Will Pakistan be able to make a Fighter

[Kashif]

Originally posted by ISI2003@Nov 23 2005, 09:23 PM
actually its is only about 5 years behind russia (currently it has a radar simialr to the one on the su-27's ready, that is why the J-11B is all chinese, the radar is chinese becuase it is better than the russian version)

as it is developing a radar with russia and will then be on par with russia

soon the eu kill could be lifted and china could get alot of advanced electronics and radars from france (at the "right" price the french will sell)

in 5 years they could be on par with european radrs like those for the eurofighter and rafale

by 2012 the chinese want to fly their JXX, so it needs an advanced radar (not by 2012 imeedately but by 2015 to integrate as the lane gets to that stage)

-----------
the chinese are behnd but are catching up fast

[post=3537]Quoted post[/post]​

Are there any chances for joint ventures i dont think China is happy from the thunders they are making their J-10 more and more advance.I cantunderstand that PAF have F-7s in their inventory this plane is capable of nearnly 2 Mach speed and has a quite reasonable range.Then i wanna know from where those engines came from which were fitter in F-7 cant China or Pakistan make copies of those then there will be no need for asking engines from russia and this would take Pakistan to indigniousity and can make a path to a Made in Pakistan Fighter-Bomber AC

 

[Sharjeel]

Originally posted by kashifshahzad@Nov 23 2005, 04:35 PM
Are there any chances for joint ventures i dont think China is happy from the thunders they are making their J-10 more and more advance.I cantunderstand that PAF have F-7s in their inventory this plane is capable of nearnly 2 Mach speed and has a quite reasonable range.Then i wanna know from where those engines came from which were fitter in F-7 cant China or Pakistan make copies of those then there will be no need for asking engines from russia and this would take Pakistan to indigniousity and can make a path to a Made in Pakistan Fighter-Bomber AC

[post=3538]Quoted post[/post]​

yes as a matter of fact we gave the HUD to the chinese!!

also jet engines are not like a remote control car...you cant buy some stuff of the market and fabricate others as the exact material is clasified...the jet engine is like a gun although the pathans can make it exactly the same it breaks after a few shots that is because the material they make it out of is no where near as good as the real guns..

if we copy the engines with difrent materials the engine wont work..one of the worlds worst aircraft crast was a fault of a 1 cm crack!! in the engine...


also the chinese have made a engine themselfes which will equip the thunder..

 

[Sharjeel]

BTW guys

PAF upgraded their F6s to carry western avionics..and where the first airforce to have eastern fighters with western avionics and weopens capability!

one F6 even shot down a MIG21 which is a whole generation ahead of the F6!!

 

[sigatoka]

I think the more important question is whether it is desirable for Pakistan to produce on its own the next generation of fighters. The current Pakistani strategy to pursue production and development with reliable partners like China dramtically reduce per unit cost because of bigger production runs. The difference is staggering in per unit costs can be staggering. For e.g. if only a 150 production of FC-1 would result in around 25million each while 150 pak. plus 150 china would result in 15million each.

More importantly by developing it with more advanced nations like China, pakistan gets access to better technology which it would otherwise have had to do without.

Just look at Indias Lav plane project. Its worse than a joke. Even China imports Russian planes, Produces Russian planes under licence and develops its own. pakistan being smaller should import planes and develop with other parters while also pushing for licence under production of Russian planes.

What it should not to at all costs is to develop on its own a sub-standard plane and piss away a few billion like India has. Pak. has fewer resources than India which makes it all the more important to not waste them.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Possible when u buy it and pest ur Country logo.

pest ?? is that the best word you can come up with in your ******* English ???

 

[Rank]

Possible when u buy it and pest ur Country logo.

Exactly just like India purchases Russian missle and tech and """"PEST"""" Indian brachuss oh i mean brahamos Logo and other sticker and apply Indian Flag color lolzzzzz

 

[bones20]

The Biggest technology blocks in making a fighter jet are:
1. Turbo fan Gas turbine engine: difficult to design turbo fans rotating at high speed under high temp/pressure. technology not available for sale/steal
2. Fly By wire Module: Fighter jets are designed with a relaxed static staibility to improve maneuverability. To make it stable you need a fly by wire module which no country is willing to sale.
3. Multi mode radar: This is manageable but still a time consuming exercise baring in mind that your amateur learning efforts are slower than parallel advancements around the world
4. Flight simulators, wind tunnel, testing infrastructure etc.

In my opinion, this is atleast a 10-15 year effort from scratch. It is a very risky project for various reasons. But the thing is that it is a first and an unavoidable step.

