US, India Sign Defense Pact Countering China's Influence

[Spectre]

America hasn't learnt that as a partner india is wimp , one would have thought they would have learnt it after afghanistan

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread

 

[GURU DUTT]

First you might don't have the issue of with us or against us but Russia and US has.

Secondly With this pact US will be your top partner and Russia is hostile from US.

You are India dude not biryani...so you cant keep everyone happy.




Russia is moving towards China after you are on adventure mission with US.

1.weare in this arena to make best for us not trying to keep every one "happy"

2.we dont deal with others on emotions and empty promises alone but substantial mutual benfits

3.whats wrong if russia is dealing with china too ? we indians dont belave in "either them or us"

4.russiais still the largest defnce partner of india and china is fast becoming top buisness partners with india and indian trade relations are going great with almost all the nations and power blocks of the world ever wonderred why ?

point is every free nation is free to make mutuali benficial trade and other relations with any other freee nation on this planet so dont worry and you are free to make such relations with any one you want

thread is about growing Indo -US realtions which will onli increase in near future...hope you got it right this time

 

[SrNair]

First you might don't have the issue of with us or against us but Russia and US has.

Secondly With this pact US will be your top partner and Russia is hostile from US.

You are India dude not biryani...so you cant keep everyone happy.




Russia is moving towards China after you are on adventure mission with US.

And What do you know about our diplomacy ?
We are the one and only nation that have a good relation with KSA,Iran and Israel .
You are not in a position to teach us diplomacy.


Of Course we are India not Pakistan.
You dont have any idea about the depth of deals between India and Russia.
So dont embarass yourself.

 

[Sipahi]

And What do you know about our diplomacy ?
We are the one and only nation that have a good relation with KSA,Iran and Israel .
You are not in a position to teach us diplomacy.


Of Course we are India not Pakistan.
You dont have any idea about the depth of deals between India and Russia.
So dont embarass yourself.

Indian diplomacy ........ Dont try to sell me your koyle wala manjan ..... which neighbour has good relation with you ????? And dont try to be biryani .... Russian will try to find other markets and pakistan is a good prospect for them ......

Is their any country named Israel ??? i dont know about it .... Iran and KSA are our friends too

 

[SrNair]

Indian diplomacy ........ Dont try to sell me your koyle wala manjan ..... which neighbour has good relation with you ????? And dont try to be biryani .... Russian will try to find other markets and pakistan is a good prospect for them ......

Is their any country named Israel ??? i dont know about it .... Iran and KSA are our friends too

Another example of person sicked with Verbal Diarrehoa .

We have a good relation with our neighbours except Pakistan.
Well Russia knows the difference between the markets of India and nation having GDP equal to the one state of India.

Go and play with kids your own size.
You are not in our league boy.

 

[Sipahi]

Another example of person sicked with Verbal Diarrehoa .

We have a good relation with our neighbours except Pakistan.
Well Russia knows the difference between the markets of India and nation having GDP equal to the one state of India.

Go and play with kids your own size.
You are not in our league boy.

So why you Indian are that much obsessed with Pakistan we are a League ahead... You 2nd Division League

You are the terror exporting nation

In Srilanka ... Tamil Tigers,
In Pakistan... TTP BLA
Bangladesh.... Bangali Public hates you. @monitor
China ..... 1962 war ....

Nepal also loves us I told you dont sell me koyala wala manjan ... I use colgate

 

[Spectre]

I think India should take a deep breath and thoroughly reconsider its foreign policy. USA has screwed up in Iraq, Afganistan, Ukraine, Yemen and Syria. The american public have no appetite for war and it would be a pretty good bet that USA would completely withdraw from Asia in a decade barring some token presence in Japan and Korea. USA at this stage cannot afford any confrontation with China and its looking for proxies to maintain its sphere of influence. There are two options with India

1. It completely aligns itself with USA. In that case we need to have a tough talk with USA on lines of look if you want us to contain China then we need unfettered access to your technology and massive investments in Infrastructure. So that we can challenge China as equals. If USA agrees to its unconditional support then this becomes a valid option.

2. If USA remains non committal to India then we should make it clear that our relationship will be purely transnational all the strategic partnership stuff are just words in the wind. In that case India has to bend and accommodate China as soon as possible. We can't play both sides; we are not Switzerland. A country with India's potential will always be a threat to China unless we are it's friends.

