US close to signing deals with India in defence, communications: Pacific Command

[PARIKRAMA]

US close to signing deals with India in defence, communications: Pacific Command
By PTI | Feb 25, 2016, 10.49 AM IST
WASHINGTON: The US is close to signing three foundational agreements with India in fields of defence and communications that will give a big boost to the bilateral ties, a top American military commander has said.

"We were moving out aggressively in technical field with DTTI (Defense Technology and Trade Initiative)," US Pacific Command Commander Admiral Harry Harris said in response to a question on India-US defence relationship.

"There are some what we call foundational agreements that have to be executed with partner nations in order to move, quote unquote, 'to the next level'. And we are working with India on the signing of those foundational agreements," he said during his testimony before the House Committee on Armed Services.

One of those is the LSA -- Logistics Support Agreement -- which allows us to do the cross servicing -- acquisition cross servicing, for example, he said.

"Another one is called the CISMOA (Communications and Information Security Memorandum of Agreement), and it involves communications security so that we can be assured that India will protect our communications as we would protect theirs," Harris said.

"So these are foundation agreements that we enact with every country we work with. We have not gotten to the point of signing them with India, but I think we're close. We're closer now than we ever have been, and I'm encouraged by what I'm hearing from my colleagues in India, and I look forward to having that discussion with them when I go there next week," Harris said.

The Pacific Command Commander is headed to India next week for a wide range of talks with his Indian counterparts.

US close to signing deals with India in defence, communications: Pacific Command - The Economic Times

++++

Comments

I am trying here to make here a basic understanding based on normal Q&A methodology..

Basics/Introduction

• The Logistics Support Agreement (LSA), Communications Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement (BECA) for Geo-spatial Cooperation are the three foundational agreements that the US has been insisting on India to sign to further enhance the bilateral defence and strategic relationship.
• The US argues that the CISMOA and BECA would enable technology transfer and seamless communication between the military systems of the two countries.
• The LSA would help strengthen the capabilities of their armed forces to better deal with the security challenges of the 21st century by correcting logistic deficiencies.
• The agreements clearly puts emphasis on building inter-operability and capacity of the emerging partners through joint military exercises, training, and defence equipment sales.

Whats the need?

• The rapid global power shift from the West to Asia, rise of an assertive China and its territorial claims, and the emerging non-traditional security challenges have created geopolitical and geostrategic flux in Asia where the US increasingly expects India to play the larger role of a “net security provider”.
• The US believes that these foundational agreements will facilitate a strong defence and strategic partnership between the two countries and also help India build its defence capabilities to play such a role.

What has been India's response so far

• During the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) Government, the US had expressed its disappointment over India’s unwillingness to sign these agreements and not clearly indicating any specific reasons for its objections to it.
• Many Indian security analysts had pointed out that these agreements could lead to a formal India-US military alliance in due course and that it might upset India’s other important defence partners such as Russia.
• The defence ministry as well as the navy and air force chiefs too were of the view that there was little to be gained by such agreements.

Whats the present government role and viewpoint

• The India-US defence and strategic relationship has dramatically improved since the Narendra Modi Government came to power in May 2014.
• The two sides have not only agreed in principle to transform from mere buyer-seller defence relationship to joint research, co-development and production of high end defence equipment, but have also signed a “Joint Strategic Vision for the Asia-Pacific and Indian Ocean Region” (January 25, 2015).
• The two countries have already finalised four ‘pathfinder projects’ for joint development and production under the Defence Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI), and have expanded their strategic cooperation in the Indo-Pacific region as well.
• In fact, Modi Government’s current ‘Act East’ policy is now increasingly converging with the Barack Obama Administration’s “rebalance” to the Asia strategy where both sides are proactively engaging the Indo-Pacific countries.

So whats the latest - Are we signing or not?

• During his visit to the US in December 2015, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar and his American counterpart Ashton Carter reviewed the growing India-US defence relationship and “discussed ways to implement the defence related aspects of Prime Minister Modi and President Obama’s Joint Strategic Vision for the Asia-Pacific and Indian Ocean Region”.
• Defence Minister Parrikar was also briefed about the value of signing the foundation agreements. Meanwhile, India has asked the US for “fresh proposals” that addresses its concerns.
• The LSA currently appears to be a “doable” agreement.

