USS Fitzgerald 'at fault': Crew failed to react to approaching cargo ship in devastating crash that

[powastick]

You have to understanding that the investigation is not completed and thus that official may not want his name in the article but that does not mean that official is a low end in the department nor he/she was not an expert in the field. CNN and other major US media are citing this guy so I'm pretty sure he is not some junkie but a high-class official. We are dealing with a big issue here where family of the dead want a real investigation so expect more information to come out sooner than later.

As who fault it is, I already told you that I'm very confident that US navy will be the main fault while some fault may only be from the Crystal if it's true that everybody was asleep as claimed which I doubt. The fact is Fritz totally blindside the Crystal by turning off radar broadcasting. So it is the navy responsibility to avoid any ships. Also you have to understand that these huge boat are not the same as car so the right of road don't always apply. Who had the right of ways remain to be seeen but from common logic tell me the Fritz should not across in front due to the fact the Crystal is a heavy boat, slow and not very maneuverable. That is like asking a freight train to stay clear out of a bus crossing a rail track.

US is like the road bully is at fault in a car accident, tries to make you look guilty to avoid paying you money.

 

[jhungary]

You have to understanding that the investigation is not completed and thus that official may not want his name in the article but that does not mean that official is a low end in the department nor he/she was not an expert in the field. CNN and other major US media are citing this guy so I'm pretty sure he is not some junkie but a high-class official. We are dealing with a big issue here where family of the dead want a real investigation so expect more information to come out sooner than later.

As who fault it is, I already told you that I'm very confident that US navy will be the main fault while some fault may only be from the Crystal if it's true that everybody was asleep as claimed which I doubt. The fact is Fritz totally blindside the Crystal by turning off radar broadcasting. So it is the navy responsibility to avoid any ships. Also you have to understand that these huge boat are not the same as car so the right of road don't always apply. Who had the right of ways remain to be seeen but from common logic tell me the Fritz should not across in front due to the fact the Crystal is a heavy boat, slow and not very maneuverable. That is like asking a freight train to stay clear out of a bus crossing a rail track.

Yeah, you will know, as much as every other Chinese member here that seemingly can see into future. More so than people that actually was there. Seemingly the Chinese member here know a lot of information that have not been release to be "Very Confident" this is one side's fault. I know someone who actually talked to the crew of Fitzgerald and many of them don't even know why they crashed, and yuet the Chinese member here seemingly know a lot more than people that was there.

one thing tho, if Everyone is asleep on ACX crystal and do not post look out then it would be totally be ACX crystal fault as per IMO law no matter what her status and/or what the other party do. IMO law explicitly require look out and pilot to be posted 24 hours a day and 7 days a week when you are in voyage. If ACX Crystal crews is asleep at that time, it does not matter where Fitzgerald is hit, they will be at fault. It's just like a plane crash into another plane, even when the plane that is supposed to have give way did not give, if the plane that is on the right does not have anyone in their cockpit while flying in autopilot, then that plane is at fault, regardless of the other action. That much I know as myself is a Private Pilot.

No Official (Which involved in the investigation) would say that to generalise a situation like that, because a lot of detail have to consider to assign blame, saying generalised comment like that would be a clear indication that person know nothing on the situation. Simply because if investigation they are involved in is that generalise, there WILL NOT BE a need to start an investigation in the first place.

So, for me, your opinion worth nothing.

 

[powastick]

Yeah, you will know, as much as every other Chinese member here that seemingly can see into future. More so than people that actually was there. Seemingly the Chinese member here know a lot of information that have not been release to be "Very Confident" this is one side's fault. I know someone who actually talked to the crew of Fitzgerald and many of them don't even know why they crashed, and yuet the Chinese member here seemingly know a lot more than people that was there.

one thing tho, if Everyone is asleep on ACX crystal and do not post look out then it would be totally be ACX crystal fault as per IMO law no matter what her status and/or what the other party do. IMO law explicitly require look out and pilot to be posted 24 hours a day and 7 days a week when you are in voyage. If ACX Crystal crews is asleep at that time, it does not matter where Fitzgerald is hit, they will be at fault. It's just like a plane crash into another plane, even when the plane that is supposed to have give way did not give, if the plane that is on the right does not have anyone in their cockpit while flying in autopilot, then that plane is at fault, regardless of the other action. That much I know as myself is a Private Pilot.

