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Young, Muslim and reflecting on Ayodhya

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Young, Muslim and reflecting on Ayodhya

India-Muslims_264912f.jpg
A Muslim couple in the old city area of New Delhi. The educated post-technology generation of Indian Muslims, innocently young during the benumbing years of the Ram Mandir movement, seems disconnected from the issue. File photo


Young Muslims say they want to move on but ask whether the Ayodhya verdict is in tune with the aspirations and dreams of young, modern India.

Travelling in Uttar Pradesh ahead of the September 30 Allahabad High Court verdict in the Ayodhya title suits, I was struck by the uniformity of Muslim opinion. Older Muslims said they wanted the verdict delivered quickly and whichever way, because that would bring to closure a wracking issue that had destabilised their lives and set them back by many valuable years.

The educated post-technology generation, innocently young during the benumbing years of the Ram Mandir movement, seemed disconnected from the issue. Not that they were unaware of the pain and insecurities of that time. Young or old, the heartland Muslim is a political animal, always well-informed and sharply intuitive. Yet conversations revealed an impatience to leave behind the past and embrace the future, however uncertain. There were complaints about biases, about being shut out of opportunities, about a sense of alienation. Yet even by these yardsticks, the world ahead was better for the young than the violence and darkness of the past. Their parents would know: All that mattered to the community in the decade after December 6, 1992 was their personal safety. Mulayam Singh in U.P. and Lalu Prasad in Bihar became saviours not because they delivered jobs but simply because they pledged to protect Muslim lives. A constant refrain heard in those troubled times was: “Hum hi nahin to aur kuch ka kya matlab?” (If we are not alive what use is anything else?) Who would want a return to that blighted past?

The “we-have-moved-on” buzz heard in U.P. became a roar in Delhi. It was everywhere. Television channels, hardwired to sensationalise the tiniest scrap of news, reverently mouthed the lines. Hindus said it. Muslims said it. Most of all, political parties, never known not to exploit an opportunity, said it. Verdict over, a fantastic, incredible quiet followed. There was not one incident reported from anywhere — not from Ayodhya, not from the rest of U.P., not from any of the known trouble spots, not from anywhere in India. The maturity of the average Indian was on spectacular display. For once, opinion-makers had got the mood right: India had indeed moved on. Equally heartening, Indians had proved that communal violence is never spontaneous, it is always politically engineered.

Unfortunately, the joy of this discovery was diminished by a disturbing realisation: The verdict itself was not in tune with the aspirations of a modern, democratic, young nation. The first dissenting notes emanated from the condemned world of “pseudo-secularists.” The three-way division of land, ordered by the judges, was based not on hard, irrefutable evidence but on the claimed faith and belief of a claimed Hindu majority. Did India's Hindus, all 80 million of them, believe that Lord Ram was born at the same, precise spot where the mosque's central dome once stood? The verdict implied so, and handed that portion of the mosque to the Lord himself, deeming his rights to be overriding because he was a “perpetual minor.” Was this the “majesty of law” that all sides respectfully invoked before the verdict, that Muslims in particular emphasised over and over?

Muslim organisations began to voice their disappointment. The Sunni Central Wakf Board, the main litigant on behalf of Muslims, correctly announced its decision to move the Supreme Court. But there were also the malcontents. The Shahi Imam of the Jama Masjid used the Friday prayers to deliver a fiery, rabble-rousing speech. Mr. Mulayam Singh began stoking Muslim fears. There was no mistaking the opportunism in these actions.

It was time, then, for some unbiased, untutored Muslim opinion. I decided to reconnect with the Muslim respondents I had met in U.P. I also decided to tap my circle of Muslim friends for young, educated contacts. The list included, among many others, the teenaged Shafat from Balrampur, Shamshad Ahmad from Barabanki, Ehsanbhai from Ayodhya, Aftab Alam, a teacher from Delhi University, Arif Ali, an M. Phil. student of Japanese studies at Jawaharlal Nehru University, Shamshad Khan, a researcher at the Institute of Defence Studies and Analysis, and Zafar Ahmad, a software consultant with a multi-national company.

They spoke calmly but clearly, a small minority with a sense of resignation but almost all others feeling pained that 21st century India could substitute reason with faith. There were no raised voices, no uncontrolled flashes of anger, no talk of invading the streets or starting an agitation. Mr. Shamshad Khan was “deeply disappointed” with the “extra-judicial” verdict but felt Muslims had other far more important matters to focus on: “Are we going to be held hostage to this issue forever?”

