With 43 athletes on blacklist, India World No.2 in doping

[Peshwa]

I somewhat disagree. Many developed countries, with high GDP per capita and lotsa investment, still failed to do well in the Olympics. Inherent ability has a role.

How about Yoga then? Surely India would do well.

If it were inherent, then the intense training of Chinese athletes starting from ages as low as 10 years wouldnt be required no? All Chinese folks should naturally be able to be gymnysts....But they are not...

All Im saying is that "training" and "resources" are the key equation between an athlete and a world class athlete...
There is no dearth of athletic talent in India...there is a lack of world level talent..

Also...what the hell are you on about Yoga? Im very confused as to what you're getting at..

 

[shuttler]

Indian Premier League...

also cricket

Basically my point being that Billions have been invested in training facilities and players giving them a unique exposure, hence you see India in nearly all top categories of cricket...
Other than Cricket, very little has been done Privately (lets not even count government sponsored programs since most of them are scams aimed at filling the coffers of the babus)..for other sports.

no! how about this indian billionaire:


Mittal champions gearing up for 2012 London Games - The Hindu

and the Tata Group

http://www.tata.com/ourcommitment/articles/inside.aspx?artid=RRYDuCSknAU=

We need to give sports like Hockey, Football, Boxing and Basketball a boost in order even appear on the radar of international levels...

and India has not in most of those sports? How do you know how much is being invested in those sports in India vs. Pak? Can you share some info?

at least I havent seen anything in the media in respect of Pakistani sports like Mittal and Tata are doing to sports in indian in general as mentioned in the above quotes from your media and other source.

Have you seen anything in the contrary?

 

[Fattyacids]

If it were inherent, then the intense training of Chinese athletes starting from ages as low as 10 years wouldnt be required no? All Chinese folks should naturally be able to be gymnysts....But they are not...

All Im saying is that "training" and "resources" are the key equation between an athlete and a world class athlete...
There is no dearth of athletic talent in India...there is a lack of world level talent..

Also...what the hell are you on about Yoga? Im very confused as to what you're getting at..

In many sports, age is critical. Take gymnastic for instance, once you past 10 year old, you can never be a good gymnast coz your bone would have been too stiff. Same goes for diving.

I agree training and resources do play a part, but inherent ability matters too. This is why I said if meditation is admitted as a sports, India would do well. Yoga and Bollywood style dance too, coz you have the inherent ability in these exercises.

 

[darkhero]

US should be the real No. 1. country in doping. Apparently they have much better drugs. Also some western counties, look at those UK cyclists.

Many scandals from them are because of internal fighting not tests.

 

[Peshwa]

also cricket

And I did concur with you that except for cricket, no other sport has received such structured support...
and where we have invested, we have done well...sadly only true for cricket as yet..

no! how about this indian billionaire:


Mittal champions gearing up for 2012 London Games - The Hindu

And if you notice, some of the athletes that have been advantaged from this trust have made a mark in the olympics.
Names like Abhinav Bindra, Jitender Kumar, Akhil Kumar etc are names on the rise and came close to winning medals in the London Olympics.
So my argument stands that with the proper and sustained support, our share of medals will increase...
Mind you...rome wasnt built in a day...and this trust has been in works only since 2005...and only 9MM has so far been invested in a total of 6 sports categories...not sure if this is enough, but my bet is not
and if you notice performance from '99 games to '12 games has improved...

We need more such programs and incentives to have people look to sports as an alternative...The attitude in India is always shaped by economics and only when sports becomes a career option will indians start becoming more focussed towards it..

Let me ask you something....What kind of compensation does the Chinese govt. give to medal winners vs. olympic participants?

at least I havent seen anything in the media in respect of Pakistanis sports like Mittal's been doing to sports in indian in general
as mentioned in the above quote from your media.

Have you seen anything in the contrary?

Honestly, except for Squash, Im not too familiar with funding for Pakistani sports..