What is the justification and the "plan"

• It is important to note that the India-US strategic relationship has significantly improved over the last one-and-a half decade without these agreements.
• Defence cooperation has been the most visible aspect of this evolving relationship.
• The US has in fact emerged as the top arms supplier to India and currently India conducts more military exercises with the US than with any other country.
• Therefore, with or without these foundation agreements, the India-US defence and strategic relationship is going to expand further including in the areas of joint research, development and production of high end defence technology.
• However, having these agreements will yield greater benefits for both the nations.
• Both sides need to make vigorous efforts to build consensus and arrive at a more acceptable version of the agreements, consistent with their respective national interests and policies.

Credit to Saroj Bishoyi whose has written multiple articles on this topic..

Some other work of his on the topic of India - USA relationship are
Saroj Bishoyi, “Logistics Support Agreement: A Closer Look at the Impact on India-US Strategic Relationship”, Journal of Defence Studies, 7 (1), January-March 2013, pp. 151-172.

Saroj Bishoyi, “India-US Security Cooperation in Asia: Can India be a Net Security Provider?”, in S.D. Muni and Vivek Chadha (eds.), Asian Strategic Review 2015: India as a Security Provider, Pentagon Press, New Delhi, 2015, pp. 166-193.

Saroj Bishoyi, “Onus on US to Boost Defence Ties with India”, The Pioneer,December 12, 2015.

@knight11 @Abingdonboy @MilSpec @AUSTERLITZ @Vauban @Taygibay @C130 @Piper @Providence
@cerberus @anant_s @Levina @Ankit Kumar @Skull and Bones @Roybot @Water Car Engineer

It would be helpful if you all folks can put in some views.. Bcz it needs to be understood what real tangible benefits India will draw from these foundation agreements. Or is this government making a mistake?

Is USA showing us carrot of technology transfer by asking us to sign CISMOA and BECA but we do know most things in terms of weapons and technology are not transferable due to US Laws.. Will they make an exception to accommodate India?

What about our geo political alignment and most importantly about our Foreign Policy and Military relationship say with Russia?

Judging by the ET report, it seems USA is very keen to get these foundation agreements done with India and GOI seems to have made up a mind that it wants to sign a acceptable version of it and will keep asking for changes to it till they find it "acceptable".

@all others are most welcome to add their views..( Pls dont mind if i have not tagged you)..

 

[knight11]

US close to signing deals with India in defence, communications: Pacific Command
By PTI | Feb 25, 2016, 10.49 AM IST
WASHINGTON: The US is close to signing three foundational agreements with India in fields of defence and communications that will give a big boost to the bilateral ties, a top American military commander has said.

"We were moving out aggressively in technical field with DTTI (Defense Technology and Trade Initiative)," US Pacific Command Commander Admiral Harry Harris said in response to a question on India-US defence relationship.

"There are some what we call foundational agreements that have to be executed with partner nations in order to move, quote unquote, 'to the next level'. And we are working with India on the signing of those foundational agreements," he said during his testimony before the House Committee on Armed Services.

One of those is the LSA -- Logistics Support Agreement -- which allows us to do the cross servicing -- acquisition cross servicing, for example, he said.

"Another one is called the CISMOA (Communications and Information Security Memorandum of Agreement), and it involves communications security so that we can be assured that India will protect our communications as we would protect theirs," Harris said.

"So these are foundation agreements that we enact with every country we work with. We have not gotten to the point of signing them with India, but I think we're close. We're closer now than we ever have been, and I'm encouraged by what I'm hearing from my colleagues in India, and I look forward to having that discussion with them when I go there next week," Harris said.

The Pacific Command Commander is headed to India next week for a wide range of talks with his Indian counterparts.

US close to signing deals with India in defence, communications: Pacific Command - The Economic Times

++++

Comments

I am trying here to make here a basic understanding based on normal Q&A methodology..

Basics/Introduction

• The Logistics Support Agreement (LSA), Communications Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement (BECA) for Geo-spatial Cooperation are the three foundational agreements that the US has been insisting on India to sign to further enhance the bilateral defence and strategic relationship.
• The US argues that the CISMOA and BECA would enable technology transfer and seamless communication between the military systems of the two countries.
• The LSA would help strengthen the capabilities of their armed forces to better deal with the security challenges of the 21st century by correcting logistic deficiencies.
• The agreements clearly puts emphasis on building inter-operability and capacity of the emerging partners through joint military exercises, training, and defence equipment sales.

Whats the need?

• The rapid global power shift from the West to Asia, rise of an assertive China and its territorial claims, and the emerging non-traditional security challenges have created geopolitical and geostrategic flux in Asia where the US increasingly expects India to play the larger role of a “net security provider”.
• The US believes that these foundational agreements will facilitate a strong defence and strategic partnership between the two countries and also help India build its defence capabilities to play such a role.