No Official (Which involved in the investigation) would say that to generalise a situation like that, because a lot of detail have to consider to assign blame, saying generalised comment like that would be a clear indication that person know nothing on the situation. Simply because if investigation they are involved in is that generalise, there WILL NOT BE a need to start an investigation in the first place.

So, for me, your opinion worth nothing.

Stop spreading lies. They crew were not asleep. US is on propaganda overdrive to distort truth.

"In the first detailed account from one of those directly involved, the cargo ship's captain said the ACX Crystal had signaled with flashing lights after the Fitzgerald "suddenly" steamed on to a course to cross its path."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-navy-asia-exclusive-idUSKBN19H13C

 

[Beast]

It is good to reveal their degree of stupidity.


You're confusing the US and your mama

Your post is reported.

Yeah, you will know, as much as every other Chinese member here that seemingly can see into future. More so than people that actually was there. Seemingly the Chinese member here know a lot of information that have not been release to be "Very Confident" this is one side's fault. I know someone who actually talked to the crew of Fitzgerald and many of them don't even know why they crashed, and yuet the Chinese member here seemingly know a lot more than people that was there.

one thing tho, if Everyone is asleep on ACX crystal and do not post look out then it would be totally be ACX crystal fault as per IMO law no matter what her status and/or what the other party do. IMO law explicitly require look out and pilot to be posted 24 hours a day and 7 days a week when you are in voyage. If ACX Crystal crews is asleep at that time, it does not matter where Fitzgerald is hit, they will be at fault. It's just like a plane crash into another plane, even when the plane that is supposed to have give way did not give, if the plane that is on the right does not have anyone in their cockpit while flying in autopilot, then that plane is at fault, regardless of the other action. That much I know as myself is a Private Pilot.

No Official (Which involved in the investigation) would say that to generalise a situation like that, because a lot of detail have to consider to assign blame, saying generalised comment like that would be a clear indication that person know nothing on the situation. Simply because if investigation they are involved in is that generalise, there WILL NOT BE a need to start an investigation in the first place.

So, for me, your opinion worth nothing.

Same as your post is nothing but one sided blind defending of US at all cost. Your selecting reasoning and many stupid justification like acting like a coward when you failed to take a bet with me on the outcome of USS Fitzgerald. Bragging so much and yet no action. More or less speaks on your confidence and the real outcome of collision

 

[jhungary]

Stop spreading lies. They crew were not asleep. US is on propaganda overdrive to distort truth.

"In the first detailed account from one of those directly involved, the cargo ship's captain said the ACX Crystal had signaled with flashing lights after the Fitzgerald "suddenly" steamed on to a course to cross its path."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-navy-asia-exclusive-idUSKBN19H13C

Yeah, the master of the cargo ship said he gave warning, then it must have been correct and true, because there are no such things exist in the Captain mind to cover his own arse.

Do tell me if the ship is staffed, and proper lookout was post, how they crashed? You cannot "Suddenly" steam on to a course to cross it path in a 9600 tons destroyer, you most certain do not just flash light and signal (AT NIGHT no less?? How are people going to see the signal at night??), but blare horn (three short blast for collision course) and make course change yourselves, telling anyone "they flashed their light and signalled " does not mean anything. Also how come it take Crystal 34 minutes to turn back to the crash site and 1 hour and 6 minutes to report the incident?

lol, you ever heard of the word "Discrepancy", facts is facts, I don't really care what the captain said, if you involved in a car crash, everyone would say it's not their fault, lol, you need to put the testimony and the fact to see if that fits, and what the Captain of Crystal said and the fact DOES NOT FIT.

Your post is reported.


