Woh hamsafar tha..

[Nilgiri]

+1 for Bharat,for teaching them Urdu/Hindi.

When I order a dish at BD run (always labelled as "Indian" tho) restaurant....I should not be forced to use unnatural number of "o" sounds like a gutka chewer lol. @I S I

 

[Bilal9]

They already do bro. Just recently BD boycotted participating in the SARC summit at India's behest. Bhutan did the same...but I get it...what else can Bhutan do...it is forced to be an Indian stooge...
...but BD isnt...or more like BD has the potential to stand up for itself instead of being pushed around by some regional hegemon(the same way Pak does). Instead BD(due to Hasina) willingly chose to stick it to Pak to please India.

Waqt ayega - zaroor ayega. Biding our time - Sabr is a great virtue...

 

[I S I]

When I order a dish at BD run (always labelled as "Indian" tho) restaurant....I should not be forced to use unnatural number of "o" sounds like a gutka chewer lol. @I S I

 

[ghost250]

+1 for Bharat,for teaching them Urdu/Hindi.

now for u hindi=urdu??lol...yeah ur hindi masters saved ur sorry asses couple of times and thats what u can do for them ...cheer for ur hindi masters...

 

[Sine Nomine]

now for u hindi=urdu??lol...yeah ur hindi masters saved ur sorry asses couple of times and thats what u can do for them ...cheer for ur hindi masters...

How did they save mine,when they created a state for you?
On top of that Urdu and Hindi are same in speaking,mutually intelligible.

 

[Bilal9]

How did they save mine,when they created a state for you?
On top of that Urdu and Hindi are same in speaking,mutually intelligible.

Well, if we are going to be splitting hairs - here's another opinion...don't make the impression that all of
India speaks or likes Hindi, far from it...

OPINION: Hindi was created by British to divide, isn't common man's language
Justice Katju says language of the common man in cities of Hindi belt is Hindustani

By Markandey Katju September 14, 2019 15:14 IST

A pro-Kannada group holding a protest against Hindi Diwas in Bengaluru | Twitter handle of ANI
Today (September 14) is celebrated as Hindi Diwas (Hindi Day).

On this occasion, I wish to express something that may make me very unpopular among many people, but since I believe it is the truth, I will say it. I was never in a popularity contest and have often said things that have made me very unpopular.

The truth is that Hindi is an artificially created language, and is not the common man's language, even in the so-called Hindi-speaking belt of India. The language of the common man in the cities of the Hindi-speaking belt is not Hindi but Hindustani or Khadiboli (in rural areas, there are a large number of different dialects e.g., Avadhi, Brijbhasha, Bhojpuri, Maithili, Maghai, Mewari, Marwari, many of which Hindustani speakers will not even understand).

To explain the difference between Hindi and Hindustani, we may take a simple example. In Hindustani, we say Udhar dekhiye (look there). But for the same in Hindi, we say Udhar avlokan keejiye. Now, the common man will never say avlokan, and will always say dekhiye.

Up to 1947, Urdu was the language of the educated class of all communities in large parts of India, whether they were Hindu, Muslim, Sikh and other communities, while Hindustani was the language of the uneducated common man (in urban areas).

The British rulers artificially created Hindi through their agents like Bhartendu Harishchandra, as part of their divide-and-rule policy, and propagated the claim that Hindi is the language of Hindus, while Urdu is the language of Muslims (though, as mentioned previously, Urdu was the common language of both Hindus and Muslims among the educated class up to 1947).

To create this artificial language, what the Hindi bigots (who were objectively British agents) did was to hatefully replace Persian or Arabic words, which had entered common usage, by Sanskrit words, which were not in common usage (and so were difficult to understand).

I may give an illustration. Once, when I was a justice of the Allahabad High Court, a lawyer who would always argue in Hindi presented a petition before me titled Pratibhu Avedan Patra. Although my mother tongue is Hindustani (since I have lived most of my life in Uttar Pradesh), I could not understand this, so I asked the learned counsel what did the word Pratibhu mean. He replied it meant bail. I said he should have used the word 'bail' or zamanat, which everybody understood, instead of the word Pratibhu, which nobody understood.

Similarly, once while taking a morning walk in the Cantonment area of Allahabad, I saw a board on which it was written Pravaran Kendra. I could not understand the meaning, and could only know it when I looked below where it was written in English 'recruitment centre'. If the words Bharti Daftar had been written, there would have been no difficulty in understanding the meaning. But then Daftar is a word of Persian origin, so how could our 'patriots' accept it?