What has been India's response so far

• During the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) Government, the US had expressed its disappointment over India’s unwillingness to sign these agreements and not clearly indicating any specific reasons for its objections to it.
• Many Indian security analysts had pointed out that these agreements could lead to a formal India-US military alliance in due course and that it might upset India’s other important defence partners such as Russia.
• The defence ministry as well as the navy and air force chiefs too were of the view that there was little to be gained by such agreements.

Whats the present government role and viewpoint

• The India-US defence and strategic relationship has dramatically improved since the Narendra Modi Government came to power in May 2014.
• The two sides have not only agreed in principle to transform from mere buyer-seller defence relationship to joint research, co-development and production of high end defence equipment, but have also signed a “Joint Strategic Vision for the Asia-Pacific and Indian Ocean Region” (January 25, 2015).
• The two countries have already finalised four ‘pathfinder projects’ for joint development and production under the Defence Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI), and have expanded their strategic cooperation in the Indo-Pacific region as well.
• In fact, Modi Government’s current ‘Act East’ policy is now increasingly converging with the Barack Obama Administration’s “rebalance” to the Asia strategy where both sides are proactively engaging the Indo-Pacific countries.

So whats the latest - Are we signing or not?

• During his visit to the US in December 2015, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar and his American counterpart Ashton Carter reviewed the growing India-US defence relationship and “discussed ways to implement the defence related aspects of Prime Minister Modi and President Obama’s Joint Strategic Vision for the Asia-Pacific and Indian Ocean Region”.
• Defence Minister Parrikar was also briefed about the value of signing the foundation agreements. Meanwhile, India has asked the US for “fresh proposals” that addresses its concerns.
• The LSA currently appears to be a “doable” agreement.

What is the justification and the "plan"

• It is important to note that the India-US strategic relationship has significantly improved over the last one-and-a half decade without these agreements.
• Defence cooperation has been the most visible aspect of this evolving relationship.
• The US has in fact emerged as the top arms supplier to India and currently India conducts more military exercises with the US than with any other country.
• Therefore, with or without these foundation agreements, the India-US defence and strategic relationship is going to expand further including in the areas of joint research, development and production of high end defence technology.
• However, having these agreements will yield greater benefits for both the nations.
• Both sides need to make vigorous efforts to build consensus and arrive at a more acceptable version of the agreements, consistent with their respective national interests and policies.

Credit to Saroj Bishoyi whose has written multiple articles on this topic..

Some other work of his on the topic of India - USA relationship are
Saroj Bishoyi, “Logistics Support Agreement: A Closer Look at the Impact on India-US Strategic Relationship”, Journal of Defence Studies, 7 (1), January-March 2013, pp. 151-172.

Saroj Bishoyi, “India-US Security Cooperation in Asia: Can India be a Net Security Provider?”, in S.D. Muni and Vivek Chadha (eds.), Asian Strategic Review 2015: India as a Security Provider, Pentagon Press, New Delhi, 2015, pp. 166-193.

Saroj Bishoyi, “Onus on US to Boost Defence Ties with India”, The Pioneer,December 12, 2015.

@knight11 @Abingdonboy @MilSpec @AUSTERLITZ @Vauban @Taygibay @C130 @Piper @Providence
@cerberus @anant_s @Levina @Ankit Kumar @Skull and Bones @Roybot @Water Car Engineer

It would be helpful if you all folks can put in some views.. Bcz it needs to be understood what real tangible benefits India will draw from these foundation agreements. Or is this government making a mistake?

Is USA showing us carrot of technology transfer by asking us to sign CISMOA and BECA but we do know most things in terms of weapons and technology are not transferable due to US Laws.. Will they make an exception to accommodate India?

What about our geo political alignment and most importantly about our Foreign Policy and Military relationship say with Russia?

Judging by the ET report, it seems USA is very keen to get these foundation agreements done with India and GOI seems to have made up a mind that it wants to sign a acceptable version of it and will keep asking for changes to it till they find it "acceptable".

@all others are most welcome to add their views..( Pls dont mind if i have not tagged you)..

Thanks for tagging me. I am not an expert and would like to share later on this topic in detail, but before that I would like to hear the biggies thought on this.

However in short :-

LSA -- If India have a plan to go global, which I suppose is max from the gulf to the singapore to ensure the safety of the seamless maritime buisness link, it may be very usefull, however the question is Whether it is needed ??
When most of our weapons are of the Soviet/Russian origin, the deal with the cooperation from friendly nation like Malasia, Singapore, Oman could do the job. But when I look at the opposite, US/NATO would be more benifited from this.

