With an eerie calm, Kashmir watches the “Kashmirisation” of India

[xeuss]

NRC is specifically targeting Muslims from BD and Pakistan .both these countries Re formed as they wanted separate country as they said they cannot live with hindus and why would we give citizenship to people who wanted to separate and got their land and again return to live in India

You are either extremely naive or purposefully ignoring the sinister designs of the party that you voted into power.

 

[hussain0216]

You are either extremely naive or purposefully ignoring the sinister designs of the party that you voted into power.

Of course he is

CAA is to provide illegal Hindus with protection from the effects of NRC where state apparatus can be used to target Muslims

They know this, you know this, we all know this

 

[PaulSimon]

You are either extremely naive or purposefully ignoring the sinister designs of the party that you voted into power.

What is your position or demand or wish in this regard?

 

[xeuss]

What is your position or demand or wish in this regard?

If they (meaning the BJP) truly want to give citizenship to a certain section of people, they could have done it with executive fiat. Nothing stops them from doing that. Furthermore, those Hindus living legally in India (from Pak/BD) on Long Term Visas, were always eligible for citizenship, if the government chose to rewrite the "rules" of the Passport Act.

But that was not what they truly wanted, they wanted to make the Muslims as stateless citizens in their own country and that is why the law/bill is written the way it is. You need to read the bill opposite of the way it is written to get a clearer picture. Couched in the language of refuge and seemingly directed at foreigners, the CAB’s main purpose is the de-legitimization of Muslim citizenship.

Muslims, that do not possess documents that establish their citizenship, would be rendered stateless. Now what about the Hindus who do not possess documents that establish their citizenship? There are many that are saying that they will not get citizenship either, unless they can prove that they were from Pal/Afg/BD. That is what you get when you read the law at face value.

However, the person who drafted this, did so rather cleverly. This CAB references the Passport Act and Foreigners Act OR "any rule or order made thereunder" (I have emphasized it in red below)

"Provided that any person belonging to Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Parsi or Christian community from Afghanistan, Bangladesh or Pakistan, who entered into India on or before the 31st day of December, 2014 and who has been exempted by the Central Government by or under clause (c) of sub-section (2) of section 3 of the Passport (Entry into India) Act, 1920 or from the application of the provisions of the Foreigners Act, 1946 or any rule or order made thereunder, shall not be treated as illegal migrant for the purposes of this Act;"

Now what the legal minds will argue over is, what does the "or" actually mean. Is it part of this law or the other laws that are referenced. What I suspect will happen is that sometime later, these "rules" and "orders" will be revised (and they can do this merely with a babu's pen, no parliament needed) to drop the references to Pak/Afg/BD, leaving the reading to be simply that all Hindus etc will be eligible for citizenship, except Muslims. That is why the laws do not reference persecution etc.

But coming back to what I want? I just want Muslims to receive equal rights as guaranteed by the constitution and the end to their discrimination/oppression by the state machinery. Can you do that? If not that, then at least stop poisoning the minds of other Indians against the Muslims to dehumanize them.

 

[PaulSimon]

If they (meaning the BJP) truly want to give citizenship to a certain section of people, they could have done it with executive fiat. Nothing stops them from doing that. Furthermore, those Hindus living legally in India (from Pak/BD) on Long Term Visas, were always eligible for citizenship, if the government chose to rewrite the "rules" of the Passport Act.

So you think an executive order would have been better than a law fully reviewed and passed by both houses of Parliament?

But that was not what they truly wanted, they wanted to make the Muslims as stateless citizens in their own country and that is why the law/bill is written the way it is. You need to read the bill opposite of the way it is written to get a clearer picture. Couched in the language of refuge and seemingly directed at foreigners, the CAB’s main purpose is the de-legitimization of Muslim citizenship.

As I read it CAA law passed only provides fast track citizenship to illegal non-muslims people from these three countries. Illegal Muslims would still have to go through current lengthier process. This law does not impact the citizens of India including Muslims at all.

Muslims, that do not possess documents that establish their citizenship, would be rendered stateless. Now what about the Hindus who do not possess documents that establish their citizenship? There are many that are saying that they will not get citizenship either, unless they can prove that they were from Pal/Afg/BD. That is what you get when you read the law at face value.

Not only Muslims. Many people do have documents in India.