Thousands of such examples can be given, where, after 1947, simple words, which the common man could easily understand, were sought to be hatefully removed since they were of Persian or Arabic origin. These words were replaced by Sanskrit words, which no one understood. In government notifications, often the language used was incomprehensible, as I found in cases before me in the Allahabad High Court. Similarly, many Hindi books are incomprehensible even to an educated person like me since many klisht (Sanskritised, and therefore difficult) words are used therein.

It is a mistake to think that a language becomes weaker if it adopts words from a foreign language; in fact, it becomes stronger. For instance, English borrowed words from scores of languages, but thereby it has become stronger, not weaker.

ALSO READ

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• OPINION: Bonhomie between a Nawab and diwan—an epitome of Hindu-Muslim bond
• OPINION: Thinking cow slaughter ban will end communal hatred is silly
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Hindustani, which the common man speaks, borrowed from many languages, and thereby became stronger. Once, I paid a certain amount to a rickshaw puller as the fare, and he said wajib hai (it is appropriate). Here, an illiterate man used a pure Persian word, which had come into his vocabulary. Why remove it?

These Hindi bigots did great damage to the two great all-India cultural languages: Sanskrit and Urdu. Sanskrit, which was really a great language of free thinkers, (see my online article Sanskrit as a language of science) was sought to be turned into an oppressor. And as for Urdu (see my online article What is Urdu?), near 'genocide' was committed on this great language, which has given some of the finest poetry in the world.

Justice Markandey Katju retired from the Supreme Court in 2011.

 

[Shorisrip]

How did they save mine,when they created a state for you?
On top of that Urdu and Hindi are same in speaking,mutually intelligible.

I wouldn't be so sure. Your "national language" is Urdu, an import from the Hindi Belt. Of course, this isn't something that is bad. I appreciate the pride of groups like Pashtuns and Sindhis, but its a shame that modern Punjabis (especially Lahoris) cannot utter a word of Punjabi. Punjabi parents thinks Punjabi is a "paindu/gavar" tongue, and instead are teaching Urdu to their kids (basically same thing that happened to West Punjabi origin Khatri partition refugees in Delhi). In Bangladesh, we're proud of our language (as demonstrated in 1952), and our native tongue means a lot to us.

 

[Cookie Monster]

I wouldn't be so sure. Your "national language" is Urdu, an import from the Hindi Belt. Of course, this isn't something that is bad. I appreciate the pride of groups like Pashtuns and Sindhis, but its a shame that modern Punjabis (especially Lahoris) cannot utter a word of Punjabi. Punjabi parents thinks Punjabi is a "paindu/gavar" tongue, and instead are teaching Urdu to their kids (basically same thing that happened to West Punjabi origin Khatri partition refugees in Delhi). In Bangladesh, we're proud of our language (as demonstrated in 1952), and our native tongue means a lot to us.

OMG not this useless debate again. Learning another language DOES NOT mean that u r embarrassed of ur own language. A language is a tool...used for communication. Using ur reasoning should I assume that bcuz u r speaking English here...therefore u must think of "Bengali" as a "paindu" tongue?

The real reason u learned English and are speaking it here is bcuz English is one of the most widely spoken languages in the world...and the fact that knowledge is just knowledge...the more u know the better. Just like that...if a Punjabi learns and speaks Urdu it doesn't mean he/she is embarrassed of speaking Punjabi. I am from Punjab myself...and I know both Punjabi and Urdu. Just like that there are Pathans who can speak Pashto and Urdu, and so on and so forth in every province of Pakistan. Urdu is taught as an ADDITIONAL language in schools(bcuz it is the national language)...no one is forced to not speak or shun their mother tongue. It's perfectly fine to take pride in ur mother tongue as ur identity...in addition u learn the national language (just like u learned English) as a tool...a means of communication with the rest of ur countrymen. If Urdu was to be removed and each province focused on only the regional languages...it would be hard to create a national uniformity of sorts. How would a teacher who is Sindhi be able to teach Baloch students? How would a Punjabi tourist be able to communicate with anyone in Gilgit? How would a Pathan leader(Imran Khan) address the nation that includes non Pathans(like Baloch, Sindhi, Punjabi, Kashmiris, etc.)?

This is why Urdu was also introduced in BD(formerly East Pak). There was no compulsion for Bengali ppl not to speak Bengali. Urdu was supposed to be an additional language for the purpose of creating a commonality in language for the Pakistani ppl(which included Bengalis). U and other Bengalis here point out how u guys resisted and are proud of ur own language(Bengali)...well then using that same reasoning...u shouldn't be speaking English. By doing so u r being a traitor to ur mother tongue...just like how learning/speaking Urdu(in addition to Bengali) was a big no no, why are u guys okay with English?
Could it be that English is considered more prestigious by u bcuz it is the language of goras(White Europeans) whereas poor Urdu is just another regional "paindu" language?

