Worst drop EVER: US economy plunges over 31% in second quarter

[That Guy]

First of all, no, the US isn't on the verge of an imminent collapse.

Second, you'd better hope it doesn't collapse, otherwise the entire world is screwed. The US economy is linked to every major economy in the world, a US collapse would lead to a global collapse.

And dont think that you as an individual won't feel its effects, you will be the first to do so, especially if you're poor.

 

[Nasr]

People have been making your same dire collapse predictions every year about the debt since Ronald Reagan was in office in the early 1980's. Why is the collapse so imminent now vs one of the previous 40 years?

40 years ago the game was rigged, Soviets were sell outs, one side you Zionists in the West and the other side you had the Bolsheviks in the East. America has had its chance at the top, and it did with that chance ain't no different from what it's predecessor (britain) did. The british empire drowned itself in debt due to wars with france. As a direct result of which it lost the american colonies.

Today america stands far worse than britain, because it has to face two powerful nations which would challenge it's hegemony. America has drowned itself in decades of wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen and spent (more like flushed down the toilet) trillions of dollars in defense spending. Basic arithmetics tells us that america's trillions of $$$ spending frenzy, coupled with adversaries such Russia and China, makes unsustainable for the country to carry on, let alone prevail.

 

[letsrock]

40 years ago the game was rigged, Soviets were sell outs, one side you Zionists in the West and the other side you had the Bolsheviks in the East. America has had its chance at the top, and it did with that chance ain't no different from what it's predecessor (britain) did. The british empire drowned itself in debt due to wars with france. As a direct result of which it lost the american colonies.

Today america stands far worse than britain, because it has to face two powerful nations which would challenge it's hegemony. America has drowned itself in decades of wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen and spent (more like flushed down the toilet) trillions of dollars in defense spending. Basic arithmetics tells us that america's trillions of $$$ spending frenzy, coupled with adversaries such Russia and China, makes unsustainable for the country to carry on, let alone prevail.

If your soliders aren't dying that much, your country is not getting bombed and most of weaponry is made inhouse then wars really aren't that expensive. America might say every tomahawk missile is 2 million usd. but what is 2 million usd ? the material cost of the metal tube with the silicon and explosives etc will not even be 1000 USD assuming everything is procured locally. Most of the million plus cost in design, engineering which is already spent or will anyway be spent by US for military development. The additional manufacturing costs i doubt will even touch 100,000 USD.

So if 2000 of these missiles are fired. It might show up as 2 billion usd debt on us government but actual cost to US economy could be as low as 2 million usd. The remaining 998 million possibly going in to pockets of defense contractors who will spiral the regular economy with their spending and will end back in to uncle sam lap as tax money.

So as long as human costs are minimized and homeland is secured and you country is where rich people spend their war profits then wars are not necessarily that expensive.

 

[Beast]

Modern economic system is increasingly DEBT driven worldwide.

American DEBT is also a source of revenue generation (e.g. Treasury Bonds):

How the Federal Government Borrows Money
The federal government borrows money from the public by issuing securities—bills, notes, and bonds—through the Treasury. Treasury securities are attractive to investors because they are:

• Backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government
• Offered in a wide range of maturities
• Exempt from state and local taxes
• Mostly marketable, meaning they can be resold in the financial market (a small portion are nonmarketable and can’t be resold, like U.S. Savings Bonds).

Investors can easily trade Treasury securities because there are many people interested in buying and selling them at any given time. Investors are willing to pay more for this safety and liquidity—leading to lower borrowing costs (interest on the debt) for the government.

Here is a breakdown of the investors and holders of intragovernmental debt (debt held by government accounts):

Details in the following link: https://www.gao.gov/americas_fiscal_future?t=federal_debt

Important considerations are BALANCE OF PAYMENTS and Managing the DEBT respectively.

Modern economic system is a complex mix of POSITIVES and NEGATIVES in theory and practice. Things are to be balanced and managed in the long-term.

Russian DEBT is very small (POSITIVE?) but this does not suggest that Russian economy is in good shape and/or worth investing in (NEGATIVE?).

