USA ‘unclear’ whether drone targeted Mansour in Pakistan

[Devil Soul]

Unclear whether Mullah Mansour was killed in Pakistan or Afghanistan: US
By News Desk
Published: May 24, 2016
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US Department of State Deputy Spokesperson Mark C. Toner. PHOTO: REUTERS

The United States on Tuesday said it is still unclear which side of the Pakistan-Afghanistan border Taliban leader Mullah Akhtar Mansour was killed in.

When asked about the precise location of the drone strike on the late Taliban supremo, US State Department spokesperson Mike Toner said, “I don’t have any more clarity of where the actual strike took place. What I can say is that it was in that border region. I just can’t say on which side of the border it was.”

Pakistan seeks ‘clarification’ of US strike on Afghan Taliban leader

Responding to a question if he was “doubting the claim from Pakistan that it was in their territory,” Toner said, “The Pakistani government is able to speak on behalf of itself. I’m not going to doubt its claim. I’m just saying the information that we… are willing to share is that it was in the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region.”

Toner went on to say the US will continue striking terrorists posing threats to US forces on Pakistani territory. “We certainly do respect Pakistan’s territorial integrity, but as we’ve said before, we will carry out strikes to remove terrorists who are actively pursuing and planning and directing attacks against US forces,” the US State Department spokesperson upheld.

Frequent traveler Mullah Mansour used Pakistan airports

Massive protests were staged throughout Pakistan against the violation of its sovereignty following the US drone strike on its soil. When asked if the latest developments would impact US relations with Pakistan, Toner said, “We have been in touch with them, obviously. We’ve talked about this airstrike. We continue to talk to them about how we can collaborate and cooperate on rooting out these terrorist organizations and these organizations or these groups that continue to use Pakistan’s territory to carry out attacks.”

The Afghan Taliban chief was killed in a drone attack near Quetta on Saturday, in what was the US’ first-ever drone strike in Balochistan.

US President Barack Obama has hailed the killing of Mullah Akhtar Mansoor as an ‘important milestone’ in efforts to restore peace in Afghanistan, but Pakistani officials believe it was a ‘big gamble’ by the United States that could change the dynamics of the Afghan conflict.

While official reaction from Islamabad has so far been muted, hectic consultations are under way both at the level of the security establishment and the Foreign Office to chart out a future course.

Pakistan summons US envoy over drone strike inside territory

Background discussions with security and foreign policy officials show that the American move to eliminate the Afghan Taliban chief is ‘fraught with danger’. The immediate risk, according to the officials, is that Afghanistan might slip into chaos as the insurgent group might have lost its chief but not its capability to mount large-scale deadly attacks.

There is also danger of factionalism in the Taliban movement. And in that scenario, rival ultra-extremist groups such as the Islamic State might gain ground – something that would not favour Afghanistan, Pakistan or even the United States, cautioned officials.

Pakistan is frustrated because Mansoor was targeted at a time when efforts were under way to bring the Taliban to the negotiating table. Although officials admitted the Taliban have so far been unresponsive to the quartet-backed peace initiative, this did not mean the group refused to engage in the future.

Who will succeed Mullah Mansoor?

In fact, Mansoor favoured talks. “It was Mullah Mansoor who had sent his emissaries to Murree in July last year,” revealed another official. “If he [Mansoor] did not favour talks, then why would he send his emissaries?”

Pakistan also felt ‘betrayed’ and ‘deceived’ by the US as according to officials there was an understanding among quartet members that the Taliban leaders would be given a safe passage for travelling. Many Taliban leaders had travelled on Pakistani documents to Doha and other countries – and the US authorities knew that.

The travel history of Muhammad Wali, who was believed to be Mansoor, showed he was a frequent traveller. A copy of his travel history obtained from immigration authorities shows Mansoor had travelled to Iran, Dubai, Karachi and even Bahrain over the past few years.

