“We are not seeking hostility with India for the next 100 years" pakistan's New security policy seeks ‘peace’ with India

[That Guy]

The difference between China and India little border issue is that no group of people is being caught in the middle unlike say Kashmiris. Thats why China can settle its border issue with India as easy as it settles its border issue with Russia. China has border issue with North korea as well but that does not stop both sides from cooperating.

India wants control of South Asia, China wants control of East/South East Asia and Russia wants control over Central Asia/Eastern Europe. There is no overlapping plans on any side.

If Russia and China can solve their border issue and become practically allies, China can do it with India as well there is absolutely no reason for them not to. When India sees the West as declining civilisation where whites are becoming minorities in USA and China economy ends up being far greater than USA, India will try to appease China and settle all disputes without any issue. wishful thinking on your part isn't going to change the reality that India and China will likely patch things up when the West declines.

NK basically relies on China for survival, which is why NK keeps quiet, while China doesn't want millions of refugees flooding its borders.

Russia needs China as a partner against the US.

India is different in all of these regards.

Also, China wants to dominate all of Asia all the way to Europe, thus its BRI project, which is why Russia is nervous, and India is outright hostile. This is also why the US is working so hard to build local Asian alliances against China (the US thinks of the entire world as its backyard).

That's the reality of the situation, whether you like it or not.

 

[PakShaheen79]

No army can crwal on empty stomch .... and Pakistan is learning this. I have followed NSA Moeed Yousaf for years through talk shows, his writings etc. He always said with conviction that the conventional balance of power between India and Pakistan is fast tilting towards India and if this continues for some time more it will eventually become impossible for Pakistan to put a credible deterrence let alone coercing such a large enemy. He always pointed out that this is happening due to growing economic disparity between both countries in respective terms. Furthermore, he would present the solution in shifting from geo-strategic mindset to geo-economic one and building defenses on the benefits we will get from this change. He also very strongly said that the world is listening to India not only because of her bigger market but also the packaging of Indian foreign policy where it's hard to find anything aggressive. Now whoever thinks that after this policy Pakistan has given its struggle for Kashmiris is gravely mistaken.

We are just repositioning ourselves on geopolitical chessboard for a different sort of attack vector. Someone above-mentioned all the modernization Pakistan is doing despite having this policy. Let me tell you, this policy is the proof that all this modernization is not enough to get where we want to get in terms of projection of power so that world can listen to us carefully. We are demanding things from the world which they know we cannot get on our own by compromising their strategic interests as we don't have enough military and economic muscle yet. In order to grow these muscles, we need peace as a stated policy. Look how the world is focusing on human rights in India while Pakistan was welcoming Sikh on Kartarpur Corridor. See, how in international media, we have seen a downward trend in op-eds, news ,blogs linking Pakistan with terrorism and Disinfo ops of India has been exposed. From now on, the world will take anything coming from Indian media with suspicion. This was a dream just a few years ago. The World was worried about a weak and angry Pakistan possessing the WMD. This policy shift presents to the world a confident and more calm Pakistan determined to cooperate with everyone for peace and stability instead of seeking unnecessary violence (1965,1999).

In nutshell, this is a welcome change in Islamabad. We must trust institutions responsible. For those who are more apprehensive about this policy, just remember around 100 pages of the original document will remain secret and a portion of entire document will be made public. Now think why the state of Pakistan is not releasing them for public? This single fact must be sufficed to tell open secret of statecraft equation;

In a state, the real grand strategic objectives ALWAYS remain the same while stated objectives and policies are variables here that can have different values at different times depending on different factors!

 

[Titanium100]

No army can crwal on empty stomch .... and Pakistan is learning this. I have followed NSA Moeed Yousaf for years through talk shows, his writings etc. He always said with conviction that the conventional balance of power between India and Pakistan is fast tilting towards India and if this continues for some time more it will eventually become impossible for Pakistan to put a credible deterrence let alone coercing such a large enemy. He always pointed out that this is happening due to growing economic disparity between both countries in respective terms. Furthermore, he would present the solution in shifting from geo-strategic mindset to geo-economic one and building defenses on the benefits we will get from this change. He also very strongly said that the world is listening to India not only because of her bigger market but also the packaging of Indian foreign policy where it's hard to find anything aggressive. Now whoever thinks that after this policy Pakistan has given its struggle for Kashmiris is gravely mistaken.