It reminds me of the recent news about how some Indians were making a huge issue going after Justin Trudeau for saying "Diwali Mubarak"...apparently using the word "Mubarak" with its Arabic origins was a big no no. Then a bit later those same hateful creatures were calling their soldiers "shaheed" instead of "killed" and all of a sudden it didnt matter that "shaheed" was also an Arabic origin word.

The point is that one should look at the FUNCTION a language serves instead of hating it just bcuz it originated elsewhere. U and others like u hate a language bcuz it is associated with the ppl u hate...that is pathetic.

@Nilgiri the whole idiotic debate about language has started again

 

[Shorisrip]

OMG not this useless debate again. Learning another language DOES NOT mean that u r embarrassed of ur own language. A language is a tool...used for communication. Using ur reasoning should I assume that bcuz u r speaking English here...therefore u must think of "Bengali" as a "paindu" tongue?

The real reason u learned English and are speaking it here is bcuz English is one of the most widely spoken languages in the world...and the fact that knowledge is just knowledge...the more u know the better. Just like that...if a Punjabi learns and speaks Urdu it doesn't mean he/she is embarrassed of speaking Punjabi. I am from Punjab myself...and I know both Punjabi and Urdu. Just like that there are Pathans who can speak Pashto and Urdu, and so on and so forth in every province of Pakistan. Urdu is taught as an ADDITIONAL language in schools(bcuz it is the national language)...no one is forced to not speak or shun their mother tongue. It's perfectly fine to take pride in ur mother tongue as ur identity...in addition u learn the national language (just like u learned English) as a tool...a means of communication with the rest of ur countrymen. If Urdu was to be removed and each province focused on only the regional languages...it would be hard to create a national uniformity of sorts. How would a teacher who is Sindhi be able to teach Baloch students? How would a Punjabi tourist be able to communicate with anyone in Gilgit? How would a Pathan leader(Imran Khan) address the nation that includes non Pathans(like Baloch, Sindhi, Punjabi, Kashmiris, etc.)?

This is why Urdu was also introduced in BD(formerly East Pak). There was no compulsion for Bengali ppl not to speak Bengali. Urdu was supposed to be an additional language for the purpose of creating a commonality in language for the Pakistani ppl(which included Bengalis). U and other Bengalis here point out how u guys resisted and are proud of ur own language(Bengali)...well then using that same reasoning...u shouldn't be speaking English. By doing so u r being a traitor to ur mother tongue...just like how learning/speaking Urdu(in addition to Bengali) was a big no no, why are u guys okay with English?
Could it be that English is considered more prestigious by u bcuz it is the language of goras whereas poor Urdu is just another regional language...which as u put it a "paindu" langauge?

@Nilgiri the whole idiotic debate about language has started again

I never said that Urdu being the national language is bad, but you can't criticize Bangladesh for adopting "indian mannerisms" at the same time (which never happened). Also, the 1952 agitation was based on the sole imposition of Urdu, which was also used for government board exams which was discriminatory towards Bengalis (comprising the majority of Pakistan)who did not speak Urdu or have the ability to read/write the script.

I'm not against a lingua franca, but its not my opinion that loads of urban Punjabis never teach their kids Punjabi (that's why you have the 'Punjabi bachao' movement ). I've never claimed Pashtuns, Sindhis or Baloch don't want to speak their own languages. In Central Punjab, in Lahore or Faisalabad, the situation for Punjabi is grim (its much better in the South and Potohar ofc which I won't deny). Punjabi will survive in the pinds, but will die out in the cities and towns.

Edit: Also I'm not here to argue with you. I will most likely not read your comment.

 

[Cookie Monster]

I never said that Urdu being the national language is bad, but you can't criticize Bangladesh for adopting "indian mannerisms" at the same time (which never happened). Also, the 1952 agitation was based on the sole imposition of Urdu, which was also used for government board exams which was discriminatory towards Bengalis (comprising the majority of Pakistan)who did not speak Urdu or have the ability to read/write the script.

I'm not against a lingua franca, but its not my opinion that loads of urban Punjabis never teach their kids Punjabi (that's why you have the 'Punjabi bachao' movement ). I've never claimed Pashtuns, Sindhis or Baloch don't want to speak their own languages. In Central Punjab, in Lahore or Faisalabad, the situation for Punjabi is grim (its much better in the South and Potohar ofc which I won't deny). Punjabi will survive in the pinds, but will die out in the cities and towns.

