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Why Does India Lag So Far Behind China?

RiazHaq

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Indian mainstream media headlines suggest that Pakistan's current troubles are becoming a cause for celebration and smugness across the border. Hindu Nationalists, in particular, are singing the praises of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and some Pakistani analysts have joined this chorus. This display of triumphalism and effusive praise of India beg the following questions: Why are Indians so obsessed with Pakistan? Why do Indians choose to compare themselves with much smaller Pakistan rather than to their peer China? Why does India lag so far behind China when the two countries are equal in terms of population and number of consumers, the main draw for investors worldwide? Obviously, comparison with China does not reflect well on Hindu Nationalists because it deflates their bubble.



China was poorer than India until 1990 in terms of per capita income. In 2001, both nations were included in Goldman Sachs' BRICs group of 4 nations seen as most favored destinations for foreign direct investment. Since the end of the Cold War in 1990, the western nations, including the United States and western Europe, have supported India as a counterweight to China. But a comparison of the relative size of their economies reveals that China had a nominal GDP of US$17.7 trillion in 2021, while India’s was US$3.2 trillion. India invests only 30% of its GDP, compared with 50% for China; and 14% of India's economy comes from manufacturing, as opposed to 27% of China, according to the World Bank.


A recent SCMP opinion piece by Sameed Basha titled "Is India ready to take China’s place in the global economy? That’s just wishful thinking" has summed it up well:

"Comparing China to India is like comparing apples with oranges, with the only similarity being their billion-plus populations.......China is transforming itself into a technologically driven economy in order to exceed the potential of the US. In contrast, India is attempting to position itself as a market-driven economy utilizing its large population as a manufacturing base to compete with China........In its 2022 Investment Climate Statement on India, the US State Department called the country “a challenging place to do business” and highlighted its protectionist measures, increased tariffs and an inability to adjust from “Indian standards” to international standards".
With growing Washington-Beijing tensions, the United States is trying to decouple its economy from China's. The Wall Street Journal has reported that the Biden administration is turning to India for help as the US works to shift critical technology supply chains away from China and other countries that it says use that technology to destabilize global security.
The US Commerce Department is actively promoting India Inc to become an alternative to China in the West's global supply chain. US Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo recently told Jim Cramer on CNBC’s “Mad Money” that she will visit India in March with a handful of U.S. CEOs to discuss an alliance between the two nations on manufacturing semiconductor chips. “It’s a large population. (A) lot of workers, skilled workers, English speakers, a democratic country, rule of law,” she said.
India's unsettled land border with China will most likely continue to be a source of growing tension that could easily escalate into a broader, more intense war, as New Delhi is seen by Beijing as aligning itself with Washington.
In a recent Op Ed in Global Times, considered a mouthpiece of the Beijing government, Professor Guo Bingyun has warned New Delhi that India "will be the biggest victim" of the US proxy war against China. Below is a quote from it:
"Inducing some countries to become US' proxies has been Washington's tactic to maintain its world hegemony since the end of WWII. It does not care about the gains and losses of these proxies. The Russia-Ukraine conflict is a proxy war instigated by the US. The US ignores Ukraine's ultimate fate, but by doing so, the US can realize the expansion of NATO, further control the EU, erode the strategic advantages of Western European countries in climate politics and safeguard the interests of US energy groups. It is killing four birds with one stone......If another armed conflict between China and India over the border issue breaks out, the US and its allies will be the biggest beneficiaries, while India will be the biggest victim. Since the Cold War, proxies have always been the biggest victims in the end".
Related Links:
Haq's Musings
South Asia Investor Review
Do Indian Aircraft Carriers Pose a Threat to Pakistan's Security?
Can Washington Trust Modi as a Key Ally Against China?
Ukraine Resists Russia Alone: A Tale of West's Broken Promises
Ukraine's Lesson For Pakistan: Never Give Up Nuclear Weapons
AUKUS: An Anglo Alliance Against China?
Russia Sanction: India Profiting From Selling Russian Oil
Indian Diplomat on Pakistan's "Resilience", "Strategic CPEC"
Vast Majority of Indians Believe Nuclear War Against Pakistan is "Winnable"
Riaz Haq's Youtube Channel

PakAlumni Social Network


 

Indian mainstream media headlines suggest that Pakistan's current troubles are becoming a cause for celebration and smugness across the border. Hindu Nationalists, in particular, are singing the praises of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and some Pakistani analysts have joined this chorus. This display of triumphalism and effusive praise of India beg the following questions: Why are Indians so obsessed with Pakistan? Why do Indians choose to compare themselves with much smaller Pakistan rather than to their peer China? Why does India lag so far behind China when the two countries are equal in terms of population and number of consumers, the main draw for investors worldwide? Obviously, comparison with China does not reflect well on Hindu Nationalists because it deflates their bubble.