Same as your post is nothing but one sided blind defending of US at all cost. Your selecting reasoning and many stupid justification like acting like a coward when you failed to take a bet with me on the outcome of USS Fitzgerald. Bragging so much and yet no action. More or less speaks on your confidence and the real outcome of collision

As I said, if you are willing to bet with me on whether or not Xi will accept he is gay as I claim, I will bet with you on the USS Fitzgerald.

Any sane person would wait for all the facts and statement, you can go ahead and guess whatever you want, does not mean your guess is backed up by facts, that's just your fantasy.

 

[Beast]

Yeah, the master of the cargo ship said he gave warning, then it must have been correct and true, because there are no such things exist in the Captain mind to cover his own arse.

Do tell me if the ship is staffed, and proper lookout was post, how they crashed? You cannot "Suddenly" steam on to a course to cross it path in a 9600 tons destroyer, you most certain do not just flash light and signal (AT NIGHT no less?? How are people going to see the signal at night??), but blare horn (three short blast for collision course) and make course change yourselves, telling anyone "they flashed their light and signalled " does not mean anything. Also how come it take Crystal 34 minutes to turn back to the crash site and 1 hour and 6 minutes to report the incident?

lol, you ever heard of the word "Discrepancy", facts is facts, I don't really care what the captain said, if you involved in a car crash, everyone would say it's not their fault, lol, you need to put the testimony and the fact to see if that fits, and what the Captain of Crystal said and the fact DOES NOT FIT.



As I said, if you are willing to bet with me on whether or not Xi will accept he is gay as I claim, I will bet with you on the USS Fitzgerald.

Any sane person would wait for all the facts and statement, you can go ahead and guess whatever you want, does not mean your guess is backed up by facts, that's just your fantasy.

The only person who believe you are sane are yourself. Stop your delusion. I am asking you to bet on USS Fitzgerald collision outcome completely based on US defense final outcome report and you ask for an irrelevant bet to include stupid thing like asking whether Xi is gay? Stop making a fool of yourself and indeed wasting bandwidth here

I know why you want to included some stupid thing in the bet becos you are 100 percent confident you will lose the bet solely based on outcome of USS Fitzgerald and you have 0 percent fate in USN

 

[jhungary]

The only person who believe you are sane are yourself. Stop your delusion. I am asking you to bet on USS Fitzgerald collision outcome completely based on US defense final outcome report and you ask for an irrelevant bet to include stupid thing like asking whether Xi is gay? Stop making a fool of yourself and indeed wasting bandwidth here

Yeah and only a fool would say I bet you on the final outcome.

You are asking me to bet on a speculation, a bet you want to make, first of all, I don't really care about how USS Fitzgerald is at fault or not, I wasn't even in the Navy, there are no sentimental value to me to bet, second of all, I have already state that the Captain of the USS Fitzgerald is at fault for sleeping in is quarter, regardless of what the circumstance of the crash and the liability, so what you want me to bet on? The argument I made is not Fitzgerald has no fault at all, but rather not solely to blame for the incident. When 2 ship crashed, both ship have to be at fault to crash, because in a good night, both should have saw each other coming and being able to avoided it.

On the other hand, if ACX Crystal crew is all asleep, that mean it cause the crash, and Fitzgerald responsibility lies is not able to avoid the Crystal.

Grow up, even tho if I bet and lose, would you really think I will go just this easily??

So I say here again, if you are willing to bet on Xi being Gay, I am okay to bet on the Fitzgerald.

 

[Submariner]

Fitz is fine. A bit of paint and a good polish and she'll be back to service right quick.

And while Fitz is out of action for a bit, a new gal gladly sets into her role.

That's far from the worst damage a US warship has ever come back from. Stark, Cole, Enterprise, Forrestal, they all suffered worse and came out just fine.

You don't actually think any of the anti American trolls care about a pesky detail like that do you?

