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Why Vietnam Will Be the Next Nuclear State

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coming soon uranium mining in Quang Nam
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- The good news and surprises Mining Vietnam when survey work 7/11 uranium deposits were discovered in Quang Nam have completed and prepared exploited for economic development.


At each assessment workshop the strategic planning, exploration, mining and processing of radioactive ores by the Quang Nam Department of Trade and Industry and the Research Institute for Industry Policy and Strategy - Ministry of Trade and Industry held yesterday, 26/8 at the Quang Nam scientists and leading experts 7 officially announced uranium ore deposits were discovered in Quang Nam. Here are 7 of 11 mines, detected radioactive ore in the country.

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Nong Son coal mine where identifying high uranium ore reserves.

According to official documents published at the workshop, radioactive ores (uranium ore is (U) and / or thorium) in Quang Nam Vietnam best quality.Placement mines, radioactive ore This low-lying districts Nong Son and Nam Giang district, including mine Pa Trick U, U Pa Rong mine, quarry States U Khe - Khe high, mine southeast Christmas party U, U An Diem mines, coal mines (U ) Nong Son, graphic mine (U) An Tien. In particular, U Pa Trick mines, U Pa Rong polls scheduled for completion before 2015.Arrive 2016-2020 will build mines and uranium mining in this capacity 100-130 tons of ore / year in each mine. ore volume will be turned Vietnam dead spot required to serve the country's economic development. Currently Quang Nam is completing procedures for the government to allow mining and processing . Vu

yeah... we will have enough nuclear fuel for civil and "other" purposes. our good friend Japan helps Vietnam developing missiles and sattelites technology :-)

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khoicongvutru5.jpg


this rocket missile baby from Japan is nice: Epsilon :D

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thamnhatvtqg1.JPG
 
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I strongly disagree with OP, Vietnam neither has monetary resources nor technical expertise to pursue nuclear weapons program.

Its chances of getting nuke from other nuclear power(s) are also thin.

Iraq..................
if you take a look at the power imbalance between Vietnam and China, you will see the gap is too huge for us to overcome.

if we add 1 warship, the chinese add 10 or more.
if we add 1 jet, they 10 or more.
whatever we do, we can never catch up. hopeless.

you see the chinese just deploys a fraction of coast guard vessels to protect oil rig, but the number is already nearly equal to ours in the inventory. they understand they can bully us without fearing consequences.
 
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NPT, is an international treaty whose objective is to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons and weapons technology. NPT is vague, true. But its purpose is quite clear.

Have a look at this map, it clearly shows why is that the case.

NPT_parties.svg


In the map above you'll see that the countries that are Non-signatory are also nuclear weapon states. Whereas, Japan, South Korea, Brazil, Germany, etc.. for instance are capable of being so, but they choose not to, and they're all ratifier.

It doesn't need to explicitly state "give it up", its purpose is to prevent building nukes in the first place. Vagueness of NPT is actually the very reason that Iran demands the right to nuclear fuel production capability but West based on its own different interpretation believes Iran doesn't have such right. However, in this case you went even further than Iran and believe in case of already owning nukes, you don't need to give it up. What's the use of NPT if everyone could interpret it to them own liking? And they all could be right you know!
The man's comment is this...

When you sign NPT, you agree to give up nuclear weapon in exchange for civil nuclear use. Do you understand?
Am trying to find out where in the NPT does it explicit say: 'Fess up yer nukes, bub.'

I literally worked around nuclear weapons before -- Victor Alert F-111Es. Each VA jet is loaded with a pair of external fuel tanks and a pair of B61s. These guys have never even felt the recoil of a .22 cal bullet.

I understand what the NPT's ultimate goal is. Am just trying to see if the Chinese members here exhibit any of that vaunted 'high Chinese IQ' we so often hear about and if they do any basic research before blabbering about shit they do not know.
 
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I wonder if you can provide proof that the UK and US actively helped the Israeli nuclear program. That said, I'm not sure why we're even talking about Israel, as its nuclear reactor came online even before the NPT was created.

If your contingency plans include invading North Korea to secure its nuclear weapons, good luck to you. When a country collapses, it's no simple matter keeping strategic assets out of the hands of undesirables.
Look it up.

We have a very good idea of North Korea nuke program because our official can visit North Korea anytime. In fact, we have a very good understanding of their nuclear facility.
 