When Urdu was "imposed" on Bengalis it was also "imposed" on Punjabis, Pathans, Sindhis, Balochis, Kashmiris, and Muhajirs alike. Urdu wasn't the mother tongue of a large portion of west Pakistanis(except for those who migrated from India). Urdu itself was the language originally spoken widely in India's UP, Hyderabad, and Dehli among other areas. So the notion that it was the east Pakistanis who had to go through this whole "unfair ordeal" is just BS...a majority of West Pakistanis had to go through the same thing...and they didn't complain bcuz a common language was needed for nation building.

As for Punjabi dying out in big cities...it has less to do with ppl looking down on Punjabi and more to do with clustering of educated(high school or more) population together. If u have gone through high school or further in Pak...the chances are u speak Urdu. If that is the common language that is spoken...it becomes the go to choice for ppl. The same holds true of ALL the major cities in Pak...not just Lahore. I've been to Karachi(Sindh) and Peshawar(KPK) and I spoke Urdu without any difficulty...didn't run into a single person who didn't understand me. The same thing can be observed here in US...ppl from all sorts of places come here and though they may speak Russian, Bulgarian, Chinese, Tagalog, etc...when it comes to daily life communication they all speak English. Not bcuz they are being forced by anyone or they don't take pride in their own language...but bcuz it's easier and practical to have uniformity in language with those around u.

 

[Nilgiri]

@Nilgiri the whole idiotic debate about language has started again

\

It's always the case, lurking behind ready to stronk stronk it up.

Its just better to joke about it now....but I guess many want to have the "last word" (ironically) on this stuff.

 

[Cookie Monster]

\

It's always the case, lurking behind ready to stronk stronk it up.

Its just better to joke about it now....but I guess many want to have the "last word" (ironically) on this stuff.

It just rubs me the wrong way when ppl attribute "human" like qualities with something that's pure invention(a tool) just so they can hate it. It's like hating Physics or Computer Science...it's complete nonsense and pure madness. A language is no different...it serves a function...which is to facilitate communication and understanding.

Cherry on top is that they reveal rejecting to learn Urdu while speaking in English. It's like an anti vaccer going to a doctor for treatment(implicitly accepting him as the expert in medical field) and reject those same experts when it comes to vaccination...just mind boggling hypocrisy.

 

[Sine Nomine]

I wouldn't be so sure. Your "national language" is Urdu, an import from the Hindi Belt. Of course, this isn't something that is bad. I appreciate the pride of groups like Pashtuns and Sindhis, but its a shame that modern Punjabis (especially Lahoris) cannot utter a word of Punjabi. Punjabi parents thinks Punjabi is a "paindu/gavar" tongue, and instead are teaching Urdu to their kids (basically same thing that happened to West Punjabi origin Khatri partition refugees in Delhi). In Bangladesh, we're proud of our language (as demonstrated in 1952), and our native tongue means a lot to us.

You should update knowledge of Geography,Khariboli(Urdu/Hindi) origined around and in Delhi,which was part of Punjab.It isn't imported just has travelled.
I don't know who told you this garbage.Punjabi is still widely spoken language in Pakistan.
You are proud of your lang,where it has got you,i hope you reach on mars soon by just having that pride.

\

It's always the case, lurking behind ready to stronk stronk it up.

Its just better to joke about it now....but I guess many want to have the "last word" (ironically) on this stuff.

Suck and geography,forget always that Khariboli originated in Delhi which was part of Punjab, it was capital of Hindustan pretty much even before origin of them and langauge cycle has been going since ages,they come and die.

Well, if we are going to be splitting hairs - here's another opinion...don't make the impression that all of
India speaks or likes Hindi, far from it...

OPINION: Hindi was created by British to divide, isn't common man's language
Justice Katju says language of the common man in cities of Hindi belt is Hindustani

By Markandey Katju September 14, 2019 15:14 IST

A pro-Kannada group holding a protest against Hindi Diwas in Bengaluru | Twitter handle of ANI
Today (September 14) is celebrated as Hindi Diwas (Hindi Day).

On this occasion, I wish to express something that may make me very unpopular among many people, but since I believe it is the truth, I will say it. I was never in a popularity contest and have often said things that have made me very unpopular.