I think @Penguin makes a good point though. Most people here have made up their mind and wont listen to, or even entertain counterarguments, they have their stance and are sticking to it. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't provide counter-viewpoints either, or counterarguments. For the sake of clarity and in the interest of furthering understanding for those that are willing to lend an ear to other views.

Most here however don't seem interested in doing that.

 

[powastick]

Yeah and only a fool would say I bet you on the final outcome.

You are asking me to bet on a speculation, a bet you want to make, first of all, I don't really care about how USS Fitzgerald is at fault or not, I wasn't even in the Navy, there are no sentimental value to me to bet, second of all, I have already state that the Captain of the USS Fitzgerald is at fault for sleeping in is quarter, regardless of what the circumstance of the crash and the liability, so what you want me to bet on? The argument I made is not Fitzgerald has no fault at all, but rather not solely to blame for the incident. When 2 ship crashed, both ship have to be at fault to crash, because in a good night, both should have saw each other coming and being able to avoided it.

On the other hand, if ACX Crystal crew is all asleep, that mean it cause the crash, and Fitzgerald responsibility lies is not able to avoid the Crystal.

Grow up, even tho if I bet and lose, would you really think I will go just this easily??

So I say here again, if you are willing to bet on Xi being Gay, I am okay to bet on the Fitzgerald.

" The crew of the USS Fitzgerald was likely at fault in the warship's collision with a Philippine cargo ship in June and had not been paying attention to their surroundings, according to initial findings in an investigation, a U.S. defense official told Reuters on Friday.

"There was not a lot that went right leading up to the crash. There were a string of errors, but they did a lot after the collision to save lives and the ship," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The official said that in addition to crew members not paying attention to their surroundings, they did not take action until it was too late.

While the investigation is not complete, the official said crew members had given statements and radar data had been gathered, and it was unlikely the findings would change."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-navy-idUSKBN1A62FX

 

[Jlaw]

[]
PDF "professional" fakers .

 

[jhungary]

" The crew of the USS Fitzgerald was likely at fault in the warship's collision with a Philippine cargo ship in June and had not been paying attention to their surroundings, according to initial findings in an investigation, a U.S. defense official told Reuters on Friday.

"There was not a lot that went right leading up to the crash. There were a string of errors, but they did a lot after the collision to save lives and the ship," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The official said that in addition to crew members not paying attention to their surroundings, they did not take action until it was too late.

While the investigation is not complete, the official said crew members had given statements and radar data had been gathered, and it was unlikely the findings would change."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-navy-idUSKBN1A62FX

Very convincingly leaving out the rest of the article

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-navy-idUSKBN1A62FX

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The crew of the USS Fitzgerald was likely at fault in the warship's collision with a Philippine cargo ship in June and had not been paying attention to their surroundings, according to initial findings in an investigation, a U.S. defense official told Reuters on Friday.

Multiple U.S. and Japanese investigations are under way into how the USS Fitzgerald, a guided missile destroyer, and the much larger ACX Crystal container ship collided in clear weather south of Tokyo Bay in the early hours of June 17.

The collision tore a gash below the Fitzgerald's waterline, killing seven sailors in what was the greatest loss of life on a U.S. Navy vessel since the USS Cole was bombed in Yemen's Aden harbor in 2000.

"There was not a lot that went right leading up to the crash. There were a string of errors, but they did a lot after the collision to save lives and the ship," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The official said that in addition to crew members not paying attention to their surroundings, they did not take action until it was too late.

While the investigation is not complete, the official said crew members had given statements and radar data had been gathered, and it was unlikely the findings would change.

A U.S. Navy spokeswoman said the investigation was in the early stages and it was premature to speculate on the causes.

The incident has spurred a number of investigations, including those by the U.S. Navy and a probe by the United States Coast Guard on behalf of the National Transportation Safety Board. The Japan Transport Safety Board and the Philippines government are conducting separate investigations.

Last month Reuters reported that an account of the incident by the Philippine cargo ship's captain said that the U.S. warship had failed to respond to warning signals or take evasive action before the collision.