India started in 1987 and will see it in fruition in 2011 (hopefully). so that is 24 years. our delays can be attributed to personal failures, politics, bureaucracy, poor coordination between various depts, sanctions, lack of science and research.

HAL tejas as of now is completely indigenous baring engine and radar. Engine design is still in progress ( 90% criteria met). PESA radar is complete, AESA by 2013. India has a very stringent requirement for very high performance engine for super cruise capability. All in all, tejas is very impressive product - light weight, small, super cruise capability, weapons/load capacity, low maintainence/wear, good avionics, decent maneuverability, cost etc.

 

[RazorMC]

even LCA has some foreign parts india has always had hidden russian support in most of the research.

the jf-17 is functional and in production and the main advantage is that it has large room for upgrades. this means the exact specs/tech will be unknown to outsiders.

Pakistan can make it's own aircraft but it will take a lot of funds which we may not have.

 

[Arsalan]

rather then just specifying time frames that when we will make a rafale, when we will make and EF and then we will move upto fifth generation what is more important for me is that are we on the right track,
luckily, we are!
JF17 is a classic example to refelect upon our potentials, it is not a plane out of this world like it is claimed about SU30 or the next MMRCA winner for IAF (even though no one know what it will be but still everyone claim that it is the best in the world ) but still it is a real acheivement, there are a lot of points being raised about PAC contribution in this project but i am not here to debate on it as it have already beenmade clear in numerious post and all thosue who want to understand have got it, for those who never want to admit, let the matter stay as it is!!
now JF17 is a geat potential plane, it can be modified and upgraded according to will and requirment. in current specs many people tend not to think highly for it but them often forget that for the time being the focus is on rapid production to replace the dcades old fleet, once done with that issue the JF17 may well be take to next level, its airframe can support speed of well over Mach @ and the fuselag can be fitted with numerious typpes of engines, so if we want and need, we may get it to TV, high spped, more hard points, better radar,,
i dont mean that this will happen for sure but what i want to point out is that it canbe aken to thins league, it is just a matter of options available once we are done with the initial 250 stop gap planes, if we have smething better on option then PAF may go for it other wise can bring a 4.75 generation plane out of it,,

to conclude,
the main thing is not that when will we be able to make a fighter lke rafale
but,
it is when will be make a fighter plane,
and
this is what we have acheived. now it is upon our will, requirment and resources to bring a rafale out of it or make an EF!!

regards!

 

[Developereo]

Rather than building a fighter plane, which I admit would be a good achievement, we should focus on smaller goals first which require less money.

We should aim for indigenous state-of-the-art competence in
- composite materials
- radars
- design/testing infrastructure (wind tunnels, etc.)
- avionics (as much as we can)

The advantage is that these are relatively inexpensive technologies to develop and, instead of being buyers, we can become suppliers.

Things like jet engines and stealth technology can wait.

 

[Moscow]

actually its is only about 5 years behind russia (currently it has a radar simialr to the one on the su-27's ready, that is why the J-11B is all chinese, the radar is chinese becuase it is better than the russian version)

as it is developing a radar with russia and will then be on par with russia

soon the eu kill could be lifted and china could get alot of advanced electronics and radars from france (at the "right" price the french will sell)

in 5 years they could be on par with european radrs like those for the eurofighter and rafale

by 2012 the chinese want to fly their JXX, so it needs an advanced radar (not by 2012 imeedately but by 2015 to integrate as the lane gets to that stage)

-----------
the chinese are behnd but are catching up fast

china is 5 years behind russia on radar technology ? LOL, another LOL now a big LOOOOOOOOOL

YOU GOT MY POINT...

second j11 radar better than russian radars
now LOL wont even fit here i need to think about some other expression...

i am shocked that such posts still exist ....
have you ever heard of zhuk? or thikhimirov? i guess not
please do some more research ...


jxx by 2012 another, LOL

care you explain what you said in detail with links and also technically

 

[duhastmish]

china is 5 years behind russia on radar technology ? LOL, another LOL now a big LOOOOOOOOOL

YOU GOT MY POINT...

second j11 radar better than russian radars
now LOL wont even fit here i need to think about some other expression...

i am shocked that such posts still exist ....
have you ever heard of zhuk? or thikhimirov? i guess not
please do some more research ...


jxx by 2012 another, LOL

care you explain what you said in detail with links and also technically

ahhhrrrmmm - cough cough moscow that post is of 2005 almost 5 yr old post . so dont bother about him - he wont know about zhuk or anyother radar which were not avilable back then.

 

[Moscow]

thanks i didnt see the date,
sorry still its a sorry post

 

[Rank]

Everything is possible if (Money) available for such development.

 

[TaimiKhan]

After 4 years, this thread again comes to life, thx to Mr.Arvind . Amazing