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Why Tunisia’s Transition to Democracy Is Succeeding While Egypt Falters

The Tunisians are slightly (only slightly) more tolerant of each othere

They have tried to do stupid things as well but they have been lucky

Lets not discount the luck factor when it comes to Tunisia

The conservative and secular muslims in Tunisia have not been so standoffish

In Egypt the secularists demands to destroy conservative muslims and not allow them to contest, win/lose elections has led them to this point

The Islamist has become the savior of Tunisia democracy...and the secular party in Tunisia is still acting like a child.....the different between Egypt and Tunisia...in Egypt the Islamist never want to give up (and it is their right in democracy).

The things is quite different in Indonesia, the secular party (PDI-P) has bad memory with the Army...because PDI-P is Sukarnoist....and Sukarnoist is a rival of former president (Soeharto/Army leader).....the Army was with the Islamist in 1966 to topple Soekarno.....So, thats why our President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono (retired Army general) has a coalition with the Islamist...while PDI-P is in the opposition seat.
 
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The Islamist has become the savior of Tunisia democracy...and the secular party in Tunisia is still acting like a child.....the different between Egypt and Tunisia...in Egypt the Islamist never want to give up (and it is their right in democracy).
Sorry to disagree with you..Islamist didn't bring anything to Tunisia but despair like their Egyptian counterpart. It was the Tunisian people and their political elite that brought positive changes we are witnessing today..

The new constitution was adopted..
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The Islamist has become the savior of Tunisia democracy...and the secular party in Tunisia is still acting like a child.....the different between Egypt and Tunisia...in Egypt the Islamist never want to give up (and it is their right in democracy).

The things is quite different in Indonesia, the secular party (PDI-P) has bad memory with the Army...because PDI-P is Sukarnoist....and Sukarnoist is a rival of former president (Soeharto/Army leader).....the Army was with the Islamist in 1966 to topple Soekarno.....So, thats why our President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono (retired Army general) has a coalition with the Islamist...while PDI-P is in the opposition seat.


The Islamic party in Tunisia won the democratic vote...

The secular scummy types in Tunisa were just as bent out of shape as the secular types in Egypt,

The difference was that the Tunisian army isnt as involved as the Egyptian


So in Egypt a unholy alliance of the Military/Deep state and the secular liberal types who feared conservative muslims would take away their alcohol and mini skirts instigated a coup and have attempted to destroy a party which has won all the democratic elections in Egypt. It has then oppressed/suppressed/killed its supporters and bought the jack boot down on all and any dissent

So the generals in egypt maybe have destroyed the M.B but their is no immense hatred, division and feelings of revenge



In Tunisa if the Military sided with the secular types the same thing could have happened, but they remained outside of politics as it should be and both the secular politicians and islamic politians were willing to make some compromises

It will take time for Tunisa to succeed but it has a better basis then the Egyptians that for sure
 
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The Islamic party in Tunisia won the democratic vote...

The secular scummy types in Tunisa were just as bent out of shape as the secular types in Egypt,

The difference was that the Tunisian army isnt as involved as the Egyptian


So in Egypt a unholy alliance of the Military/Deep state and the secular liberal types who feared conservative muslims would take away their alcohol and mini skirts instigated a coup and have attempted to destroy a party which has won all the democratic elections in Egypt. It has then oppressed/suppressed/killed its supporters and bought the jack boot down on all and any dissent

So the generals in egypt maybe have destroyed the M.B but their is no immense hatred, division and feelings of revenge



In Tunisa if the Military sided with the secular types the same thing could have happened, but they remained outside of politics as it should be and both the secular politicians and islamic politians were willing to make some compromises

It will take time for Tunisa to succeed but it has a better basis then the Egyptians that for sure

Thanks for that information. By the way....the situation in Egypt is like Turkey before Erdogan in my opinion. With this kind of situation, the islamist in Turkey tries to be flexible in order to come again to the game right after their party get banned. In Egypt, Muslim Brotherhood is so stubborn to follow Turkey's Islamist model....so they can not enter the next political game anymore....as it has already become a terorist organisation (of course it is the army version and not true in reality).

Indonesia was actually a military nation under Soeharto......but it can become like Today because we have strong history as a country lead by the civil power (independent strugle) from 1945-1966. In our reformation struggle (1998)....it was Soeharto who stepped down....so Army doesnt have any stake in letting democracy to happen....the story that quiet different when it comes to Egypt
 
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the west supports the MB
the US cut off the aid to our army
the western media support the brotherhood day and night
alot of brotherhood members are right now in the UK
qatar this tiny country which has the largest US air force base support the brotherhood with all they got
obama statement
President Barack Obama condemned the deadly violence in Egypt and said the U.S. is canceling plans to hold joint military exercises with the country next month. Watch the full statement.
the west may say they oppose extremests but their actions serve them all the time
All too true, my friend! This prez thinks little of sacrificing democratic principles for short-term advantage. Bush II was made of different stuff: though eventually he caved in to Mubarak, he wouldn't have passed up later opportunities to support democratic forces over tyrannical ones.