As said before, anyone could have said that, the people who are investigating it have no comment, making everything else conjecture and hearsay at this moment, people have been saying US Ship is at fault from the beginning because they simply glancing on the fact that Fitzgerald is being hit on starboard, and as I explained many time, that alone does not mean the US ship is at fault.

But again, hard to imagine you guys will make any decision before such report is done, don't think you EVER will. so, it's a moot point

 

[powastick]

Very convincingly leaving out the rest of the article

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-navy-idUSKBN1A62FX

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The crew of the USS Fitzgerald was likely at fault in the warship's collision with a Philippine cargo ship in June and had not been paying attention to their surroundings, according to initial findings in an investigation, a U.S. defense official told Reuters on Friday.

Multiple U.S. and Japanese investigations are under way into how the USS Fitzgerald, a guided missile destroyer, and the much larger ACX Crystal container ship collided in clear weather south of Tokyo Bay in the early hours of June 17.

The collision tore a gash below the Fitzgerald's waterline, killing seven sailors in what was the greatest loss of life on a U.S. Navy vessel since the USS Cole was bombed in Yemen's Aden harbor in 2000.

"There was not a lot that went right leading up to the crash. There were a string of errors, but they did a lot after the collision to save lives and the ship," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The official said that in addition to crew members not paying attention to their surroundings, they did not take action until it was too late.

While the investigation is not complete, the official said crew members had given statements and radar data had been gathered, and it was unlikely the findings would change.

A U.S. Navy spokeswoman said the investigation was in the early stages and it was premature to speculate on the causes.

The incident has spurred a number of investigations, including those by the U.S. Navy and a probe by the United States Coast Guard on behalf of the National Transportation Safety Board. The Japan Transport Safety Board and the Philippines government are conducting separate investigations.

Last month Reuters reported that an account of the incident by the Philippine cargo ship's captain said that the U.S. warship had failed to respond to warning signals or take evasive action before the collision.

As said before, anyone could have said that, the people who are investigating it have no comment, making everything else conjecture and hearsay at this moment, people have been saying US Ship is at fault from the beginning because they simply glancing on the fact that Fitzgerald is being hit on starboard, and as I explained many time, that alone does not mean the US ship is at fault.

But again, hard to imagine you guys will make any decision before such report is done, don't think you EVER will. so, it's a moot point

The person who leak it just shows US intention, they are not going to pay for the mistake. You can't twist radar data from Japan. The "spokesperson" is just parroting the official lines. You must thinking everyone in PDF easily deceived.

 

[jhungary]

The person who leak it just shows US intention, they are not going to pay for the mistake. You can't twist radar data from Japan. The "spokesperson" is just parroting the official lines. You must thinking everyone in PDF easily deceived.

I want to know if spoke person is just parroting the official line, then what is the job for the unnamed government official?

First of all, we cannot be sure that "official" have any access to the case, nor can we be assured that "official" was even well versed in Maritime law or even a Lawyer to begin with, we don't even know the gender, claiming "official said" is meaningless.

Second of all, Radar Data is not twisted, it was open to public, you can download a set of ALS data from ALS tracking website yourselves, nobody can manipulate public data. It would be caught and expose pretty quick.

Third of all, you, as in yourself, did not know anything about the US military, making your comment is the last person to be taken into account seriously, I don't think you know how to or have been captaining a ship or aircraft either, making you, yourself uncredited, which mean for all I care, your word is Bullshit.

For what I think, people should wait for the official account to be release before commenting on the issue, like many have in the recent Philando Castille case when quite a few "official" claim the police officer would be found guilty, but in the end, he was found not guilty of shooting dead Castille. So, it's naïve and borderline stupid to comment on a case you know nothing about, before any creditable evidence was show.

I am not going to stop you from making an arse out of yourselves (to all Chinese PDF member) so I am not going to stop you from calling this before anything is released. But in the end, you will look like a fool, and that is for certain.

 

[powastick]

I want to know if spoke person is just parroting the official line, then what is the job for the unnamed government official?

