US Stealth UAV RQ-170 downed in IRAN

[Vassnti]

Dude, put your ground forces versus our ground forces, just you coward, no allies (your puppet dogs) siding with u. just US and Iran against each other in open battlefield. We will see who runs like a girl to their mothers.
?

Interesting didnt you fight those same Iraqi's for 8 years and get no where yet the yanks went through them like ripe figs through a short grandmother.

 

[IranZamin]

Interesting didnt you fight those same Iraqi's for 8 years and get no where yet the yanks went through them like ripe figs through a short grandmother.

The Iraq that was supported by US and french fighter jets ? lol funny. and can you tell me why they couldnt take over Iran with support they had from US ?

Iraq of 2003 ? ahh, you bribed them, that is not a fight. It is a fight when you take on Iran

 

[Harry_Thomason]

Interesting didnt you fight those same Iraqi's for 8 years and get no where yet the yanks went through them like ripe figs through a short grandmother.

You mean Iran without army (Shah's army was disbanded) fought against at that time powerful Iraq, who was helped by US and Russia, and still managed to defend their country, thats very impressive. Lets see if your NZ with disbanded army would defend successfully country against anyone, let alone powerful alies

Iraq lost against US because of many reasons - weakened by the war with Iran, weakened by sanctions and bombing, etc. None of it applies to Iran, if you look for recent examples - Iran trained and armed Hezbollah kicked Israel's butt - which is on paper BY FAR greater military than some 1000 members of Hezbollah. And you know what? US would have even lesser success against Iran than Israel had against Hezbollah

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Iran vs usa... iran might be caret bombed,their forces destroyed............ but it will be worse than vietnam,iraq,korea,afghanistan all put together,...


Wish GoP had balls like iranian govt.

 

[mastaan]

Einstein, Iran has been under 4 rounds of UN sanctions and a bizallion Euro and American sanctions, We also fought an 8 year war that DESTROYED our infrastructure and set us back a couple of decades.
meanwhile we've been growing. Our GDP has multiplied by 4 times in nominal terms since 2000. 416 billion vs 100 in 2000. Let's compare Iran to KSA (a country exporting 4 times more oil than iran and a country that is under NO sanctions and can trade with virtually any country in the world).
note: higher GDP growth rates since 94 + no recession

Now withh United Kingdom
note: no recession since 94 and many times higher growth rates

conclusion: shut your zionazi face

Abii,

First up, I just want ti clarify that my post is only from an economics standpoint. Nothing to do with Politics in this post.

The charts that you have made give only the half picture and are thus grossly misrepresentative. The GDP growth rates represent only one side of the picture as they are constant rate GDP growth rates. GDP at constant prices is meaningless without knowledge of Inflation. and once you look at it, this is what you see

GDP growth rate:

... http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/gdpcomparison.jpg/

Inflation comparison:

...http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/64/inflationcomparison.jpg/

Now when u look at this, what you will realize that while west has slow down, Iran has actually degrown in the last 15 years because the real value of money has gone down drastically, while the value of GDP growth at constant prices are grown pretty insignificantly. So, you can not say that Iran had a better growth than KSA or UK... That is a misrepresentation.

source of data: Select Country or Country Groups

 

[Abii]

Abii,

First up, I just want ti clarify that my post is only from an economics standpoint. Nothing to do with Politics in this post.

The charts that you have made give only the half picture and are thus grossly misrepresentative. The GDP growth rates represent only one side of the picture as they are constant rate GDP growth rates. GDP at constant prices is meaningless without knowledge of Inflation. and once you look at it, this is what you see

GDP growth rate:

Inflation comparison:

Now when u look at this, what you will realize that while west has slow down, Iran has actually degrown in the last 15 years because the real value of money has gone down drastically, while the value of GDP growth at constant prices are grown pretty insignificantly. So, you can not say that Iran had a better growth than KSA or UK... That is a misrepresentation.

source of data: Select Country or Country Groups

Actually, I used real GDP growth rates
real GDP includes inflation rates

please don't try to teach a business student economics 101, because I promise you will lose

definition of real growth:
"The real economic growth rate builds onto the economic growth rate by taking into account the effect that inflation has on the economy. The real economic growth rate is a "constant dollar" and is therefore a more accurate look at the rate of economic growth because it is not distorted by the effects of extreme inflation or deflation."

Read more: Real Economic Growth Rate Definition

 

[500]

Einstein, Iran has been under 4 rounds of UN sanctions and a bizallion Euro and American sanctions, We also fought an 8 year war that DESTROYED our infrastructure and set us back a couple of decades.
meanwhile we've been growing. Our GDP has multiplied by 4 times in nominal terms since 2000. 416 billion vs 100 in 2000. Let's compare Iran to KSA (a country exporting 4 times more oil than iran and a country that is under NO sanctions and can trade with virtually any country in the world).
note: higher GDP growth rates since 94 + no recession

Now withh United Kingdom
note: no recession since 94 and many times higher growth rates

conclusion: shut your zionazi face

You want UK? In 1979 UK had GNP per capita 3 times more than Iran. Today - about 8 times more.