Look at the sheer size of American economy in comparison to that of others:

Some of the greatest minds are in the works to manage a economy that big.

There are contingency arrangements in place as well:

Modern economic system is also subject to SPECULATIONS in practice. You are taking these too seriously... Economists think differently - they have the mindset to take on challenges.

Lol.. These American self make chart are nothing but just to avoid the attention from the immenient of US collapse.

Look at these charts and prediction , nothing but load of rubbish for self bragging by American or western analyst.

 

[Nasr]

If your soliders aren't dying that much, your country is not getting bombed and most of weaponry is made inhouse then wars really aren't that expensive. America might say every tomahawk missile is 2 million usd. but what is 2 million usd ? the material cost of the metal tube with the silicon and explosives etc will not even be 1000 USD assuming everything is procured locally. Most of the million plus cost in design, engineering which is already spent or will anyway be spent by US for military development. The additional manufacturing costs i doubt will even touch 100,000 USD.

Buddy, since the time of the Romans and before, there has always been a cost of war. The british, who amassed an the largest empire in history, the pioneers in industrialization, drowned in debt and their end became blatantly clear, in 1956. So keep, thinking what you're thinking, history tells us otherwise!!!

So if 2000 of these missiles are fired. It might show up as 2 billion usd debt on us government but actual cost to US economy could be as low as 2 million usd. The remaining 998 million possibly going in to pockets of defense contractors who will spiral the regular economy with their spending and will end back in to uncle sam lap as tax money.

Well I don't know whether you've realized this or not, but it's the defense contractors, the war profiteers who have made the money. Corporate America is the other criminal that plunders america. And if you think these parasites spend on taxes, well I would say that you need to wake up and smell the coffee.

So as long as human costs are minimized and homeland is secured and you country is where rich people spend their war profits then wars are not necessarily that expensive.

If only it were that simple, alas it ain't and we live in the real world. The real world where corporations make all the money, and the average person struggles to put food on the table. You're living in disney land if you think that war doesn't cost money.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Where does it say in the article, "Impending economic collapse of america, well on its way"?

Ahahhahaha you asking people who are anti U S that question? . Since when has objectivity being the priority of such an obvious bias? Lol
I have been hearing "the collapse of the US is imminent" for a very long time since I was still a little boy, yet they are still there and were even the fastest growing major developed country until recently ( this is despite their massive economy and already ultra developed status) before Covid. So don't even bother trying to talk sense to this people. Lol. They are similar to those claiming and hoping China will soon collapse. All members of the same gang but with different bias towards the country they support. Lol. Matter of fact: US or China aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[letsrock]

Buddy, since the time of the Romans and before, there has always been a cost of war. The british, who amassed an the largest empire in history, the pioneers in industrialization, drowned in debt and their end became blatantly clear, in 1956. So keep, thinking what you're thinking, history tells us otherwise!!!

British were impacted only when the war came to them. Destroying their cities, killing in large number their soldiers. Otherwise they ran wars across continents with no big issues - infact growing their wealth.

Well I don't know whether you've realized this or not, but it's the defense contractors, the war profiteers who have made the money. Corporate America is the other criminal that plunders america. And if you think these parasites spend on taxes, well I would say that you need to wake up and smell the coffee.

I did not say they alone pay taxes. Though they will to some extent. But their spending will - they will buy expensive cars, yatchs that pay sales tax and employees who sell them pay payroll taxes and income taxes. As long these people spend the money in your country - and usa is the playground of rich - then it stimulates local money. Then the question comes which is better - govt spending on infra/education or private spending on consumption. In developing countries like china govt spending is best but in america it might be other one.

If only it were that simple, alas it ain't and we live in the real world. The real world where corporations make all the money, and the average person struggles to put food on the table. You're living in disney land if you think that war doesn't cost money.

Agreed it is not simple. But i made some good points.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

40 years ago the game was rigged, Soviets were sell outs, one side you Zionists in the West and the other side you had the Bolsheviks in the East. America has had its chance at the top, and it did with that chance ain't no different from what it's predecessor (britain) did. The british empire drowned itself in debt due to wars with france. As a direct result of which it lost the american colonies.