In truth, nobody wanted to be dragged down yet again by the Mandir-Masjid dispute. Without exception, everybody I spoke to said “never again; not down that path.” However, most people added a caveat: This did not imply unreserved acceptance of the verdict. I reminded them of the Muslim promise that the community would honour the verdict, no matter how it went. Laughed Mr. Aftab Alam: “How do we welcome a judgment that talks of theology in the 21st century? I would have felt the same way if a standing, living temple in independent India had been demolished and its demolition justified in the name of Islamic faith.”

As Mr. Alam and others saw it, there was no contradiction between wanting to move on and feeling dismayed by the judgment. Besides, how could India itself move on when the justice it offered went deep into the unknown past? Mr. Zafar Ahmad summed it up beautifully: “As a Muslim I may not question this judgment. But as an Indian I do because ultimately this issue is about Constitutional guarantees, about the preamble, about how modern India views itself. What precedents are we setting at a time we are projecting ourselves as an emerging superpower moving into the era of science, technology and reason? Are we now going to start digging underneath each time an issue of faith is raised?”

Another interesting point emerged from the discussions: The same verdict might have been acceptable to Muslims had the judges used secular reasoning to divide the property between Hindus and Muslims. A sagacious judgment would have been for the judges to dismiss the Muslim suit for being time-barred though accepting that the facts in the case were clear, well established and in favour of Muslims. A division on the grounds of joint worship could have followed thereafter. Instead, the court sanctified the 1949 political manoeuvre of physically moving the idols into position under the central dome; that crude, blatant act, watched over by a 40-50-strong mob, had become the faith of all Hindus.

Though perhaps not wanting it that way, older Muslims had found their identities entwined with the fate and survival of the Babri Masjid. In 1990, with Lal Krishna Advani astride his Ram rath, Mandir wahin banayenge (we will build the temple only there) had escalated into a war cry. Every Hindutva milestone crossed thereafter heightened the Muslim sense of isolation. The courts spoke reassuringly of maintaining the status quo. But the status quo had always altered — and always in favour of Hindus. In 1949, the installation of the idols became the status quo. In 1986, the opening of the locks became the status quo. In 1989, the shilanyas ceremony became the status quo. And finally, in 1992, the demolition of the mosque followed by the erection of the temple became the eternal status quo. That year, the Supreme Court severely censured the destroyers of the mosque. But in 2010, a lower court would stamp its imprimatur on that very status quo — by accepting that Ram lalla was born under Babri Masjid's central dome. The BJP's 1994 white paper on Ayodhya was almost prescient when it noted that the same courts that for years could not help Hindus came around once “the structure was physically occupied.”

Today's young Muslims are very different. They do not identify with the mosque. It is immaterial to them whether a mandir or a masjid comes up on the spot. But as some of them told The Hindu, they are Indians first and committed to the values held sacred by the Constitution. These values, including protection of minority rights, cannot but come into question when justice, delivered in a court of law, tilts visibly towards the majority. Even without the shadow of the Babri Masjid, life is not easy for Muslim boys and girls, a fact brought out most graphically by the Rajinder Sachar Committee report on the status of Muslims. The report situated the community at a level below the Hindu OBCs but above Dalits. It highlighted lack of access to education, bank credit and employment. It said Muslims bore the double cross of terrorism and appeasement.

For the Muslim sense of injustice not to grow, for young Muslims not to feel the way their parents' generation did, justice, in every manner of speaking, must be delivered to them, and must be seen to be delivered to them.

---------- Post added at 07:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 PM ----------

My sincere request to anyone who chooses to reply...Please do read the article.:wave:
 
Welcome back.

Please read beyond pro-Saffron views of Muslims too on Babri Mosque verdict .

Today's young Muslims are very different. They do not identify with the mosque. It is immaterial to them whether a mandir or a masjid comes up on the spot. But as some of them told The Hindu, they are Indians first and committed to the values held sacred by the Constitution.


Nobody identify itself by a moque or a mandir so this is such silly argument to justify the demolition of Babri Mosque and one sided verdict in favour of Hindus.

Above all why Muslims have prove themselves Indians by bowing to Hindus' criteria of being Indian first
 
Ayodhya judgment

By MIR GAZANFAR ALI ZAKI, JEDDAH

As the time is set for the pronouncement of the verdict in the Babri Masjid title suit after a long wait of 60 years on Sept. 24, not only India but possibly the entire Indian Subcontinent is waiting for the verdict which is bound to have far-reaching consequences.