Hopefully the next prez will be different.
 
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1 Nadha Party give up many of his programs for the success of the democratic process like Islamic state and Shariah as basic source of legislation but the MB are stubborn and hold on legitimacy and they do not accept dialogue with the secular so they fall
2 the Tunisian army is by Military low don't have the right to intervene in politics and any one call for the army to Intervene in politics he go to jail but the Egyptian army he was in rule in Mubarak time so he find in anti Morsi protest as way back
 
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Respectfully disagree.
Democracy is issue based. Even illiterates have an idea of freedom of expression.

Its better to allow educated people argue than some illiterate dumb@$$. Case study: Pakistan(forget it)

Case Study: America, even in our first decades only landowners could vote. And the landowners were all white so...
Universal voting only came in effect in the 1870. Actual Universal voting after 1967.

It is Algeria's capability that kept Lybian militia's from taking Tunisia and kept Qatar at bay!

You severely underestimate Tunisian capabilities. The common homeless man would have fought this invasion by throwing his shoes at the Libyan militia.

All in all Tunisians aren't as divided by tribe, ethnicity, or religion as much as other Arab countries. They view themselves as above all Tunisian.
 
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You severely underestimate Tunisian capabilities. The common homeless man would have fought this invasion by throwing his shoes at the Libyan militia.



I do not, but the contribution of Algeria in keeping Tunisia safe from a Libyan threats doesn't date from yesterday. I does not mean that Algeria interfered in their internal affairs, but she gave the Tunisian some means to control their borders that the Tunisian army doesn't possesses yet.

All in all Tunisians aren't as divided by tribe, ethnicity, or religion as much as other Arab countries. They view themselves as above all Tunisian.

You are absolutely correct there. As I wrote , in the last page, Bourguiba has a created a political elite that all the Arab states lack. All his relentless work in creating a modern Tunisia brought its fruit yesterday when as , a people, they voted in a new constitution. That is a tremendous achievement and should serve to all Arab states as , an example to follow! Bravo Tunisians and Bravo for Tunisia...and prayers to Bourguiba who's vision saved Today's Tunisia from the grip of Muslim radicals.

Egypt, to our sorrow will not be that lucky, since their internal problem are more severe and to top it, a divided society that was largely exacerbated by Mubarek. Our prayers are with Egypt.
 
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Tunisia's new strong man
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Tunisia's new government to win the confidence
The Monde.fr with AFP |01/29/2014 at 2:13 • Updated 01/29/2014 at 10:16

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The independent government of Mehdi JOMAA won the confidence of the Assembly in the night from Tuesday 28 to Wednesday, January 29. After a marathon debate, one hundred and forty to nine elected favor (he was collectingthe support of at least one hundred and nine members) against twenty and twenty-four abstained, allowing the entry according to the firm, with the mission to get theTunisia deep crisis policy through which it passes and organize in the election year.

The formation of this government is the result of weeks of negotiations that included most of the political class. He succeeds the team led by the Islamist Ennahda, who agreed to leave the power .
Read the interview: Rached Ghannouchi: "Ennahda left office by ethical choice"

The exercise proved more difficult than expected for Mr. Jomaa, which the late morning until nearly 1 am faced criticism from many members accusing members of his firm have served important functions under Ben Ali. The candidate for Minister of Justice , Hafedh Ben Sala, was particularly targeted.

"If you vote for this government, you will sign the death warrant of the revolution " , launched one of the elect, Hichem Hosni. "Lift up the debate! It does not happen toacknowledge people when they can be innocent " , replied the deputy Salah Chouaieb. No evidence of these accusations have been made, no investigation of magnitude have been conducted since the revolution crimes committed during the two decades of the Ben Ali regime.

SUPREME GOAL: "ELECTIONS FREE AND INTACT"



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Mehdi Jomaa wanted for his hand to defend his family, assuring have made his choice on the basis of "the competence [of] independence [of] integrity" while promising to look into the charges against her Ministers believed to have served under the former regime. "If there are ministers who do not meet one of these criteria, I agree to revise" the composition of the cabinet, said Jomaa .

In the morning he had set its priorities in his policy speech, emphasizing the need to restore security against "terrorism" and create the conditions for raising the economy so that elections can be held in 2014. Do not " forget the difficulties of the transition period:, security challenges economic, social and political. The ultimate goal is to move towards free and honest elections " said Mr. Jomaa, little known to the public but deemed independent.

Since its revolution, Tunisia is undermined by a growing jihadist movement and is also regularly destabilized by social, sometimes violent conflicts, mainly because of rampant unemployment. Mr. Jomaa has called for "calm social " , in reference to wildcat strikes and regular blocks of businesses , including public, for the forceto hiring.

The formation of this government should be the last step of the "transition to democracy" launched in January 2011. His appointment is in the wake of the adoption Sunday, after more than two years of debate, the new Constitution .