Do note that Squash is an elite game in Pakistan and is usually played by those better off that the average...clearly these people are able to afford better training facilities and trainers itself which is evident and supporting of the point Im making given the success Pak has had in Squash internationally...

 

[China_Rising]

Indian Premier League...

Don't you think that saying "Indians have done well" in a league that is only Indian is a bit misleading??

 

[Peshwa]

In many sports, age is critical. Take gymnastic for instance, once you past 10 year old, you can never be a good gymnast coz your bone would have been too stiff. Same goes for diving.

This very well maybe the case, but if one didnt have the resources and trainers to fish out potential talent and "recruit" the children as well as parents into allowing their children to be trained, you wouldnt have the success that China has had in the olympics...so the individual kid may have been a natural athlete but would have been a waste had China not invested in finding and training this talent...

And entire race of people cannot be inclined to athleticism....individuals can is my stance..

I agree training and resources do play a part, but inherent ability matters too. This is why I said if meditation is admitted as a sports, India would do well. Yoga and Bollywood style dance too, coz you have the inherent ability in these exercises.

We are also excellent at wrestling and boxing....I can personally attest to those two sports..In fact the wrestling is one of the traditioned Indian sports
In the case of the latter, we suffer from the lack of promoters or sponsors to get the sport beyond the nascent stages.
Half of our young puglists end up taking odd jobs instead of pursuing a career since there is no money in boxing in India..

Don't you think that saying "Indians have done well" in a league that is only Indian is a bit misleading??

You got it wrong...

IPL has given the right training and facilities to budding Indian cricketers turning them into world class talent through exposure...
The direct impact has been the success of the Indian national team in all top categories of the sport thanks to being able to identify and recruit these players to the national team from clubs...

In the past, the indian cricket team was highly politicized with the Indian team basically branching the "Mumbai team" since except for a few token players, most other players were recruited from Mumbai or had political connections....
Thanks to IPL, you see cricketers from even the poorest of regions playing on the national stage.

 

[Fattyacids]

This very well maybe the case, but if one didnt have the resources and trainers to fish out potential talent and "recruit" the children as well as parents into allowing their children to be trained, you wouldnt have the success that China has had in the olympics...so the individual kid may have been a natural athlete but would have been a waste had China not invested in finding and training this talent...

Well, when China was still poor in the 80's with little resources and trainers, we still won many gold medals in the Olympics and other international events.

In the case of the latter, we suffer from the lack of promoters or sponsors to get the sport beyond the nascent stages.
Half of our young puglists end up taking odd jobs instead of pursuing a career since there is no money in boxing in India..

How difficult is it to promote yoga, bollywood dance, and meditation as sports? Unlike cricket, you don't need a huge stadium. And it certainly doesn't require much funding coz you don't need special gear or equipment to do these exercises.

 

[Peshwa]

Well, when China was still poor in the 80's with little resources and trainers, we still won many gold medals in the Olympics and other international events.

And I truly applaud those achievements, for developing nations, China is definitely the role models as far as cricket is concerned...
But mind you...again, I give the onus of this achievement to the state (take USSR as a relatable example) as they invested in the talent...in your neck of the woods, olympic achievement are a matter of national pride starting with the govt taking a vested interest in so...
In India...Govt. and beaureacracy are the biggest hindrances to sporting talent...

If we are still arguing about the inherent ability part, take the US as an example..which has been a top sporting nation(in olympics) for a while...
The US has no homogenous population...It has Italians, Irish, Chinese, african americans and Germans that form part of its olympic teams with tremendous success...But individually Italy, Ireland and African nations do not do as well mainly because the US invests heads and tails above any of these countries in sports...

i think to a certain extent we are on the same line of thinking with minor deviations...

How difficult is it to promote yoga, bollywood dance and meditation as sports? Unlike cricket, you don't need a huge stadium. And it certainly doesn't require much funding coz you don't need special gear or equipment to do these exercises.