 

[Devil Soul]

US ‘unclear’ whether drone targeted Mansour in Pakistan
DAWN.COM — UPDATED ABOUT AN HOUR AGO
WASHINGTON: United States (US) State Department spokesman Mark Toner in a press briefing on Monday denied having knowledge of where exactly Taliban chief Mullah Mansour was eliminated.

Responding to a question regarding which side of the Pak-Afghan border Mansour was targeted on, the spokesman said: “I don’t have any more clarity of where the actual strike took place. What I can say was in that border region. I just can’t say on which side of the border it was.”

When asked whether he was “doubting the claim from Pakistan that it was in their territory,” Toner said:

“The Pakistani government is able to speak on behalf of itself. I’m not going to doubt its claim. I’m just saying the information that we... are willing to share is that it was in the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region.”

Toner went on to say the US will continue striking terrorists posing threats to US forces.

“We certainly do respect Pakistan’s territorial integrity, but as we’ve said before, we will carry out strikes to remove terrorists who are actively pursuing and planning and directing attacks against US forces,” Toner said.

Afghan Taliban chief Mullah Mansour was killed in a drone attack near Quetta on Saturday, in what was the US’ first-ever drone strike in Balochistan, which has long been a ‘red line’ for Pakistan.

The Pakistani government has condemned drone strikes all along, terming them a violation of territorial sovereignty, and had already conveyed a set of ‘red lines’ to the US in 2010, specifically mentioning attacks in Balochistan as a no-go.

Know more: US strike crosses ‘red line’ on Balochistan

Toner said the US government will continue to talk to Pakistan about “how we can collaborate and cooperate on rooting out these terrorist organisations... which continue to use Pakistan’s territory to carry out attacks”.

The strike, he said, “sends a clear message that those who target our people and the Afghan people are not going to be given a safe haven”, adding that the Taliban’s ‘only option’ is to “pursue a peaceful resolution to the conflict”.

Political motive to attack?
The question of whether the Taliban will cooperate in peace talks after their leader's killing came up during the briefing, to which Toner said: “I think it presents them with a clear choice.”

But when asked whether the US had a political motive behind influencing the talks, he said the primary reason behind the strike was “removing someone who was actively pursuing, planning, carrying out attacks against US and Afghan forces in the region”.

Also read: Mansour’s death message for Taliban, says Obama

“There’s ways to engage and identify the fact that you’re willing to engage in a peaceful way. And, frankly, Mansour showed absolutely no predilection towards engaging in any kind of peaceful political process.”

Impact on the Taliban
The Taliban has ‘by no means’ been defeated, Toner said. “If you're going to carry out attacks, if you're going to lead attacks against our forces and against Afghanistan’s forces, then you’re going to be targeted and you’re not going to have safe haven,” he said.

The drone strike, he said, sent the message to the Taliban to decide what their future will be and whether they can be part of “a peaceful political future for Afghanistan”.

“There is a path towards that. They can sit down with the Afghan government and begin negotiations and talks. We’ve encouraged that; we support an Afghan-owned, Afghan-led process.”

 

[sparten]

Who thinks there has been a screw up somewhere in the narrative which everyone is now scrambling to fix.

1) Sartaj tells Afghan Taliban that they need to return to the table.................or else.
2) A guy who is travelling on a Pakistani CNIC and Passport, who has apparently been travelling to the Emirates and Bahrain, which are virtual US Colonies anyway. You get fingerprinted and photographed. Thetre is no way the U.S did not know that who he was and where he was travelling.
3) He gets killed in the triborder area of Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran. In broad daylight. No one says anything until later.
4) Its Obama's White House who reveals it, and says they are not sure its him.
5) News of tne guys travels are revealed, pics at airport, which cast doubt on the "hiding in caves" theory. Obama mouths off on Pakistan. As Iran, UAE, Bahrain get implicated............Western media is surprisingly silent.

6) Claims that we don't no its him, and now no idea where he was killed. GHQ is silent.