Today america stands far worse than britain, because it has to face two powerful nations which would challenge it's hegemony. America has drowned itself in decades of wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen and spent (more like flushed down the toilet) trillions of dollars in defense spending. Basic arithmetics tells us that america's trillions of $$$ spending frenzy, coupled with adversaries such Russia and China, makes unsustainable for the country to carry on, let alone prevail.

LOL! What useless reasoning. Even worse justification than previous years threads...where some actually had some points.

Mods can we make a new sticky thread:
"The impending US economic and dollar collapse TROLL thread"

 

[Nasr]

LOL! What useless reasoning. Even worse justification than previous years threads...where some actually had some points.

Mods can we make a new sticky thread:
"The impending US economic and dollar collapse TROLL thread"

It's alright, not your fault bud. Carry on believing what you believe in. We shall see how things turn out in the end.

 

[Nasr]

British were impacted only when the war came to them. Destroying their cities, killing in large number their soldiers. Otherwise they ran wars across continents with no big issues - infact growing their wealth.

And you think that once the us collapses economically, all those nukes being under no sort of control, wouldn't compel other nations to take action before they end up in the hands of criminals? America doesn't really have good track record when it comes to that. By all accounts, americans exhibit a "trigger happy" mindset, from school mass shootings, to movie theater mass shootings, to american Police shooting people like as if they weren't professionals, rather gung-ho.

As for britain, the facts on the ground still remain just that, facts. britain was in debt due wars with france, as a direct result of which, its colonies were lost as americans revolted and the french were all too keen to assist the yanks.

I did not say they alone pay taxes. Though they will to some extent. But their spending will - they will buy expensive cars, yatchs that pay sales tax and employees who sell them pay payroll taxes and income taxes. As long these people spend the money in your country - and usa is the playground of rich - then it stimulates local money. Then the question comes which is better - govt spending on infra/education or private spending on consumption. In developing countries like china govt spending is best but in america it might be other one.

If the rich alone could make the country keep running, with its citizens having a normal quality of life with jobs, home and have provisions for medical and education services. Well that would be the day, won't it! But reality is far from that utopian notion. Fact of the matter is taxes have been cut for the rich, periodically over the decades. These corporations, in return for their tax cuts, moved jobs for manufacturing outside of america. Why? Because they are a bunch of greedy $wine$ and so are their alleged investors. Reality on the ground is the rich have become richer and the poor have been imprisoned in permanent poverty. The system has failed, what once drove innovation and competitiveness in the country, has now boiled down to a handful of corporations that own everything. What more, they are increasingly becoming independent of human labor. With the rise of robotics, and assisted A.I it has become apparent that humans can be discarded as useful employment.

The american private sector debt is well over $50 trillion. Common sense and calculative probability states that this is unsustainable and has crossed the tipping point. Corporations, Wall Street have had their plunder for the last century, american middle class is an extinct specie and regardless of how one might wanna spin the wheel, the result is the same .... the clear and present collapse of america. You can't go on fighting wars for decades, spend trillions of dollars on military, subjugate friends and foes alike to your will, go trigger happy on economic sanctions and not expect any blowback.

Agreed it is not simple. But i made some good points.

A healthy discussion requires opposing views. Human intellect has more than just emotionally driven rants.

 

[letsrock]

And you think that once the us collapses economically, all those nukes being under no sort of control, wouldn't compel other nations to take action before they end up in the hands of criminals? America doesn't really have good track record when it comes to that. By all accounts, americans exhibit a "trigger happy" mindset, from school mass shootings, to movie theater mass shootings, to american Police shooting people like as if they weren't professionals, rather gung-ho.

As for britain, the facts on the ground still remain just that, facts. britain was in debt due wars with france, as a direct result of which, its colonies were lost as americans revolted and the french were all too keen to assist the yanks.



