Widebody War Looming For Indian AWACS?

[Chanakya's_Chant]

Widebody War Looming For Indian AWACS?

A competition lies ahead for the supply of six widebody jets for India's reloaded AWACS programme, an effort that looks provide the Indian Air Force with six platforms initially. The model above, appearing in public for the first time, depicts the proposed AWACS as being based on an Airbus A330 platform with the integrated 10-metre antenna radome. There's a reason: when the programme was revived some years ago, the DRDO had conducted an internal study and decided that the Airbus jet was what they wanted, though it was rapidly made clear that the field for widebodies was unrestricted, and that the DRDO needed to tender for those six jets. And that's what it began doing in March last year.

The DRDO is expected to issue an RFP, and the competition looks like it could potentially be a face-off between the Airbus A330 and the Boeing 767 (this post will be updated with official word from both, if they choose to). Word is Russia's United Aircraft Corp. could also send out feelers on the Il-76MD-90A as a potential platform for the AWACS.

Senior scientists at the Centre for Airborne Systems (CABS) I spoke to here at Aero India 2015 said fabrication of the 10 metre antenna was progressing well, and that there could be movement on data link and communication systems and electronics this year.

The IAF is looking to operate at least 15 AWACS aircraft. It currently has three Il-76 based PHALCON platforms and will soon sign up for two more. The Indian AWACS RfP is likely, therefore, to be for six modified widebody platforms with options for four-six more.

Source:- LIVEFIST: Widebody War Looming For Indian AWACS?

 

[tsarbomba]

The A330 is a better platform. Why even bother?

 

[kaykay]

Does that mean India will eventually operate
5 Phalcon AWACS
3 DRDO AEW&C( pry plane)+ whatever more they order apart from initial 3.
And 6 more AWACS apart from these 2 plans? Will radar of this AWACS indigenous? just like pry plane?

 

[sancho]

Does that mean India will eventually operate
5 Phalcon AWACS
3 DRDO AEW&C( pry plane)+ whatever more they order apart from initial 3.
And 6 more AWACS apart from these 2 plans? Will radar of this AWACS indigenous? just like pry plane?

If it's up to DRDO yes, IAF will have at least 3 different types of AWACS platforms and radars, just to suit DRDO's ego. I hope Parrikar follows IAF (which don't want more larger AWACS) and talk some sense into DRDO!

 

[Abingdonboy]

If it's up to DRDO yes, IAF will have at least 3 different types of AWACS platforms and radars, just to suit DRDO's ego. I hope Parrikar follows IAF (which don't want more larger AWACS) and talk some sense into DRDO!

Long term the IAF NEEDS more larger AWACS, the EMB-145s are fine for tactical missions but the Falcons blow them out of the water. No way is 5 Falcons enough for India- NO WAY sir.

Given the time the DRDO is looking to introduce these wide-bodied AWACS (2020) the IAF will be flush with cash and continuing its expansion so I really don't see any reasons why to curb this AWACS development, it is the need of the future for sure.


@Topic go with the A330, the IAF will already have it in service (A330 MRTT), the IL-76 will be far more expensive to operate thanks to it being Russian and 4 engined.

 

[sancho]

Long term the IAF NEEDS more larger AWACS, the EMB-145s are fine for tactical missions but the Falcons blow them out of the water. No way is 5 Falcons enough for India- NO WAY sir.

=>

September 24, 2012 - 15 surveillance aircraft to strengthen air defence

The Air Force aims to beef up air defence this decade with a mix of at least 15 large and small surveillance aircraft — or air-borne warning systems — Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Normal Anil Kumar Browne said here on Thursday...

...The present AWACS has an Israeli Phalcon radar system mounted on the Russian Ilyushin (IL-76) aircraft. The overall plan was to supplement them with ten smaller versions, or AEW&CS, in the next seven years, he said. ...

The Air Chief was speaking after an event to mark the arrival of the first of three modified Brazilian Embraer EMB 145 aircraft that will be fitted with the AEW&CS developed by the Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO)...

