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The chinese are the first ones that started modifying the S-75 design as a ground to ground missile.

S-75 was used on numerous times as a ground to ground missile. I even think Vietnam has used it in such a way few times during war with USA if my memory is still good.

Almaz has designed almost all missiles systems to be capable to attack ground target, it is a feature made by designer and producers of Dvina and Neva and many other missiles systems from Soviet Union and today Russia.

It was always there but it is not a primary role of system so it is rare to talk about it or event see that capabilities in usual catalogues that are available to public with short descriptions of systems.

Iraq has used in wars SA-2 and SA-3 as guided to attack ground targets, in Yugoslavia wars that air defense systems was used in such a role to attack ground targets.

In Iraq with some help and ideas from Yugoslavia who had a project of Vulcan ground to air(later made and modified for ground to ground attacks but never adopted in armament of YPA) in late 50's and mid 60's, Iraq under sanctions started development in 90's of ground to ground unguided version of ground to air guided missile. S-75 has a liquid fuel so it was a potential good candidate to convert it to a ballistic missile that does not requires quick deployment.

There was also some modifications of ground to sea or sea to sea missiles for ground to ground attack, some are produced new with such a option it was a Soviet school that propagates - enables such diversities in missiles systems.

For example when we talk about sea to sea missiles Styx P-15 missiles was modified to be used for ground to ground role, Rubez was one of older systems capable to attack ground targets.

New missiles systems such a s-300,s-400 and Bastions have such a capabilities to attack ground targets but it is considered secondary role and not much advertised.

BTW

Iran has obtained much of its missiles technologies from Iraq and Yugoslavia not directly but because both states have collapsed, people where willing to give and sell information trough some side channels and in case of Iraq many scientist working on military project after invasion of Iraq fled to Iran and they took their knowledge with them.

Iran have modified many land to air and sea to sea missiles for ground to ground role.

Main sources of all Iranian missile technologies are N.Korea. China Yugoslavia and Iraq. They(Iran) have in recent two decades perfected some of technologies they previously copied, obtained, steel and developed now in use their own unique designs some of them are very successful and very good.
 
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Hanoi November 11. Vietnam/United States bilateral summit

Interesting remark of Donald Trump: he says he seeks strong partners not weak ones. The meeting between US president and VN communist chief is behind closed doors. Some of the agreements: VN will buy US aircraft engines, trucks and invest in an Alaska gas and pipeline project. I believe the Chinese invest money in other places but not in Alaska.

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Interesting: the US government wants to sell military hardware to the former enemy Vietnam to increase exports. Donald Trump complains on Sunday about the United States trade deficit with Vietnam: US$32 billion in 2016. He mentions US-made Patriot missile defence system that Vietnam can buy. Yes make America great again Mr President.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/11/trump-urges-vietnam-buy-missiles-171112083317942.html

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I read that the patriot missile defense system isnt all that great. Which makes sense because I do not think we would sell a former enemy anything of real effectiveness.
 
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Xi calls for advancing of China-Vietnam ties
Xinhua, November 13, 2017

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Chinese President Xi Jinping, also general secretary of the Communist Party of China Central Committee, addresses a welcoming banquet held by General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam Central Committee Nguyen Phu Trong and Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang at the International Convention Center in Hanoi, Vietnam, Nov. 12, 2017. [Photo/Xinhua]

Chinese President Xi Jinping on Sunday called for advancing the China-Vietnam comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership while attending a welcoming banquet in Hanoi.

General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Central Committee Nguyen Phu Trong and Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang held a banquet for Xi, also general secretary of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee, at the International Convention Center.

Xi stressed that his state visit to Vietnam aims to consolidate traditional friendship, deepen practical cooperation and chart out future for bilateral ties.

The fact that China and Vietnam both follow the leadership of Communist parties and socialist road, jointly strengthen solidarity and cooperation, as well as seek prosperity, is in line with the fundamental interests of both peoples and conducive to the peace, stability and development of the region and the world, said Xi.

Xi urged the two countries continue to be good neighbors, good friends, good comrades and good partners.

Trong, on behalf of the Vietnamese party, government and people, extended warm welcome to Xi, saying that Vietnam and China are neighbors with traditional friendship.

Vietnam attaches great importance to Vietnam-China ties and is willing to work together with China to enhance traditional friendship, deepen practical cooperation and ensure sustainable, healthy and stable development of the comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership, Trong said.

Trong believed that Xi's visit will inject new impetus to the bilateral ties.