Yeah, something went wrong somewhere.................my money is on Obama political appointees mouthing of before they were supposed to (a common complaint by former military members of his administration) leading to this debacle.

Something is very fishy.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

2) A guy who is travelling on a Pakistani CNIC and Passport, who has apparently been travelling to the Emirates and Bahrain, which are virtual US Colonies anyway. You get fingerprinted and photographed. Thetre is no way the U.S did not know that who he was and where he was travelling.

Something is very fishy.

Well according to this forum every country on this planet except Syria, Iran, China, Russia, and North Korea are virtual US colonies. That's a lot of territory to keep track of.

Besides a colony is a colony. Maybe it was easier to knock him off in Afghanistan/Pakistan border than in the Middle East.

 

[sparten]

Lol.
However, does it make much sense that a guy who is a known Taliban leader for years, whose facial features and biometric info, the US no doubt spent lots of effort in finding would not raise a flag at a border................ have you traveled recently? Having a name or slightly matching profile to someone on a list is enough to get you taken aside. Do you really think he never triggered any sensors at Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain (you know, the location of the US Fifth Fleet), even if you are of the "Pakis are evil incompetents" crowd, or that the US does not have an intel sharing agreement with these countries?
Its not like Bin Laden or Whitney Bugler, hiding in plain site and avoiding dealing with authorities or electronic databases by not driving, using credit cards, the guy traveled internationally.

Plus, why would it be easier to take him out there then in the ME, where you could simply arrest him, glean as much information as you could and then use that to advantage.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

From last few days the American media and their allies specially India are barking like mad dogs about Pakistan. NOW WHAT? American are not CLEAR where this man was targeted? The whole episode of Mullah Mansoor was to frame Pakistan but like every murder and robbery leave the trail, the sh|t start to hit the fan after the discovery of Iranian connection. Mark my words, just keep a hawk eye over Iran from now on. Mullahs of Qom have sold their soul to devil in this west-Iran deal. There is more to it that meets the eye. As for Pakistan, we need to go in full rouge mode now, it is just the neighborhood we live in unfortunately. Like you wont survive in rough areas without being rough and tough, this is the reality of our region. Seal the borders from Iran to Afghanistan, India. Mine it if needed be.

It has and always been Pakistan at target silly, as the late General Gul used to say "Thekana Afghanistan aur Nishana Pakistan". We can safely add Iran to this.

Lastly, the end time prophecies in Islam got a very interesting fact which is ignored by Pakistanis in general. This has direct bearing on us and our national security. We will be foolish to ignore it as this will happen right in our neighborhood. Whatever is happening between Iran and west, just understand the following Hadees with open mind.

Saheeh Muslim – Book 041, Number 7034:

Anas b. Malik reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The Daajjal would be followed by seventy thousand Jews of Isfahan wearing Persian shawls.

 

[Osiris]

From last few days the American media and their allies specially India are barking like mad dogs about Pakistan. NOW WHAT? American are not CLEAR where this man was targeted? The whole episode of Mullah Mansoor was to frame Pakistan but like every murder and robbery leave the trail, the sh|t start to hit the fan after the discovery of Iranian connection. Mark my words, just keep a hawk eye over Iran from now on. Mullahs of Qom have sold their soul to devil in this west-Iran deal. There is more to it that meets the eye. As for Pakistan, we need to go in full rouge mode now, it is just the neighborhood we live in unfortunately. Like you wont survive in rough areas without being rough and tough, this is the reality of our region. Seal the borders from Iran to Afghanistan, India. Mine it if needed be.

It has and always been Pakistan at target silly, as the late General Gul used to say "Thekana Afghanistan aur Nishana Pakistan". We can safely add Iran to this.

Lastly, the end time prophecies in Islam got a very interesting fact which is ignored by Pakistanis in general. This has direct bearing on us and our national security. We will be foolish to ignore it as this will happen right in our neighborhood. Whatever is happening between Iran and west, just understand the following Hadees with open mind.

