friendly Taraki regime and was looking forward to develop bilateral relations with US.

-----

One might argue that regime change experiment was as a costly mistake in view of its unexpected cascading effects (Critical View) but NATO military performance in Iraq has been brilliant and it has achieved its political aim of reshaping political landscape of Iraq (Objective View): Saddam regime was dismantled and Iraqi political landscape is restructured as a Federal Parliamentary Republic.

The 2003 Blitzkrieg to occupy Iraq and topple Saddam regime in world record time (Operation Iraqi Freedom)
The 2004 Battle of Fallujah to recover it from Iraqi insurgency - brilliantly executed
De-Baathification of Iraq - similar to De-Nazification of Germany
Leader of Al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) killed in 2006.
The 2008 Battle of Sadr City to recover it from Iraqi insurgency - brilliantly executed (Iraqi insurgency is defeated)
Iraq was stabilized and NATO occupation was called off by Obama administration in 2011.

But poor security situation in Syria and political blunders of Maliki administration in Iraq allowed survivors of Saddam regime and Al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) to regroup and establish the Islamic State of Iraq and Levant (ISIL) in 2013 and its call for jihad appealed to thousands from all over the world, and ISIL managed to spread across Syria and Iraq consequently.

NATO returned to Iraq and launched Operation Inherent Resolve to defeat ISIL during the (2014 - 2021) period - brilliantly executed. This success is in part owed to local actors in Iraq and Syria who chose to oppose ISIL with American support and stood firm in this cause.

So:

Saddam regime is victorious?
Iraqi insurgency is victorious?
ISIL is victorious?

Come on, bro. NATO has defeated these forces and achieved its political aim of reshaping the political landscape of Iraq.

Iraq is ruined of-course.

-----

NATO could NOT reshape political landscape of Afghanistan because the Establishment was fine with nabbing Al-Qaeda fighters but wanted to preserve TTA. The Establishment assumed that TTA will serve its interests and provide strategic depth to Pakistan as in the 1990s.

US objected to the Establishment's support to TTA and efforts to negotiate with Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) in times of Bush administration and Obama administration. The Establishment refused to abandon TTA but launched Operation Zarb-e-Azm to defeat TTP in North Waziristan in 2014. The narrative of Good Taliban and Bad Taliban was adopted to distinguish between TTA and TTP as well. But TTP found refuge in Afghanistan and US-backed Afghan setup was accused of supporting TTP. In reality, US-backed Afghan setup was fighting a war with the inter-Taliban nexus of TTA and TTP, and ISIS-K*, and had killed as well as imprisoned thousands of TTA, TTP, and ISIS-K fighters but it was not in control of the entire country and could not stop TTP from finding refuge in Afghanistan. Contrary to the perception of Good Taliban and Bad Taliban that was sold to Pakistani awaam, TTP managed to regroup under leadership of Noor Wali Mehsud with support of Al-Qaeda Network and TTA, and these groups have worked together to counter US-backed Afghan setup; this relationship is also noted in here and here. India had access to Afghanistan through Iran, and it was EASY for India to appeal to US-backed Afghan setup through investment in Afghanistan infrastructure and siding with its position on the issue of the Establishment's support to TTA. India could also provide arms to any TAKERS in the region.

*ISIS-K cadre is composed of former members of TTA, TTP, and Al-Qaeda Network in AfPak who pledged allegiance to Abu-Bakr al-Baghdadi in 2014. ISIS-K had its own agenda and opposed the inter-Taliban nexus of TTA and TTP as well as US-backed Afghan setup.

Trump administration cancelled American military aid to Pakistan but made a deal with TTA to recall troops from Afghanistan in exhange for TTA not allowing Al-Qaeda Network to plot attacks on US and its assets around the world and pitched Intra-Afghan Dialogue as the way forward for Afghanistan. Biden administration scrapped the Intra-Afghan Dialogue and pulled the plug on the American effort to rebuild Afghanistan which led to collapse of the Afghan National Army (ANA) and TTA took control of the country. Many in Pakistan celebrated this development, and Imran Khan boasted that the Afghans had broken the shackles of slavery.