In future China is going to be a pre-eminent power in Asia; we have to resign ourselves to that and if West does not support us fully and unconditionally we can't afford to have a dragon breathing fire at our backs. China will en-circle India economically and millitarily and their is jackshit we can do about it.

Time to get into this great game of thrones was in 2000-2001 and our UPA governement blew any chance we had.

 

[SrNair]

So why you Indian are that much obsessed with Pakistan we are a League ahead... You 2nd Division League

You are the terror exporting nation

In Srilanka ... Tamil Tigers,
In Pakistan... TTP BLA
Bangladesh.... Bangali Public hates you. @monitor
China ..... 1962 war ....

Nepal also loves us I told you dont sell me koyala wala manjan ... I use colgate

Ya .

Now cry me a river

 

[Sipahi]

Ya .

Now cry me a river

 

[Nicky G]

I think India should take a deep breath and thoroughly reconsider its foreign policy. USA has screwed up in Iraq, Afganistan, Ukraine, Yemen and Syria. The american public have no appetite for war and it would be a pretty good bet that USA would completely withdraw from Asia in a decade barring some token presence in Japan and Korea. USA at this stage cannot afford any confrontation with China and its looking for proxies to maintain its sphere of influence. There are two options with India

1. It completely aligns itself with USA. In that case we need to have a tough talk with USA on lines of look if you want us to contain China then we need unfettered access to your technology and massive investments in Infrastructure. So that we can challenge China as equals. If USA agrees to its unconditional support then this becomes a valid option.

2. If USA remains non committal to India then we should make it clear that our relationship will be purely transnational all the strategic partnership stuff are just words in the wind. In that case India has to bend and accommodate China as soon as possible. We can't play both sides; we are not Switzerland. A country with India's potential will always be a threat to China unless we are it's friends.

In future China is going to be a pre-eminent power in Asia; we have to resign ourselves to that and if West does not support us fully and unconditionally we can't afford to have a dragon breathing fire at our backs. China will en-circle India economically and millitarily and their is jackshit we can do about it.

Time to get into this great game of thrones was in 2000-2001 and our UPA governement blew any chance we had.

American public is irrelevant. Corporations control the government. Hillary is a bigger hawk than many Republicans. So if US establishment wanted to go to another war, they would do so.

You overestimate the decline of US, particularly militarily. No one is going to challenge them for decades to come, USN in particular. China is no match at all, particularly the Chinese navy, which is the primary means for force projection.

As for our relation with US, we have little interest in anything more than what helps us. We milk them and their technology by playing up Chinese threat and they try to use us in their Asian pivot. Our relationship is transactional for the most part and we are fine that way.

Actually, China has no appetite for war and its being pushed into a corner in SCS. With their economy slowing down and likely to slow down further, a war along with a likely dissatisfied population will create problems on multiple fronts, which they'd have no way out.

There is no playing China. We are clear what we want. As for encircling, the silly string of pearls is already broken. They will try it again and we will break it further. Now, it time to poke them in SCS and have some fun. Vietnam is significant and we will arm them further.

Ultimately, you can't rely on anyone, US or otherwise. You build your strength and work towards your interests. You use other while making sure what you are used for does not harm you.

 

[Spectre]

American public is irrelevant. Corporations control the government. Hillary is a bigger hawk than many Republicans. So if US establishment wanted to go to another war, they would do so.

You overestimate the decline of US, particularly militarily. No one is going to challenge them for decades to come, USN in particular. China is no match at all, particularly the Chinese navy, which is the primary means for force projection.

As for our relation with US, we have little interest in anything more than what helps us. We milk them and their technology by playing up Chinese threat and they try to use us in their Asian pivot. Our relationship is transactional for the most part and we are fine that way.

Actually, China has no appetite for war and its being pushed into a corner in SCS. With their economy slowing down and likely to slow down further, a war along with a likely dissatisfied population will create problems on multiple fronts, which they'd have no way out.

There is no playing China. We are clear what we want. As for encircling, the silly string of pearls is already broken. They will try it again and we will break it further. Now, it time to poke them in SCS and have some fun. Vietnam is significant and we will arm them further.