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Let me summerize some points:
1. US provided Vietnam in 1963 a nuclear reactor. Until 2011, the reactor still using Highly Enriched Uranium ( HEU ).
The report express that US ever consider as safe to provide HEU and nuclear reactor to a Vietnam regime. Now the cooperation show the sign to be recovered by some nuclear pact.

2. Russia has been supplying HEU to Vietnam for decades. "Last 16kgs returned to Russia". We could doubt that's last kg or not. No one know.

3. US would not apply gold standard ( which is agree not to enrich the uranium ) when nego with Vietnam about 123 agreement. Vietnam want to keep the right to enrichment of uranium and reprocessing of plutonium, although state that has no plan to do that. ( But the choice to do that still be with us )

4. Vietnam has their own uranium ore mines and signed contracts to Canada, Russia, Japan, India ... for processing the materials for domestic usage. Next would be with USA. All also not consider Vietnam as their dangerous partner. But ...
-------------------------------------
Nuclear


Vietnam is poised to be the first Southeast Asian country with nuclear power, although a number of capacity-related obstacles may delay this.[6] On 21 July 2011, the Prime Minister approved the National Master Plan for Powered Development for 2011-2020 with the Vision to 2030. [7] The plan calls for seven reactors to be built, with the first completed by 2030. At that point, Vietnam plans a nuclear power capacity of 10,700 MW or 10.1% of its electricity production. Russia's Atomstroyexport will build Vietnam's first nuclear power plant at Phuoc Dinh (Ninh Thuan 1), consisting of two 1000MWe reactors. Russia has agreed to provide the majority of financing for the project—up to $9 billion according to a November 2011 agreement—and will provide additional assistance such as training and fuel services, including construction of a Nuclear Science and Technology Center and spent fuel take-back for the reactors. Japan has agreed to construct a second nuclear power plant at Vinh Hai (Ninh Thuan 2), composed of two 1000MWe reactors, and to provide additional training and assistance. [8] However, on 18 January 2014, the Vietnamese Government announced the Russian nuclear power plant contract could be delayed until 2020 due to safety concerns following the Fukushima earthquake. This delay will most likely affect the construction of the second Japanese power plant as well. [9]

Vietnam already maintains a research reactor at the Dalat Nuclear Research Center, which has operated since 1963. [10] This reactor originally operated using highly enriched uranium (HEU). By 2007, the reactor operated on mixed HEU and LEU assemblies, however Vietnam announced it would fully convert the reactor to low enriched uranium (LEU) at the Nuclear Security Summit in 2010. [11] This conversion was completed in December 2011.[12] In June 2013, the final 16kg of Vietnam's HEU stock was shipped back to Russia. [13]

In preparation for the construction of its nuclear power plants, Vietnam has expressed a willingness to improve its domestic capacity and to cooperate with the IAEA. Vietnam adopted an Atomic Energy Law in 2008 to provide a legal framework for its nuclear activities. [14] This law focuses on ensuring safety of persons, environment, and nonproliferation. The Vietnam Agency for Radiation and Nuclear Safety and Control (VARANSAC) and the Vietnam Atomic Energy Institute (VAEI) are the two main agencies, under the Ministry of Science and Technology, responsible for nuclear safety and security. Vietnam conducted a self-assessment of its nuclear infrastructure from December 2007 through December 2008, and in 2009 requested that the IAEA conduct an Integrated Nuclear Infrastructure Review (INIR) Mission. [15] The INIR Mission report suggested areas of improvement including, among others, human resources development and nuclear power project management. As a result, Hanoi established the Vietnam Atomic Energy Agency (VAEA) in 2010 to oversee research, development, and project management; the National Nuclear Safety Committee; the National Steering Committee of the Ninh Thuan Nuclear Power Plant Project; the Master Plan for Nuclear Power Development in Vietnam up to 2030; and the Master Project for Human Resources Development and Training for Atomic Energy in Vietnam up to 2020. [16]

