US & Pakistan Dispute and Tensions over Haqqani group

[53fd]

An anchor on one of the most watched television program enlisted 3 US demands that he says are a reason for this recent media built up against Pakistan:

1- Boots on ground.
2- Control of Gwadar Port.
3- Limit relationship with China.

I don't know how true it is.

Pakistani conspiracy theories at their best. There won't be any foreign troops on the ground in Pakistan, & there isn't even a functioning Gwadar Port yet.

 

[gubbi]

Alright lets cut to the chase, What are these accusations in the media all about? What is the intention behind these accusations in the media? Generally states do not conduct their affairs in the media, so what's this about? Could it be that all these accusations have been brought up in private and did not have traction and that is why we now see them in the media?

If you had read the original article carefully you would have noticed that Adm Mullen along with Sec Panetta were responding to questions posed by a US Senate panel. Its a regular thing on the Capitol where the executive is routinely questioned by the legislature about various topics. Media people report what transpires.

As for all those baying for "evidence", you ought to know that Mullen, Panetta etc dont speak out their 'arses'. They are privy to almost of intelligence files/data and know what they are talking about, especially when reporting to the law makers (US Congress/Senate). Even if they did provide you with evidence, all you can do (most of them atleast) is find "loopholes" or "alternatives" to come up with Grand Conspiracy Theories. Its not worth teasing feeble ignorant minds with 'evidence'.

 

[Rafael]

Pakistani conspiracy theories at their best. There won't be groups on the ground in Pakistan, & there isn't even a functioning Gwadar Port yet.

Like i said, i dont know how true it is. By the way he also stated that US is preparing for a surgical strike in Miranshah!

 

[53fd]

If you had read the original article carefully you would have noticed that Adm Mullen along with Sec Panetta were responding to questions posed by a US Senate panel. Its a regular thing on the Capitol where the executive is routinely questioned by the legislature about various topics. Media people report what transpires.

As for all those baying for "evidence", you ought to know that Mullen, Panetta etc dont speak out their 'arses'. They are privy to almost of intelligence files/data and know what they are talking about, especially when reporting to the law makers (US Congress/Senate). Even if they did provide you with evidence, all you can do (most of them atleast) is find "loopholes" or "alternatives" to come up with Grand Conspiracy Theories. Its not worth teasing feeble ignorant minds with 'evidence'.

If they really had any evidence, they would have taken it to the ICJ & Pakistan would have been declared a terrorist state a long time ago, their UN membership revoked as well. That hasn't happened. The US is not one monolithic body: everyone has their own opinions on what should happen in the WOT. It is no hidden secret that the US Military wants to stay in the region for a long time, & did not welcome the 30k withdrawal announced by Obama. The Senate & the Pentagon have their own viewpoints as well, many Senators & Congressmen feeling the heat, & pressure of the American public to withdraw the troops. Exactly opposite to what the Armed Forces or the CIA wants. Statements such as these (WMDs) were used to get into Iraq as well, we all know how that turned out. These kind of statements are also used for 'public consumption', to garner support from the American public for their cause on the WOT.

 

[DV RULES]

I think it is good to get this out in the open. That is, how much Pakistan does now, and wants to forever, control Afghanistan through its ISI-created terrorist networks. I am not sure how many ISI operatives have been killed in FATA drone strikes, but I have read that it is several. Maybe the USA should have gone after bin Laden with a GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast bomb (MOAB) (colloquially known as the Mother of All Bombs), instead of the much maligned surgical SEAL raid which killed no Pakistanis. Harboring terrorists is equal to being a terrorist.

Issue is so complicated; you can’t spare CIA from this mess where ISI-CIA joined hand in this creation. Now they are not in your interests because you want to eradicate all those elements from Pakistan but on other hand keep TTP, US favoured special group of Taliban (means there is group in Afghanistan supported by US specially to continue killing of innocent people and blame fix on Pakistan), terrorists camps initiated by India, supporting Farsiwans against Pakistan by financing and provide all support in order to make terrorists acts in Pakistan so who is harbouring terrorist?. Haqqani is Afghan and living in Afghanistan so there are Afghan Taliban too who are fighting against ISAF forces so why US cry on Pakistan? US has no importance over Pakistan’s interests but for the sake of India and NATO you are bashing on Pakistan so what you think we have to appreciate or welcome you? Not at all.

Just look on Panetta statement “ US will do everything to save lives of its soldiers in Afghanistan” so tell for what the heck they are in Afghanistan why not they should call these soldiers back to US where they can sleep in comfortable beds? No threat. Afghanistan didn’t called US but it’s US which attacked Afghanistan for their BS security living some god damn 9000 KM away surrounded by water from almost 3 directions. US has damn care what will happened to Afghan people but they are interested to save their own backs. For what soldiers are? To protect Afghan people or protect their selves? All what you are looking for in Pakistan is exist in Afghanistan which could use against you. US/NATO left posts in 2009 to give safe way DIA supported Taliban to Swat, they are pushed backed in Afghanistan by PA, they tried in tribal areaS, PA pushed them back into Afghanistan. Now they are coming to attack border posts with NATO air and land support in Afghan National Army uniforms and US/NATO saints knows nothing? Tell me who is harbouring terrorists?