TTA is close to TTP and calls for negotiations between Pakistan and TTP to find a way forward for both. TTP calls for withdrawal of Pakistani troops from tribal areas on the other hand. This is why Pakistan continues to experience conflict situation across Durand Line in the present.

TTA also had talks with India, and India can attempt to increase its appeal to TTA through offers such as financial support and investment in Afghanistan infrastructure. To be fair, Afghanistan is a sovereign country and it can establish bilateral relationship with India.

Al-Qaeda Network and ISIS-K continue to exist in some shape or form in Afghanistan. US assassinated Ayman al-Zawahiri in Afghanistan in 2022. TTA remains close to Al-Qaeda Network but willing to counter ISIS-K.

CURRENT SITUATION

1.
NATO eliminated perpetrators of 9/11 across AfPak and have a deal with TTA to recall troops from Afghanistan in exhange for TTA not allowing Al-Qaeda Network to plot attacks on US and its assets around the world.

2. The Establishment's TTA gambit seems to have backfired:
  • Resurgence of TTP and its attacks on Pakistan security forces.
  • US - Pakistan bilateral relationship is at its lowest point with Joe Biden refusing to talk to any Pakistani leader.
3. The Establishment and PTI-led government were on the same page on the matter of supporting TTA and negotiating with TTP in 2021 but this relationship fell apart in 2022, and the Establishment's PDM gambit seems to have backfired as well with Pakistan plunging into economic crisis.

4. US - India bilateral relationship continues to blossom.

-----

War On Terror provided an opportunity to Pakistan to get rid of the so-called Mujahideen for supporting Al-Qaeda Network and reshape political landscape of Afghanistan with support of NATO, and establish meaningful bilateral relationships with members of the OECD bloc. This opportunity is missed and now the world has to deal with an Afghanistan that is lost to militants.

Now that TTA Is in charge of Afghanistan, it should focus on developing the country. Afghan culture can be preserved while allowing women to get education and work to support their families. TTA can decide what is taught in educational institutes of Afghanistan. These pursuits would make it easier for TTA to convince some countries to provide assistance and help rebuild Afghanistan.

Pakistan is in need of meaningful bilateral relationships with multiple countries around the world to rebuild its economy and meet its security needs. Take a look at the JF-17 Thunder program. Russian RD-93 is a low quality engine with significant serviceability requirements and a huge amount of sanctions imposed on Russia for its intervention in Ukraine is a problem in itself. China is yet to offer a high quality alternative to RD-93 engine for use in JF-17 variants even though China has figured out how to develop a jet engine with German support. Pakistan's global standing is such that it cannot get a high quality jet engine from any member of the OECD bloc for use in JF-17 variants. PAF has inducted J-10CE for a reason.

Scores of members on PDF think that everything is fine and dandy when it comes to Pakistan's security situation in the present. Bajwa's Freudian slip tells a different story.

As a citizen of Pakistan, I desire the very best for Pakistan's armed forces. But....
 
Who taught the so-called Mujahideen to fight a war with conventional forces? United States (US) and Pakistan in the 1980s to counter Soviet Union in Afghanistan. It was assumed that Soviet Union desired access to Indian Ocean but this theory is disputed. Soviet economic situation was not good in the 1980s and Soviet Union could NOT afford to fight a war all the way to Arabian Sea. Declassified records tell a different story: Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan to topple Amin regime because it managed to topple Soviet friendly Taraki regime and was looking forward to develop bilateral relations with US.

-----

One might argue that regime change experiment was as a costly mistake in view of its unexpected cascading effects (Critical View) but NATO military performance in Iraq has been brilliant and it has achieved its political aim of reshaping political landscape of Iraq (Objective View): Saddam regime was dismantled and Iraqi political landscape is restructured as a Federal Parliamentary Republic.

The 2003 Blitzkrieg to occupy Iraq and topple Saddam regime in world record time (Operation Iraqi Freedom)
The 2004 Battle of Fallujah to recover it from Iraqi insurgency - brilliantly executed
De-Baathification of Iraq - similar to De-Nazification of Germany
Leader of Al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) killed in 2006.
The 2008 Battle of Sadr City to recover it from Iraqi insurgency - brilliantly executed (Iraqi insurgency is defeated)
Iraq was stabilized and NATO occupation was called off by Obama administration in 2011.

