Why does Muslim world get beaten up by the west?

[Pakistanisage]

Because we DON'T HAVE UNITY.....

 

[Jaanbaz]

atracts the greedy

Muslims leaders and the elite are more greedy then the invading nations. If they had used the resources to develop the society instead of building palaces then there wouldn't have been so many brainwashed footsoldiers of ISIS, Al Qaida and Talaiban etc.

 

[flamer84]

Muslims leaders and the elite are more greedy then the invading nations. If they had used the resources to develop the society instead of building palaces then there wouldn't have been so many brainwashed footsoldiers of ISIS, Al Qaida and Talaiban etc.

You're right,i should have phrased it "ONE" of the problems.Truth be told,they are so many that i would need a whole day.

 

[Jaanbaz]

You're right,i should have phrased it "ONE" of the problems.Truth be told,they are so many that i would need a whole day.

Yeah there are many problems. For example in Pakistan. We have few families that has been ruling Pakistan. These families are everywhere, they are religious clerics, Generals, Judges and politicians. These same elite groups deliberately use religion whenever they need to fool the masses.

Poor Pakistanis will never come out and bring revolution for their rights but they are ready to kill fellow Pakistanis who belong to smaller Sects. The situation of Muslim world is the same as Medieval Europe. One day I hope Muslims rise up against the gangs of greedy and deranged clerics, dictators, fake Sultans and Sheikhs.

 

[bdslph]

simple answer WE ARE NOTHING WITHOUT WEST
our busniess money everyhting is in west

 

[FaujHistorian]

Because we DON'T HAVE UNITY.....

Or perhaps we are trying to unite on a cause that is imaginary.

 

[Jf Thunder]

cuz we are beating the shit out of each other, but the west are united LOL

 

[rockstar08]

every dog has it day .. nuff said

 

[Zabaniyah]

This is a world of cruelty.

That's what China learned during our "Century of Humiliation", in which more Chinese people died than the rest of the world combined.

We were weak, and therefore we were punished. The world only respects power.

Knowledge is power.

The reason for the Western World being so powerful is due to the knowledge they gathered and compiled over the centuries to shape the modern world.

Even now, we third world countries look to the West to come up with technological concepts. We cannot come with anything ground breaking.

America prevents China's participation in many international space projects, for example the International space station.

That's why we had to build our own space station.

Self-reliance is always the best. Especially in regards to space exploration.

The reason for Muslim nations being so weak is due to their over-dependence on the West. Be it science, technology and even security. Almost all of Qatar's security is managed by the US.

simple answer WE ARE NOTHING WITHOUT WEST
our busniess money everyhting is in west

Very cross-border transaction involving American Dollars must pass through New York. Nuff said

 

[gambit]

Knowledge is power.

The reason for the Western World being so powerful is due to the knowledge they gathered and compiled over the centuries to shape the modern world.

Even now, we third world countries look to the West to come up with technological concepts. We cannot come with anything ground breaking.



Self-reliance is always the best. Especially in regards to space exploration.

The reason for Muslim nations being so weak is due to their over-dependence on the West. Be it science, technology and even security. Almost all of Qatar's security is managed by the US.

The main driver for the rise of the West, which includes the Americas, when it comes to science is that science have a relatively free stand in relation to established beliefs.

Science is subversive in nature and those who dabbled in it are compelled, either by their own personal natures or by institutions in science or both, to be challengers to the current norms. The high free reins here does not mean religions does not resist science. What happened to Galileo -- house arrest until his death -- is a well known example of that resistance.

But take China, for example, which had a vibrant astronomy program. The problem was that astronomy was subservient to astrology, as in divination, in other words, astronomy was regularly used to either confirm or sought confirmation of the viability of celestial divination methods as a way to be in harmonization with nature.

Similar institutional roadblocks existed under Islamic powers. Sultan Selim banned the printing press -- death penalty -- and the result was that this major Islamic power that centered in Istanbul did not have the printing press until 1726, and even then only a selected few were allowed to print selected titles. In contrast, by the mid 1500s, there were over 1700 printing houses spread over 300 European cities and city-states. Under Istanbul, it was decreed that the Quran and the hadiths contained all the necessary knowledge, scientific, legal, and moral, for life. That attitude persists to this day where there are Islamic religious leaders regularly explained how the Quran had 'predicted' one scientific discovery and/or invention after another. They practically scrambled over each other doing so in order to establish their credentials among young Muslims. Like China in this regard, science was used, but unlike China, still being used by the large of the Muslims, to confirm something else.

Where there is a several centuries lead time in science, it is going to be extremely difficult, borderline impossible to catch up, let alone surpass. My opinion is that the Asian powers will likely develop similar lead time over the Islamic powers precisely because they do not have a coherent and unified religious leadership to exert the needed strong moral influence over scientists and legal threat over science. That lead time, if the starting point is to be at the rise of Imperial Japan that began at end of WW I, is now one hundred yrs for the Asians. The Japanese started it, now the Chinese are doing the same.

Like it or not, until and unless there is as drastic a reformation in Islam the way there was in Christendom, the Muslims will continue to rely on outsiders for scientific and technological knowledge.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

So how are our motherlands? Enjoying Gaza massacre?