Ultimately, you can't rely on anyone, US or otherwise. You build your strength and work towards your interests. You use other while making sure what you are used for does not harm you.

You are right for short term but for long term (>5yrs) however i would like to offer some counter arguments

American public is irrelevant. Corporations control the government. Hillary is a bigger hawk than many Republicans. So if US establishment wanted to go to another war, they would do so.

American public are never irrelevant . USA is a democracy like India so wheels can turn slowly but turn they will. For eg. Do you think American Military war weaker compared to Vietnam? No. Still USA withdrew and let Vietcong win after the body bags started coming and public turned against them. Even the biggest hawk of all Nixon could not prevent it. After Vietnam USA did not participate in another war for 30 years and that too after an attack on their soil which was worse than Peal harbor. Do you think corporations wanted to withdraw from Iraq? Hell no. They had to leave their oil wells which ISIS got and Halliburton lost its lucrative blank check contract. And believe me if their is a shadowy mega corp in USA its Halliburton

As for our relation with US, we have little interest in anything more than what helps us. We milk them and their technology by playing up Chinese threat and they try to use us in their Asian pivot. Our relationship is transactional for the most part and we are fine that way.

I agree, Just saying if USA wants us to contain China we should ask for more, much much more.

Actually, China has no appetite for war and its being pushed into a corner in SCS. With their economy slowing down and likely to slow down further, a war along with a likely dissatisfied population will create problems on multiple fronts, which they'd have no way out.

No, Its China which is testing the US strategy in SCS. Its USA which is getting pushed in the corner. China deliberately started construction MILITARY BASES in SCS and they have stated that they would not back down. What has USA come out with? Just some strong worded statements and surveillance flights. Who the hell even needs surveillance flights when you have satellites. Its not that China is denying the construction. They have openly stated that they are constructing and will continue doing so. Has USA taken any step to stop the construction? Has USA fired upon Chinese Bases when they have openly told USA mind your own business and GTFO.

There is no playing China. We are clear what we want. As for encircling, the silly string of pearls is already broken. They will try it again and we will break it further. Now, it time to poke them in SCS and have some fun. Vietnam is significant and we will arm them further.

Ultimately, you can't rely on anyone, US or otherwise. You build your strength and work towards your interests. You use other while making sure what you are used for does not harm you.

There is no playing China. We are clear what we want. As for encircling, the silly string of pearls is already broken. They will try it again and we will break it further. Now, it time to poke them in SCS and have some fun. Vietnam is significant and we will arm them further.

SCS is an ongoing crisis. Is Vietnam ready to engage militarily to stop construction of bases? These bases will be completed in year and Chinese Flag will fly while all Vietnam, Japan, USA and Phillipines can offer are words. Can they dislodge China now?

 

[Nicky G]

You are right for short term but for long term (>5yrs) however i would like to offer some counter arguments

American public are never irrelevant . USA is a democracy like India so wheels can turn slowly but turn they will. For eg. Do you think American Military war weaker compared to Vietnam? No. Still USA withdrew and let Vietcong win after the body bags started coming and public turned against them. Even the biggest hawk of all Nixon could not prevent it. After Vietnam USA did not participate in another war for 30 years and that too after an attack on their soil which was worse than Peal harbor. Do you think corporations wanted to withdraw from Iraq? Hell no. They had to leave their oil wells which ISIS got and Halliburton lost its lucrative blank check contract. And believe me if their is a shadowy mega corp in USA its Halliburton

Vietnam was lost due to lot of reasons, lets not get into that here. A lot of factors converged to make that possible. A lot of those events are unlikely to transpire at the present or in the foreseeable future.

Lets limit to US public perception. US made two critical mistakes form a PR perspective:

First, they allowed real life images to be broadcast back home. The public saw the devastation and human cost, at times unfiltered. They saw their boys in body bags and the atrocities their soldiers committed. Now that's taken care of via embedded journalists who are controlled in what they show for the most part.

Second, trying to draft. When others are losing their loved ones, people don't care. When their sons and brothers and husbands are getting shipped off to an unknown place in a war, they sure do. In the recent wars, no draft.

Iraq is a different matter as US forces withdrew while contractors remained. More over, with IS, they'll be back sooner or later.