On 30 March 2010, the United States and Vietnam signed a Memorandum of Understanding Concerning Cooperation in the Civil Nuclear Field, as a preliminary step to the negotiation of a 123 bilateral nuclear cooperation agreement. [17] At the East Asian Summit in Brunei in October 2013, both parties signed a 123 agreement which will establish the legal framework for nuclear commerce between the United States and Vietnam if and when it enters into force. [18] While the text of the agreement has not been made public, it appears that the Obama Administration did not impose the "gold standard" provision on Vietnam. [19] The "gold standard" provision refers to the U.S.-UAE 123 agreement, under which the UAE agreed not to pursue indigenous uranium enrichment or plutonium reprocessing capabilities. [20] Despite Congressional pressure to uniformly apply the "gold standard" to new 123 agreements, the Administration is so far negotiating agreements on a case-by-case basis. [21] Although a Vietnamese official stated that "Vietnam does not plan to enrich uranium, which is a very sensitive issue," Hanoi did not wish to agree to the inclusion of a no-enrichment and reprocessing pledge in the 123 agreement. [22] Like many non-nuclear weapon states, Vietnam believes that the NPT affords it the right to all capabilities associated with the peaceful nuclear fuel cycle. [23] On 7 January, the U.S. and Taiwan reached a nuclear cooperation deal that will last for an indefinite period of time without congressional review. Although the US-Vietnam nuclear cooperation agreement does not meet the gold standard, Vietnam also wishes to have indefinite extensions. [24]

Preliminary surveys indicate that Vietnam has uranium ore in the northern and central parts of the country estimated in the amount of 210,000 tons of U3O8. [25] The Vietnamese government signed an MOU with NWT Uranium Corporation of Canada to conduct exploration and assessment of these areas. [26] Vietnam concluded a nuclear cooperation agreement with Japan in October 2011 that includes the exploration and mining of uranium resources. An agreement with India includes a uranium ore processing technology study. [27]
 
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Vietnam will take time to get their own nuclear bomb as much as Iran.
 
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The man's comment is this...


Am trying to find out where in the NPT does it explicit say: 'Fess up yer nukes, bub.'

I literally worked around nuclear weapons before -- Victor Alert F-111Es. Each VA jet is loaded with a pair of external fuel tanks and a pair of B61s. These guys have never even felt the recoil of a .22 cal bullet.

I understand what the NPT's ultimate goal is. Am just trying to see if the Chinese members here exhibit any of that vaunted 'high Chinese IQ' we so often hear about and if they do any basic research before blabbering about shit they do not know.
You are a such a baloney. Do we need to spell out "exact words for words" in order for you to understand that the main goal of NPT is complete disarmament of nuclear weapon? Article VI of NPT specifically stated this:

Article VI

Each of the Parties to the Treaty undertakes to pursue negotiations in good faith on effective measures relating to cessation of the nuclear arms race at an early date and to nuclear disarmament, and on a treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control.

Now, the P5 obviously will not do so but seek to reduce nuclear weapon with the goal of complete disarmament if all P5 agreed to do so. Obviously, for self-interest, some don't want to. Namely, The great United States of the World.. LOL Also the non-signee like but known nuclear weapon states like India, Israel refused to give up nuclear weapon in exchange for civil nuclear cooperation with members of NPT. Why do you think they don't sign NPT, my friend? LOL
 
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Look it up.

We have a very good idea of North Korea nuke program because our official can visit North Korea anytime. In fact, we have a very good understanding of their nuclear facility.
according to SIPRI, N Korea possesses 6-8 nukes.
does China know where the nukes are? if the regime collapses, how will China gain control of these nukes?
 
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according to SIPRI, N Korea possesses 6-8 nukes.
does China know where the nukes are? if the regime collapses, how will China gain control of these nukes?
The quick answer is a yes. We spy on them, just like our American friends, except our spy is some very high-ranking NK officials. Let not forget, the 2nd in command and most of the North Korea generals have good tie with our PLA generals. How we gain control is simple and this is my take and theory only as we have several options available. We can support and fund certain division within Korean People's Army to secure the nuclear facility until our force arrived. This is a potential collaboration with the US to secure nuclear weapon. I am not surprised if we already talk with the US in secrecy over this.
 
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You are a such a baloney. Do we need to spell out "exact words for words" in order for you to understand that the main goal of NPT is complete disarmament of nuclear weapon? Article VI of NPT specifically stated this:

Article VI

Each of the Parties to the Treaty undertakes to pursue negotiations in good faith on effective measures relating to cessation of the nuclear arms race at an early date and to nuclear disarmament, and on a treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control.