Pakistan doesn’t want to control Afghanistan but it has also own concerns and interests. So it is our bad luck that we selected most cheap power in our affairs. US did everything to convert war into Pakistan by all means so at last they have left only Haqqani over they can spread their legs but will be in vain.

DO RESPECT GET RESPECT.

Harboring terrorists is equal to being a terrorist
Pakistan nukes are ever ready to eliminate even terrorists.

 

[Solomon2]

If they really had any evidence, they would have taken it to the ICJ & Pakistan would have been declared a terrorist state a long time ago, their UN membership canceled as well. That hasn't happened.

Mmmn, no. It takes a lot to provoke the U.S. into burning an ally. Something (or too many things) has pushed this Administration - the most anti-GoP in history - close to if not over the line.

 

[AkhandIndia]

Issue is so complicated; you can’t spare CIA from this mess where ISI-CIA joined hand in this creation. Now they are not in your interests because you want to eradicate all those elements from Pakistan but on other hand keep TTP, US favoured special group of Taliban (means there is group in Afghanistan supported by US specially to continue killing of innocent people and blame fix on Pakistan), terrorists camps initiated by India, supporting Farsiwans against Pakistan by financing and provide all support in order to make terrorists acts in Pakistan so who is harbouring terrorism?. Haqqani is Afghan and living in Afghanistan so there are Afghan Taliban too who are fighting against ISAF forces so why US cry on Pakistan? US has no importance over Pakistan’s interests but for the sake of India and NATO you are bashing on Pakistan so what you think we have to appreciate or welcome you? Not at all.
Just look on Panetta statement “ US will do everything to save lives of its soldiers in Afghanistan” so tell for what the heck they are in Afghanistan why not they should call these soldiers back to US where they can sleep in comfortable beds? No threat. Afghanistan didn’t called US but it’s US which attacked Afghanistan for their BS security living some god damn 9000 KM surrounded by water from almost 3 directions. US has damn care what will happened to Afghan people but they are interested to save their own backs. For what soldiers are? To protect Afghan people or protect their selves? All what you are looking for in Pakistan is exist in Afghanistan which could use against you. US/NATO left posts in 2009 to give safe way DIA supported Taliban to Swat, they pushed backed in Afghanistan, they tried in tribal area, PA pushed them back into Afghanistan. Now they are coming to attack border posts with NATO air and land support in Afghan National Army uniforms and US/NATO saints knows nothing? Tell me who is harbouring terrorists?
Pakistan doesn’t want to control Afghanistan but it has also own concerns and interests. So it is our bad luck that we selected most cheap power in our affairs. US did everything to convert war into Pakistan by all means so at last they have left only Haqqani over they can spread their legs but will be in vain.

DO RESPECT GET RESPECT.
Harboring terrorists is equal to being a terrorist
Pakistan nukes are ever ready to eliminate even terrorists.

1)you want strategic depth there by having pushtoon supported govt there not the northern alliance supported govt
2)you want them to be dependent on ur self.
3)you want to plant strategic assets which can be used in future against any country there

 

[President Camacho]

El Presidente:

Kiyani has issued a statement in which he says the Afghan army is not ready - that is to say, he wants the US to stay longer -- See, It is not in Pakistan's interest to have ti US depart just yet, the Pakistan side of the Pak-Afghan border is a huge mess and without the US/NATO in Afghanistan, it will be even more of a mess.

It reminds me of that article on "confuzistan", only that it relates to the policies of the state. While the status quo is favorable to Pakistan, it is sure to cause a lot of unease among the Talibans that claim the major stake in the post US Afghanistan government.

So in simplistic terms, while the quickly departing US might leave an Afghanistan too chaotic for Pakistan to handle, a US force that remains in Afghanistan for long is sure to enrage the Taliban that may view the Pakistani Army as siding with the US.

The best outcome favoring the Pakistani Army would be a negotiation between the Afghan government and the Taliban culminating in departure of the US. That way India will have the least possible influence in that region - the primary objective of Pakistan.

The real purpose of the media accusations is get Pakistan to act against the so called Haqqani network -- Why is the Haqqani network so important to the US? What is the relationship between Where the Haqqani network supposedly enjoys sanctuary and the area directly across and the relationship of these areas to the Durand line?