However, the person who drafted this, did so rather cleverly. This CAB references the Passport Act and Foreigners Act OR "any rule or order made thereunder" (I have emphasized it in red below)

"Provided that any person belonging to Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Parsi or Christian community from Afghanistan, Bangladesh or Pakistan, who entered into India on or before the 31st day of December, 2014 and who has been exempted by the Central Government by or under clause (c) of sub-section (2) of section 3 of the Passport (Entry into India) Act, 1920 or from the application of the provisions of the Foreigners Act, 1946 or any rule or order made thereunder, shall not be treated as illegal migrant for the purposes of this Act;"

The fact is even Congress is not demanding that all illegal Muslims from these three countries be included in CAA. The concern is will India be able to handle another 50+ Muslim crores to be part of India? Certainly not.

Now what the legal minds will argue over is, what does the "or" actually mean. Is it part of this law or the other laws that are referenced. What I suspect will happen is that sometime later, these "rules" and "orders" will be revised (and they can do this merely with a babu's pen, no parliament needed) to drop the references to Pak/Afg/BD, leaving the reading to be simply that all Hindus etc will be eligible for citizenship, except Muslims. That is why the laws do not reference persecution etc.

So your concern is that illegal Hindus from SriLanka would be able to gain India citizenship under CAA in future?

But coming back to what I want? I just want Muslims to receive equal rights as guaranteed by the constitution and the end to their discrimination/oppression by the state machinery. Can you do that? If not that, then at least stop poisoning the minds of other Indians against the Muslims to dehumanize them.

So what is your concern or demand?

Do you want all illegal Muslims from these three countries be included in CAA?

or

Are you worried that this CAA law may change in future which may allow non-Muslims of other countries also gain Indian citizenship. For example, illegal Hindus from SriLanka?

 

[xeuss]

So you think an executive order would have been better than a law fully reviewed and passed by both houses of Parliament?



As I read it CAA law passed only provides fast track citizenship to illegal non-muslims people from these three countries. Illegal Muslims would still have to go through current lengthier process. This law does not impact the citizens of India including Muslims at all.



Not only Muslims. Many people do have documents in India.



The fact is even Congress is not demanding that all illegal Muslims from these three countries be included in CAA. The concern is will India be able to handle another 50+ Muslim crores to be part of India? Certainly not.



So your concern is that illegal Hindus from SriLanka would be able to gain India citizenship under CAA in future?



So what is your concern or demand?

Do you want all illegal Muslims from these three countries be included in CAA?

or

Are you worried that this CAA law may change in future which may allow non-Muslims of other countries also gain Indian citizenship. For example, illegal Hindus from SriLanka?

I have already explained myself. I feel no need to repeat myself to satisfy your unending questions.

 

[PaulSimon]

I have already explained myself. I feel no need to repeat myself to satisfy your unending questions.

But you are not being specific hence the questions. If you do not want to answer or be specific that is fine by me. I will just assume that your grievances are not a genuine.

I just want Muslims to receive equal rights as guaranteed by the constitution

What are you not receiving as guaranteed by the constitution that others are receiving?

the end to their discrimination/oppression by the state machinery.

What discrimination/oppression by the state machinery are Muslims facing that others are not?

 

[xeuss]

But you are not being specific hence the questions. If you do not want to answer or be specific that is fine by me. I will just assume that your grievances are not a genuine.

Thanks. I don't expect anything else from a SanghiNazi

 

[PaulSimon]

Thanks. Don't expect anything else from a SanghiNazi

Sorry! I mistook you to be an Indian Muslim.

 

[El Sidd]

Sorry! I mistook you to be an Indian Muslim.

Did the drone hovering above gave it away or you mistook the dot on the head as a sniper crosshair?

 

[PaulSimon]

Did the drone hovering above gave it away or you mistook the dot on the head as a sniper crosshair?

Well he/she is claiming to be a Sanghi why should I assume otherwise.

don't expect anything else from a SanghiNazi

 

[El Sidd]

Well he/she is claiming to be a Sanghi why should I assume otherwise.

Ask for his Adhaar card politely

 

[PaulSimon]

Ask for his Adhaar card politely

Not interested.

 

[El Sidd]

Not interested.

Maybe he is an illegal bangladeshi masquerading as Indian?

 

[PaulSimon]

Maybe he is an illegal bangladeshi masquerading as Indian?

Well his flag indicates that he/she is in US not in India.