Now, the P5 obviously will not do so but seek to reduce nuclear weapon with the goal of complete disarmament if all P5 agreed to do so. Obviously, for self-interest, some don't want to. Namely, The great United States of the World.. LOL Also the non-signee like but known nuclear weapon states like India, Israel refused to give up nuclear weapon in exchange for civil nuclear cooperation with members of NPT. Why do you think they don't sign NPT, my friend? LOL
Cessation of the nuclear arms race does not mean you have to give up your EXISTING STOCKPILE. It means you stop building more.

As for the treaty on disarmament, care to explain how many nuclear weapons China disarmed and destroyed under UN supervision ?

China's Position on Nuclear Disarmament

Statement by the Chinese Delegation on Nuclear Disarmament at the Thematic Debate at the First Committee of the 67th Session of UNGA
China will continue to keep its nuclear capabilities at the minimum level required for national security.
What is that 'minimum level' ? One hundred nuclear ICBMs ? Two hundred ? One thousand ?

Yes, the ultimate goal of the NPT is complete nuclear disarmament, but according to your feeble intellect, shitty basic research, and general dishonesty, disarmament is for others, not for China.
 
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Cessation of the nuclear arms race does not mean you have to give up your EXISTING STOCKPILE. It means you stop building more.

As for the treaty on disarmament, care to explain how many nuclear weapons China disarmed and destroyed under UN supervision ?

China's Position on Nuclear Disarmament

Statement by the Chinese Delegation on Nuclear Disarmament at the Thematic Debate at the First Committee of the 67th Session of UNGA

What is that 'minimum level' ? One hundred nuclear ICBMs ? Two hundred ? One thousand ?

Yes, the ultimate goal of the NPT is complete nuclear disarmament, but according to your feeble intellect, shitty basic research, and general dishonesty, disarmament is for others, not for China.
You are beyond dumb. LOL Why do I have keep explaining this. I said again if you are a non-recognizable nuclear weapon state that wants to join NPT so you can enjoy the benefit of international civil nuclear technology exchange, then you must disarm your nuclear arsenal. Otherwise, you stay out of NPT and keep your nuke. This is why India, Israel, and Pakistan never join NPT because they are not officially recognizable nuclear weapon state. If they are recognizable nuclear weapon state, they can join NPT and follow the treaty obligation on cessation and disarmament to the fullest extend. However as I already said, due to your Uncle Sam's position on keeping nuclear, other nuclear powers are force to react and keep their nuke.

You want to blame us on disarmament? Are you a joke? Ask your Uncle Sam to reduce your nuclear weapon to a few hundred nuke like us first before we can talk, okay? LOL Last but not least, ask your Uncle Sam to have a no 1st use nuclear strike. This way, everyone can assure a non-nuclear weapon use. In fact, our position regarding nuclear policy is that. We want complete disarmament if everyone does the same, namely you the Great America of the World! LOL

No proof, then, which is expected.

Today, Israel is the world's sixth most powerful nuclear state, with a stockpile of more than 100 nuclear weapons and with the components and ability to build atomic, neutron and hydrogen bombs. Israel's nuclear program began and still operates under tight secrecy, but in the 1980s a series of revelations showed the crucial role played by foreign suppliers.

France launched Israel on the nuclear path in the late 1950s by building the Dimona reactor, which is still the source of Israel's plutonium--its main nuclear weapon fuel. The reactor's heavy water, essential to achieve a chain reaction, was supplied by Norway in 1959. In 1963, when the reactor started operation, the United States supplied four more tons of heavy water.

Israel got other nuclear help from the United States, which also supplied a small 5-megawatt (thermal) research reactor at Nahal Soreq. The reactor started in 1960, but cannot produce significant quantities of plutonium. Instead, the reactor offered an early training ground for Israeli nuclear technicians. Later in the 1960s, Israel was widely thought to have smuggled more than 100 kilograms of highly enriched uranium out of a nuclear materials plant in Pennsylvania.

France's contribution

Franco-Israeli nuclear cooperation is described in detail in the book "Les Deux Bombes" (1982) by French journalist Pierre Pean, who gained access to the official French files on Dimona. The book revealed that the Dimona's cooling circuits were built two to three times larger than necessary for the 26-megawatt reactor Dimona was supposed to be--proof that it had always been intended to make bomb quantities of plutonium. The book also revealed that French technicians had built a plutonium extraction plant at the same site. According to Pean, French nuclear assistance enabled Israel to produce enough plutonium for one bomb even before the 1967 Six Day War. France also gave Israel nuclear weapon design information.