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Tunisia: Mehdi Jomaa obtained the confidence of 149 elected

HuffPost Maghreb | By Monia Ben HamadiPublished:29/01/2014 1:43 CET
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It goes hands down! Having suffered sharp criticism from some members of the government of Mehdi Jomaa has earned the trust of 149 members, and surpassing the two-thirds majority of the Assembly to 1h the morning. He obtained 10 votes more than his predecessor, Ali Larayedh last March. Elected 24 abstained and 20 voted against.
"When you come out of a meeting like this where critics were fed in general is reinforced fate" had fun Mehdi Jomaa in statements to the media after the vote of confidence.
Before entering the vote, Mehdi Jomaa responded to questions from members who spoke in turn during the day until late in the evening.
"The Constitution as you passed had a very positive impact on the economic situation of the country. And giving your trust this government will also have a positive message to our partners," assured Mehdi Jomaa.
"I is not developed program because it can not stay in the time allotted to me. I made a presentation of the priorities that will be ours in the coming months," said the new prime minister, responding to those who demanded a more detailed program.
Other elected officials have raised fears that the government extend its mandate beyond the deadline for elections. "The transitional provisions are clear, we can not go beyond the year 2014. This is not the government that will set the election date but we hope they can keep faster to stabilize the situation of the country, "he reassured.
"For the fact that several ministers have foreign degrees, it is not a shame. Tunisians Tunisians remain where they are and have lived abroad, I know what it is," continued the Head of Government, in response to criticism of Souad Abderrahim (Ennahdha) for which he was sent a negative message to the Tunisian university graduates.
He finally returned on economic priorities, indicating that the next debts Tunisia should be devoted to investment. For Component appointments to high administrative functions, he said they primarily concern the governors and would be based on the competence and neutrality.
At the end of the session, Mustapha Ben Jaafar announced that a dialogue will take place every month between the Assembly and the Government.

Vote of confidence in government JOMAA: Who voted for and who voted against?
HuffPost Maghreb | By Sarah Ben HamadiPublished:29/01/2014 10:14 CET


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The Government of Mehdi JOMAA received late in the evening of Wednesday the confidence of the Assembly: 149 for, 20 against and 24 abstentions. During the session, the new cabinet has faced several criticisms of Members, particularly concerning the independence and integrity of some ministers . How did you vote?Review of parliamentary blocs after the publication of votes by the Al Bawsala on its website Marsad.tn observatory Assembly .

Ennahdha and Ettakatol, block behind the government

Ennahdha in a single abstention, that the elected Hajer Azouz, and one in absetntion Ettakatol, the Faycel Jadlaoui. Both parties, allies in the Troika leaves power, voted en bloc for the new government.

Democratic Bloc divided

15 for, 2 against and 13 abstentions, the Democrats block is very divided on this government. Component parties with differing opinions on the formation of the team and the program.

Elected Nida Tunes, Afek and voted for the Democratic Alliance. Those of Al and Al Massar Jomhuri have criticized the choice of some ministers and announced by the head of government, considered below expectations program, they then abstain from voting, except Salma BACCAR (Al Massar) who voted for the government.

Mongi Rahoui Party (unified Democrats) and Karim Bouabdelli (Maghreb Liberal Party) both voted against the government. The coalition of the Popular Front which Mongi Rahoui is one of the leaders announced its hostile position to the government from the first Sunday night announcement. "We will not support the government JOMAA Mehdi who is under the influence of Ennahdha and its allies "had told TAP one of its leaders, Zied Lakhdar .

CPR: rather for

Members of Congress for the Republic, the party of President of the Republic Moncef Marzouki has been rather favorable to the government formed by Mehdi Jomaa. 8 to 1 against and one abstention from Mabrouka Mbarek. The CPR had not yet participated in the National Dialogue which negotiations led to the appointment of Mehdi JOMAA to head a new government. Two deputies, Hichem Ben Jemaa and Samia Abbou, current members of the Democratic party, but still belonging to the CPR block voted against the government Jomaa.

Wafa: Against

"Our block (Wafa) vote against your government," said Badi Azed during his speech to the Assembly before moving to vote. Block Wafa, led by Abderraouf Ayadi, records still defection, a vote, that of Abdessattar Dhifi new recruit of the block.

Independent: every man for himself

Among the self-elected, no common strategy and not instructions parties, but the trend is favorable. 33 voted for the government of Mehdi Jomaa, 9 against and 8 abstained.

Mehdi Jomaa said he was ready to replace ministers criticized by MPs. "I chose my team based on three clear criteria: competence independence and integrity," said he recalled the middle of the session. "I will, after obtaining the confidence of the members, to ascertain the degree of compliance with the criteria," he has said. He ended up getting the confidence vote with a large majority. He will review his team?The coming days will tell.
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The new Tunisian constitution
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Ennahdha chief, almost lynched by a mob
 
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