Why is India allowing Hasina to swim in Chinese water?

[Tehari_Haleem]

I have seen maps/charts to that effect but can't confirm.

Page 2 of this thread posted by SajjLad

 

[Bilal9]

Page 2 of this thread posted by SajjLad

Thanks! Yes that's the map I was talking about.

 

[Al-zakir]

Nah Jamat and BNP are vote bank friends but they are different group. Jamat has no influence on BNP. and BNP won't share power with Jamat if they ever comes to power. As I said Jamat is nobody, only notorious for 1971 since then they are not so effective except their organized student wing which is limited inside Institutions .

Plus BNP is a secular party, most of its leaders are less religious than Awamileague. Mostly consisting of Hard drinker businessman. BNP-BJP is a wrong analogy. I personally found the Hasina workers more mosque going than BNP wallas , they come from the rudimentary level.

Hasina workers go to Masjid to spy on BNP people. Awami and Masjid doesn't go together. Sorry to say but this is the truth.

BNP people stay away from Masjid now a days because of hooliya on their head.

 

[SajjLad]

Both sides of that argument are ridiculous, what the hell LOL. To the Bangladeshi posters, obviously I understand your winding up our Indian friend but let's clarify we do realize Indians are humans . And to our Indian friend who is obsessed with illegal Bangladeshis underneath his bed, there's very little biological difference between the average West Bengali and East Bengali, the only real outliers are the Bengali Brahmins and the Muslim Zamindari class, yet both of those groups are still very much native to the subcontinent. Either way none of that has to do with Sheikh Hasina or our foreign policy.

 

[Nilgiri]

I'm sure if anyone bothers to actually investigate BD more thoroughly rather than extrapolate northern India to it, they would find some very different and disturbing figures:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-09/doctors-baffled-by-curious-case-of-old-man-boy/7711468

Doctors said his genetic condition may also be the result of inbreeding, with marriage among relatives including first cousins common in Bangladesh's rural areas.

Good looking kid compared to the average BD person though....

Look at the disturbing statistics here at the end, especially table 1 to get an idea of real prevalence of cousin + relative marriage in BD:

http://shareenjoshi.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/MarriageVolumeFinalVersion_Joshi_Iyer_Do1.pdf

The problem is spreading wherever they go too:

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.co...ges-between-first-cousins-rampant-in-britain/

It is also common in some Middle Eastern and East African communities in the country, and in the UK’s Bangladeshi community, nearly a quarter of people marry their first cousins.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...ities-due-to-cousin-marriages-every-year.html

Research shows the number of cousin marriages has risen dramatically in the UK over the last three decades, mainly between British Pakistanis, but also between first cousins in the British Bangladeshi community in which nearly a quarter of people marry their first cousins, and in some Middle Eastern and East African communities.

 

[SajjLad]

It is also common in some Middle Eastern and East African communities in the country, and in the UK’s Bangladeshi community, nearly a quarter of people marry their first cousins.


Research shows the number of cousin marriages has risen dramatically in the UK over the last three decades, mainly between British Pakistanis, but also between first cousins in the British Bangladeshi community in which nearly a quarter of people marry their first cousins, and in some Middle Eastern and East African communities.

I wouldn't bring the U.K. Bangladeshi community into the discussion, I don't want it to turn into a regional thing but 95% of the Bangladeshis here are Sylheti, who tend to be significantly more religiously conservative than people from other parts of the country, explaining their above average tendency for cousin marriage.

I would turn up a few links of what cousin-marriage has done in India, but I'm apparently not at the post level where I can include links in my posts. Wasn't there a boy recently who was born with a monkey tail? And who the Rishis in their everlasting wisdom declared an incarnation of Hanuman? I'm sure his genetic history wasn't too heterogenous.

Do you have any explanation on why your half of the country tends to find blood relatives more easy on the eyes or not?

 

[Nilgiri]

I wouldn't bring the U.K. Bangladeshi community into the discussion, I don't want it to turn into a regional thing but 95% of the Bangladeshis here are Sylheti, who tend to be significantly more religiously conservative than people from other parts of the country, explaining their above average tendency for cousin marriage.