CISMOA, BECA -- India always maintains non allignment policy in the past from the likes of Pt. Nehru, and provided us the present position, that we can buy weapons from both US, and Russia, Can have good relation with Iran and Israel simultaneously. If we meant to sign this deal, are we looking forward to joint operation with the Nato forces in the future for better corporation. When we look at the benifits, sure it give us tremendous benifits in the shape of the update links from the US satellites, UAV, Radars, AEW EC, Early warning systems and networks from threats like Ballastic missiles, cruise missiles, oceanic security and may be EMAL as bonus for Vishal -- But question again do we need it when we have already invested billions in our ABM, Early warning systems, Naval Battle Management System, GSAT-7 with IR Sensor inboard.

Question arises :-

1. Are we looking as China as an enemy in future, than the potential threat.
2. Are we looking forward as the member of the US lead Nato in their future adventure.
3. Are we are ready to leave Russia as main weapon partner, who have provided us deep partnership not in Space tech, Arihant, Brahmos, but also in 5th Gen PAKFA/FGFA which nobody provides us. Or we ready to forget the no hold bar export of the SU-30MKI, when the exported fighter plane was half generation ahead of the own airforce.
4. Do we want to join the club of UK, Germany, France and Israel.
5. Do we consider US as the sole Thanedaar for the safety of all the democracy of the world.
6. Does the Nuclear Deal, Permanent Membership, EMAL, F-35, Aegis attracts us so much that we are now ready to leave our stance of standing neutral and not joining any alliance.
7. Last but not the least, does India don't have the guts and confidence to become the global superpower both economical and military with its own policies, where it could lay an example rather follow the footstep of the country, who don't have a long history, because its inhabitants are now overshadows by some of the whites settlers from the shadow and now who is going to teach us the benefits of the YOGA and NEEM and export us Basmati Rice.

 

[bafxet]

The rivalry with China and the act of being a watchdog over nuclear Pakistan is letting India enjoy the US's perks. Not too long ago Pakistan was also in the same situation. But now the non NATO ally is struggling to get merely 8 F-16s. Uncles same is not a trusted friend

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Thanks for tagging me. I am not an expert and would like to share later on this topic in detail, but before that I would like to hear the biggies thought on this.

However in short :-

LSA -- If India have a plan to go global, which I suppose is max from the gulf to the singapore to ensure the safety of the seamless maritime buisness link, it may be very usefull, however the question is Whether it is needed ??
When most of our weapons are of the Soviet/Russian origin, the deal with the cooperation from friendly nation like Malasia, Singapore, Oman could do the job. But when I look at the opposite, US/NATO would be more benifited from this.

CISMOA, BECA -- India always maintains non allignment policy in the past from the likes of Pt. Nehru, and provided us the present position, that we can buy weapons from both US, and Russia, Can have good relation with Iran and Israel simultaneously. If we meant to sign this deal, are we looking forward to joint operation with the Nato forces in the future for better corporation. When we look at the benifits, sure it give us tremendous benifits in the shape of the update links from the US satellites, UAV, Radars, AEW EC, Early warning systems and networks from threats like Ballastic missiles, cruise missiles, oceanic security and may be EMAL as bonus for Vishal -- But question again do we need it when we have already invested billions in our ABM, Early warning systems, Naval Battle Management System, GSAT-7 with IR Sensor inboard.

Question arises :-

1. Are we looking as China as an enemy in future, than the potential threat.
2. Are we looking forward as the member of the US lead Nato in their future adventure.
3. Are we are ready to leave Russia as main weapon partner, who have provided us deep partnership not in Space tech, Arihant, Brahmos, but also in 5th Gen PAKFA/FGFA which nobody provides us. Or we ready to forget the no hold bar export of the SU-30MKI, when the exported fighter plane was half generation ahead of the own airforce.
4. Do we want to join the club of UK, Germany, France and Israel.
5. Do we consider US as the sole Thanedaar for the safety of all the democracy of the world.
6. Does the Nuclear Deal, Permanent Membership, EMAL, F-35, Aegis attracts us so much that we are now ready to leave our stance of standing neutral and not joining any alliance.
7. Last but not the least, does India don't have the guts and confidence to become the global superpower both economical and military with its own policies, where it could lay an example rather follow the footstep of the country, who don't have a long history, because its inhabitants are now overshadows by some of the whites settlers from the shadow and now who is going to teach us the benefits of the YOGA and NEEM and export us Basmati Rice.

As usual bro, solid points.. Now you know why i tagged you bcz i knew you would give a good view point on this..