In 1986, Francis Perrin, high commissioner of the French atomic energy agency from 1951 to 1970, was quoted in the press as saying that France and Israel had worked closely together for two years in the late 1950s to design an atom bomb. Perrin said that the United States had agreed that the French scientists who worked on the Manhattan Project could apply their knowledge at home provided they kept it secret. But then, Perrin said, "We considered we could give the secrets to Israel provided they kept it a secret themselves." He added: "We thought the Israeli bomb was aimed against the Americans, not to launch it against America but to say 'if you don't want to help us in a critical situation we will require you to help us, otherwise we will use our nuclear bombs.'"

British aid
Top secret British documents[48][49] obtained by BBC Newsnight show that Britain made hundreds of secret shipments of restricted materials to Israel in the 1950s and 1960s. These included specialist chemicals for reprocessing and samples of fissile material—uranium-235 in 1959, and plutonium in 1966, as well as highly enrichedlithium-6, which is used to boost fission bombs and fuel hydrogen bombs.[50] The investigation also showed that Britain shipped 20 tons of heavy water directly to Israel in 1959 and 1960 to start up the Dimona reactor.[51] The transaction was made through a Norwegian front company called Noratom, which took a 2% commission on the transaction. Britain was challenged about the heavy water deal at the International Atomic Energy Agency after it was exposed on Newsnight in 2005. British Foreign Minister Kim Howells claimed this was a sale to Norway. But a formerBritish intelligence officer who investigated the deal at the time confirmed that this was really a sale to Israel and the Noratom contract was just a charade.[52] The Foreign Office finally admitted in March 2006 that Britain knew the destination was Israel all along.[53] Israel admits running the Dimona reactor with Norway's heavy water since 1963. French engineers who helped build Dimona say the Israelis were expert operators, so only a relatively small portion of the water was lost during the years since the reactor was first put into operation.[54]
 
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You are beyond dumb. LOL Why do I have keep explaining this. I said again if you are a non-recognizable nuclear weapon state that wants to join NPT so you can enjoy the benefit of international civil nuclear technology exchange, then you must disarm your nuclear arsenal. Otherwise, you stay out of NPT and keep your nuke. This is why India, Israel, and Pakistan never join NPT because they are not officially recognizable nuclear weapon state. If they are recognizable nuclear weapon state, they can join NPT and follow the treaty obligation on cessation and disarmament to the fullest extend. However as I already said, due to your Uncle Sam's position on keeping nuclear, other nuclear powers are force to react and keep their nuke.

You want to blame us on disarmament? Are you a joke? Ask your Uncle Sam to reduce your nuclear weapon to a few hundred nuke like us first before we can talk, okay? LOL Last but not least, ask your Uncle Sam to have a no 1st use nuclear strike. This way, everyone can assure a non-nuclear weapon use. In fact, our position regarding nuclear policy is that. We want complete disarmament if everyone does the same, namely you the Great America of the World! LOL
What a dope...:lol:

There are two ways to join (sign) the NPT:

- As a nuclear state, or to put it another way a nuclear capable state (NCS).

- As a nuclear weapons state (NWS).

So by what qualification does the NPT have to say either way ?

UNODA - Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT)
Article XI

This Treaty, the English, Russian, French, Spanish and Chinese texts of which are equally authentic, shall be deposited in the archives of the Depositary Governments. Duly certified copies of this Treaty shall be transmitted by the Depositary Governments to the Governments of the signatory and acceding States.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF the undersigned, duly authorized, have signed this Treaty.

DONE in triplicate, at the cities of London, Moscow and Washington, the first day of July, one thousand nine hundred and sixty-eight.
Note paragraph 3 of Article 9.

The interpretation is that in order to enter (sign) the NPT as a nuclear weapons state, you must have test detonated at least one nuclear explosive device before 1967.

Here is a verification of that interpretation...

Is India a non-nuclear weapon state under the Rarotonga Treaty? | Arms Control Law
Article IX(3) of the NPT defines a NWS as a state ‘which has manufactured and exploded a nuclear weapon or other nuclear explosive device prior to 1 January 1967’.
That mean if you test detonated a device after 1967, you cannot enter (sign) the NPT as an NSW but only as a nuclear capable state (NCS).

That mean India, Pakistan, and Israel, three countries with known or at least highly suspected, nuclear weapons stockpiles, can enter (sign) the NPT only as non weapons states.