It has taken 18 years for the government to take the first step toward solving the Ayodhya dispute and it says it need not be the final step. One hopes that the verdict will be accepted by people of all faiths and beliefs. It is high time to end all enmities and hatred which have been prevalent ever since our country was divided.

Let us forget the past and strive for a better future for all irrespective of caste, creed, religion etc. Let us regain our proud nation in its true value and essence by putting our hands together in spreading the magic of love. As all of us know God is loving, let us share His love and live in peace and harmony.

It is true that a handful of communal and anti-social elements will use the court verdict on Sept. 24 to incite violence in order to meet their selfish ends. We as patriotic Indians should ensure that we do not allow ourselves to be led into the hands of these vested interests who could be politicians, fanatical religious leaders or self-centered people. Political leaders and heads of religious communities should cooperate in maintaining peace and calm.

Neither side should get provoked or provoke its followers to indulge in violence if the judgment is not in its favor. Media houses should rise to the occasion and carry the message of peace to all corners of the country. The government should take all necessary steps to maintain peace and order.

The prime minister’s appeal to the nation through the publication of advertisement is welcome. Whatever the outcome of the judgment, let sanity prevail. Both communities should refrain from passing the baton of hatred to the young, peace-loving generation.

Arab News, Saudi Arabia

Ayodhya judgment - Arab News
 
Welcome back.

Please read beyond pro-Saffron views of Muslims too on Babri Mosque verdict .




Nobody identify itself by a moque or a mandir so this is such silly argument to justify the demolition of Babri Mosque and one sided verdict in favour of Hindus.

Above all why Muslims have prove themselves Indians by bowing to Hindus' criteria of being Indian first

I must say you do not anything constructing to say expect bash India/Hindu etc. But it is hardly surprising.
 
Welcome back.

Please read beyond pro-Saffron views of Muslims too on Babri Mosque verdict .




Nobody identify itself by a moque or a mandir so this is such silly argument to justify the demolition of Babri Mosque and one sided verdict in favour of Hindus.

Above all why Muslims have prove themselves Indians by bowing to Hindus' criteria of being Indian first

Who is justifying the demolition

Like mentioned before ,its a criminal act to destroy property of religious and historical significance and the perpetrators will be brought o justice.
 
Unfortunately, the joy of this discovery was diminished by a disturbing realisation: The verdict itself was not in tune with the aspirations of a modern, democratic, young nation. The first dissenting notes emanated from the condemned world of “pseudo-secularists.” The three-way division of land, ordered by the judges, was based not on hard, irrefutable evidence but on the claimed faith and belief of a claimed Hindu majority. Did India's Hindus, all 80 million of them, believe that Lord Ram was born at the same, precise spot where the mosque's central dome once stood? The verdict implied so, and handed that portion of the mosque to the Lord himself, deeming his rights to be overriding because he was a “perpetual minor.” Was this the “majesty of law” that all sides respectfully invoked before the verdict, that Muslims in particular emphasised over and over?

This one point of "Faith taking precedence over law" canard has almost tarnished what is an excellent judgement combining law and practicality in the right proportions..

Let me explain why.

First the petitions of the Sunni Waqf board and the Nirmohi Akhara were dismissed on a purely techinical grounds of limitation and no faith played a role in it.

Secondly the court has not done charity by handing out 1/3 to Muslims as claimed by many Muslim leaders.Rubbish.

There are two perfectly legal points to the court's decision:

  • None of the three parties could convince the court that they were the sole owners of this land.
  • Second is Adverse possession - Since all 3 parties had enjoyed joint ownership over the land for long periods of time ,the court was legally bound to divide the land among the three litigants.


It was time, then, for some unbiased, untutored Muslim opinion. I decided to reconnect with the Muslim respondents I had met in U.P. I also decided to tap my circle of Muslim friends for young, educated contacts. The list included, among many others, the teenaged Shafat from Balrampur, Shamshad Ahmad from Barabanki, Ehsanbhai from Ayodhya, Aftab Alam, a teacher from Delhi University, Arif Ali, an M. Phil. student of Japanese studies at Jawaharlal Nehru University, Shamshad Khan, a researcher at the Institute of Defence Studies and Analysis, and Zafar Ahmad, a software consultant with a multi-national company.

They spoke calmly but clearly, a small minority with a sense of resignation but almost all others feeling pained that 21st century India could substitute reason with faith. There were no raised voices, no uncontrolled flashes of anger, no talk of invading the streets or starting an agitation. Mr. Shamshad Khan was “deeply disappointed” with the “extra-judicial” verdict but felt Muslims had other far more important matters to focus on: “Are we going to be held hostage to this issue forever?”