 

[Chak Bamu]

I am ambivalent about this thread.

I think that this thread is a result of frustration on part of OP. All one has to do is to look at pictures that just show normal diplomatic exchanges being presented as 'kinks' and 'Motherlands' without any idea on part of OP or anyone else as to what that means.

I think OP is trying to project a specific context onto a very general topic, and certainly not doing a half-decent job of it.

If anyone thinks that we need 'unity' they are not quite right, because there is no leading / core state in Islamic world. There are too many sects and all claiming exclusive monopoly on 'right' or 'correct' beliefs with a threat to all others.

If anyone thinks that we need 'science / technology' they too are not quite right. Science and Technology is dependent upon government policies and budget allocation, not a particular mind-set. Some people are naturally drawn to science and technology. The technological level depends upon facilitation of such people in their endeavors in the economic context. Long drawn theories about how Muslims perceive Science and technology are really meaningless, because these are based on faulty premises to begin with.

If anyone thinks that jailing / killing / hanging current leaders would help the Islamic world, they are actually preaching anarchy which is never a solution, but in fact a problem. Just a look at Somalia, Iraq, and Syria shows this to be true.

The solution is to adopt modern practices of institution-building, transparency in decision-making, and spending to improve HDI. We can not rise without simultaneously assuaging deep-buried fears of Europe and Far East. Nobody will allow Muslims to rise as a power as they are perceived now. We have to show a commitment to accommodation, tolerance, and institutional approach, in a transparent manner. Unless that happens, there is no way Muslims would be allowed to rise as a power.

One also needs to note that religion alone can not provide a workable solution. It can provide a moral context. It can provide inspiration. It can provide a positive push because of being an important part of identity. But beyond such generalities religion by itself can not provide a workable solution. For that one has to use wisdom, learning, and experience that goes beyond a strictly religious context. Religion can provide some rationale regarding ethnicity, language, culture, organization, governance, but not a viable and workable program.

Those who ask 'Why does Muslim World get beaten up by the West' need to realize that this is a wrong question to ask. 'Muslim World' is such a loose term, and applied with such imprecision that one can not hope for an answer. One should ask as to how Muslim countries are set up to function politically, economically, militarily, etc... What is their approach to Constitutionalism, representative government, and institutional set up.

The question thus becomes "Which countries are likely to organize and govern themselves better and accomplish HDI goals, economic growth, prevalence of Technology, and spending on Science?"

History of Muslim world shows that at any time there always was at least one (and sometimes more) core state(s) that led 'Muslim World' and served as models and inspiration for others.

In this context, therefore, the way forward is quite clear. We do not need AQ, ISIS, TTP, etc... We need dedication to democracy (in Muslim context), responsible governance, and transparency. All the ingredients of stability which would eventually ensure gradual rise of Muslim world without being a threat to others around us.

 

[Contrarian]

Some gaps in your post.

Nobody will allow Muslims to rise as a power as they are perceived now. We have to show a commitment to accommodation, tolerance, and institutional approach, in a transparent manner. Unless that happens, there is no way Muslims would be allowed to rise as a power.

Nobody allows or disallows the other to rise as a power. Those in power always like status quo and try their level best to deny it to others. Those without power always have to rise using their own means.
Nobody allowed China to rise as a power. Nobody allowed Soviet Union to rise as a power. They did it using their own strengths.
The insinuation about how Muslims are perceived' will result on whether Muslims are 'allowed to rise' as a power or not are fundamentally flawed.

We need dedication to democracy (in Muslim context),

What is the Muslim context of democracy? If you give Universal Adult Franchise with everyone a choice to run for any seat, then it becomes Western Democracy.

 

[gambit]

If anyone thinks that we need 'science / technology' they too are not quite right. Science and Technology is dependent upon government policies and budget allocation, not a particular mind-set. Some people are naturally drawn to science and technology. The technological level depends upon facilitation of such people in their endeavors in the economic context. Long drawn theories about how Muslims perceive Science and technology are really meaningless, because these are based on faulty premises to begin with.

Human nature incorporated insatiable curiosity, not just on the physical world but on human nature itself.

The question is highly loaded with the supposed conflict between culture vs nature controversy when it should be understood that culture and biology (nature) are in a constant push-pull relationship. Science is a component of that relationship. Regardless of how some people's curiosity pulls them towards the 'hard' sciences and some towards the 'soft' versions, challenges to the current norms initiates the 'pull' of that relationship. Culture then should facilitate the 'push'. If a culture is cognizant of this relationship, however consciously or unconsciously, then we will have a scientifically and politically dynamic society. Organizations like DARPA, one that have a very narrow focus such as defense, cannot exist outside of this relationship. Greater scopes but similarly narrow minded industries such as semiconductor or medicine are no different. All of them cannot exist and prosper, in terms of intellectual contributions and financial profits, without the foundation of intellectual freedom that science needs.

If theories explains facts, then we already have an excellent theory of why some societies and cultures are more intellectually and scientifically vibrant than others based upon historical facts.

 

[Brutas]

Muslim world, does it exist ? Even if it exists, seems like these nations are more interested in killing each other with outside help than helping each other against aggression. So little tolerance of each other, amazing !