China was poorer than India until 1990 in terms of per capita income. In 2001, both nations were included in Goldman Sachs' BRICs group of 4 nations seen as most favored destinations for foreign direct investment. Since the end of the Cold War in 1990, the western nations, including the United States and western Europe, have supported India as a counterweight to China. But a comparison of the relative size of their economies reveals that China had a nominal GDP of US$17.7 trillion in 2021, while India’s was US$3.2 trillion. India invests only 30% of its GDP, compared with 50% for China; and 14% of India's economy comes from manufacturing, as opposed to 27% of China, according to the World Bank.



A recent SCMP opinion piece by Sameed Basha titled "Is India ready to take China’s place in the global economy? That’s just wishful thinking" has summed it up well:

"Comparing China to India is like comparing apples with oranges, with the only similarity being their billion-plus populations.......China is transforming itself into a technologically driven economy in order to exceed the potential of the US. In contrast, India is attempting to position itself as a market-driven economy utilizing its large population as a manufacturing base to compete with China........In its 2022 Investment Climate Statement on India, the US State Department called the country “a challenging place to do business” and highlighted its protectionist measures, increased tariffs and an inability to adjust from “Indian standards” to international standards".
With growing Washington-Beijing tensions, the United States is trying to decouple its economy from China's. The Wall Street Journal has reported that the Biden administration is turning to India for help as the US works to shift critical technology supply chains away from China and other countries that it says use that technology to destabilize global security.
The US Commerce Department is actively promoting India Inc to become an alternative to China in the West's global supply chain. US Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo recently told Jim Cramer on CNBC’s “Mad Money” that she will visit India in March with a handful of U.S. CEOs to discuss an alliance between the two nations on manufacturing semiconductor chips. “It’s a large population. (A) lot of workers, skilled workers, English speakers, a democratic country, rule of law,” she said.
India's unsettled land border with China will most likely continue to be a source of growing tension that could easily escalate into a broader, more intense war, as New Delhi is seen by Beijing as aligning itself with Washington.
In a recent Op Ed in Global Times, considered a mouthpiece of the Beijing government, Professor Guo Bingyun has warned New Delhi that India "will be the biggest victim" of the US proxy war against China. Below is a quote from it:
"Inducing some countries to become US' proxies has been Washington's tactic to maintain its world hegemony since the end of WWII. It does not care about the gains and losses of these proxies. The Russia-Ukraine conflict is a proxy war instigated by the US. The US ignores Ukraine's ultimate fate, but by doing so, the US can realize the expansion of NATO, further control the EU, erode the strategic advantages of Western European countries in climate politics and safeguard the interests of US energy groups. It is killing four birds with one stone......If another armed conflict between China and India over the border issue breaks out, the US and its allies will be the biggest beneficiaries, while India will be the biggest victim. Since the Cold War, proxies have always been the biggest victims in the end".
Related Links:
Haq's Musings
South Asia Investor Review
Do Indian Aircraft Carriers Pose a Threat to Pakistan's Security?
Can Washington Trust Modi as a Key Ally Against China?
Ukraine Resists Russia Alone: A Tale of West's Broken Promises
Ukraine's Lesson For Pakistan: Never Give Up Nuclear Weapons
AUKUS: An Anglo Alliance Against China?
Russia Sanction: India Profiting From Selling Russian Oil
Indian Diplomat on Pakistan's "Resilience", "Strategic CPEC"
Vast Majority of Indians Believe Nuclear War Against Pakistan is "Winnable"
Riaz Haq's Youtube Channel

PakAlumni Social Network


Better to ask why Pakistan lag so far behind India???
In India case, we were a welfare state and to a large extent we still are. We have built up huge infrastructure to speed up growth and connected major industrial hubs. Next 15-20 years, we will see India in top 3 economies of the world. We have to double every 5 years to reach gdp of15 trillion dollars.
 
Better to ask why Pakistan lag so far behind India???
In India case, we were a welfare state and to a large extent we still are. We have built up huge infrastructure to speed up growth and connected major industrial hubs. Next 15-20 years, we will see India in top 3 economies of the world. We have to double every 5 years to reach gdp of15 trillion dollars.
Tableeghi!!!
 
Better to ask why Pakistan lag so far behind India???
In India case, we were a welfare state and to a large extent we still are. We have built up huge infrastructure to speed up growth and connected major industrial hubs. Next 15-20 years, we will see India in top 3 economies of the world. We have to double every 5 years to reach gdp of15 trillion dollars.

India, a welfare state? You must be kidding.