Saheeh Muslim – Book 041, Number 7034:

Anas b. Malik reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The Daajjal would be followed by seventy thousand Jews of Isfahan wearing Persian shawls.

What ?? news says, wether he was killed in Pakistan or Afghanistan, as he was killed in the border area. And that too, was said, just to provide Pakistan with some face saving.

Mullah is dead, Obama said so, Afghanistan says so, hell even Taliban has accepted it.

His burnt body was brought to a hospital in Balochistan, along with his driver's and his Pakistani passport.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

What ?? news says, wether he was killed in Pakistan or Afghanistan, as he was killed in the border area. And that too, was said, just to provide Pakistan with some face saving.

Mullah is dead, Obama said so, Afghanistan says so, hell even Taliban has accepted it.

His burnt body was brought to a hospital in Balochistan, along with his driver's and his Pakistani passport.

Kid, understand what yanks are saying. They are NOT clear where this man died. Yanks will not spare any opportunity to back bite Pakistan , hell they did this act of aggression in daylight! Spare us the face saving non sense! There are many things that could happen, the most probable would be that he died inside Afghanistan and to frame Pakistan this drama of drone strike was conducted. Pakistan was in no mood to take this non sense like we did with OBL topi drama and now yanks are getting edgy.

Watch the space, there will be many suprises as we move forward with investigation.

 

[Osiris]

Kid, understand what yanks are saying. They are NOT clear where this man died. Yanks will not spare any opportunity to back bite Pakistan , hell they did this act of aggression in daylight! Spare us the face saving non sense! There are many things that could happen, the most probable would be that he died inside Afghanistan and to frame Pakistan this drama of drone strike was conducted. Pakistan was in no mood to take this non sense like we did with OBL topi drama and now yanks are getting edgy.

Watch the space, there will be many suprises as we move forward with investigation.

It is unbelievable any one can be so thick.

This is Mullah Akhtar Mansoor

This is his Pakistani passport and Pakistani id card recovered - by Pakistanis.

What is his, passport doing in Pakistan, if he was killed in Afghanistan??

 

[sparten]

What his ID card and passport shows is that he had been travelling regularly in the region including to places where the is a heavy US Intel and military presence, was being checked at passport control and was not caught. Which clearly indicated that the US could not have been ignorant about him and was thus in contact with him or at least indirectly.

Which is why they are backtracking on their original claims, saying they have no idea where he was killed.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

It is unbelievable any one can be so thick.

This is Mullah Akhtar Mansoor

This is his Pakistani passport and Pakistani id card recovered - by Pakistanis.

What is his, passport doing in Pakistan, if he was killed in Afghanistan??

Kid, first understand what the yanks THEMSELVES are saying. First they claimed that he was targeted inside Pakistan and now they are saying they are NOT clear. Do you understand simple English or your are still confused?

Secondly, as we speak, Ch Nisar, the interior minster of Pakistan is having a press conference on this matter. He mentioned that up till now there are no confirmation that the man who was targeted actually carried these documents with him when he was hit. Which implies that it might have been setup to leave these documents near the crime scene as a stage drama. No logic can explain the survival of passport or ID card with the man himself charred beyond recognition. Up till now there is NO confirmation that the man targetted was actually Mullah Mansoor.

And if the man was Mullah Mansoor, then why he wasnt targetted or better captured while he was flying all across the region. Hell he went to Dubai as well! . on the day itself, he was driving from Iran and just entered Pakistan when he was hit. The US drone didnt enter Pakistani airspace.

There is no doubt that it was a stage drama to frame Pakistan. America and its regional allies are caught with their pants down. And now the cover up.