The truth is that Hindi is an artificially created language, and is not the common man's language, even in the so-called Hindi-speaking belt of India. The language of the common man in the cities of the Hindi-speaking belt is not Hindi but Hindustani or Khadiboli (in rural areas, there are a large number of different dialects e.g., Avadhi, Brijbhasha, Bhojpuri, Maithili, Maghai, Mewari, Marwari, many of which Hindustani speakers will not even understand).

To explain the difference between Hindi and Hindustani, we may take a simple example. In Hindustani, we say Udhar dekhiye (look there). But for the same in Hindi, we say Udhar avlokan keejiye. Now, the common man will never say avlokan, and will always say dekhiye.

Up to 1947, Urdu was the language of the educated class of all communities in large parts of India, whether they were Hindu, Muslim, Sikh and other communities, while Hindustani was the language of the uneducated common man (in urban areas).

The British rulers artificially created Hindi through their agents like Bhartendu Harishchandra, as part of their divide-and-rule policy, and propagated the claim that Hindi is the language of Hindus, while Urdu is the language of Muslims (though, as mentioned previously, Urdu was the common language of both Hindus and Muslims among the educated class up to 1947).

To create this artificial language, what the Hindi bigots (who were objectively British agents) did was to hatefully replace Persian or Arabic words, which had entered common usage, by Sanskrit words, which were not in common usage (and so were difficult to understand).

I may give an illustration. Once, when I was a justice of the Allahabad High Court, a lawyer who would always argue in Hindi presented a petition before me titled Pratibhu Avedan Patra. Although my mother tongue is Hindustani (since I have lived most of my life in Uttar Pradesh), I could not understand this, so I asked the learned counsel what did the word Pratibhu mean. He replied it meant bail. I said he should have used the word 'bail' or zamanat, which everybody understood, instead of the word Pratibhu, which nobody understood.

Similarly, once while taking a morning walk in the Cantonment area of Allahabad, I saw a board on which it was written Pravaran Kendra. I could not understand the meaning, and could only know it when I looked below where it was written in English 'recruitment centre'. If the words Bharti Daftar had been written, there would have been no difficulty in understanding the meaning. But then Daftar is a word of Persian origin, so how could our 'patriots' accept it?

Thousands of such examples can be given, where, after 1947, simple words, which the common man could easily understand, were sought to be hatefully removed since they were of Persian or Arabic origin. These words were replaced by Sanskrit words, which no one understood. In government notifications, often the language used was incomprehensible, as I found in cases before me in the Allahabad High Court. Similarly, many Hindi books are incomprehensible even to an educated person like me since many klisht (Sanskritised, and therefore difficult) words are used therein.

It is a mistake to think that a language becomes weaker if it adopts words from a foreign language; in fact, it becomes stronger. For instance, English borrowed words from scores of languages, but thereby it has become stronger, not weaker.

ALSO READ

• Why I extended 1-month visas of Pakistanis to 5 years: Justice Katju
• OPINION: Bonhomie between a Nawab and diwan—an epitome of Hindu-Muslim bond
• OPINION: Thinking cow slaughter ban will end communal hatred is silly
• OPINION: Modi must guard against China's kiss of death while meeting Xi

Hindustani, which the common man speaks, borrowed from many languages, and thereby became stronger. Once, I paid a certain amount to a rickshaw puller as the fare, and he said wajib hai (it is appropriate). Here, an illiterate man used a pure Persian word, which had come into his vocabulary. Why remove it?

These Hindi bigots did great damage to the two great all-India cultural languages: Sanskrit and Urdu. Sanskrit, which was really a great language of free thinkers, (see my online article Sanskrit as a language of science) was sought to be turned into an oppressor. And as for Urdu (see my online article What is Urdu?), near 'genocide' was committed on this great language, which has given some of the finest poetry in the world.

Justice Markandey Katju retired from the Supreme Court in 2011.

Bilal Khariboli(Urdu/Hindi)came way before Brits came Amir Khusrow did poetry in Urdu his era was from 1253 to 1325.Brits did promoted it but saying that they just made a languge for sake of dividing Hindustan is plain lie.

 

[Slav Defence]

Some posters are trying to lebel me as pro xyz nation and are trying to drain my efforts to maintain peace between Bangladeshi and Pakistani people. I have no words to define them and I don't care as well. I have personally neither roots from Bengal nor anywhere even close. However, by studying history and politics has made me realize how much illiterate attitude some people from Pakistan and Bengal has and I am unhappy to admit that some people shall remain illiterate and never learn from past. I leave their matters upon Allah subhanawatala and hope that one day these people will learn.
On the other hand, I really appreciate both Pakistani and Bangladeshi peers of ours to contribute positively. I hope that like us, they are also looking forward towards better relationship in future.
Regards