As for Saudi Arabia - yes its just another retarded state which can only exsport crude oil. Just like Iran. Fully agree here.

 

[Abii]

You want UK? In 1979 UK had GNP per capita 3 times more than Iran. Today - about 8 times more.

As for Saudi Arabia - yes its just another retarded state which can only exsport crude oil. Just like Iran. Fully agree here.

It's official, you're a troll and an idiot
Iran has lost 2 decades to a war and sanctions and is now recovering.
your children will live in a ME where Iran is a nuclear state and a much richer country than Israel.
**** luck, but that's life zionist.

insult all you want

P.S. Iran's debt is less than 10 percent while all euro countries are crasing under debt. Your GB is a bankrupt state. Borrowing money and handing it out to your citizens so they can buy **** is called artificial growth an it will catch up to you. The future of Europe is Greece.

 

[mastaan]

Actually, I used real GDP growth rates
real GDP includes inflation rates

please don't try to teach a business student economics 101, because I promise you will lose

definition of real growth:
"The real economic growth rate builds onto the economic growth rate by taking into account the effect that inflation has on the economy. The real economic growth rate is a "constant dollar" and is therefore a more accurate look at the rate of economic growth because it is not distorted by the effects of extreme inflation or deflation."

Read more: Real Economic Growth Rate Definition

That is a good thing and it is great to be speaking to an educated fellow. And, I completed my business education 6 years ago and have done quiet a bit of work on economic forecasting for energy Industry, and that why I felt as if something was amiss in the numbers you presented... It is not about whose education best... It is about fundamental concepts, like u mentioned Eco 101 (Actually, it's Macro Eco 101 now a days for such stuff from real numbers stand point)... I repeat, i don't intend to demean you, i just saw an error in your assumptions... and I just referred to figures from IMF data for constant price GDP growth and then latch on inflation to it, and have given a link for that. I have updated the graphs again in my original post (sorry, first time I am posting a picture here)... i humbly rest my case

 

[mastaan]

It's official, you're a troll and an idiot
Iran has lost 2 decades to a war and sanctions and is now recovering.
your children will live in a ME where Iran is a nuclear state and a much richer country than Israel.
**** luck, but that's life zionist.

insult all you want

P.S. Iran's debt is less than 10 percent while all euro countries are crasing under debt. Your GB is a bankrupt state. Borrowing money and handing it out to your citizens so they can buy **** is called artificial growth an it will catch up to you. The future of Europe is Greece.

Sir, Debt of 10% or 20 times of countries GDP is a contexual point. It has so many parameters. First is the source and reliability of data. you can not contest the yawning gap in veracity of such data (specially the internal debt and the debt underwritten by govt) from Iran and from UK (which is always under the watchful eyes of its treasury bond holders)... Second, If the actual trading capability of the country is reduced (because of severe sanctions) and the home based growth is not enough to fuel further growth, in the long run, the country can not grow beyond a point... Exports and Imports .... that is the exact reason why China grows at such rates today and west economies grew so much after the second WW... Iran on the other hand is sidelined due to sanctions and the severly restricted access to Global money... and that ensures that in the long run, even the bankrupt western countries have higher 'bankability' than an 'isolated' iran...

 

[Abii]

That is a good thing and it is great to be speaking to an educated fellow. And, I completed my business education 6 years ago and have done quiet a bit of work on economic forecasting for energy Industry, and that why I felt as if something was amiss in the numbers you presented... It is not about whose education best... It is about fundamental concepts, like u mentioned Eco 101 (Actually, it's Macro Eco 101 now a days for such stuff from real numbers stand point)... I repeat, i don't intend to demean you, i just saw an error in your assumptions... and I just referred to figures from IMF data for constant price GDP growth and then latch on inflation to it, and have given a link for that. I have updated the graphs again in my original post (sorry, first time I am posting a picture here)... i humbly rest my case

you sure you didn't complete your degree in poli sci? Because you just barfed a whole lot of words on this thread without having any real points.

You said I was using constant rate growth rates, and I said I was not. I'm using real growth rates which includes the rate of inflation. Show me the correct figures from either the World Bank or the IMF if you think I'm using the wrong figures.

note: CIA is not a good source (they also use the IMF but don't update their site so if you want to use them, just go straight to the IMF web site)

note 2: you didn't give me a link to anything. You gave me a link to IMF's website. Show me numbers for Iran.

 

[mastaan]

Actually, I used real GDP growth rates
real GDP includes inflation rates

please don't try to teach a business student economics 101, because I promise you will lose

definition of real growth:
"The real economic growth rate builds onto the economic growth rate by taking into account the effect that inflation has on the economy. The real economic growth rate is a "constant dollar" and is therefore a more accurate look at the rate of economic growth because it is not distorted by the effects of extreme inflation or deflation."