Xi arrived in Hanoi on Sunday for a state visit to the Southeast Asian country. It is his second visit to Vietnam as China's head of state and top CPC leader. His previous state visit was in 2015.

http://china.org.cn/world/2017-11/13/content_41882336.htm

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Chinese President Xi Jinping, also general secretary of the Communist Party of China Central Committee, and Nguyen Phu Trong, general secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam Central Committee, witness the signing of a memorandum of understanding on joint implementation of the Belt and Road Initiative and Vietnam's "Two Corridors and One Economic Circle" plan, as well as a series of cooperation documents in such areas as industrial capacity, energy, cross-border economic cooperation zone, e-commerce, human resources, economy and trade, finance, culture, health, media, social science, and border defense, after their talks in Hanoi, Vietnam, Nov. 12, 2017. (Xinhua/Yao Dawei)
 
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I read that the patriot missile defense system isnt all that great.
Soviet/Russian/Chinese gear ain't something to cheer about either. When I was active duty, I had a chance to see the classified technical analyses of the MIG-25. The jet is essentially crap.
 
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Urgent: China, Vietnam agree to fully, effectively implement DOC
Xinhua, November 13, 2017
HANOI, Nov. 13 (Xinhua) -- China and Vietnam agreed to fully and effectively implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC), according to a joint statement released on Monday by the two countries.

The two sides also agreed to reach the Code of Conduct (COC) in the South China Sea as soon as possible on the basis of consultation, according to the statement.

http://www.china.org.cn/world/Off_the_Wire/2017-11/13/content_41884500.htm

Urgent: Vietnam reaffirms adherence to one-China policy
Xinhua, November 13, 2017
HANOI, Nov. 13 (Xinhua) -- Vietnam reaffirms its firm adherence to the one-China policy in a joint statement issued by China and Vietnam on Monday.

In the statement, the Vietnamese side voices support for the peaceful development of cross-Strait relations and the great cause of China's peaceful reunification, saying it will resolutely oppose any separatist attempts for "Taiwan independence."

Vietnam does not have any official relations with Taiwan and China appreciates this, according to the statement.

http://www.china.org.cn/world/Off_the_Wire/2017-11/13/content_41884451.htm
 
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Soviet/Russian/Chinese gear ain't something to cheer about either. When I was active duty, I had a chance to see the classified technical analyses of the MIG-25. The jet is essentially crap.

Why do you say that?
 
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Xi calls for advancing of China-Vietnam ties
Xinhua, November 13, 2017

7427ea210c541b7330d701.jpg
Chinese President Xi Jinping, also general secretary of the Communist Party of China Central Committee, addresses a welcoming banquet held by General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam Central Committee Nguyen Phu Trong and Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang at the International Convention Center in Hanoi, Vietnam, Nov. 12, 2017. [Photo/Xinhua]

Chinese President Xi Jinping on Sunday called for advancing the China-Vietnam comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership while attending a welcoming banquet in Hanoi.

General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Central Committee Nguyen Phu Trong and Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang held a banquet for Xi, also general secretary of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee, at the International Convention Center.

Xi stressed that his state visit to Vietnam aims to consolidate traditional friendship, deepen practical cooperation and chart out future for bilateral ties.

The fact that China and Vietnam both follow the leadership of Communist parties and socialist road, jointly strengthen solidarity and cooperation, as well as seek prosperity, is in line with the fundamental interests of both peoples and conducive to the peace, stability and development of the region and the world, said Xi.

Xi urged the two countries continue to be good neighbors, good friends, good comrades and good partners.

Trong, on behalf of the Vietnamese party, government and people, extended warm welcome to Xi, saying that Vietnam and China are neighbors with traditional friendship.

Vietnam attaches great importance to Vietnam-China ties and is willing to work together with China to enhance traditional friendship, deepen practical cooperation and ensure sustainable, healthy and stable development of the comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership, Trong said.

Trong believed that Xi's visit will inject new impetus to the bilateral ties.

Xi arrived in Hanoi on Sunday for a state visit to the Southeast Asian country. It is his second visit to Vietnam as China's head of state and top CPC leader. His previous state visit was in 2015.

http://china.org.cn/world/2017-11/13/content_41882336.htm

FOREIGN201711130718000562769938812.jpg




Chinese President Xi Jinping, also general secretary of the Communist Party of China Central Committee, and Nguyen Phu Trong, general secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam Central Committee, witness the signing of a memorandum of understanding on joint implementation of the Belt and Road Initiative and Vietnam's "Two Corridors and One Economic Circle" plan, as well as a series of cooperation documents in such areas as industrial capacity, energy, cross-border economic cooperation zone, e-commerce, human resources, economy and trade, finance, culture, health, media, social science, and border defense, after their talks in Hanoi, Vietnam, Nov. 12, 2017. (Xinhua/Yao Dawei)
I read a bit thru the 19 agreements signed during the visit of Xi Jinping. Not a breakthrough but more substance than just a cooperation between the two countries Red Cross both sides had agreed at last summit. Vietnam gives a goahead for a Chinese Bank and a tyre manufacturing plants.
 
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Why do you say that?
Let us take your comment...

I read that the patriot missile defense system isnt all that great.