That mean when you said this...

When you sign NPT, you agree to give up nuclear weapon in exchange for civil nuclear use.
...You are flat out wrong. There is NOTHING in the NPT that says: If you are not a signatory to the NPT and have nuclear weapons, you must disarm before you can join.

There is nothing in the NPT that says disarmament is mandatory. Disarmament is an altruism, or a morally desirable goal, so if the US and the USSR/Russia decide to disarm, any treaty will be between the US and the USSR/Russia, excluding everyone else. If the US and China decides to disarm, any disarmament procedures falls inside the legality of the treaty unique to the US and China, excluding everyone else.

If India, Pakistan, and Israel want to enter (sign) the NPT, the NPT itself will have to be amended to consider what happens after 1967 and to categorize these three countries as NWS.

From the same source...

Is India a non-nuclear weapon state under the Rarotonga Treaty? | Arms Control Law
Under the NPT, therefore, India is not, and cannot be unless the treaty is amended, a NWS, as it has not manufactured or exploded a nuclear device before 1 January 1967.
So much for that 'high Chinese IQ'...:lol:
 
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You are beyond dumb. LOL Why do I have keep explaining this. I said again if you are a non-recognizable nuclear weapon state that wants to join NPT so you can enjoy the benefit of international civil nuclear technology exchange, then you must disarm your nuclear arsenal. Otherwise, you stay out of NPT and keep your nuke. This is why India, Israel, and Pakistan never join NPT because they are not officially recognizable nuclear weapon state. If they are recognizable nuclear weapon state, they can join NPT and follow the treaty obligation on cessation and disarmament to the fullest extend. However as I already said, due to your Uncle Sam's position on keeping nuclear, other nuclear powers are force to react and keep their nuke.

You want to blame us on disarmament? Are you a joke? Ask your Uncle Sam to reduce your nuclear weapon to a few hundred nuke like us first before we can talk, okay? LOL Last but not least, ask your Uncle Sam to have a no 1st use nuclear strike. This way, everyone can assure a non-nuclear weapon use. In fact, our position regarding nuclear policy is that. We want complete disarmament if everyone does the same, namely you the Great America of the World! LOL



Today, Israel is the world's sixth most powerful nuclear state, with a stockpile of more than 100 nuclear weapons and with the components and ability to build atomic, neutron and hydrogen bombs. Israel's nuclear program began and still operates under tight secrecy, but in the 1980s a series of revelations showed the crucial role played by foreign suppliers.

France launched Israel on the nuclear path in the late 1950s by building the Dimona reactor, which is still the source of Israel's plutonium--its main nuclear weapon fuel. The reactor's heavy water, essential to achieve a chain reaction, was supplied by Norway in 1959. In 1963, when the reactor started operation, the United States supplied four more tons of heavy water.

Israel got other nuclear help from the United States, which also supplied a small 5-megawatt (thermal) research reactor at Nahal Soreq. The reactor started in 1960, but cannot produce significant quantities of plutonium. Instead, the reactor offered an early training ground for Israeli nuclear technicians. Later in the 1960s, Israel was widely thought to have smuggled more than 100 kilograms of highly enriched uranium out of a nuclear materials plant in Pennsylvania.

France's contribution

Franco-Israeli nuclear cooperation is described in detail in the book "Les Deux Bombes" (1982) by French journalist Pierre Pean, who gained access to the official French files on Dimona. The book revealed that the Dimona's cooling circuits were built two to three times larger than necessary for the 26-megawatt reactor Dimona was supposed to be--proof that it had always been intended to make bomb quantities of plutonium. The book also revealed that French technicians had built a plutonium extraction plant at the same site. According to Pean, French nuclear assistance enabled Israel to produce enough plutonium for one bomb even before the 1967 Six Day War. France also gave Israel nuclear weapon design information.

In 1986, Francis Perrin, high commissioner of the French atomic energy agency from 1951 to 1970, was quoted in the press as saying that France and Israel had worked closely together for two years in the late 1950s to design an atom bomb. Perrin said that the United States had agreed that the French scientists who worked on the Manhattan Project could apply their knowledge at home provided they kept it secret. But then, Perrin said, "We considered we could give the secrets to Israel provided they kept it a secret themselves." He added: "We thought the Israeli bomb was aimed against the Americans, not to launch it against America but to say 'if you don't want to help us in a critical situation we will require you to help us, otherwise we will use our nuclear bombs.'"