But poor security situation in Syria and political blunders of Maliki administration in Iraq allowed survivors of Saddam regime and Al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) to regroup and establish the Islamic State of Iraq and Levant (ISIL) in 2013 and its call for jihad appealed to thousands from all over the world, and ISIL managed to spread across Syria and Iraq consequently.

NATO returned to Iraq and launched Operation Inherent Resolve to defeat ISIL during the (2014 - 2021) period - brilliantly executed. This success is in part owed to local actors in Iraq and Syria who chose to oppose ISIL with American support and stood firm in this cause.

So:

Saddam regime is victorious?
Iraqi insurgency is victorious?
ISIL is victorious?

Come on, bro. NATO has defeated these forces and achieved its political aim of reshaping the political landscape of Iraq.

Iraq is ruined of-course.

-----

NATO could NOT reshape political landscape of Afghanistan because the Establishment was fine with nabbing Al-Qaeda fighters but wanted to preserve TTA. The Establishment assumed that TTA will serve its interests and provide strategic depth to Pakistan as in the 1990s.

US objected to the Establishment's support to TTA and efforts to negotiate with Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) in times of Bush administration and Obama administration. The Establishment refused to abandon TTA but launched Operation Zarb-e-Azm to defeat TTP in North Waziristan in 2014. The narrative of Good Taliban and Bad Taliban was adopted to distinguish between TTA and TTP as well. But TTP found refuge in Afghanistan and US-backed Afghan setup was accused of supporting TTP. In reality, US-backed Afghan setup was fighting a war with the inter-Taliban nexus of TTA and TTP, and ISIS-K*, and had killed as well as imprisoned thousands of TTA, TTP, and ISIS-K fighters but it was not in control of the entire country and could not stop TTP from finding refuge in Afghanistan. Contrary to the perception of Good Taliban and Bad Taliban that was sold to Pakistani awaam, TTP managed to regroup under leadership of Noor Wali Mehsud with support of Al-Qaeda Network and TTA, and these groups have worked together to counter US-backed Afghan setup; this relationship is also noted in here and here. India had access to Afghanistan through Iran, and it was EASY for India to appeal to US-backed Afghan setup through investment in Afghanistan infrastructure and siding with its position on the issue of the Establishment's support to TTA. India could also provide arms to any TAKERS in the region.

*ISIS-K cadre is composed of former members of TTA, TTP, and Al-Qaeda Network in AfPak who pledged allegiance to Abu-Bakr al-Baghdadi in 2014. ISIS-K had its own agenda and opposed the inter-Taliban nexus of TTA and TTP as well as US-backed Afghan setup.

Trump administration cancelled American military aid to Pakistan but made a deal with TTA to recall troops from Afghanistan in exhange for TTA not allowing Al-Qaeda Network to plot attacks on US and its assets around the world and pitched Intra-Afghan Dialogue as the way forward for Afghanistan. Biden administration scrapped the Intra-Afghan Dialogue and pulled the plug on the American effort to rebuild Afghanistan which led to collapse of the Afghan National Army (ANA) and TTA took control of the country. Many in Pakistan celebrated this development, and Imran Khan boasted that the Afghans had broken the shackles of slavery.

TTA is close to TTP and calls for negotiations between Pakistan and TTP to find a way forward for both. TTP calls for withdrawal of Pakistani troops from tribal areas on the other hand. This is why Pakistan continues to experience conflict situation across Durand Line in the present.

TTA also had talks with India, and India can attempt to increase its appeal to TTA through offers such as financial support and investment in Afghanistan infrastructure. To be fair, Afghanistan is a sovereign country and it can establish bilateral relationship with India.

Al-Qaeda Network and ISIS-K continue to exist in some shape or form in Afghanistan. US assassinated Ayman al-Zawahiri in Afghanistan in 2022. TTA remains close to Al-Qaeda Network but willing to counter ISIS-K.

CURRENT SITUATION

1.
NATO eliminated perpetrators of 9/11 across AfPak and have a deal with TTA to recall troops from Afghanistan in exhange for TTA not allowing Al-Qaeda Network to plot attacks on US and its assets around the world.