Russia might offer A-100 AWACS to India | Page 3


It's numbers that we need to provide 24/7 coverage of all the border areas, not just a few high end and very expensive aircrafts. Of the 5 Phalcons, 2 will be in the are at the same time, supplemented by smaller AWACS, which might hint on up to 3 AWACS for the eastern and 3 for the western borders.

 

[Abingdonboy]

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Russia might offer A-100 AWACS to India | Page 3


It's numbers that we need to provide 24/7 coverage of all the border areas, not just a few high end and very expensive aircrafts. Of the 5 Phalcons, 2 will be in the are at the same time, supplemented by smaller AWACS, which might hint on up to 3 AWACS for the eastern and 3 for the western borders.

"the next seven years" so 2021/2, what about beyond that? This is where the AWACS (India) comes in.No way are 10 AWACS enough for India beyond the immediate future.

 

[sancho]

No way are 10 AWACS enough for India beyond the immediate future.

It's not 10, but 15 in total and you have to include for which area, with what endurance..., we might add some for the coastal areas later, although they hardly need any highly costly or capable platform by the lack of air threads. There is simply no need to have an A50 Phalcon and an A330 DRDO AWACS operating at the same time in the same area, if at all one could replace the A50s in future and divert them to operations in and around the Bay of Bengal for example, but the current need now is inducting more numbers and not waiting for DRDO to develop AWACS India.

 

[IndoUS]

Didn't we pick A330 for refueling role for IAF, so wouldn't it be better to pick it for the AWACS role also just for commonality.

 

[sancho]

Didn't we pick A330 for refueling role for IAF, so wouldn't it be better to pick it for the AWACS role also just for commonality.

If the choice is between A330 and Boeings 767 only, then yes, but the Russians are offering the A50, based on the latest IL476 too, with commonality to the A50s we have and the MTAs we will get. The best choice for all sides is still the MTA! Smaller, more cost-effective, 50% owned by us and produced in India, able to carry a 360° radar, can carry the same interior of the A50, so perfectly fitting to IAF and DRDO's needs.

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

The A330 is a better platform. Why even bother?

Didn't we pick A330 for refueling role for IAF, so wouldn't it be better to pick it for the AWACS role also just for commonality.

If the choice is between A330 and Boeings 767 only, then yes, but the Russians are offering the A50, based on the latest IL476 too, with commonality to the A50s we have and the MTAs we will get. The best choice for all sides is still the MTA! Smaller, more cost-effective, 50% owned by us and produced in India, able to carry a 360° radar, can carry the same interior of the A50, so perfectly fitting to IAF and DRDO's needs.

Airbus Defence & Space appears to have emerged as the sole bidder for the global tender of DRDO AWACS.

AERO INDIA: Airbus sole bidder for Indian AWACS project​

Airbus Defence & Space appears to have emerged as the sole bidder for a global tender put out by New Delhi's Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) for an "AWACS India" programme. The tender – for six airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) system aircraft – was issued in March 2014.

Airbus submitted its proposal last October, an Airbus official confirms. Other sources indicate that the European company is the lone party to have responded to a request for proposals linked to the project.

Commercial bids have yet to be opened for the requirement, which is for an initial batch of two aircraft, followed by four more. Options to increase this fleet size to 10 could be exercised at a later stage.

On display on the DRDO stand at the Aero India show in Bengaluru on 18 February was a model of an Airbus A330 fitted with a radome. Officials at the display did not provide any further information about the programme.

Airbus would have to integrate the mission systems on the aircraft and gain certification that it is safe to fly with the radome. The airframer says it has been busy replying to Indian queries on technical aspects of the programme. “It is not an easy programme, and we have to do it with fully civilian certification, as requested by DRDO,” the company source says.

If a contract is signed for the A330 as the platform for the Indian AWACS effort, it will be the first instance of the type being used in the AEW&C role. Airbus Defence & Space has also been involved in jointly reviewing New Delhi's indigenously developed AEW&C system with India's Centre for Airborne Systems, with the first Embraer EMB-145-based example likely to secure initial operational clearance later this year.

Meanwhile, Airbus is waiting for a decision on India's planned contract for its A330 multirole tanker transport, having agreed to further extend the validity of its bid until 1 July. New Delhi runs the risk of encountering a cost escalation if further delays are encountered beyond this date.