I would turn up a few links of what cousin-marriage has done in India, but I'm apparently not at the post level where I can include links in my posts. Wasn't there a boy recently who was born with a monkey tail? And who the Rishis in their everlasting wisdom declared an incarnation of Hanuman? I'm sure his genetic history wasn't too heterogenous.

Do you have any explanation on why your half of the country tends to find blood relatives more easy on the eyes or not?

Uh huh, there is a special marker on the previous maps for Sylhet? A splotch of scum and villainy in the midst of totally progressive BD?

Whenever its something you dont like being exposed about BD people.....THEY ARE SYLHETI.

Did you even care to look at the study (top link). Look at the data at the end. It was taken from just Sylhet?

http://shareenjoshi.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/MarriageVolumeFinalVersion_Joshi_Iyer_Do1.pdf

It knocks any supposed prevalence rate in South India out of the water. It is truly shocking how high it is. (around 30 - 50%...exact% depends on population pyramid... of sampled rural marriages in BD are with cousins/relatives - given BD is a highly rural country, the overall figure would not be too different.). This figure improves to 25% when BD people flee to the UK....but its still so darn high.

Thus lack of research/presentation on Bangladesh on almost any socio-economic issue does not mean extrapolation of (largely Hindu) North India to it should apply and that the situation is "A-OK". When there is more detailed data on such issues, a clear pattern emerges of BD society's ineptitude:

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.ADO.TFRT?locations=BD-IN

Nor does the claim its "only Sylhet/sylhetis" hold any water as the initial study shows.

Obv BD govt is scared to do/fund a full scale study/analysis on the issue....given it would unleash interest into a myriad of other things too:

http://www.unz.com/jthompson/intelligence-of-5-year-olds-in-uk/

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10903-009-9233-z

http://www.poverty.org.uk/06/index.shtml

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...unity-poorer-blacks-latinos-article-1.1075313

Best to hide in your ignorance and pretend nothing is happening.

Its a vicious cycle denial -----> perpetuate social problems -----> more denial etc.

BBS and BAL shelter you from some awful realities...you (foreign "elite" <---a relative word) are their hail mary attempt in keeping you lot believing their "progress" so you need not wake up to the reality and focus on fixing it which will upset the scam and unquestioned power/corruption structure they got going and are benefiting immensely from. Enjoy!

But don't expect to not be questioned on it by the cold hard facts that do get through the BBS/BAL filter about BD.

@Roybot @Aung Zaya

 

[帅的一匹]

What a weird and naive question!

 

[bluesky]

INDIAN civilisation is free from ills like inbreeding unlike Bangladesh where generations of cousin marriages has caused permanent damage.

You are wrong on this account. Cousin marriages are not against the law, but we do not see any such marriages in BD. At least, I have not seen one. It is prevalent in a country in your west. By the way, can you entertain us by divulging which community accepts a horrible marriage between a man and his niece born to his sister. Do not you really think, this kind of marriage creates a weird kind of DNA among the people of that community?

 

[Nilgiri]

You are wrong on this account. Cousin marriages are not against the law, but we do not see any such marriages in BD. At least, I have not seen one. It is prevalent in a country in your west. By the way, can you entertain us by divulging which community accepts a horrible marriage between a man and his niece born to his sister. Do not you really think, this kind of marriage creates a weird kind of DNA among the people of that community?

Enlighten yourself again:

http://shareenjoshi.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/MarriageVolumeFinalVersion_Joshi_Iyer_Do1.pdf

In fact read the entirety of this post for a reality check:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/why-...m-in-chinese-water.481638/page-4#post-9269290

 

[Gandh brandi]

Uh huh, there is a special marker on the previous maps for Sylhet? A splotch of scum and villainy in the midst of totally progressive BD?

Whenever its something you dont like being exposed about BD people.....THEY ARE SYLHETI.

Did you even care to look at the study (top link). Look at the data at the end. It was taken from just Sylhet?

http://shareenjoshi.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/MarriageVolumeFinalVersion_Joshi_Iyer_Do1.pdf

It knocks any supposed prevalence rate in South India out of the water. It is truly shocking how high it is. (around 30 - 50%...exact% depends on population pyramid... of sampled rural marriages in BD are with cousins/relatives - given BD is a highly rural country, the overall figure would not be too different.). This figure improves to 25% when BD people flee to the UK....but its still so darn high.