We are just repositioning ourselves on geopolitical chessboard for a different sort of attack vector. Someone above-mentioned all the modernization Pakistan is doing despite having this policy. Let me tell you, this policy is the proof that all this modernization is not enough to get where we want to get in terms of projection of power so that world can listen to us carefully. We are demanding things from the world which they know we cannot get on our own by compromising their strategic interests as we don't have enough military and economic muscle yet. In order to grow these muscles, we need peace as a stated policy. Look how the world is focusing on human rights in India while Pakistan was welcoming Sikh on Kartarpur Corridor. See, how in international media, we have seen a downward trend in op-eds, news ,blogs linking Pakistan with terrorism and Disinfo ops of India has been exposed. From now on, the world will take anything coming from Indian media with suspicion. This was a dream just a few years ago. The World was worried about a weak and angry Pakistan possessing the WMD. This policy shift presents to the world a confident and more calm Pakistan determined to cooperate with everyone for peace and stability instead of seeking unnecessary violence (1965,1999).

In nutshell, this is a welcome change in Islamabad. We must trust institutions responsible. For those who are more apprehensive about this policy, just remember around 100 pages of the original document will remain secret and a portion of entire document will be made public. Now think why the state of Pakistan is not releasing them for public? This single fact must be sufficed to tell open secret of statecraft equation;

In a state, the real grand strategic objectives ALWAYS remain the same while stated objectives and policies are variables here that can have different values at different times depending on different factors!

This is major fallacy.. Economy don't win wars besides India has the largest poverty in the world and I mean India has more poverty then the whole world combined.. The 3T you are seeing is livelihood for 1.5bil people and believe me 3t is not enough for them and this is huge poverty..

India needs atleast a century in order to break the poverty barrier and it will take them that kind of time in order to get out of it. Hence the parity tilt is not realistic. I follow what they have from heavy to small arms they don't have any edge over us anywhere.

the superior edge will tilt towards the one whos more eager and wants it more.. It is about desire not a question about money as the amount of cash both states have is around the same not talking about what these 1.5b are eating daily that cash is not counted here and irrelevant..

Our government really knows what to do exactly in order to gain the edge over them and these answers lay in the mountains of AFG.. We could create an environment and with installation preparation level to such an extent nothing will breach if even the whole world was to gather.. A solid fundation unlike anything..

The gear and preparations has to be geared towards this and we have to prepare as if we are embracing for gog and magog impact. Tunnel networks thru the mountains etc etc.. We gotta build a network where if all the nukes in the world was used we not harm us in the slightest.. It is about preparations, preparations this is what would tilt this to someone who does the homework best but we have to take this a extent further to create the greatest impregnatable fortness known to mankind we have to build a marvels insfrastrutrure

 

[PakShaheen79]

This is major fallacy.. Economy don't win wars besides India has the largest poverty in the world and I mean India has more poverty then the whole world combined.. The 3T you are seeing is livelihood for 1.5bil people and believe me 3t is not enough for them and this is huge poverty..

India needs atleast a century in order to break the poverty barrier and it will take them that kind of time in order to get out of it. Hence the parity tilt is not realistic. I follow what they have from heavy to small arms they don't have any edge over us anywhere.

the superior edge will tilt towards the one whos more eager and wants it more.. It is about desire not a question about money as the amount of cash both states have is around the same not talking about what these 1.5b are eating daily that cash is not counted here and irrelevant..

Our government really knows what to do exactly in order to gain the edge over them and these answers lay in the mountains of AFG.. We could create an environment and with installation preparation level to such an extent nothing will breach if even the whole world was to gather.. A solid foundation unlike anything

Have no idea if I am supposed to laugh here or cry! Have you noticed how much of GDP we are spending on defense compared to them? Have you noticed what it translates in terms of billions of USD they are spending on their armed forces? Have you noticed per soldier spending by each country? Did it occur to you that IAF and IN have dedicated military satellites for ISR apart from all the new tech like P-8Is etc. they are getting? 36 Rafales may not sound that alarming, but it triggered you to spend more on J-10Cs and there is another one is coming in the Arabian Sea (either Rafale-M or F-18 Block III trials are going on in Goa as we speak). How do you propose Pakistan is going to counter that without worrying about economy? Do you know after singing 4 strategic cooperation agreement with the US, what kind of tech is being transferred to India not only from US but from all NATO countries? Did you ever hear any Indian leader doing nuclear saber rattling on media like ours do now and then? No! Why? Because they know where they are heading in terms of conventional balance of power. So they make us look weak and vulnerable to the world when we suggest fighting them with nuclear weapons. What made Pakistan test Fateh-1 GMLR system in presence of nuclear capable Nasr? There was a lesson learned and implemented.

You want to underestimate your enemy, be my guest, but please don't preach it as a policy option.

 

[Menace2Society]

They literally just attacked you the other year. You are their insecurity.

 

[Titanium100]

Have no idea if I am supposed to laugh here or cry! Have you noticed how much of GDP we are spending on defense compared to them? Have you noticed what it translates in terms of billions of USD they are spending on their armed forces? Have you noticed per soldier spending by each country? Did it occur to you that IAF and IN have dedicated military satellites for ISR apart from all the new tech like P-8Is etc. they are getting? 36 Rafales may not sound that alarming, but it triggered you to spend more on J-10Cs and there is another one is coming in the Arabian Sea (either Rafale-M or F-18 Block III trials are going on in Goa as we speak). How do you propose Pakistan is going to counter that without worrying about economy? Do you know after singing 4 strategic cooperation agreement with the US, what kind of tech is being transferred to India not only from US but from all NATO countries? Did you ever hear any Indian leader doing nuclear saber rattling on media like ours do now and then? No! Why? Because they know where they are heading in terms of conventional balance of power. So they make us look weak and vulnerable to the world when we suggest fighting them with nuclear weapons. What made Pakistan test Fateh-1 GMLR system in presence of nuclear capable Nasr? There was a lesson learned and implemented.

You want to underestimate your enemy, be my guest, but please don't preach it as a policy option.

I know more then you what they have.. I don't get moved by that because I know it fully nor do I buy their hype cause I am not a layman in military hardware... Everything comes down to our preparation level.. We will keep using both in local production and purchase we are not deterred by that.. But it all comes down to us and our desire nothing more. I don't think NATO will transfer weapons here as that will create headache for them elsewhere..

If you wanna become cheerleader for them go ahead and be my guest.. But we are not buying it even the slightest it will fall on deaf ears nor am I underrating them just not overrating we can take them fully.. these pacifists and vegetarians they won't even be our toughest war...

It's about mindset and we will rollover these vegetarians mark my words... They will crack in the moment of truth and when they get their back against the wall their true self will appear they dislike death and destruction like the pest they will betray themselves at the hour of need. It was never a coincidence or fluke that a minority ruled India 1000 years their true character in the moment of hardship will appear rest assured

 

[SIPRA]

Any news on yesterday's China-India military talks. Indian channels are completely silent.
@SQ8
@peagle
@PanzerKiel
@HRK
@Rafi
@PakShaheen79
@That Guy
@waz
@The Eagle

 

[Titanium100]

Any news on yesterday's China-India military talks. Indian channels are completely silent.

Make a new thread for it instead much better that way.. So we can tackle that subject separately as it is also technically off-topic

 

[SIPRA]

Make a new thread for it instead much better that way.. So we can tackle that subject separately as it is also technically off-topic

Actually, I don't know, how a thread is made? So, I raised this question here.

 

[retaxis]

NK basically relies on China for survival, which is why NK keeps quiet, while China doesn't want millions of refugees flooding its borders.

Russia needs China as a partner against the US.

India is different in all of these regards.

Also, China wants to dominate all of Asia all the way to Europe, thus its BRI project, which is why Russia is nervous, and India is outright hostile. This is also why the US is working so hard to build local Asian alliances against China (the US thinks of the entire world as its backyard).

That's the reality of the situation, whether you like it or not.

You believe China and Indian ambitions are going to clash but thats just not the facts on the ground.
China cares about East and South East Asia because of traditional and cultural ties and cares little for any country outside of that region
India cares about South Asia and little for anything else beyond that.
China has a policy of non intervention and has traditionally been a power that minds its own business and focuses on making trade and money.
BRI is just like a new silk road, its meant to make everyone richer and more prosperous and there are no Chinese bases built anywhere on the new silk road and you know that.
You are simply deluded into thinking that China is like White western powers who simply want to dominate, destroy, enslave when they can. China is different we build walls to separate ourselves from others rather than enslaving others. That is the fact of the matter, we do things differently from whites.

 

[Pak Nationalist]

The hybrid regime has achieved what the likes of NS can never even imagine achieving lest the likes of Difa e Pakistan council spring up at every nook and cranny of the country. Congratulations to the nation now that Pakistan has accepted Indian hegemony. India can now in peace go about the task of bleeding Pakistan through proxy wars, converting the Muslim majority into a minority in Kashmir valley unleashing a mix of the ruthless slaughter on any form of resistance and settler colonialism. Pakistan will continue picking the carcasses of its fallen soldiers in Ex Fata and Balochistan.

Some used to say democracy is really the best revenge, well, pseudo-democracy is worse than revenge.

 

[Titanium100]

The hybrid regime has achieved what the likes of NS can never even imagine achieving lest the likes of Difa e Pakistan council spring up at every nook and cranny of the country. Congratulations to the nation now that Pakistan has accepted Indian hegemony. India can now in peace go about the task of bleeding Pakistan through proxy wars, converting the Muslim majority into a minority in Kashmir valley using a mix of the ruthless slaughter on any form of resistance and settler colonialism. Pakistan will continue picking the carcasses of its fallen soldiers in Ex Fata and Balochistan.

Some used to say democracy is really the best revenge, well, pseudo-democracy is worse than revenge.

Never go full retard... What is stated here is the formal policy in the region nobody seeks war whether it is China, India etc etc literally nobody.. I know it would be to much for layman to understand this

Actually, I don't know, how a thread is made? So, I raised this question here.

You don't know how to make a thread

 

[SIPRA]

You don't know how to make a thread

No. I only post and respond, and know how to paste an image in the post. Other features, I don't know. Whenever necessary, I request some fellow poster to open a thread.

Never go full retard... What is stated here is the formal policy in the region nobody seeks war whether it is China, India etc etc literally nobody.. I know it would be to much for layman to understand this

Sometimes, I wonder that people can be so naive on geopolitics and diplomacy.

 

[Pak Nationalist]

Never go full retard... What is stated here is the formal policy in the region nobody seeks war whether it is China, India etc etc literally nobody.. I know it would be to much for layman to understand this


You don't know how to make a thread

Sanctify appeasement. If only this came from someone like NS, we would have seen how much understanding, forgiving, and inclined towards spin-doctoring you would have been.

Things have to be seen in their larger contexts. The type of appeasement this regime has done of India is nearly unparalleled given the magnitude of hostility that has emanated from that country towards this one over the course of the past 5-7 years. Groveling for "talks", yapping about peace when the other side has not only sealed the fate of IoJK from its side but now openly expresses the desire to annex AJK/GB.

 

[Titanium100]

No. I only post and respond, and know how to paste an image in the post. Other features, I don't know. Whenever necessary, I request some fellow poster to open a thread.

Are you using phone or Laptop?

If laptop you look for the top where there is Facebook Twitter logo it is top right on the screen then just below it you see create thread option..

Sometimes, I wonder that people can be so naive on geopolitics and diplomacy.

It constantly happens here