What Chinese Sub-Systems are needed for the JF-17 to match the F-16 Block 70?

[FuturePAF]

While Work on the Block 3 Air Frame is underway, on again off again discussions about sub-systems come in and out of focus. I wanted to start this thread to outline all of the sub-systems in the advanced 4th fighters currently on the market, and see if the JF-17 can potentially match them. Weight will obviously be a limiting factor and PAF may choose to pick simpler version of these systems.

One Sub-system is the advanced IFF on the Block 70 F-16. the PAF F-16 Block 52 also have it and China has recently showed it on its H-6K bomber. (Look under the nose of the Chinese plane) I hope we can list sub-systems in this thread and see if we can match each sub-system on fourth gen fighters.

http://www.defencenews.in/images_articles/1_img128818172900.jpg
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yMvDOllR...dtwohGhWx4ZGBzPYp4_NxQCKgBGAs/s1600/H-6KG.jpg

 

[luciferdd]

One 11 ton class jet-engine is needed to match up with F16 or J10C in the thrust-weight ratio.

 

[Kompromat]

One 11 ton class jet-engine is needed to match up with F16 or J10C in the thrust-weight ratio.

Won't fit.

 

[CriticalThought]

The trouble is, there is no detailed, technical, open source information available about sub-systems on B70 or about Chinese sub-systems in general. We have seen a few product brochures about KLJ7A but that's it. Similarly for B70 features. Someone who has actually operated the systems could provide more valuable insight.

 

[Beast]

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/jf-17-to-get-chinese-developed-aesa-radar-447147/

 

[CriticalThought]

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/jf-17-to-get-chinese-developed-aesa-radar-447147/

I mean, it would be nice to get a perspective from someone who has actual operational experience of both. There is always some difference between theory and practice.

 

[Beast]

I mean, it would be nice to get a perspective from someone who has actual operational experience of both. There is always some difference between theory and practice.

The Chinese radar is not theory but reality.

 

[CriticalThought]

The Chinese radar is not theory but reality.

I mean, cars are also a reality. But one could keep reading forever about cars without ever driving one. Such a person could never be similar to someone who has actually driven a car. That's what I mean.

 

[Bratva]

While Work on the Block 3 Air Frame is underway, on again off again discussions about sub-systems come in and out of focus. I wanted to start this thread to outline all of the sub-systems in the advanced 4th fighters currently on the market, and see if the JF-17 can potentially match them. Weight will obviously be a limiting factor and PAF may choose to pick simpler version of these systems.

One Sub-system is the advanced IFF on the Block 70 F-16. the PAF F-16 Block 52 also have it and China has recently showed it on its H-6K bomber. (Look under the nose of the Chinese plane) I hope we can list sub-systems in this thread and see if we can match each sub-system on fourth gen fighters.

http://www.defencenews.in/images_articles/1_img128818172900.jpg
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yMvDOllR...dtwohGhWx4ZGBzPYp4_NxQCKgBGAs/s1600/H-6KG.jpg

Electronic Warfare systems. Either in Pod form or embedded in the airframe. Pakistan is using spanish EW in Block 2 which gave an indication Chinese EW systems are not upto mark. Also we never ever saw Chinese EW Pod KG300 on JF-17. Instead we saw one JF-17 block -2 with a pod which was speculated to be Spanish EW POD. Recon + Targeting Pods. 5th Gen WVRAAM + BVRAAM. HMD. An insider months ago said Pakistan is going to purchase French HMD. Let's see his prediction come true or not. IRST. Integration of H-2, H-4, Ra'ad ALCM PGM. Integrating LASER guided bombs. More Hardpoints

 

[khanasifm]

Jf is now 13.5 ton class fighter and max load configuration will always be more than engine max thrust

Important factor is thrust to weight ratio which is never at max takeoff weight

Important factor today in 4+ and 5 g aircraft is super cursing, afterburner has penalty of high fuel consumption and usually cannot be engaged for more than seconds or few minutes during the sortie

 

[CriticalThought]

Jf is now 13.5 ton class fighter and max load configuration will always be more than engine max thrust

Important factor is thrust to weight ratio which is never at max takeoff weight

Important factor today in 4+ and 5 g is super cursing afterburner has penalty and usually cannot be enraged for more than seconds or few minutes during the sortie

Can you please explain the bold part in more detail?