Thus lack of research/presentation on Bangladesh on almost any socio-economic issue does not mean extrapolation of (largely Hindu) North India to it should apply and that the situation is "A-OK". When there is more detailed data on such issues, a clear pattern emerges of BD society's ineptitude:

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.ADO.TFRT?locations=BD-IN

Nor does the claim its "only Sylhet/sylhetis" hold any water as the initial study shows.

Obv BD govt is scared to do/fund a full scale study/analysis on the issue....given it would unleash interest into a myriad of other things too:

http://www.unz.com/jthompson/intelligence-of-5-year-olds-in-uk/

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10903-009-9233-z

http://www.poverty.org.uk/06/index.shtml

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...unity-poorer-blacks-latinos-article-1.1075313

Best to hide in your ignorance and pretend nothing is happening.

Its a vicious cycle denial -----> perpetuate social problems -----> more denial etc.

BBS and BAL shelter you from some awful realities...you (foreign "elite" <---a relative word) are their hail mary attempt in keeping you lot believing their "progress" so you need not wake up to the reality and focus on fixing it which will upset the scam and unquestioned power/corruption structure they got going and are benefiting immensely from. Enjoy!

But don't expect to not be questioned on it by the cold hard facts that do get through the BBS/BAL filter about BD.

@Roybot @Aung Zaya

Ughh... I can't believe I wasted 30 minutes deciphering that pdf. Where does it say 50% incest marriage in BD? I see 10% cousin marriage, 8% non-cousin relative marriage. Please quote your info please. Whereas in the same link the author says in India incest marriage is from 6% to 36%.

And in here (http://dhsprogram.com/pubs/pdf/FRIND1/04Chapter04.pdf) it also says Incest marriage in India is also as low as 3.4% (Rajasthan) to as high as 47% (Tamil Nadu).

 

[Nilgiri]

Ughh... I can't believe I wasted 30 minutes deciphering that pdf. Where does it say 50% incest marriage in BD? I see 10% cousin marriage, 8% non-cousin relative marriage. Please quote your info please. Whereas in the same link the author says in India incest marriage is from 6% to 36%.

And in here (http://dhsprogram.com/pubs/pdf/FRIND1/04Chapter04.pdf) it also says Incest marriage in India is also as low as 3.4% (Rajasthan) to as high as 47% (Tamil Nadu).

I see 10% cousin marriage, 8% non-cousin relative marriage.

That's of total male/female population.....not of married people.

It's a raw basic mean profile of pure segregation by male/female. Married (+married at some point) adults would be only a portion of that. You can confirm by looking at the rest of the data in that table.

Hence why I said it would depend on the population pyramid for rural BD.

Overal population pyramid suggests married/former married number of people in BD would be around 60% at most (assuming 100% adults get married):

http://www.indexmundi.com/bangladesh/age_structure.html

Let's assume it holds for rural BD. That means 0.18/0.6 = 30% blood-relation rate for rural BD. If the local population distribution is more skewed towards children, the ratio would be higher, hence why I said from 30 - 50% depending on the population pyramid.

Fits well with the 25% relation-based marriage taking place among Bangladeshis in the UK.

It has been and continues to be a problem in TN and south for sure given lack of awareness on the issue but it is improving over time:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-DNA-keep-them-apart/articleshow/43262918.cms

The downslide is in plain view when the authors' research is compared with that of a study by A H Bittles, arguably the world's foremost expert on consanguinity. In a paper they presented in 2002, based on the 1992 results of the Family Health Survey, Krishnamoorthy and Audinarayana noted that 47% of marriage in Tamil Nadu were consanguineous. Bittles, in 2009, found its prevalence to be between 30% and 39%.

Its something that cannot reduce to 0 overnight (given marriages are somewhat long term phenomenon)....so a decrease like that shows people are getting the message and society is responding.