Lastly, if he was killed in Pakistan, do you in your bloody mind think we are dumb to wave his Pakistani passport and NIC card right infront of the world. Its not like we caught the Indian monkey Kulbashan Yadev in our territory with this Indian documents is it ?


http://www.dawn.com/news/1260385/ni...ans-sovereignty-sabotaging-afghan-peace-talks


"The US government said Mullah Mansour was targeted because he was against the peace process." Did they forget that when Afghan Taliban and Afghan government met for talks in Murree, it was Mullah Mansour who was leading the group, said Nisar.


Key points of Chaudhry Nisar’s press conference


• Pakistan cannot confirm Mansour's death without proper scientific/forensic evidence

• Mullah Mansour travelled to many countries, if he was a threat why was he targeted only when in Pakistan?

• The said US approach of killing its enemies “wherever they are” can prove disastrous if other countries start following it too

• US air strike in Balochistan was totally illegal, not acceptable and against the sovereignty and integrity of Pakistan

• The drone did not enter Pakistani territory but fired missile while flying from a neighbouring country



The Murree dialogue was also ruined by the news of Mullah Omer's death and now that we were seeing some hope this incident occurred, “sabotaging the dialogue process”, the minister maintained.


"You cannot expect them to come on talks' table after killing their leader, this killing has put Pakistan in a very difficult situation."


The interior minister asked the US military and civil authorities to come clean about their policies regarding the region. “You can’t initiate peace talks and hope for its success, when on the other side you are following the policy of aggression,” he said.

 

[Osiris]

Kid, first understand what the yanks THEMSELVES are saying. First they claimed that he was targeted inside Pakistan and now they are saying they are NOT clear. Do you understand simple English or your are still confused?

Secondly, as we speak, Ch Nisar, the interior minster of Pakistan is having a press conference on this matter. He mentioned that up till now there are no confirmation that the man who was targeted actually carried these documents with him when he was hit. Which implies that it might have been setup to leave these documents near the crime scene as a stage drama. No logic can explain the survival of passport or ID card with the man himself charred beyond recognition. Up till now there is NO confirmation that the man targetted was actually Mullah Mansoor.

And if the man was Mullah Mansoor, then why he wasnt targetted or better captured while he was flying all across the region. Hell he went to Dubai as well! . on the day itself, he was driving from Iran and just entered Pakistan when he was hit. The US drone didnt enter Pakistani airspace.

There is no doubt that it was a stage drama to frame Pakistan. America and its regional allies are caught with their pants down. And now the cover up.

Lastly, if he was killed in Pakistan, do you in your bloody mind think we are dumb to wave his Pakistani passport and NIC card right infront of the world. Its not like we caught the Indian monkey Kulbashan Yadev in our territory with this Indian documents is it ?


http://www.dawn.com/news/1260385/ni...ans-sovereignty-sabotaging-afghan-peace-talks


"The US government said Mullah Mansour was targeted because he was against the peace process." Did they forget that when Afghan Taliban and Afghan government met for talks in Murree, it was Mullah Mansour who was leading the group, said Nisar.


Key points of Chaudhry Nisar’s press conference


• Pakistan cannot confirm Mansour's death without proper scientific/forensic evidence

• Mullah Mansour travelled to many countries, if he was a threat why was he targeted only when in Pakistan?

• The said US approach of killing its enemies “wherever they are” can prove disastrous if other countries start following it too

• US air strike in Balochistan was totally illegal, not acceptable and against the sovereignty and integrity of Pakistan

• The drone did not enter Pakistani territory but fired missile while flying from a neighbouring country



The Murree dialogue was also ruined by the news of Mullah Omer's death and now that we were seeing some hope this incident occurred, “sabotaging the dialogue process”, the minister maintained.


"You cannot expect them to come on talks' table after killing their leader, this killing has put Pakistan in a very difficult situation."


The interior minister asked the US military and civil authorities to come clean about their policies regarding the region. “You can’t initiate peace talks and hope for its success, when on the other side you are following the policy of aggression,” he said.

While you go in search for elaborate conspiracy theories to cover your shame.

