What will a secular pakistan look like?

[qamar1990]

Then you don't understand the social contract the Pakistani state has with its Pentalingual citizenry. Pakistan in effect operates as a secular state already as it has a market economy and a constitutional democracy. What Pakistan needs is not western secularism but to invent a solution, specifically tailored for our specific needs.

maybe we need a whole new system perhaps, who knows you got any ideas?
i remember you mentioning something s while back on some thread.

 

[Psycho Pakistani]

Then you don't understand the social contract the Pakistani state has with its Pentalingual citizenry. Pakistan in effect operates as a secular state already as it has a market economy and a constitutional democracy. What Pakistan needs is not western secularism but to invent a solution, specifically tailored for our specific needs.

Agree with it 100 % and I have spent 25 years of my life in punjab pakistan. Pakistan is unoffcially somewhat secular eventhough on paper it is "islamic republic" which is good thing to please every section of the society.

 

[Kompromat]

I am sorry to say but this is the biggest canard in Pakistan.

YOUR moral values are not dependent on the State enforcing the Sharia/your religious values.
An example:
- There are hundreds of millions of Hindus who are vegetarian despite the Law not forcing everyone in India being vegetarian.
Do you get the idea?
- There are hundreds of millions of Indians/Hindus/Muslims who are teetotalers without banning alcohol in the State.

You can retain your moral values, you do not need to do anything that you feel is prohibited in your religion without forcing this on everyone by making enforcing it on the State.

Consequently, making Pakistan secular DOES NOT remove the moral values of your religion.

Can this debate be left to Pakistanis please?

 

[qamar1990]

Doubt it, especially after integration of FATA with rest of Pakistan in coming decades. Secular Pakistan is not happening for many decades.

before we try to make it secular we should make sure we can control our borders at least.

 

[M. Sarmad]

but you are then left with the moral dilemma of abandoning the vision of our fathers

And what exactly was the vision of our fathers ????

 

[Pakistanisage]

Impossible.

The moral values of our society are based on religion and that is why it will be impossible to separate state from religion.

Thank you and that is just the Point.

Whose Religion ?

What about the Shias, Ahmadis, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, Parsis and other Minorities of Pakistan. Does our Government have NO OBLIGATION to those Pakistanis ???

So Pakistan was created to Propel the Faith of us Sunnis and to the peril of all other " Madhab" and Faith ???

The Job of the " GOVERNMENT " is to Provide Good " GOVERNANCE" and NOT to Promote a certain Faith.

It is this kind of muddled thinking and confusion that prevents the Government from doing their job.

The Government appears to be Paralyzed when an EXTREMIST SUNNI Group slaughters Hazara Shias or attacks an Ahmadiyya mosque or Christian Church and the Government watches helplessly and fails to take action against these Murderous Thugs like Sipah e Sahaba.

Pakistan has no other choice but to Legislate Secularism.

 

[Kompromat]

maybe we need a whole new system perhaps, who knows you got any ideas?
i remember you mentioning something s while back on some thread.

What Pakistan needs is 'separation of civil and religious aspects of the society'. What it means is to create a wall between the two structures tall enough to stand on the toes and cooperate but not the ability to jump to the other side.

I am confident that we can create a structure that works, without a revolution, without mayhem and without western secularism.

 

[qamar1990]

My suggestion for you is to start a thread about paksitan's handling of Afghanistan. Because your threads are success since you are a famous member here. I wanted to start it myself but I think I can pass on that idea to you.

So here is the point

Pakistan should not support only one "ethnicity" in afghanistan (which at the moment is pashtun in my view)
Why?
Because afghanistan is 60 % non-pasthun ethnicities and the most important ethnicity in the north is Tajik which paksitani establishment has made its enemy due to unnecessary support to afghan pashtuns, tajiks see it an ethnical issue.

Tajiks in afghansitan are much more saner, liberal and secular people (your current favorite ideology) than afghan pashtuns.

Afghan pashtuns hate pakistan and particularly punjabis more without any reason than tajik who have a reason that I mentioned before.

In other words we should not have any "favorite" race or ethnicity when dealing with afghanistan and should talk with everyone there irrespective of ethnicity who are like minded to us and they are in every ethnicity of afghanistan.

I think this could prove to be a good topic for a thread with maximum participation. What do you think about it ?

perhaps how about this " what should pakistan do with afghanistan in the coming years?"
and then make a few points and give a few options.
you open the thread but just do it in a few days so we can have a little discussion on this thread lol.
don't worry I'm not famous here I'm a just an average joe lol.

 

[Contrarian]

whats there to look at?
they are in the same situation as us if not worst.

No pal.
They are far better than both India and Pakistan in almost all the social indicators.
Their economy has not caught up, but they only got independent in 1971. Give them a decade or two, I dont doubt that they will cross Pakistan, possibly even India in (per capita) economic indicators.

They now have a very strong foundation to build on. They really have outshone both India and Pakistan in many many places and shown many innovative aspects. In some aspects, we(India) are learning from them.

 

[Progressive1]

Yes, It will be a precursor to taking land of Indus to its original glory; liberal hub of civilization, but this doesnt mean that using word secular will straight away solve problems we will have to do all the hard work.

 

[ShahidT]

And what exactly was the vision of our fathers ????

i don't want to turn this thread in that direction as these debates have been had here several times and always at loggerheads. lets just say it was not absolute separation of state and religion as some atheists here like to portray.

 

[qamar1990]

What Pakistan needs is 'separation of civil and religious aspects of the society'. What it means is to create a wall between the two structures tall enough to stand on the toes and cooperate but not the ability to jump to the other side.

I am confident that we can create a structure that works, without a revolution, without mayhem and without western secularism.

what is your position on the blasphemy laws?

 

[Contrarian]

Can this debate be left to Pakistanis please?

Okay. I respect that.
Though I feel you can benefit from outsider opinion as well on this issue - non troll, of course.

 

[ShahidT]

No pal.
They are far better than both India and Pakistan in almost all the social indicators.
Their economy has not caught up, but they only got independent in 1971. Give them a decade or two, I dont doubt that they will cross Pakistan, possibly even India in (per capita) economic indicators.

They now have a very strong foundation to build on. They really have outshone both India and Pakistan in many many places and shown many innovative aspects. In some aspects, we(India) are learning from them.

lol. you are talking about bangladesh here right?

 

[RAMPAGE]

Consequently, making Pakistan secular DOES NOT remove the moral values of your religion.

Evidently you didn't get the meaning behind my post.

What I meant was that Pakistanis are too much dependent and devoted to their religion to allow the separation of religion and state.