World War II: USSR Front

[Desert Fox]

The USSR was receiving free military aid from America through the "Lend Lease Act", many American made early P series fighter/attackers as well as Sherman Tanks were shot down and knocked out by Germans on the Eastern Front. The soviet military machine only picked up pace in the late 1943 and was up and running in 1944-45.

 

[King Solomon]

The red army was nothing but a army of rapists and beasts under the command of Bolsheviks who alone are responsible for the deaths of more than 60 million Russians, Ukrainians, and Poles.

Of course, not all Red Army soldiers were rapists and beast like.

PS, today in Russia NAZI sympathizers are on the rise, the country which supposedly suffered the most at the hands of NAZI "racism"; this is the aftermath of Bolshevik Communism.

That is incorrect. The red army was fiercely patriotic to Russian motherland and majority of atrocities were committed by Nazi troops.

Hitler's presumption was that even if he loses on eastern front, the Red army won't have the capacity to counter-attack. He was proved gravely wrong. After defending Moscow, the Red army launched a massive counter attack which ended up right in Berlin. It is the Red Army who marched to Berlin, not US or British forces.

There may be one or two nazi sympathisers. They are everywhere not only in Russia. But I do not notice any such substantial trends.

The USSR was receiving free military aid from America through the "Lend Lease Act", many American made early P series fighter/attackers as well as Sherman Tanks were shot down and knocked out by Germans on the Eastern Front. The soviet military machine only picked up pace in the late 1943 and was up and running in 1944-45.

The land lease act was aimed primarily at Britain not really USSR. USSR only received nominal help from the other Allies but definitely not decisive help.

The thing is, Stalin fired the army high command and carried out a purge around 1938, that weakened the Red army substantially and Hitler decided to attack at a time when the Red army was comparatively weak and demoralized.

Well, Moscow was defended in 1942 and the tide of the battle turned after that.

 

[Birbal]

The thing is, Stalin fired the army high command and carried out a purge around 1938, that weakened the Red army substantially and Hitler decided to attack at a time when the Red army was comparatively weak and demoralized.

It weakened it in the short term but was good in the long term. In the short term, the reorganization of the military command was soon to be completed when Hitler attacked, so the Red Army was in a precarious position. But most of the people that Stalin purged were corrupt officers or bureaucrats that had gotten lazy from sitting in the military command.

In fact, many of Hitler's generals believed that it was because of Stalin's purge that the Red Army was able to fight back so well.

 

[Sashan]

The land lease act was aimed primarily at Britain not really USSR. USSR only received nominal help from the other Allies but definitely not decisive help.

The thing is, Stalin fired the army high command and carried out a purge around 1938, that weakened the Red army substantially and Hitler decided to attack at a time when the Red army was comparatively weak and demoralized.

Well, Moscow was defended in 1942 and the tide of the battle turned after that.

USA provided more than $10 billion dollars to Soviet Union which was massive at that time. The significant portion of US aid went to Britain and USSR.

 

[Birbal]

As for lend-lease and other American participation, I as an American can be proud of our role in that war, while acknowledging that the Soviets did most of the fighting and would have won the war on their own.

While the Soviets would have won the war themselves, there can be no question that without lend-lease the civilian casualties in Russia would have been even higher.

 

[Desert Fox]

That is incorrect. The red army was fiercely patriotic to Russian motherland and majority of atrocities were committed by Nazi troops.

Is that why the Red army was raping and pillaging on its way to Berlin, even raping own Russian women?

In a Commie country, Nationalism and Patriotism is forbidden, in fact Stalin executed thousands of his officers and generals just for these reasons as well as others.

1,500,000 Russians and Ukrainians fought under the Wehrmacht and SS against the Red army.

Hitler's presumption was that even if he loses on eastern front, the Red army won't have the capacity to counter-attack. He was proved gravely wrong. After defending Moscow, the Red army launched a massive counter attack which ended up right in Berlin. It is the Red Army who marched to Berlin, not US or British forces.

The Red army was receiving huge amounts of material support from the US under the "Lend Lease Act", otherwise they were ill equipped initially in the war, 5 soldiers shared a single rifle. Red army couldn't even invade Finland without being repelled multiple times. Hitler's goal was to strike the USSR when it was unprepared, unfortunately his timing was a few months late and by the Winter of 1941 his Armies were suffering from large casualties not at the hands of Red army, but at the hands of one of the worst winters in history.