It may be bitter ,but the truth is if the court had given the full land to the Muslims,it would have made a deep scar in the minds of the Hindus of whom majority equate Ayodhya with the birth place of Ram and hold a sacred place for it.

In that case law might have triumphed (according to the Muslims) but reality would have taken a hit and a chance at re-conciliation a much worse hit.

In truth, nobody wanted to be dragged down yet again by the Mandir-Masjid dispute. Without exception, everybody I spoke to said “never again; not down that path.” However, most people added a caveat: This did not imply unreserved acceptance of the verdict. I reminded them of the Muslim promise that the community would honour the verdict, no matter how it went. Laughed Mr. Aftab Alam: “How do we welcome a judgment that talks of theology in the 21st century? I would have felt the same way if a standing, living temple in independent India had been demolished and its demolition justified in the name of Islamic faith.”

As Mr. Alam and others saw it, there was no contradiction between wanting to move on and feeling dismayed by the judgment. Besides, how could India itself move on when the justice it offered went deep into the unknown past? Mr. Zafar Ahmad summed it up beautifully: “As a Muslim I may not question this judgment. But as an Indian I do because ultimately this issue is about Constitutional guarantees, about the preamble, about how modern India views itself. What precedents are we setting at a time we are projecting ourselves as an emerging superpower moving into the era of science, technology and reason? Are we now going to start digging underneath each time an issue of faith is raised?”

Another interesting point emerged from the discussions: The same verdict might have been acceptable to Muslims had the judges used secular reasoning to divide the property between Hindus and Muslims. A sagacious judgment would have been for the judges to dismiss the Muslim suit for being time-barred though accepting that the facts in the case were clear, well established and in favour of Muslims. A division on the grounds of joint worship could have followed thereafter. Instead, the court sanctified the 1949 political manoeuvre of physically moving the idols into position under the central dome; that crude, blatant act, watched over by a 40-50-strong mob, had become the faith of all Hindus.

Same canard of religious belief is already explained before.



Today's young Muslims are very different. They do not identify with the mosque. It is immaterial to them whether a mandir or a masjid comes up on the spot. But as some of them told The Hindu, they are Indians first and committed to the values held sacred by the Constitution. These values, including protection of minority rights, cannot but come into question when justice, delivered in a court of law, tilts visibly towards the majority. Even without the shadow of the Babri Masjid, life is not easy for Muslim boys and girls, a fact brought out most graphically by the Rajinder Sachar Committee report on the status of Muslims. The report situated the community at a level below the Hindu OBCs but above Dalits. It highlighted lack of access to education, bank credit and employment. It said Muslims bore the double cross of terrorism and appeasement.

For the Muslim sense of injustice not to grow, for young Muslims not to feel the way their parents' generation did, justice, in every manner of speaking, must be delivered to them, and must be seen to be delivered to them.


what more justice do the Muslims want or what judgement they will accept.? I find it hard to fathom it.

This judgement has givena golden chance for re-conciliation and both community leaders instead of sticking to rigid positions must come forward and negotiate to bury this issue once and for all.

But putting the burden on the Hindus and making the Muslims as some kind of victims is totally un-acceptable.

The author had quoted the Sachar commmitte report that Muslims are very backward. Anyone asked why they are where they are.

Not everything can be attributed to dicrimination - whatever it is - it has also got to do something with their mindset.Unless the Muslims of India come out of this mindset that they are always victimised there is going to be no development.

p.s.:I find the Muslims and their leaders crying hoarse on "religion over law"...I would like to ask them one thing - where were you guys when Shah Bano case happened.?
 
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Welcome back.

Please read beyond pro-Saffron views of Muslims too on Babri Mosque verdict .




Nobody identify itself by a moque or a mandir so this is such silly argument to justify the demolition of Babri Mosque and one sided verdict in favour of Hindus.

Above all why Muslims have prove themselves Indians by bowing to Hindus' criteria of being Indian first

We request you the same, let me rephrase "Please read beyond Pakistani views of Muslims too on Babri Mosque verdict .
"

As for the second bolded part, you only want Indian Muslims to prove what you want! since you are viewing this is a "Pakistani Muslim", lets make this clear Indian Muslims do not want to have anything to do with Pakistan for reasons you already know!
(I find it amusing that Pakistanis (some) took to the streets)

As far as the demolition is concerned its a separate issue and should not be read together with the judgment. There are hardly any Indians who support the demolition and we, as much as you want action against them..so lets stick to the topic!
 