British aid
Top secret British documents[48][49] obtained by BBC Newsnight show that Britain made hundreds of secret shipments of restricted materials to Israel in the 1950s and 1960s. These included specialist chemicals for reprocessing and samples of fissile material—uranium-235 in 1959, and plutonium in 1966, as well as highly enrichedlithium-6, which is used to boost fission bombs and fuel hydrogen bombs.[50] The investigation also showed that Britain shipped 20 tons of heavy water directly to Israel in 1959 and 1960 to start up the Dimona reactor.[51] The transaction was made through a Norwegian front company called Noratom, which took a 2% commission on the transaction. Britain was challenged about the heavy water deal at the International Atomic Energy Agency after it was exposed on Newsnight in 2005. British Foreign Minister Kim Howells claimed this was a sale to Norway. But a formerBritish intelligence officer who investigated the deal at the time confirmed that this was really a sale to Israel and the Noratom contract was just a charade.[52] The Foreign Office finally admitted in March 2006 that Britain knew the destination was Israel all along.[53] Israel admits running the Dimona reactor with Norway's heavy water since 1963. French engineers who helped build Dimona say the Israelis were expert operators, so only a relatively small portion of the water was lost during the years since the reactor was first put into operation.[54]


If you consider shipments of heavy water and chemicals as assistance, then I concede. The 5 MW research reactor is a red herring, since even universities have their own research reactors; and to show how trivial such equipment is, the US supplied a 5 MW research reactor to Iran in 1960. France was, as I claimed, the primary contributor of both technology and actual construction. Nevertheless, all of that assistance happened before the NPT even came into existence.

I can't even remember why we're arguing this anymore, since Israel never signed the NPT, so has never been in violation of the NPT.
 
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What a dope...:lol:

There are two ways to join (sign) the NPT:

- As a nuclear state, or to put it another way a nuclear capable state (NCS).

- As a nuclear weapons state (NWS).

So by what qualification does the NPT have to say either way ?

UNODA - Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT)

Note paragraph 3 of Article 9.

The interpretation is that in order to enter (sign) the NPT as a nuclear weapons state, you must have test detonated at least one nuclear explosive device before 1967.

Here is a verification of that interpretation...

Is India a non-nuclear weapon state under the Rarotonga Treaty? | Arms Control Law

That mean if you test detonated a device after 1967, you cannot enter (sign) the NPT as an NSW but only as a nuclear capable state (NCS).

That mean India, Pakistan, and Israel, three countries with known or at least highly suspected, nuclear weapons stockpiles, can enter (sign) the NPT only as non weapons states.

That mean when you said this...


...You are flat out wrong. There is NOTHING in the NPT that says: If you are not a signatory to the NPT and have nuclear weapons, you must disarm before you can join.

There is nothing in the NPT that says disarmament is mandatory. Disarmament is an altruism, or a morally desirable goal, so if the US and the USSR/Russia decide to disarm, any treaty will be between the US and the USSR/Russia, excluding everyone else. If the US and China decides to disarm, any disarmament procedures falls inside the legality of the treaty unique to the US and China, excluding everyone else.

If India, Pakistan, and Israel want to enter (sign) the NPT, the NPT itself will have to be amended to consider what happens after 1967 and to categorize these three countries as NWS.

From the same source...

Is India a non-nuclear weapon state under the Rarotonga Treaty? | Arms Control Law

So much for that 'high Chinese IQ'...:lol:
You write all those and just proved my point exactly that a non-NPT nuclear weapon member MUST DISARM their nuclear arsenal to join as Non-nuclear weapon state. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS SIMPLE FACT or do I have to say it more clearly? LOL The UN Security Council specifically passed Resolution 1887 in 2009 which called upon all non-NPT members (India, Israel, Pakistan) to give up nuke and join NPT as Non-nuclear weapon states in the following Resolution 1887, IV.

4. Calls upon all States that are not Parties to the NPT to accede to the

Treaty as non-nuclear-weapon States
so as to achieve its universality at an early

date, and pending their accession to the Treaty, to adhere to its terms;

So again, the only way a non-NPT members such as India, Israel, and Pakistan can join NPT is by giving up nuclear weapon and join as Non-nuclear weapon state. I don't think I have to say it more clearly than that, my friend. LOL
 
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