I agree, Just saying if USA wants us to contain China we should ask for more, much much more.

A lot would have been asked that we are not privy to. We will get to know in due time what we get. However, US is not our only source, we have plenty of options, obviously in a certain technologies, US is the best choice.

No, Its China which is testing the US strategy in SCS. Its USA which is getting pushed in the corner. China deliberately started construction MILITARY BASES in SCS and they have stated that they would not back down. What has USA come out with? Just some strong worded statements and surveillance flights. Who the hell even needs surveillance flights when you have satellites. Its not that China is denying the construction. They have openly stated that they are constructing and will continue doing so. Has USA taken any step to stop the construction? Has USA fired upon Chinese Bases when they have openly told USA mind your own business and GTFO.

SCS is an ongoing crisis. Is Vietnam ready to engage militarily to stop construction of bases? These bases will be completed in year and Chinese Flag will fly while all Vietnam, Japan, USA and Phillipines can offer are words. Can they dislodge China now?

Everyone tests the other and plays game. In SCS, you have to ask, does China have the ability or will to block SCS to other as it sees fit? No.

They keep warning India, do we listen? Of course not.

This is a long term game that will be played over the next few decades. We will play our part while we grow. There are things we must do but nothing to be overly concerned about.

Ultimately, if you can grow at a healthy clip, rest will follow, be it military spending, geo-political significance etc. There is no reason to bend to anyone.

 

[Spectre]

Vietnam was lost due to lot of reasons, lets not get into that here. A lot of factors converged to make that possible. A lot of those events are unlikely to transpire at the present or in the foreseeable future.

Lets limit to US public perception. US made two critical mistakes form a PR perspective:

First, they allowed real life images to be broadcast back home. The public saw the devastation and human cost, at times unfiltered. They saw their boys in body bags and the atrocities their soldiers committed. Now that's taken care of via embedded journalists who are controlled in what they show for the most part.

Second, trying to draft. When others are losing their loved ones, people don't care. When their sons and brothers and husbands are getting shipped off to an unknown place in a war, they sure do. In the recent wars, no draft.

Iraq is a different matter as US forces withdrew while contractors remained. More over, with IS, they'll be back sooner or later.



A lot would have been asked that we are not privy to. We will get to know in due time what we get. However, US is not our only source, we have plenty of options, obviously in a certain technologies, US is the best choice.





Everyone tests the other and plays game. In SCS, you have to ask, does China have the ability or will to block SCS to other as it sees fit? No.

They keep warning India, do we listen? Of course not.

This is a long term game that will be played over the next few decades. We will play our part while we grow. There are things we must do but nothing to be overly concerned about.

Ultimately, if you can grow at a healthy clip, rest will follow, be it military spending, geo-political significance etc. There is no reason to bend to anyone.

Vietnam was lost due to lot of reasons, lets not get into that here. A lot of factors converged to make that possible. A lot of those events are unlikely to transpire at the present or in the foreseeable future.

Lets limit to US public perception. US made two critical mistakes form a PR perspective:

First, they allowed real life images to be broadcast back home. The public saw the devastation and human cost, at times unfiltered. They saw their boys in body bags and the atrocities their soldiers committed. Now that's taken care of via embedded journalists who are controlled in what they show for the most part.

Second, trying to draft. When others are losing their loved ones, people don't care. When their sons and brothers and husbands are getting shipped off to an unknown place in a war, they sure do. In the recent wars, no draft.

Iraq is a different matter as US forces withdrew while contractors remained. More over, with IS, they'll be back sooner or later.

In today's day and age no one can control information. Be assured if there is death and devastation, It will come out. Either through leaks sooner or later or enemy will conduct propaganda war. If you have been reading US publications already half of the stories in US magazines and newspaper are making out China to be Saints and Obama to be aggressor. Most likely they are on Chinese payroll.

All indicators show that USA will not send ground troops in Iraq. Republicans and Democrats who matter both agree on this.

Everyone tests the other and plays game. In SCS, you have to ask, does China have the ability or will to block SCS to other as it sees fit? No.

They keep warning India, do we listen? Of course not.

This is a long term game that will be played over the next few decades. We will play our part while we grow. There are things we must do but nothing to be overly concerned about.