Welcome back.

Thank you very much ma'am.

Nobody identify itself by a moque or a mandir so this is such silly argument to justify the demolition of Babri Mosque and one sided verdict in favour of Hindus.

Above all why Muslims have prove themselves Indians by bowing to Hindus' criteria of being Indian first

You perhaps couldn't understand the 'purpose' of the article.

The purpose was not to show how patriotic Indian muslims are or how subservient to hindus they are, the purpose of the article was to show how the young generation of Muslims in India has 'moved on'.

Nothing more than that.
 
Also I wanted to ask this one:

On doing what more will the Hindus be considered secular -

  • Already agreed to 1/3 land on one of its most sacred places
  • Already gives Haj subsidy to Muslims while they dont get any subsidy to go to Amarnath or Kashi or to Rameshwaram.
  • Doesnt dicriminate them based upon religion and equal oppurtunities given to all
  • Already gives them a separate civil law
  • Already gives them reservations in job,education
  • readily bans any novel,film etc that is considered derogatory towards their feelings while at the same time maintaining "freedom of speech" in case any Hindu godess is drawn nude.

The Chancellor of a truly secular state - Germany - proudly admits her countries Christian and Jewish roots ; Will any Indian politician have the guts to say the same (barring the BJP) and even if they say will our pseudo-secular media leave them in peace.?

Is this secularism ?? ....no - its pseudo-secularism which is much worse than majoritarianism
 
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Also I wanted to ask this one:

On doing what more will the Hindus be considered secular -

  • Already agreed to 1/3 land on one of its most sacred places
  • Already gives Haj subsidy to Muslims while they dont get any subsidy to go to Amarnath or Kashi or to Rameshwaram.
  • Doesnt dicriminate them based upon religion and equal oppurtunities given to all
  • Already gives them a separate civil law
  • Already gives them reservations in job,education
  • readily bans any novel,film etc that is considered derogatory towards their feelings while at the same time maintaining "freedom of speech" in case any Hindu godess is drawn nude.

The Chancellor of a truly secular state - Germany - proudly admits her countries Christian and Jewish roots ; Will any Indian politician have the guts to say the same (barring the BJP) and even if they say will our pseudo-secular media leave them in peace.?

Is this secularism ?? ....no - its pseudo-secularism which is much worse than majoritarianism
i agree with you sir on this point, secularism to most means minority appeasement and majority bashing. people here do not remember that the ASI report was the biggest influence on the judgement which clearly stated that the mas was build on the site of a hindu temple and even the material of the destroyed temple was also used for the construction of the mosque
 
i agree with you sir on this point, secularism to most means minority appeasement and majority bashing. people here do not remember that the ASI report was the biggest influence on the judgement which clearly stated that the mas was build on the site of a hindu temple and even the material of the destroyed temple was also used for the construction of the mosque

Does that mean you go ahead and destroy the mosque? How does that make you any different from the original barbarian.

I don't understand you religious types. You guys spout how God is omnipresent and all powerful but still think you need to defend him from other people. Say that the whole world belongs to your god but feel the need to fight over pieces of land in his/her name.
 
Does that mean you go ahead and destroy the mosque? How does that make you any different from the original barbarian.

I don't understand you religious types. You guys spout how God is omnipresent and all powerful but still think you need to defend him from other people. Say that the whole world belongs to your god but feel the need to fight over pieces of land in his/her name.

No one says that the destruction of the mosque was a correct one ,even though as Swapan Dasgupta said in a media debate that in the INdia of 1992 there were conflicting emotions and political one-upmanship between the Muslims and the HIndus.

After the Shah Bano case ,there was a genuine feeling of minority appeasement among the HIndus and even that was one of the factors for the destruction of the mosque.

Whatever said ,it was a wrong move and a separate criminal case is pending,so need to link up these two.
 
No one says that the destruction of the mosque was a correct one ,even though as Swapan Dasgupta said in a media debate that in the INdia of 1992 there were conflicting emotions and political one-upmanship between the Muslims and the HIndus.

After the Shah Bano case ,there was a genuine feeling of minority appeasement among the HIndus and even that was one of the factors for the destruction of the mosque.

Whatever said ,it was a wrong move and a separate criminal case is pending,so need to link up these two.

Forget the demolition. How do you explain the installation of idols in 1949? Did anyone get prosecuted for that? We are failing our minorities.

As a part of Majority, I fear that this judgement gives more space to the fringe elements within my community who like to whip up passion based on religion to forward their own political goals.
 

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