 

[cabatli_53]

While Work on the Block 3 Air Frame is underway, on again off again discussions about sub-systems come in and out of focus. I wanted to start this thread to outline all of the sub-systems in the advanced 4th fighters currently on the market, and see if the JF-17 can potentially match them. Weight will obviously be a limiting factor and PAF may choose to pick simpler version of these systems.

One Sub-system is the advanced IFF on the Block 70 F-16. the PAF F-16 Block 52 also have it and China has recently showed it on its H-6K bomber. (Look under the nose of the Chinese plane) I hope we can list sub-systems in this thread and see if we can match each sub-system on fourth gen fighters.

http://www.defencenews.in/images_articles/1_img128818172900.jpg
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yMvDOllR...dtwohGhWx4ZGBzPYp4_NxQCKgBGAs/s1600/H-6KG.jpg

• A powerfull turbofan with low by-pass ratio for supercruise capability
• Full glass cockpit with fly by wire and advanced HMDS.
• Superior electronic warfare self protection and counter measure sensor, central computer and devices
• 3rd generation thermal and optic systems
• Active electronically scanned array radar with faster mission computers to improve simultaneous tracking capability along with resistance to enemy jammers.
• Advanced data-link capability allowing pilots to exchange usefull data with other aerial or land units or network with unmanned aerial vehicles or cruise missiles.
• Embeded DAS system allowing pilots to track targets locating out of sight angel by HMDS during close contacts. DAS allows pilots to fire new generation highly maneouvrable WVR missiles at any position without making a visual contact.

 

[Ultima Thule]

One 11 ton class jet-engine is needed to match up with F16 or J10C in the thrust-weight ratio.

not possible,wont fit @luciferdd

 

[FuturePAF]

• A powerfull turbofan with low by-pass ratio for supercruise capability
• Full glass cockpit with fly by wire and advanced HMDS.
• Superior electronic warfare self protection and counter measure sensor, central computer and devices
• 3rd generation thermal and optic systems
• Active electronically scanned array radar with faster mission computers to improve simultaneous tracking capability along with resistance to enemy jammers.
• Advanced data-link capability allowing pilots to exchange usefull data with other aerial or land units or network with unmanned aerial vehicles or cruise missiles.
• Embeded DAS system allowing pilots to track targets locating out of sight angel by HMDS during close contacts. DAS allows pilots to fire new generation highly maneouvrable WVR missiles at any position without making a visual contact.

Maybe the Turks have already developed this for their F-16s or TFX program, but what is the prospect of adding an Auto-GCAS to the JF-17 via Turkish or Chinese Industry?

It can save the pilot by recovering from extreme maneuvering or if the pilot falls unconscious for whatever other reason. It may also help the JF-17 fly map of the earth/low level flights for long range anti-shipping or ground attack just like the Rafale did in Libya.

If the air frame is redesigned so its RCS is reduced but its weapons are still carried externally, at low altitude it can still retain the stealth advantage over AWACS and enemy fighters flying above. (An Air Frame design such as the one shown here: http://errymath.blogspot.com/2014/12/jf-17-stealth-version-computer.html)

This is a relatively minor upgrade with huge marketing potential.

Also Do you think the Canopy should be redesigned to be a little higher, enhancing rearward visibility, and giving the plane a more sleek look. The old Adage of "If it looks right it will fly right" may also help earn foreign sales.

A Canopy not unlike that on the rafale: as was on the proposed Serbian Novi Avion Design
https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=749

 

[Deino]

The main problem is: You cannot compare a JF-17 Block XYZ to the Block 70 F-16C. Regardless what fancy avionics like AESA radar you fit, how much you modernise the comm, IFF and data-sharing capabilities it remains a different class of fighter. That's a fact and these endless wishfull-thinking ideas to enlarge the airframe, to put a WS-10 or whatever are either impossible or would result in a new aircraft.

It's in fact like trying to compare a decently pimped up Mazda MZ-5 with the true Porsche 911 in its latest edition.