China is preparing for future conflicts by building these bases otherwise they have no value may be a bit of oil but to a country China's size they are meaningless. China will not engage USA militarily this or next year. What Chinese will do is provoke USA every way possible. Currency Manipulation, Proliferation, Cyber Espionage. If you are aware PLA 3rd Dept (their cyber warfare unit) has already stoled detailed blueprints of F22 and F-35 on which their J-20 and J-31 are based. Just today NYT reported that 6 million US Federal employees had all their records stoled by Chinese. Why do you think they need records of 6 million employees? Its certainly not for credit card fraud. What they want to do is analyze these employees for further espionage potential, prove their weeknesses and see if they can be threatened or lured to Chinese side. All these small details add to a bigger deadly picture that China is preparing itself for an inevitable conflict with USA. China doesn't want a military war but it wants to slowly and steadily make itself so powerful that USA would have no option but to let China take it its place and if USA wants to go to war then China wants to hold all the cards.

 

[Nicky G]

In today's day and age no one can control information. Be assured if there is death and devastation, It will come out. Either through leaks sooner or later or enemy will conduct propaganda war. If you have been reading US publications already half of the stories in US magazines and newspaper are making out China to be Saints and Obama to be aggressor. Most likely they are on Chinese payroll.

All indicators show that USA will not send ground troops in Iraq. Republicans and Democrats who matter both agree on this.

In a military zone they sure can. Some stuff will come out eventually, long after the war is done; thus no realtime impact. This is validated by the Iraq and Afghan wars.

China is preparing for future conflicts by building these bases otherwise they have no value may be a bit of oil but to a country China's size they are meaningless. China will not engage USA militarily this or next year. What Chinese will do is provoke USA every way possible. Currency Manipulation, Proliferation, Cyber Espionage. If you are aware PLA 3rd Dept (their cyber warfare unit) has already stoled detailed blueprints of F22 and F-35 on which their J-20 and J-31 are based. Just today NYT reported that 6 million US Federal employees had all their records stoled by Chinese. Why do you think they need records of 6 million employees? Its certainly not for credit card fraud. What they want to do is analyze these employees for further espionage potential, prove their weeknesses and see if they can be threatened or lured to Chinese side. All these small details add to a bigger deadly picture that China is preparing itself for an inevitable conflict with USA. China doesn't want a military war but it wants to slowly and steadily make itself so powerful that USA would have no option but to let China take it its place and if USA wants to go to war then China wants to hold all the cards.

Provocation and retaliation is continuous. I'll let the bit about stolen designs slide. We can revisit if we ever see similar planes.

What China wants and what they can achieve are world's apart. With them slowing down and sitting on trillions of dollars worth inflated NPA along with useless US debt that they own that will never be paid back, their domination of Asia let alone the world is a dream.

Moreover, no matter how strong you become economically, without military might, you don't stand much chance. For instance, what China tries to achieve in Africa economically, US can blow that aside with a few hundred troops. Such force projection is outside China's reach for decades to come.

Anyway, we are digressing into too many details, the point is India has no reason to alter her strategy. There is no hurry to settle anything with China including border issues. We are only interested in trade with them at the moment, yet another form of deterrence.

With US, we can work on mutually beneficial points, no need for anything beyond that.

 

[Spectre]

In a military zone they sure can. Some stuff will come out eventually, long after the war is done; thus no realtime impact. This is validated by the Iraq and Afghan wars.



Provocation and retaliation is continuous. I'll let the bit about stolen designs slide. We can revisit if we ever see similar planes.

What China wants and what they can achieve are world's apart. With them slowing down and sitting on trillions of dollars worth inflated NPA along with useless US debt that they own that will never be paid back, their domination of Asia let alone the world is a dream.

Moreover, no matter how strong you become economically, without military might, you don't stand much chance. For instance, what China tries to achieve in Africa economically, US can blow that aside with a few hundred troops. Such force projection is outside China's reach for decades to come.

Anyway, we are digressing into too many details, the point is India has no reason to alter her strategy. There is no hurry to settle anything with China including border issues. We are only interested in trade with them at the moment, yet another form of deterrence.

With US, we can work on mutually beneficial points, no need for anything beyond that.

It was nice discussing all this stuff with you, i hardly get to do that where I am. I did not know that Chinese are sitting on so much NPAs