What have you read ?

Any time we want to talk about hardware, whether it is for civilian or military purpose, inevitably we tread into the technical realm.

There is an old programmer's advice: The software does not do what you wanted it to do, but it does what you tell it to do.

There is a great difference in what you want and what you finally had to do. Hardware is no different. Am not talking about the Patriot missile or the MIG-25. Am talking about the intent of your question.

What does 'all that great' mean ? Is there an internationally accepted standard for missile combat successes ? What is that standard ? What are the criteria that establishes that standard ? How were those criteria tested before they were accepted to become a standard ?

The reality is that there are more credible informally accepted standard on what is a 'great infantryman' than there are for what is a 'great air defense missile', especially when the target is another missile and not an aircraft. The Patriot missile was NOT originally designed to be used against another missile. So when it was used in that manner, of course it will have mixed results.

Whenever people criticize the Patriot missile in that role -- and am not saying you are such a critic -- they are not interested in discussions of the technical issues involved. It is like criticizing a truck for failure to qualify for a Formula One race. And the criticism is directed at those who do not care to research on what is a 'truck' and what is that Formula One racer. The gullible will believe the vehicles are technically the same, therefore, the critics must be correct.

I have presented the technical arguments on the Patriot missile on this forum many times over the yrs. I can practically sense over the Internet that the critics glazed their eyes at the technical facts. Am not talking about high level math equations but just general principles.

For example, have you heard of 'intercept guidance laws' such as 'proportional navigation' ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_navigation
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a243123.pdf

Would you believe that the sport of hockey uses PN in analyzing tactics ? Not just for the puck on the ice but on how players can intercept opponents.

Proportional Navigation is just one of many variations of guidance laws that forms the foundation of missile designs. A project would involve mathematicians, programmers, aerodynamicists, propulsion engineers, and material specialists.

Critics of American weapons systems are not interested in these items. Let me know if you are willing to be objective and learn new things.
 
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Let us take your comment...

I read that the patriot missile defense system isnt all that great.

What have you read ?

Any time we want to talk about hardware, whether it is for civilian or military purpose, inevitably we tread into the technical realm.

There is an old programmer's advice: The software does not do what you wanted it to do, but it does what you tell it to do.

There is a great difference in what you want and what you finally had to do. Hardware is no different. Am not talking about the Patriot missile or the MIG-25. Am talking about the intent of your question.

What does 'all that great' mean ? Is there an internationally accepted standard for missile combat successes ? What is that standard ? What are the criteria that establishes that standard ? How were those criteria tested before they were accepted to become a standard ?

The reality is that there are more credible informally accepted standard on what is a 'great infantryman' than there are for what is a 'great air defense missile', especially when the target is another missile and not an aircraft. The Patriot missile was NOT originally designed to be used against another missile. So when it was used in that manner, of course it will have mixed results.

Whenever people criticize the Patriot missile in that role -- and am not saying you are such a critic -- they are not interested in discussions of the technical issues involved. It is like criticizing a truck for failure to qualify for a Formula One race. And the criticism is directed at those who do not care to research on what is a 'truck' and what is that Formula One racer. The gullible will believe the vehicles are technically the same, therefore, the critics must be correct.

I have presented the technical arguments on the Patriot missile on this forum many times over the yrs. I can practically sense over the Internet that the critics glazed their eyes at the technical facts. Am not talking about high level math equations but just general principles.

For example, have you heard of 'intercept guidance laws' such as 'proportional navigation' ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_navigation
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a243123.pdf

Would you believe that the sport of hockey uses PN in analyzing tactics ? Not just for the puck on the ice but on how players can intercept opponents.

Proportional Navigation is just one of many variations of guidance laws that forms the foundation of missile designs. A project would involve mathematicians, programmers, aerodynamicists, propulsion engineers, and material specialists.

Critics of American weapons systems are not interested in these items. Let me know if you are willing to be objective and learn new things.

Enlighten me.
 
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Trump begged Vietnam to buy US military equipment because he needed ‘quick wins’: report
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BRAD REED
14 NOV 2017 AT 07:05 ET



President Donald Trump reportedly begged the Vietnamese government to buy American military equipment because he needed “quick wins” ahead of upcoming elections.

Sources tell Bloomberg that Trump grilled Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc about why his country wasn’t spending more money buying American weapons.

“He needed quick wins, he told his team in the room, because he’d be running for re-election before anyone realized,” Bloombergreports. “And weapons sales, in Trump’s view, are good for his approval ratings.”

Trump apparently spent much of his trip hawking American weapons to other countries, as he sought to emulate the early success he had in cutting a massive weapons deal with Saudi Arabia earlier this year.

“Trump rarely set down in a country without pointing out that buying a few F-18s would go a long way toward winning his heart,” Bloomberg writes. “But he’ll return home to Washington without having secured a major new order for American defense contractors.”

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