First of all, we cannot be sure that "official" have any access to the case, nor can we be assured that "official" was even well versed in Maritime law or even a Lawyer to begin with, we don't even know the gender, claiming "official said" is meaningless.

Second of all, Radar Data is not twisted, it was open to public, you can download a set of ALS data from ALS tracking website yourselves, nobody can manipulate public data. It would be caught and expose pretty quick.

Third of all, you, as in yourself, did not know anything about the US military, making your comment is the last person to be taken into account seriously, I don't think you know how to or have been captaining a ship or aircraft either, making you, yourself uncredited, which mean for all I care, your word is Bullshit.

For what I think, people should wait for the official account to be release before commenting on the issue, like many have in the recent Philando Castille case when quite a few "official" claim the police officer would be found guilty, but in the end, he was found not guilty of shooting dead Castille. So, it's naïve and borderline stupid to comment on a case you know nothing about, before any creditable evidence was show.

I am not going to stop you from making an arse out of yourselves (to all Chinese PDF member) so I am not going to stop you from calling this before anything is released. But in the end, you will look like a fool, and that is for certain.

Stop lying, Japan hasn't make the radar data public and only the ACX Crystal data were available. Show me the radar then. You are only here to troll Chinese PDF members. You already know USS Fitzgerald was at fault, but some reason pretend and deceive. Your reputation is terrible in PDF.

 

[Penguin]

Your post is reported.

Same as your post is nothing but one sided blind defending of US at all cost. Your selecting reasoning and many stupid justification like acting like a coward when you failed to take a bet with me on the outcome of USS Fitzgerald. Bragging so much and yet no action. More or less speaks on your confidence and the real outcome of collision

Yadayadayada
(yours too)

So which one is dumber indian submarine exploding on its own or highly trained and professional american sailors ramming their ship to a cargo vessel. Seems like a tie for me.

Pictures show clearly ACX Crystal rammed into Fitzgerald, and not the other way around (unlike CX Crystal, Fitzgerald has no damage to its bow area).

Very convincingly leaving out the rest of the article

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-navy-idUSKBN1A62FX

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The crew of the USS Fitzgerald was likely at fault in the warship's collision with a Philippine cargo ship in June and had not been paying attention to their surroundings, according to initial findings in an investigation, a U.S. defense official told Reuters on Friday.

Multiple U.S. and Japanese investigations are under way into how the USS Fitzgerald, a guided missile destroyer, and the much larger ACX Crystal container ship collided in clear weather south of Tokyo Bay in the early hours of June 17.

The collision tore a gash below the Fitzgerald's waterline, killing seven sailors in what was the greatest loss of life on a U.S. Navy vessel since the USS Cole was bombed in Yemen's Aden harbor in 2000.

"There was not a lot that went right leading up to the crash. There were a string of errors, but they did a lot after the collision to save lives and the ship," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The official said that in addition to crew members not paying attention to their surroundings, they did not take action until it was too late.

While the investigation is not complete, the official said crew members had given statements and radar data had been gathered, and it was unlikely the findings would change.

A U.S. Navy spokeswoman said the investigation was in the early stages and it was premature to speculate on the causes.

The incident has spurred a number of investigations, including those by the U.S. Navy and a probe by the United States Coast Guard on behalf of the National Transportation Safety Board. The Japan Transport Safety Board and the Philippines government are conducting separate investigations.

Last month Reuters reported that an account of the incident by the Philippine cargo ship's captain said that the U.S. warship had failed to respond to warning signals or take evasive action before the collision.

As said before, anyone could have said that, the people who are investigating it have no comment, making everything else conjecture and hearsay at this moment, people have been saying US Ship is at fault from the beginning because they simply glancing on the fact that Fitzgerald is being hit on starboard, and as I explained many time, that alone does not mean the US ship is at fault.

But again, hard to imagine you guys will make any decision before such report is done, don't think you EVER will. so, it's a moot point

Plus, there are 4 investigations, and we have yet to see how much in agreement the conclusions of all those investigations will be ....