Okay, this is more or less my opinion here: We all know that the US wants a weakened (Pakistan) Army. What we do not know is whether it is the lobbying from Indian side, or the US working on it alone, but

forcing the Pakistani Army to go against the Haqqanis (that were among the greatest beneficiaries of U$ during the Soviet war) will lead to 1) redistribution of resources (of PA) against a powerful militia in another war of attrition 2) sending out a message to all the Talibans that the Pakistani Army can turn its guns on anyone, friend or foe, and 3) reduction in the number of parties that are holding tight to claim their stake in the post-US Afghan government.

Most importantly, while the Mullah Omar Taliban (which even the PA does not trust as much as it used to) may want to keep his center in Pashtun dominated southeast Afghanistan, the Haqqanis would have the influence in the Pashtun area along KPK and Kunar area. Opening up of trade routes to Central Asia through those areas would be impossible without negotiating with the Haqqanis (most loyal to the PA) once they become part of the Afghan government.

 

[karan.1970]

This is like the 15th thread on this - don't litter.

Sir ji.. Its a separate event of Mullen being debriefed by the Senate Panel.. The news article came out a couple hours back.. But feel free to merge.. But from a purely commercial angle, multiple threads talking about a hot international issue, increases the visibility of the forum on google search.. I remember a senior Mod mentioning that when riots in Kashmir were resulting in multiple threads being opened on the topic..

 

[muse]

All this Gwadar stuff is just rubbish -- in fact, such a eventuality would be a huge galvanizing event for the Pakistani bureaucracy and military establishment to organize Pakistan in a truly national effort of liberation - and of course Pakistan are not friendless. So lets not spend any time on this.

Although some in Afghanistan do nurture ambitions to break out of the land locked status of Afghanistan, this is undeniable.

 

[karan.1970]

---Not needed any more-----

 

[lem34]

Mmmn, no. It takes a lot to provoke the U.S. into burning an ally. Something (or too many things) has pushed this Administration - the most anti-GoP in history - close to if not over the line.

Mr Zion lova and pakistani hater you were earlier advocating that pakistanis be pronounced guilty until proven innocents. Your or american lack of evidence is leading on your allegations have lead to you to advocate change your own fundamental beliefs that is that one is innocent until proven guilty. Shame on you,

US & Zionists have no allies you just bribe people or use brute force, no one loves/likes you really and we cant wait until people realise that america is bankrupt morolloy and financially. Now cut copy and paste this and distribute it to your zionist audience

 

[muse]

The best outcome favoring the Pakistani Army would be a negotiation between the Afghan government and the Taliban culminating in departure of the US. That way India will have the least possible influence in that region - the primary objective of Pakistan.

Okay, this is more or less my opinion here: We all know that the US wants a weakened (Pakistan) Army. What we do not know is whether it is the lobbying from Indian side, or the US working on it alone, but

forcing the Pakistani Army to go against the Haqqanis (that were among the greatest beneficiaries of U$ during the Soviet war) will lead to 1) redistribution of resources (of PA) against a powerful militia in another war of attrition 2) sending out a message to all the Talibans that the Pakistani Army can turn its guns on anyone, friend or foe, and 3) reduction in the number of parties that are holding tight to claim their stake in the post-US Afghan government.

Most importantly, while the Mullah Omar Taliban (which even the PA does not trust as much as it used to) may want to keep his center in Pashtun dominated southeast Afghanistan, the Haqqanis would have the influence in the Pashtun area along KPK and Kunar area. Opening up of trade routes to Central Asia through those areas would be impossible without negotiating with the Haqqanis (most loyal to the PA) once they become part of the Afghan government.

India is not a primary concern, in my opinion - see, now that India have turned their back on Iran and Pakistan have begun a process of rapprochement with Iran, the line about the so called "new silk route" and it's implications for Pakistan are clearer.

So, India are welcome in any way they want to be in Afghanistan, short of being a nuisance for Pakistani security - and since the primary thrust of Indian influence in the US plan is to be economic, that interest can only be furthered by creating "new" relations with Pakistan, a new realpolitik in which the status of captive Kashmir will be central -- you don't have to buy this but I would put it you that this is exactly what the thrust of US policy is.

 

[Awesome]

OMG.. cant stop laughing..

A thread about Mullen deposing before Senate panel accusing Pakistan and Haqqani being hand in glove is merged with a 2009 topic of Pakistan rejecting US accusations..

Thread title adjusted before you could type that post - oh and it contained posts of current accusation as well.

---------- Post added at 09:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 PM ----------

Mmmn, no. It takes a lot to provoke the U.S. into burning an ally. Something (or too many things) has pushed this Administration - the most anti-GoP in history - close to if not over the line.

Surprisingly US gets provoked 2 times every decade still and each time its somebody else's fault!

The US never does anything wrong just fights all of the known wars today.

 

[waz]

Its not worth teasing feeble ignorant minds with 'evidence'.

Is this the same "get out" clause that was used when Iraq was invaded?

By the way I fixed your sentence for you.

It's not worth asking feeble, ignorant minds for 'evidence'.

I even corrected the punctuation for you. Feeble minds indeed.....