Over 75% of the world's poor deprived of basic living standards (nutrition, cooking fuel, sanitation and housing) live in India compared to 4.6% in Bangladesh and 4.1% in Pakistan, according to a recently released OPHI/UNDP report on multidimensional poverty. Here's what the report says: "More than 45.5 million poor people are deprived in only these four indicators (nutrition, cooking fuel, sanitation and housing). Of those people, 34.4 million live in India, 2.1 million in Bangladesh and 1.9 million in Pakistan—making this a predominantly South Asian profile".

 
China is building a technologically advanced economy to compete with the US.



Over 1.5 million patent applications were filed in China in 2021, the highest number in the world. By comparison, the patent filings in India were 61,573, according to the World Intellectual Property Organization. China spends 2.4% of its GDP on research and development compared to India's 0.66%, according to the World Bank.

 
India, a welfare state? You must be kidding.

Over 75% of the world's poor deprived of basic living standards (nutrition, cooking fuel, sanitation and housing) live in India compared to 4.6% in Bangladesh and 4.1% in Pakistan, according to a recently released OPHI/UNDP report on multidimensional poverty. Here's what the report says: "More than 45.5 million poor people are deprived in only these four indicators (nutrition, cooking fuel, sanitation and housing). Of those people, 34.4 million live in India, 2.1 million in Bangladesh and 1.9 million in Pakistan—making this a predominantly South Asian profile".

In absolute numbers, extreme poverty in India according to worldbank, is about 1%. According to your figures, it is 34 million for India, which is little more than 2%. Pakistan's stands at 1.9 million, is less than 1%, has done better than India in multi dimensional poverty, but if you look at overall poverty, it has increased to 36%. In case of India overall poverty has decreased to 12%.
 
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The princely states of India would have outpaced China. Human development along with the geographical economy took a great hit in 1947.
 
Why are Indians so obsessed with Pakistan?
Not entirely true. North-west Indians do, to some extent anyway, because of some shared cultural and linguistic similarities. Down south they don't care, in fact they barely care about north Indian politics. North Indians, similarly, are mostly clueless about the politics of the south.

Talking about people in general here, not those who study Indian politics either for their line of work or are just political junkies/nerds.

Why do Indians choose to compare themselves with much smaller Pakistan rather than to their peer China?
^refer above. To add, I'll say Pakistanis also like to gloat about them being "7 times smaller" (as if that means anything :lol: yet holding out militarily and keeping the enemy at bay (even though there has not been any military aggression for the longest time)

Why does India lag so far behind China when the two countries are equal in terms of population and number of consumers, the main draw for investors worldwide?
Simple, India is a democracy full of crooked politicians who rabble rouse constantly to remain in power.

The Chinese have, arguably, a better, more centralized system of governance in terms of a zero tolerance policy wrt dissent, public disorder etc. Separatism is choked with an iron hand, decapitated with the sickle, and the remains smashed to smithereens with the hammer. Hell, they'd even throw you in a gulag, and harvest your organs.. and sell them for a profit to foreigners in need at a good profit though that has been stopped for about a decade and a half now. They are very nationalist, now only Chinese can avail those benefits. :P

They may be a 'hybrid' economy and not communist in the old traditional way but they retain aspects of it to maintain control over the populace. To the extent possible, they try and maintain a very tight grip over news and information that their subjects/citizens may consume. One may argue India does the same but it is minuscule in scale compared to the CCP's way.

The Indian middle class numbers around 50 million tops. Those who at least have the financial dum to go out and buy the latest iPhone or Sony or Samsung whatever big TVs etc.

Those numbers may well pale once compared to China, but they are still significant, especially in the eyes of companies making that product.

As a small and maybe insignificant anecdote.. so, ordered food from somewhere the other night, did a mobile digital transfer to delivery guy once he got here.. he was rocking a super expensive latest high end phone :D


Riaz sb, I have followed your blog for a while. Could you do a write up on Pk middle/upper middle class too wrt to their consumption habbits and what % of the population falls in it. We would appreciate your stats, graphs, in-depth knowledge and experiential insight into it all.

Thanks much, Shukriya.
 
China started economic revolution long before Indian efforts. They got a lead which can’t be bridged even in many decades.

Another factor is that China is ruled by a dictator, who can implement even unpopular policies for long term gains. Once Chinese state decides on an economic activity there is no stopping. No popular movement can be launched to stop it.
While in India, so many big ticket infrastructure and greenfield projects are stalled due to litigation and resistance from the locals. That’s the part of the process in a functional democracy.

Chinese growth in the last few decades is indeed stellar and there is no requirement to get any heartburns because it is not a race where the winner will be given a medal.

It is in fact, a long race of wealth generation, which would benefit all the participants. India is on that path.
 