But this topic is not even really being explored in BD (as with everything thats uncomfortable that get the BBS/BAL treatment) so we have no real idea of the clear levels and how they are changing with time.....and your members are simply assuming the North Indian prevalence automatically applies to BD.....when the instances of what we see among Pakistani, BD and some Indian muslim people in the UK suggest very high prevalence of cousin/relation marriage back in their home societies.

I mean nowhere near 25% of Tamil people based in UK for example (or any foreign country) marry their cousins. Awareness transfer rate with education is good among Indians I find (hence they are doing economically and socially well in well educated environments generally) I doubt its even double digit to be honest, if you have any data on that let's see that.

But how does a 25% cousin marriage rate among BD people in the UK mean the situation is somehow a lot better in BD (given there is much lower education, awareness, social development etc)? Simply saying "they're mostly sylheti and sylhetis are the culprits" is a very BS thing to say. Not buying it....I have heard too much of the bad things about BD people being blamed on sylhetis just because they happen to be the ones that have emigrated more than the rest of BD in visible parts of the world.

 

[Bilal9]

Historically inbreeded societies are considered no less than animals and socially outcast.

Why should Bangladesh be given any benefit?

The word is not 'inbreeded' - it's 'inbred'. I'm wondering about your education level now - no offense.

Why is India allowing Hasina to swim in Chinese water?

Not Even Hasina Can Digest the Thought of Swimming in Indian Waters

How dare you post demeaning pictures of the 'Supa-pawa' India like this??

 

[Gandh brandi]

That's of total male/female population.....not of married people.

It's a raw basic mean profile of pure segregation by male/female. Married (+married at some point) adults would be only a portion of that. You can confirm by looking at the rest of the data in that table.

Hence why I said it would depend on the population pyramid for rural BD.

Overal population pyramid suggests married/former married number of people in BD would be around 60% at most (assuming 100% adults get married):

http://www.indexmundi.com/bangladesh/age_structure.html

Let's assume it holds for rural BD. That means 0.18/0.6 = 30% blood-relation rate for rural BD. If the local population distribution is more skewed towards children, the ratio would be higher, hence why I said from 30 - 50% depending on the population pyramid.

Fits well with the 25% relation-based marriage taking place among Bangladeshis in the UK.

It has been and continues to be a problem in TN and south for sure given lack of awareness on the issue but it is improving over time:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-DNA-keep-them-apart/articleshow/43262918.cms

The downslide is in plain view when the authors' research is compared with that of a study by A H Bittles, arguably the world's foremost expert on consanguinity. In a paper they presented in 2002, based on the 1992 results of the Family Health Survey, Krishnamoorthy and Audinarayana noted that 47% of marriage in Tamil Nadu were consanguineous. Bittles, in 2009, found its prevalence to be between 30% and 39%.

Its something that cannot reduce to 0 overnight (given marriages are somewhat long term phenomenon)....so a decrease like that shows people are getting the message and society is responding.

But this topic is not even really being explored in BD (as with everything thats uncomfortable that get the BBS/BAL treatment) so we have no real idea of the clear levels and how they are changing with time.....and your members are simply assuming the North Indian prevalence automatically applies to BD.....when the instances of what we see among Pakistani, BD and some Indian muslim people in the UK suggest very high prevalence of cousin/relation marriage back in their home societies.

I mean nowhere near 25% of Tamil people based in UK for example (or any foreign country) marry their cousins. Awareness transfer rate with education is good among Indians I find (hence they are doing economically and socially well in well educated environments generally) I doubt its even double digit to be honest, if you have any data on that let's see that.

But how does a 25% cousin marriage rate among BD people in the UK mean the situation is somehow a lot better in BD (given there is much lower education, awareness, social development etc)? Simply saying "they're mostly sylheti and sylhetis are the culprits" is a very BS thing to say. Not buying it....I have heard too much of the bad things about BD people being blamed on sylhetis just because they happen to be the ones that have emigrated more than the rest of BD in visible parts of the world.