Read more: Real Economic Growth Rate Definition

I took the raw, unadjusted for inflation numbers from IMF database and the definitions were:

Gross domestic product, constant prices (Percent change)
Annual percentages of constant price GDP are year-on-year changes; the base year is country-specific . Expenditure-based GDP is total final expenditures at purchasers’ prices (including the f.o.b. value of exports of goods and services), less the f.o.b. value of imports of goods and services. [SNA 1993]
Select Subjects

For Inflation:
Inflation, average consumer prices (Index)
Expressed in averages for the year, not end-of-period data. A consumer price index (CPI) measures changes in the prices of goods and services that households consume. Such changes affect the real purchasing power of consumers’ incomes and their welfare. As the prices of different goods and services do not all change at the same rate, a price index can only reflect their average movement. A price index is typically assigned a value of unity, or 100, in some reference period and the values of the index for other periods of time are intended to indicate the average proportionate, or percentage, change in prices from this price reference period. Price indices can also be used to measure differences in price levels between different cities, regions or countries at the same point in time. [CPI Manual 2004, Introduction] For euro countries, consumer prices are calculated based on harmonized prices. For more information see http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_OFFPUB/KS-BE-04-001/EN/KS-BE-04-001-EN.PDF.]

Inflation, average consumer prices (Percent change)
Annual percentages of average consumer prices are year-on-year changes.

It at does not certify the negating effect on 'constant prices'

It looks at the Purchaser's price directly and does not adjust for inflation and thus my humble submition on the need to look at inflation data in parallel to it

I think our fundamental disagreement is on "constant dollars"... That is currency converted into dollars and adjust for inflation... To avoid such errors, as I was just looking for trends, I just looked at "constant prices" in "Purchasers prices" i.e. local prices, which have not be calibrated for inflation... absolute raw numbers to give base trend... hope this clarifies

 

[mastaan]

you sure you didn't complete your degree in poli sci? Because you just barfed a whole lot of words on this thread without having any real points.

You said I was using constant rate growth rates, and I said I was not. I'm using real growth rates which includes the rate of inflation. Show me the correct figures from either the World Bank or the IMF if you think I'm using the wrong figures.

note: CIA is not a good source (they also use the IMF but don't update their site so if you want to use them, just go straight to the IMF web site)

note 2: you didn't give me a link to anything. You gave me a link to IMF's website. Show me numbers for Iran.

I don'r refer to CIA factbook for economic research. I trust IMF more often for that... and, I did the Dishonorable degree of an MBA... ... Here we go with the link of what I got as the final numbers... I have already given you definitions in my previous mail and took a shot at explaining (or barfing) the difference in our approaches...

Report for Selected Countries and Subjects

 

[mastaan]

And let's continue this tomorrow... I would love to go down the path of learning some new interesting things... Calling it quits at 1:35AM as weekend is still few days away ... Glad we somehow managed a civil conversation... Cheers

 

[gambit]

Not really. I think US has enough technology to make a smart enough auto-pilot which can do such missions completely without human intervention.

Yes, we do.

Also I did not say it could not broadcast data, it surely can but when in very secret mission it would be in a complete radio silence to avoid detection and would store data only to be accessed when it returns to home base.

Wrong. Completely. But we should expect that from you by now.

First...An F-22 can fly and broadcast everything he has: radar, radio communication, navigation queries, whatever...But this does not mean his radar signature is increased. Radar signature is body specific. ElectroMagnetic (EM) emissions signature, to use the word casually, is a SUMMATION and COMPOSITE of all those transmissions, including radar body signature.

So let us get that distinction out of the way.

What this mean is that the secrecy of an intelligence/surveillance/reconnaissance (ISR) flight is more about its target than it is about keeping the drone's presence secret. It is an understandably false assumption based upon the words 'secret' and 'stealth' that someone who has no military experience would make. But we at least expect the person to acknowledge his ignorance.

For this event, the US control Afghanistan's airspace and the mission had the drone flying in Afghanistan's airspace looking across the borders into Iran. Since the Taliban is nothing but a bunch of religious nutjobs who can only operate mechanical devices and wishes to remain primitive, what is the need for US to maintain EM restrictions? But that does not mean there are no restrictions, only that those restrictions are NOT absolute.

If the mission was EM provocative, meaning we want to elicit some kind of EM transmissions from Iran, then of course we want the Iranians to know the drone was there.

If the mission was surveillance, then it may or may not matter if the drone's presence is known by Iran. We may want to know how Iran RESPOND so we would not care if the drone's presence is known, but if we want to know how Iran CONDUCT daily activities as normal then of course we would have EM restrictions during the mission. There are great differences in learning responses to stimuli versus ordinary conducts. A knowledge of both would give US valuable insights on how the Iranian military would perform in war.

If the mission was reconnaissance, then of course we would have EM restrictions during the mission.

In all cases, each would be classified as 'secret'. Get it? So stop making baseless assumptions. I would think by now you have learned something about making a fool out of one's self blathering in subjects you know nothing about.

The Iraqi insurgents probably were hacking into earlier models of Predators which are not stealth and even in that case, it was actually Iranians that had trained the Iraqi insurgents to do it.

This has been debunked a long time ago. The Predator's video transmission equipment were not capable of sending secured data. Given appropriate gear, intelligent guesses, and some luck, anyone could have 'hacked' into this feed. But the reality was that no real 'hacking' took place.