If the rich alone could make the country keep running, with its citizens having a normal quality of life with jobs, home and have provisions for medical and education services. Well that would be the day, won't it! But reality is far from that utopian notion. Fact of the matter is taxes have been cut for the rich, periodically over the decades. These corporations, in return for their tax cuts, moved jobs for manufacturing outside of america. Why? Because they are a bunch of greedy $wine$ and so are their alleged investors. Reality on the ground is the rich have become richer and the poor have been imprisoned in permanent poverty. The system has failed, what once drove innovation and competitiveness in the country, has now boiled down to a handful of corporations that own everything. What more, they are increasingly becoming independent of human labor. With the rise of robotics, and assisted A.I it has become apparent that humans can be discarded as useful employment.

The american private sector debt is well over $50 trillion. Common sense and calculative probability states that this is unsustainable and has crossed the tipping point. Corporations, Wall Street have had their plunder for the last century, american middle class is an extinct specie and regardless of how one might wanna spin the wheel, the result is the same .... the clear and present collapse of america. You can't go on fighting wars for decades, spend trillions of dollars on military, subjugate friends and foes alike to your will, go trigger happy on economic sanctions and not expect any blowback.



A healthy discussion requires opposing views. Human intellect has more than just emotionally driven rants.

First off you really dont know how to read in the sense you dont pay attention. I said clearly wars that lead to cost of lives and infra destruction will have impacts. Britain wars with france were fought on its doorstep and they are more or less equal powers. But britain wars in India, thailand, china, africa had no negative impact on UK in fact it increased its wealth. Modern American wars are more like British wars in colonies rather than british wars with europeans.

American system works well enough for a significant portion of american population (not jsut ultra rich) to keep it going.

You are way too emotional to objectively analyze facts here.

 

[siegecrossbow]

They’ve been predicting the imminent collapse of the U.S. economy for the past fifty years. What else is new?

 

[Team Blue]

I really doubt our economy is in any danger of collapsing.

It fucking sucks if you're not already rich but this wouldn't be the first time in history that's been the case.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

It's alright, not your fault bud. Carry on believing what you believe in. We shall see how things turn out in the end.

When is this end? I've been hearing it is has been well on its way every year for over 40 years. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. If you don't have anything new to add to this what is the purpose of this thread?

 

[Nasr]

First off you really dont know how to read in the sense you dont pay attention. I said clearly wars that lead to cost of lives and infra destruction will have impacts. Britain wars with france were fought on its doorstep and they are more or less equal powers. But britain wars in India, thailand, china, africa had no negative impact on UK in fact it increased its wealth.

Oh I read what you posted, and got what your point was. You can keep assuming that america is untouchable, but it's not. You keep thinking that american economy is too big and powerful to ever fail, it will. But don't take my word for it, the collapse gonna happen.

America's perpetual wars, Wall Street's open ended plunder, the near extinct american middle class, the eroding petrodollar and the steady decline of american society, are clear indicators that america will collapse under it's own debt, it's failing economy, mushrooming unemployment. Some think that america can survive anything, when it survived the great depression. Think again, what is coming, would make the great depression look like a cake walk.

Modern American wars are more like British wars in colonies rather than british wars with europeans.

Keep telling yourself that. Two decades of unchallenged supremacy has gotten to america's head. The landscape has changed, the game isn't rigged anymore and Russia is not the Soviet Union. When push comes to shove (and Washington DC is desperately trying to shove Russia), there won't be any holding back, Russia will nuke america and it's allies, when pushed too far.

The way the american leadership is behaving, is like they are begging for a war. And that only indicates one thing, america cannot sustain without a war. This time around, there won't be any cat n mouse games like it was with the Soviets. You push too far, China and Russia will respond with a crippling blow. Neither would take any bull$hit from america.

So your theory on american wars is slightly off tangent here bud.

When is this end? I've been hearing about it every year for over 40 years. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. If you don't have anything new to add to this what is the purpose of this thread?

It's coming, don't get your panties in a knot. When it happens, you'd wish it never did. It's not like everyone wanted this, america is bringing this upon itself.