2. The Establishment's TTA gambit seems to have backfired:
  • Resurgence of TTP and its attacks on Pakistan security forces.
  • US - Pakistan bilateral relationship is at its lowest point with Joe Biden refusing to talk to any Pakistani leader.
3. The Establishment and PTI-led government were on the same page on the matter of supporting TTA and negotiating with TTP in 2021 but this relationship fell apart in 2022, and the Establishment's PDM gambit seems to have backfired as well with Pakistan plunging into economic crisis.

4. US - India bilateral relationship continues to blossom.

-----

War On Terror provided an opportunity to Pakistan to get rid of the so-called Mujahideen for supporting Al-Qaeda Network and reshape political landscape of Afghanistan with support of NATO, and establish meaningful bilateral relationships with members of the OECD bloc. This opportunity is missed and now the world has to deal with an Afghanistan that is lost to militants.

Now that TTA Is in charge of Afghanistan, it should focus on developing the country. Afghan culture can be preserved while allowing women to get education and work to support their families. TTA can decide what is taught in educational institutes of Afghanistan. These pursuits would make it easier for TTA to convince some countries to provide assistance and help rebuild Afghanistan.

Pakistan is in need of meaningful bilateral relationships with multiple countries around the world to rebuild its economy and meet its security needs. Take a look at the JF-17 Thunder program. Russian RD-93 is a low quality engine with significant serviceability requirements and a huge amount of sanctions imposed on Russia for its intervention in Ukraine is a problem in itself. China is yet to offer a high quality alternative to RD-93 engine for use in JF-17 variants even though China has figured out how to develop a jet engine with German support. Pakistan's global standing is such that it cannot get a high quality jet engine from any member of the OECD bloc for use in JF-17 variants. PAF has inducted J-10CE for a reason.

Scores of members on PDF think that everything is fine and dandy when it comes to Pakistan's security situation in the present. Bajwa's Freudian slip tells a different story.

As a citizen of Pakistan, I desire the very best for Pakistan's armed forces. But....

Right this is called “blowback” our intervention in Afghanistan always leads to bad results, period. There is a reason sane Pakistanis warned against things like that. Trade with everyone mind your own business , and let the afghan mountain peoples do its thing. Some Sadly , pak military can’t really understand that, and unfortunately once the genie is out of the bottle it doesn’t go back in, not without serious repercussions. Many people seems to ignore the fact that this whole bloody mess started with USSR meddling and invasion. we rightly supported afghan mujahideen then Arabs others joined the fray and some mujahideen morphed into become terrorists wrecking havoc in our homeland , very depressing .. didn’t see that coming
 
Right this is called “blowback” our intervention in Afghanistan always leads to bad results, period. There is a reason sane Pakistanis warned against things like that. Trade with everyone mind your own business , and let the afghan mountain peoples do its thing. Some Sadly , pak military can’t really understand that, and unfortunately once the genie is out of the bottle it doesn’t go back in, not without serious repercussions. Many people seems to ignore the fact that this whole bloody mess started with USSR meddling and invasion. we rightly supported afghan mujahideen then Arabs others joined the fray and some mujahideen morphed into become terrorists wrecking havoc in our homeland , very depressing .. didn’t see that coming
Hope you were around in the 70s and 80s to make the above observation.

Pakistan had no option but to intervene in support of the so called "Afghan mountain people".

Perhaps you don't realize the challenges mounting for Pakistan then for you to suggest that Pakistan should have just closed its eyes and minded its own business. Our business was OUR security on our north western borders. Soviets did not take over Afghanistan just because they felt like invading a neighboring country. They had a plan to get close to the warm waters of the Arabian Sea.

Pakistan did let "Afghan mountain people" do their thing only to see them murdered, destroyed throughout 1978/79.

So just because you have suddenly found a "woke" sense to beat up the establishment/army because of the ongoing political mess for all things past and present, at least don't try to re-write the history as if Soviets were sending gifts to Pakistan and Afghanistan and we turned them down and took up "punga" with them for no reason. Just like in the American GWOT in Afghanistan, we did not have the option to ignore the occupation of Afghanistan and its millions upon millions of Pashtuns and non-Pashtuns.

Lastly, hindsight in always perfect. Non-intervention would have been worse for Pakistan.
 
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