There may be one or two nazi sympathisers. They are everywhere not only in Russia. But I do not notice any such substantial trends.

Russia alone has more NAZI sympathizers than any other country in the World, in fact all of former Soviet Republics of Eastern Europe have a large and growing neo-NAZI movement, you just don't see it in the mainstream media, why would they show it though?


Its ironical how former USSR's have largest neo-Nazi members when one would expect them to hate German guts due to the decades of anti-Nazi indoctrination these former USSR's have been through.

The land lease act was aimed primarily at Britain not really USSR. USSR only received nominal help from the other Allies but definitely not decisive help.

"A total of $50.1 billion (equivalent to $647 billion today) worth of supplies were shipped: $31.4 billion to Britain, $11.3 billion to the Soviet Union, $3.2 billion to France, and $1.6 billion to China"

11.3 Billion in today's money is a considerable amount and certainly not "minimal".

The thing is, Stalin fired the army high command and carried out a purge around 1938, that weakened the Red army substantially and Hitler decided to attack at a time when the Red army was comparatively weak and demoralized.

Well, Moscow was defended in 1942 and the tide of the battle turned after that.

The Soviets didn't defend Moscow, if anything halted the German advance it was the harsh winter which froze the oil in their Tanks and Trucks, the Luftwaffe was grounded, and this gave enough time to Stalin to relocate his factories and machinery to the East away from area of conflict and prepare his army for counter offensives in the spring and summer.

The Red army was incapable of evicting the Germans from USSR territory before spring/summer 1942.

 

[Sashan]

The Soviets didn't defend Moscow, if anything halted the German advance it was the harsh winter which froze the oil in their Tanks and Trucks, the Luftwaffe was grounded, and this gave enough time to Stalin to relocate his factories and machinery to the East away from area of conflict and prepare his army for counter offensives in the spring and summer.

The Red army was incapable of evicting the Germans from USSR territory before spring/summer 1942.

Hitler was so much involved in capturing Stalingrad which cost him the war. He could have easily bypassed the city but his ego did not let him do that.

 

[Birbal]

btw, S-19, don't bother debating Desert Fox. He's a neo-nazi.

 

[Desert Fox]

Hitler was so much involved in capturing Stalingrad which cost him the war. He could have easily bypassed the city but his ego did not let him do that.

Time wasn't on his side, if he bypassed Stalingrad leaving behind the large Soviet army unchecked they would have easily cut off the rear of the 6th army.

Hitler was preoccupied with taking out Greece due to the incompetence of the Italians therefore this postponed the invasion of USSR. Once Greece was taken over Hitler needed to secure the oil supply in the Balkans before invading the USSR and once again this also postponed operation Barbarossa further.

Had he invaded Soviet Union in April he would have secured Moscow before the winter.

 

[Sashan]

Time wasn't on his side, if he bypassed Stalingrad leaving behind the large Soviet army unchecked they would have easily cut off the rear of the 6th army.

Hitler was preoccupied with taking out Greece due to the incompetence of the Italians therefore this postponed the invasion of USSR. Once Greece was taken over Hitler needed to secure the oil supply in the Balkans before invading the USSR and once again this also postponed operation Barbarossa further.

Had he invaded Soviet Union in April he would have secured Moscow before the winter.

There was not much force in Stalingrad in the early part of the battle of Stalingrad. Luftwaffe was ruling the skies and would have easily repulsed the red army in Stalingrad with its bombing tactics if the German forces had bypassed the city. The red army threw in battle hardened forces from Siberia in the later part of the battle, which tilted the war in red army's favor.

 

[Audio]

Time wasn't on his side.....

Hitler thankfully made a few blunders that cost him everything.

• First one would be that he started 2 years too early
• diverting Luftwaffe from RAF bases to city bombing
• Russian campaign (and it's mistakes-theoretically it could have been won)
• failure to pursue a widely backed nuclear programme (Germans did do basic research)
• overall meddling in tactical affairs
• ordering the Me-262 to be used as a light bomber when it was most needed to destroy the bomber waves (it was quite successful)...
• Failure to obtain a heavy bomber earlier...like at start of Barbarossa

In my opinion.