Except the author explicitly states that, "For the purpose of understanding the incidence of consanguineous marriage in the MHSS data, we rely
on the section of the survey that asked men and women retrospective information about their marriage
histories. The complete sample includes 5083 married men, and 6068 married women at the time of the
survey. Information on first marriages was considered. For the purpose of our empirical tests however, we restrict our attention to a sub-sample of 4087 married women and 3357 married men who provided
complete information on age and education, marriage (including age at marriage, relationships to their
spouses, and payments of dowry), parental characteristics, parental assets, inheritances and inherited
assets, numbers of brothers and sisters (as well as their ages)." So all participants were married individuals. And also from the same document – "Estimates range
from 30–50% in Middle Eastern countries, 20‐‐40% in North Africa, and 10—20% in South Asia (Kapadia
1958: 117‐137; Naderi 1979; Maian and Mushtaq 1994; Bittles 1998; Bittles, 2001; Bittles 2008). There is
also significant variation within countries. In India for example, the National Family Health Survey 1992‐
93 (IIPS and ORC Macro International 1995) reveals that 16% of marriages are consanguineous
marriages, but that this varies from 6% in the north to 36% in the south (Banerjee and Roy 2002: 22).
Some new research also suggests that the practice is growing in popularity in Western countries, particularly in migrant communities (Bittles, 2001)." So it's not unthinkable for incestuous marriage to be so high in Britain.

Seriously I am disappointed @Nilgiri. Even you are susceptible to spread of misinformation.

How can we ever trust you again? @Mohammed Khaled @TopCat @Bilal9 @Khan sahed @bd_4_ever @Species @shourov323 @Doyalbaba @bluesky

 

[Nilgiri]

Except the author explicitly states that, "For the purpose of understanding the incidence of consanguineous marriage in the MHSS data, we rely
on the section of the survey that asked men and women retrospective information about their marriage
histories. The complete sample includes 5083 married men, and 6068 married women at the time of the
survey. Information on first marriages was considered. For the purpose of our empirical tests however, we restrict our attention to a sub-sample of 4087 married women and 3357 married men who provided
complete information on age and education, marriage (including age at marriage, relationships to their
spouses, and payments of dowry), parental characteristics, parental assets, inheritances and inherited
assets, numbers of brothers and sisters (as well as their ages)." So all participants were married individuals. And also from the same document – "Estimates range
from 30–50% in Middle Eastern countries, 20‐‐40% in North Africa, and 10—20% in South Asia (Kapadia
1958: 117‐137; Naderi 1979; Maian and Mushtaq 1994; Bittles 1998; Bittles, 2001; Bittles 2008). There is
also significant variation within countries. In India for example, the National Family Health Survey 1992‐
93 (IIPS and ORC Macro International 1995) reveals that 16% of marriages are consanguineous
marriages, but that this varies from 6% in the north to 36% in the south (Banerjee and Roy 2002: 22).
Some new research also suggests that the practice is growing in popularity in Western countries, particularly in migrant communities (Bittles, 2001)." So it's not unthinkable for incestuous marriage to be so high in Britain.

Seriously I am disappointed @Nilgiri. Even you are susceptible to spread of misinformation.

How can we ever trust you again? @Mohammed Khaled @TopCat @Bilal9 @Khan sahed @bd_4_ever @Species @shourov323 @Doyalbaba @bluesky

Fair enough! I did not read that part about the survey parameters (I actually assumed the survey was more broad than just one village and took census as the denominator). I should have read through the text more, rather than skipped to the tables.

Anyways applying 18% figure to all of BD based on one village is a stretch. Further complete data is required. It could be higher or lower...who really knows. This is literally the only real survey done on the issue for BD. Applying it to the whole country when one BD person has already said Sylhetis are known for higher prevalence...who knows where else it exists really in greater or lesser amounts...and what the sum total is etc.

The impression one gets from the high prevalence in the UK (25%) is it would be higher.

I mean why would better awareness, education and affluence (in the UK) lead to a persistently high rate of cousin marriage?

It does not happen among South Indians in UK, US, Canada etc...for sure (unless you have data that proves against it). It is one thing when we are talking about the old customs and reasons back home esp in rural setting....its different when you are made more aware of the issue and the evidence of why its bad.

Basically more facts and data needed on the issue for BD. Its very limited at best as it stands.

How can you trust me? I admit it when I am wrong about something. Also I am not here to earn "trust". This is a completely different subject (from OP title) that I don't even want to look back and see how it all started tbh.