It has been more than three years since the A330 was first chosen to meet the Indian air force's tanker requirements, with a planned acquisition of six of the type.

Source:- AERO INDIA: Airbus sole bidder for Indian AWACS project - 2/19/2015 - Flight Global

Does that mean India will eventually operate
5 Phalcon AWACS
3 DRDO AEW&C( pry plane)+ whatever more they order apart from initial 3.
And 6 more AWACS apart from these 2 plans? Will radar of this AWACS indigenous? just like pry plane?

Yes they will be indigenous - DRDO has been working on since the 1990's

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

Avro-style 'Situation' Hits Indian AWACS Effort​

​

A competition lies ahead for the supply of six widebody jets for India's reloaded AWACS programme, an effort that looks provide the Indian Air Force with six platforms initially. Except, not really. The model above of the DRDO AWACS, appearing in public for the first time, depicts the proposed system as being based on an Airbus A330 platform with the integrated 10-metre antenna radome. And DRDO hasn't missed the irony.

There's a reason: when the programme was revived some years ago, the DRDO had conducted an internal study and decided that the Airbus jet was what they wanted (based in part on the IAF's selection of the Airbus A330 MRTT as its next tanker), though it was rapidly made clear that the field for widebodies was unrestricted, and that the DRDO needed to tender for those six jets. And that's what it began doing in March last year.

The DRDO then issued an RFP in October 2014. And as with the Avro replacement programme, a sole bid has dropped in. Again, from Airbus for the A330. The competition originally looked like it could potentially have been a face-off between the Airbus A330(Airbus has responded to the RFI)and the Boeing 767, though the latter is understood to have chosen not to respond. Word is Russia's United Aircraft Corp. could also send out feelers on the Il-76MD-90A as a potential platform for the AWACS, though it remains unclear if it still has a chance. Either way, the situation now is single source, very much like the Airbus/Tata bid for the Avro replacement.

Senior scientists at the Centre for Airborne Systems (CABS) I spoke to here at Aero India 2015 said fabrication of the 10 metre antenna was progressing well, and that there could be movement on data link and communication systems and electronics this year.

The IAF is looking to operate at least 15 AWACS aircraft. It currently has three Il-76 based PHALCON platforms and will soon sign up for two more.

[This post has been updated with new information]

LIVEFIST: Avro-style 'Situation' Hits Indian AWACS Effort

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Livefist @livefist · 14m14 minutes ago
On being sole-bidder for IAF Avro-replacement, @Airbus says, 'Up to the GOI. There's a reason we end up sole bidder'.

 

[sancho]

Airbus Defence & Space appears to have emerged as the sole bidder for the global tender of DRDO AWACS.

AERO INDIA: Airbus sole bidder for Indian AWACS project​

Another embarrassment for DRDO, hope GOI now stops this nonsense and orders more EMB 145I's as soon as the radar system is fully tested.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Another embarrassment for DRDO, hope GOI now stops this nonsense and orders more EMB 145I's as soon as the radar system is fully tested.

Likely the order being for only 6 made this deal not too attractive to Boeing-similarly in the Avro replacement 40 units to be made in india was too small for most potential bidders. But I don't see how this is an embarrasment and I also don't see why you are pushing so hard for an inferior product (EMB-145i) and proposing stunting the next logical iteration of an AWACS designed in India i.e. a 360 degree solid state AWACS on a wide-bodied a/c. 5 Falcons are not going to be enough past 2020 (when the AWAC (India) project will be reaching maturity). For 2025 and beyond the AWACS (India) will be a perfect solution to the IAF's future needs. Do you really think 15 AWACS are enough for India beyond 2020?

I'm sorry sir but your logic seems incredibly flawed, what is wrong in the DRDO aiming big, I don't see them failing and then India will have a world class system designed and built in India and when it comes to things as sensitive as AWACS that is only a good thing. Or would you prefer the DRDO to abandon this and order more highly expensive Israeli maal? Because I know you would be against that too.

The AWACS (India) project is a winner IMHO in many respects in terms of timeline,, scope of the project and chance of success.