 

[Desert Fox]

There was not much force in Stalingrad in the early part of the battle of Stalingrad.

True, however the red army had half the force the Germans had and it was important to secure Stalingrad before the Russians could pour in more troops, however the winter halted any further German initiative to secure the City.

If you look a this map below, you will see that it was vital for the Germans to secure Stalingrad otherwise it left the German advance towards Moscow (as well as other important targets) vulnerable to a attack from the rear:

Luftwaffe was ruling the skies and would have easily repulsed the red army in Stalingrad with its bombing tactics if the German forces had bypassed the city. The red army threw in battle hardened forces from Siberia in the later part of the battle, which tilted the war in red army's favor.

True, unlike Holland, Belgium, France, and Poland, the Blitzkrieg tactic was not as much effective in Russia due to the very large size of Russian country. As the German armies advanced the Red army retreated and burned all crops, farms, poisoned water sources, and burned down any trees to prevent the Germans any resources, on top of that there were no paved roads for Trucks and wheeled vehicles so this made it difficult to resupply. What made it even more difficult for the German armies was the diseases and infections, the thick dust in the summer, the muddy fields in rainy autumn, and frozen temperatures in the winter. Also Luftwaffe was stretched out, there were so many targets and large distances that it became costly to support ground troops every where they encountered resistance from Red army.

 

[Vassnti]

Had he invaded Soviet Union in April he would have secured Moscow before the winter.

Like the Germans secured Sankt-Petersburg and Stalingrad? Perhaps a few weeks difference but still the same outcome.

Thank you though for crediting the brave ANZAC defence of Greece with winning the war

 

[Desert Fox]

Hitler thankfully made a few blunders that cost him everything.

• Russian campaign (and it's mistakes-theoretically it could have been won)

• 
  
  Hitler had to invade USSR, that was the only option he had. USSR always had the intention of invading Germany and Eastern Europe way before the NAZI's came to power, this is proven by the fact that the Red army once tried to invade Poland but failed miserably, and when Hitler was busy securing France Stalin was building up his divisions along the German and Soviet occupied Poland.

 

[Vassnti]

Hitler had to invade USSR, that was the only option he had. nd.

Hitler had been planning the invasion for over 10 years you cant blame the invasion of Russia on the Russians.

Operation Barbarossa:
The Failure of Nazi Ideology at the Eastern Front

by Paul Fleming, Jr.

On June 22,1941, German troops invaded the USSR, thus beginning one of the most violent and devastating wars ever. The German army (Wehrmacht) had begun planning this invasion in July 1940, under the code name Otto, then Fritz, and finally Barbarossa. <1> In planning the invasion, the Wehrmacht basically had the choice of two strategies: the first was to wage a war of attrition, while the second was to win by military annihilation in the tradition of Napoleon. <2> In choosing, the Germans would have been wise to consider the consequences the latter strategy had in the invasion of Russia for Napoleon. However, the Germans and their Nazi leaders felt that defeating the Soviet Union would be fairly easy, and thus chose the strategy of military annihilation. One reason for this is that the Nazis had been stressing such traditional German concepts as Lebensraum (living space) and Drang nach Osten (push to the East), as well as promoting racism and anti-Semitism. <3> All four concepts "justified" a war of annihilation.

The reasons Germany undertook such an invasion are simple. First, in the 1930s the Nazis had made the "struggle" against Bolshevism a "central theme in domestic and foreign policy." <4> Thus a war against Bolshevik Russia was merely the logical outcome of this belief. Secondly, Germany was still at war with Britain, and Hitler believed that if the Soviet Union could be defeated quickly, the British would be more willing to accept peace terms. <5> Moreover, the Germans had had great success and felt that the USSR. would be "one more lightening victory, particularly fought against the inferior races of the East. <6> Author Alan Bullock gives a much more practical explanation. He states that, "Hitler invaded Russia for the simple but sufficient reason that he had always meant to establish the foundations of his thousand-year Reich by the annexation of the territory between the Vistula and the Urals." <7> These reasons justified, at least in the minds of the Nazi and Wehrmacht leadership, tactics which are today still considered barbaric and immoral.

Operation Barbarossa: