VVIP chopper scam: India cancels Rs. 3,600-crore deal with AgustaWestland

[sancho]

But has any investigation actually come to such conclusions? I think not. The Italian court cases haven't even concluded yet. Antony is simply jumping the gun.

The Italian cases are not relevent for us and wrt deal. We only can use the infos we get from them in our own investigations and it seems they proves for bribes are solid enough, why else would they cancel the deal now. What we don't know yet is what proves and against whom, however that the Italians went against the rules of the deal seems to be clear now and it's definitely now a decision on his own, shouldn't

AFAIK the Mi-17s (even V5s) don't comply with the original RFP for this deal and are inherently sub-par to the likes of the AW-101 and S-92.

If the original RFP is the basis, the EC 725 must be procured, since it was the only one complying to the requirements, but to avoid the single vendor solution, the requirements were changed afterwards.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

But has any investigation actually come to such conclusions? I think not. The Italian court cases haven't even concluded yet. Antony is simply jumping the gun.


AFAIK the Mi-17s (even V5s) don't comply with the original RFP for this deal and are inherently sub-par to the likes of the AW-101 and S-92.

I think that you are jumping the gun. The contract had an integrity clause that allowed for the contract to be frozen or withdrawn if any malfeasance was found. The prima-facie evidence indicates that already. This came out of depositions in the Italian Courts and as part of the evidence shared with India. That seems to be sufficient grounds. Remember that Anthony did not act out of his own head. The Attorney General and Law Ministry's opinion was sought and received then acted upon. Also India has agreed to the initiation of Arbitration Proceedings. The proceedings there will also be impacted by the proceedings in the Italian Court.

Now about the Helos themselves; they be "beautiful" but they are not the Cat's Whiskers.
Incidentally, the last purchase of Westland Helos (WG-40s) in the reign of Rajiv Gandhi turned out to be lemons and Pawan Hans ended up selling them for scrap long ago, while the Aerospatiale Dauphins bought at the same time are still flying with Pawan Hans!

So who is really affected by the cancellation. Nobody. Except for some odd VVIPs. Whats the big deal?
They can continue to fly in the less plush and more noisy Mi-17s. India needs some other Helos before these fancy toys.

 

[Abingdonboy]

So who is really affected by the cancellation. Nobody. Except for some odd VVIPs. Whats the big deal?
They can continue to fly in the less plush and more noisy Mi-17s. India needs some other Helos before these fancy toys.

Come on sir- you're better than this! It's not just "any old" VVIP we're talking about but the very highest echelons of the Indian govt- the PM, President and a select group of senior cabinet ministers and the 3 service chiefs. The issues with the current Mi-17s isn't thay are less comfortable but safety related. They are inherently far less safe than the more modern three-engined AW-101s. The IAF has said themselves these MI-17s will be unsafe to fly by 2016/17. Do you really want the most important members of India's democracy to start passing away in entirely avoidable helo crashes?

Naturally there are other helo deals that are critical for India's national security also.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Come on sir- you're better than this! It's not just "any old" VVIP we're talking about but the very highest echelons of the Indian govt- the PM, President and a select group of senior cabinet ministers and the 3 service chiefs. The issues with the current Mi-17s isn't thay are less comfortable but safety related. They are inherently far less safe than the more modern three-engined AW-101s. The IAF has said themselves these MI-17s will be unsafe to fly by 2016/17. Do you really want the most important members of India's democracy to start passing away in entirely avoidable helo crashes?

Naturally there are other helo deals that are critical for India's national security also.

Hey c'mon; how many Mi-17s carrying these assorted blokes have crashed so far?
Thats not a reason that I'm buying. And when did the IAF say that Mi-17s are getting unsafe to fly in 2016-17 ??
For chrissakes, the latest Mi17s are still coming in; you're just getting mixed up someplace now.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Hey c'mon; how many Mi-17s carrying these assorted blokes have crashed so far?
Thats not a reason that I'm buying. And when did the IAF say that Mi-17s are getting unsafe to fly in 2016-17 ??
For chrissakes, the latest Mi17s are still coming in; you're just getting mixed up someplace now.

It appears the situation is worse than I thought :

Need urgent decision on helicopters for VVIPs, says air force chief

Apparently they will be phased out this year (2014).

And even the latest Mi-17s the IAF is getting (the V5s) are no match for the likes of the AW-101 when it comes to safety and suitability for the job.

I'm not getting mixed up at all. This is just simple logic.

 

[Imran Khan]

apni VVIP deal main bhi ghotala ?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

It appears the situation is worse than I thought :

Need urgent decision on helicopters for VVIPs, says air force chief

Apparently they will be phased out this year (2014).

And even the latest Mi-17s the IAF is getting (the V5s) are no match for the likes of the AW-101 when it comes to safety and suitability for the job.

I'm not getting mixed up at all. This is just simple logic.

Who said that about urgent need for Helos for VVIPs Tyagi or Browne? both were part of the vetting of the Helos for that contract, btw.

Apart from that; no VVIP has died yet while flying a Mi-8 (which btw are the ones up for replacement) or a Mi-17. Safe enough.
Then the Mi-17s which are now used for flying these blokes around; are fitted with comfortable seats, not canvas fold-down bench seats. They even sport the fancy two-tone color schemes. So suitable enough.

Now let the MoD and IAF get cracking on the pending orders, like the Apaches and Chinooks. Makes mores sense. Even a Chinook can be turned into a VVIP configuration. What Helos are used as "Marine One" in the USA? For the POTUS.

VVIPS can wait their turn or continue with the Mi-17s. Or buy more insurance cover if they find the prospects daunting.

 

[HRK]

India Opts Not to Blacklist AgustaWestland | Defense News | defensenews.com

NEW DELHI — The Indian Defence Ministry will not blacklist AgustaWestland or parent company Finmeccanica, restricting its action only to canceling the €556 million (US $766 million) contract for 12 VVIP helicopters to India, MoD sources said.

The decision not to blacklist AgustaWestland allows it to remain in two Indian competitions, added one of the sources.

AgustaWestland is competing to supply 56 naval utility helicopters to the Indian Navy and 14 twin-engine helicopters to the Indian Coast Guard.

In the Navy competition, AgustaWestland is competing with Eurocopter. The Indian Navy is planning to procure twin-engine light helicopters to replace its aging Cheetah and Chetak machines.

In the Indian Coast Guard tender, two other companies, including Sikorsky and Eurocopter, have also submitted their bids.

On Jan. 1, the MoD canceled its 2010 contract with AgustaWestland for the 12 VVIP helicopters, citing a breach of the Integrity Pact signed by the company.

MoD sources said the decision to cancel the contract but not blacklist the company was taken after Indian Defence Minister A.K. Antony met Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Jan. 1. No details of the meeting have been divulged.

Nitin Mehta, a New Delhi-based defense analyst, said the MoD is trying “to send a message ahead of the general elections for early 2014 that the ruling government is taking action against corruption.”

India’s previous blacklisting of companies have adversely affected several weapons projects, including the artillery purchase program and a deal to address shortages in ammunition. The blacklisted companies include Denel of South Africa, Singapore Technologies, Israel Military Industries and Rheinmetall Air Defence.

An AgustaWestland executive said the company has not formally received MoD’s announcement of the helicopter contract cancellation and as such will not comment on the matter.

The executive, however, added that the company will proceed for arbitration on MoD’s decision.

India’s Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) has filed no charge sheets against any individual or company in connection with the canceled contract.

AgustaWestland is accused of using corrupt practices to win the helicopter contract. The Indian government halted the contract last year after Giuseppe Orsi, then-CEO of Finmeccanica, was arrested in Italy and charged with paying bribes to secure the Indian deal while he was CEO of AgustaWestland. New Delhi stopped payments on the contract and referred the matter to the CBI.

Meanwhile, Indian defense planners have said that blacklisting Finmeccanica or even AgustaWestland could impede several defense projects.

Wass, a subsidiary of Finmeccanica, is upgrading India’s A244 lightweight torpedoes and has offered its Black Shark torpedoes.

The torpedoes marked A244-S are being upgraded to extend the life of the torpedoes by another 20 years. Wass is fitting the torpedoes with a new fire control system and is enhancing their range, speed, target acquisition and counter measures.

Finmeccanica has also offered to participate in the joint development of ongoing torpedo programs under the Defence Research and Development Organisation.

Selex of Italy, another subsidiary of Finmeccanica, has been awarded a contract to supply an advanced 3D Band Air Surveillance Radar for the Navy’s home-grown aircraft carrier being built at Cochin Shipyard. The blacklisting of Finmeccanica would adversely affect India’s aircraft carrier program, which is already delayed by over four years.