Not entirely true. North-west Indians do, to some extent anyway, because of some shared cultural and linguistic similarities. Down south they don't care, in fact they barely care about north Indian politics. North Indians, similarly, are mostly clueless about the politics of the south.

Talking about people in general here, not those who study Indian politics either for their line of work or are just political junkies/nerds.


^refer above. To add, I'll say Pakistanis also like to gloat about them being "7 times smaller" (as if that means anything :lol: yet holding out militarily and keeping the enemy at bay (even though there has not been any military aggression for the longest time)


Simple, India is a democracy full of crooked politicians who rabble rouse constantly to remain in power.

The Chinese have, arguably, a better, more centralized system of governance in terms of a zero tolerance policy wrt dissent, public disorder etc. Separatism is choked with an iron hand, decapitated with the sickle, and the remains smashed to smithereens with the hammer. Hell, they'd even throw you in a gulag, and harvest your organs.. and sell them for a profit to foreigners in need at a good profit though that has been stopped for about a decade and a half now. They are very nationalist, now only Chinese can avail those benefits. :P

They may be a 'hybrid' economy and not communist in the old traditional way but they retain aspects of it to maintain control over the populace. To the extent possible, they try and maintain a very tight grip over news and information that their subjects/citizens may consume. One may argue India does the same but it is minuscule in scale compared to the CCP's way.

The Indian middle class numbers around 50 million tops. Those who at least have the financial dum to go out and buy the latest iPhone or Sony or Samsung whatever big TVs etc.

Those numbers may well pale once compared to China, but they are still significant, especially in the eyes of companies making that product.

As a small and maybe insignificant anecdote.. so, ordered food from somewhere the other night, did a mobile digital transfer to delivery guy once he got here.. he was rocking a super expensive latest high end phone :D


Riaz sb, I have followed your blog for a while. Could you do a write up on Pk middle/upper middle class too wrt to their consumption habbits and what % of the population falls in it. We would appreciate your stats, graphs, in-depth knowledge and experiential insight into it all.

Thanks much, Shukriya.
I know you people are good at BS of what you say about anything esp China. Come up with all the excuses for your fools paradise slum state.


Caged for their blood​

In 2008, Hari Kamat, an impoverished artisan from the state of Bihar, was rescued along with 16 other people from a "blood farm" in the town of Gorakhpur, close to India's border with Nepal.
The victims, all poor migrants, were lured to a house on the pretext of being given jobs and were then convinced to sell their blood for the princely sum of $7 per unit.
"Initially, they did it willingly," says Neha Dixit, who covered the story for Tehelka magazine.
"But when I met Hari Kamat in the hospital recuperating, he said that after a while, they became too weak to resist and when they had the energy to try and escape, they were beaten and locked up."

Hari and the others were forced to give blood three times per week for a period of two and a half years. The Red Cross says donors should give blood only once every eight to 12 weeks.
They were never paid the amount they were promised, and received only a token sum.
"It was actually like a dairy," says Ms Dixit. "These people were caged, not given enough food and their blood was extracted 16 times a month."
Ms Dixit says the blood was then sold to local hospitals and blood banks for $18 a unit - 15 times the government rate. Some private blood banks were accused of being complicit, putting official stamps and barcodes on these bags of blood.
Donated blood bags at the Rotary Blood Bank










 
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China started economic revolution long before Indian efforts. They got a lead which can’t be bridged even in many decades.

Another factor is that China is ruled by a dictator, who can implement even unpopular policies for long term gains. Once Chinese state decides on an economic activity there is no stopping. No popular movement can be launched to stop it.
While in India, so many big ticket infrastructure and greenfield projects are stalled due to litigation and resistance from the locals. That’s the part of the process in a functional democracy.

Chinese growth in the last few decades is indeed stellar and there is no requirement to get any heartburns because it is not a race where the winner will be given a medal.

It is in fact, a long race of wealth generation, which would benefit all the participants. India is on that path.

THIS is china,






Its one Huge Jail.

Pretty sure NO BODY in India would want India to catch up to china.

I know you people are good at BS of what you say about anything esp China. Come up with all the excuses for your fools paradise slum state.

congratulations for living in the worlds largest jail.

 
Its one Huge Jail.

Pretty sure NO BODY in India would want India to catch up to china.
That’s why I only did an economic comparison and didn’t get into these aspects.

Economically, China is doing well and is commendable. This has come at a huge cost to citizen rights. It’s citizens are under an autocrat and dictator which has its own cost.
 
You fools can only dream of trade your shithole slums for the Chinese apartments.


Nice living:

dharavi-slum-mumbai-india.jpg


mezzanine_273.jpg



li-india-slums-census-04182.jpg
 
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