I mean if you can tell me how one can make Yoga or Meditation as a competitive sport, I would be more than happy to discuss further..
But Im drawing a blank as to how one would judge a Yoga competition or decide who won in meditation...personally I think both those things are more personal "exercise" or mental improvement techniques...not sports..just as I dont consider golf or snooker a sport

 

[Peshwa]

Well, when China was still poor in the 80's with little resources and trainers, we still won many gold medals in the Olympics and other international events.

And I truly applaud those achievements, for developing nations, China is definitely the role models as far as sports is concerned...
But mind you...again, I give the onus of this achievement to the state (take USSR as a relatable example) as they invested in the talent...in your neck of the woods, olympic achievement are a matter of national pride starting with the govt taking a vested interest in so...
In India...Govt. and beaureacracy are the biggest hindrances to sporting talent...

If we are still arguing about the inherent ability part, take the US as an example..which has been a top sporting nation(in olympics) for a while...
The US has no homogenous population...It has Italians, Irish, Chinese, african americans and Germans that form part of its olympic teams with tremendous success...But individually Italy, Ireland and African nations do not do as well mainly because the US invests heads and tails above any of these countries in sports...

i think to a certain extent we are on the same line of thinking with minor deviations...

How difficult is it to promote yoga, bollywood dance and meditation as sports? Unlike cricket, you don't need a huge stadium. And it certainly doesn't require much funding coz you don't need special gear or equipment to do these exercises.

I mean if you can tell me how one can make Yoga or Meditation as a competitive sport, I would be more than happy to discuss further..
But Im drawing a blank as to how one would judge a Yoga competition or decide who won in meditation...personally I think both those things are more personal "exercise" or mental improvement techniques...not sports..just as I dont consider golf or snooker a sport

 

[Fattyacids]

But mind you...again, I give the onus of this achievement to the state (take USSR as a relatable example) as they invested in the talent...in your neck of the woods, olympic achievement are a matter of national pride starting with the govt taking a vested interest in so...

Vietnam is a communist state, so is Lao, why are they nowhere to be seen on the medal table?

If we are still arguing about the inherent ability part, take the US as an example..which has been a top sporting nation(in olympics) for a while...
The US has no homogenous population...It has Italians, Irish, Chinese, african americans and Germans that form part of its olympic teams with tremendous success...But individually Italy, Ireland and African nations do not do as well mainly because the US invests heads and tails above any of these countries in sports...

Is it not a fact that the blacks dominate the track and field, whether they compete as Americans, Jamacians or Afrcians? Are you going to argue it is not down to their inherent ability?

I mean if you can tell me how one can make Yoga or Meditation as a competitive sport, I would be more than happy to discuss further..
But Im drawing a blank as to how one would judge a Yoga competition or decide who won in meditation...personally I think both those things are more personal "exercise" or mental improvement techniques...not sports..just as I dont consider golf or snooker a sport

These are your inherent abilities, the onus is on indians to come up with a way to make it a competitive sports.

 

[Peshwa]

Vietnam is a communist state, so is Lao, why are they nowhere to be seen on the medal table?

Its because Vietnam and Lao did not invest in Sporting talent...China did..maybe those countries had other priorities...
But communism helps because it allows funds to be specifically targeted to areas on national interest....I did mention that "national pride" had a huge part to play into the amount of focus each country places on olympics

Is it not a fact that the blacks dominate the track and field, whether they compete as Americans, Jamacians or Afrcians? Are you going to argue it is not down to their inherent ability?

Not all blacks...some blacks...those that have received the proper training etc...

i say this again...athleticism is an individual quality...NOT a national or racial quality..

Since you want to go there...How many track golds have African nations won? Shouldnt they be dominating the track and field table given your argument?
But its only those Blacks that belong to countries with established Track and Field programs that win the medals tally...

These are your inherent abilities, the onus is on indians to come up with a way to make it a competitive sports.

What are you on about?? Seriously...Did ANY Indian here suggest Yoga and meditation as a sport?
SO why the hell would that even be our responsibility? We dont consider them sports is what you should get from this...
Im not sure I want to argue on this particular line of your reasoning anymore...I find it quite futile to talk about this....