Tell us exactly, how a passport and Pakistani id card which are issued only by Pakistani goverment, end up in Mullah Mansoor's car?

Did American fly in and planted these Pakistani government issued doccuments on him also?

 

[sparten]

While you go in search for elaborate conspiracy theories to cover your shame.

Tell us exactly, how a passport and Pakistani id card which are issued only by Pakistani goverment, end up in Mullah Mansoor's car?

Did American fly in and planted these Pakistani government issued doccuments on him also?

Oh for fucks sake, try and understand.

There are two possibilities.
1) That the guy was actually Mullah Mansoor. Which means that the CNIC and Passport* are actually his and he was targeted. Which means that as it has been shown that he was regular traveller to areas with a huge amount of US intelligence and military infrastructure, meaning that the US cannot have been innocent about him and that they were in contact with him.

or
2) It was not him, then well who the hell exactly was he? And who killed him.

The Americans who yesterday gleefully saying we killed him in Pakistan are now backtracking and saying "err well actually, we have no idea where he was killed", which is obviously bullshit. Because by claiming the guy killed as Mullah Mansoor, they are basically admitting that they are in contact with senior leadership (which no one doubted either but still).

*Surviving documents is/should not be surprising. Explosions, fire and crashes are a bit of a crapshoot as to what exactly survives and how, its normal to see lots of stuff surviving which was in close proximity, I can easily see his documents surviving if they were shielded by something from direct contact with the explosion and fire, for instance seats, other luggage, a body part etc.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Oh for fucks sake, try and understand.

There are two possibilities.
1) That the guy was actually Mullah Mansoor. Which means that the CNIC and Passport* are actually his and he was targeted. Which means that as it has been shown that he was regular traveller to areas with a huge amount of US intelligence and military infrastructure, meaning that the US cannot have been innocent about him and that they were in contact with him.

or
2) It was not him, then well who the hell exactly was he? And who killed him.

The Americans who yesterday gleefully saying we killed him in Pakistan are now backtracking and saying "err well actually, we have no idea where he was killed", which is obviously bullshit. Because by claiming the guy killed as Mullah Mansoor, they are basically admitting that they are in contact with senior leadership (which no one doubted either but still).

*Surviving documents is/should not be surprising. Explosions, fire and crashes are a bit of a crapshoot as to what exactly survives and how, its normal to see lots of stuff surviving which was in close proximity, I can easily see his documents surviving if they were shielded by something from direct contact with the explosion and fire, for instance seats, other luggage, a body part etc.

Watch Ch Nisar press conference. He categorically said that it has NOT been established if the the man killed was actually carrying the documents with him.

Its a clear case of implanted proof by someone on the ground after the incident.

 

[Osiris]

Oh for fucks sake, try and understand.

There are two possibilities.
1) That the guy was actually Mullah Mansoor. Which means that the CNIC and Passport* are actually his and he was targeted. Which means that as it has been shown that he was regular traveller to areas with a huge amount of US intelligence and military infrastructure, meaning that the US cannot have been innocent about him and that they were in contact with him.

or
2) It was not him, then well who the hell exactly was he? And who killed him.

The Americans who yesterday gleefully saying we killed him in Pakistan are now backtracking and saying "err well actually, we have no idea where he was killed", which is obviously bullshit. Because by claiming the guy killed as Mullah Mansoor, they are basically admitting that they are in contact with senior leadership (which no one doubted either but still).

*Surviving documents is/should not be surprising. Explosions, fire and crashes are a bit of a crapshoot as to what exactly survives and how, its normal to see lots of stuff surviving which was in close proximity, I can easily see his documents surviving if they were shielded by something from direct contact with the explosion and fire, for instance seats, other luggage, a body part etc.

Lets consider the second scenario..but first answer this.

This is Pakistani passport of some person 'X'

And this is file photo of another Person, lets call him 'Y'

Use your god given eyes tell us are X and Y, the same people?