It feels a bit weird that we say we want to be super power and move from developing to newly developed economy yet we dont believe we have capability to do it alone.. A point which you have very well emphasized in point no 7....

I am looking forward to other members.. bcz i would also like to understand hear opinions so that i can gain more insights..

The rivalry with China and the act of being a watchdog over nuclear Pakistan is letting India enjoy the US's perks. Not too long ago Pakistan was also in the same situation. But now the non NATO ally is struggling to get merely 8 F-16s. Uncles same is not a trusted friend

You made a very solid point sir.. USA relationship is not always favorable as seen in the case of Pakistan. Perhaps that why i am keen to hear all opinions on this matter...

 

[Ankit Kumar]

300 Billion dollars. Simple , give us 300billion dollars and remove restrictions on Israel trading defence techs to India.

I am putting up a amount because simply we don't get a penny of benefit by signing those papers , they are no important to us no more than Bull Crap .

On the other hand Americans get to beat around the world and to their public that they have got fodder for US who is ready to fight for US dreams.

US close to signing deals with India in defence, communications: Pacific Command
By PTI | Feb 25, 2016, 10.49 AM IST
WASHINGTON: The US is close to signing three foundational agreements with India in fields of defence and communications that will give a big boost to the bilateral ties, a top American military commander has said.

"We were moving out aggressively in technical field with DTTI (Defense Technology and Trade Initiative)," US Pacific Command Commander Admiral Harry Harris said in response to a question on India-US defence relationship.

"There are some what we call foundational agreements that have to be executed with partner nations in order to move, quote unquote, 'to the next level'. And we are working with India on the signing of those foundational agreements," he said during his testimony before the House Committee on Armed Services.

One of those is the LSA -- Logistics Support Agreement -- which allows us to do the cross servicing -- acquisition cross servicing, for example, he said.

"Another one is called the CISMOA (Communications and Information Security Memorandum of Agreement), and it involves communications security so that we can be assured that India will protect our communications as we would protect theirs," Harris said.

"So these are foundation agreements that we enact with every country we work with. We have not gotten to the point of signing them with India, but I think we're close. We're closer now than we ever have been, and I'm encouraged by what I'm hearing from my colleagues in India, and I look forward to having that discussion with them when I go there next week," Harris said.

The Pacific Command Commander is headed to India next week for a wide range of talks with his Indian counterparts.

US close to signing deals with India in defence, communications: Pacific Command - The Economic Times

++++

Comments

I am trying here to make here a basic understanding based on normal Q&A methodology..

Basics/Introduction

• The Logistics Support Agreement (LSA), Communications Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement (BECA) for Geo-spatial Cooperation are the three foundational agreements that the US has been insisting on India to sign to further enhance the bilateral defence and strategic relationship.
• The US argues that the CISMOA and BECA would enable technology transfer and seamless communication between the military systems of the two countries.
• The LSA would help strengthen the capabilities of their armed forces to better deal with the security challenges of the 21st century by correcting logistic deficiencies.
• The agreements clearly puts emphasis on building inter-operability and capacity of the emerging partners through joint military exercises, training, and defence equipment sales.

Whats the need?

• The rapid global power shift from the West to Asia, rise of an assertive China and its territorial claims, and the emerging non-traditional security challenges have created geopolitical and geostrategic flux in Asia where the US increasingly expects India to play the larger role of a “net security provider”.
• The US believes that these foundational agreements will facilitate a strong defence and strategic partnership between the two countries and also help India build its defence capabilities to play such a role.

What has been India's response so far

• During the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) Government, the US had expressed its disappointment over India’s unwillingness to sign these agreements and not clearly indicating any specific reasons for its objections to it.
• Many Indian security analysts had pointed out that these agreements could lead to a formal India-US military alliance in due course and that it might upset India’s other important defence partners such as Russia.
• The defence ministry as well as the navy and air force chiefs too were of the view that there was little to be gained by such agreements.

Whats the present government role and viewpoint

• The India-US defence and strategic relationship has dramatically improved since the Narendra Modi Government came to power in May 2014.
• The two sides have not only agreed in principle to transform from mere buyer-seller defence relationship to joint research, co-development and production of high end defence equipment, but have also signed a “Joint Strategic Vision for the Asia-Pacific and Indian Ocean Region” (January 25, 2015).
• The two countries have already finalised four ‘pathfinder projects’ for joint development and production under the Defence Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI), and have expanded their strategic cooperation in the Indo-Pacific region as well.
• In fact, Modi Government’s current ‘Act East’ policy is now increasingly converging with the Barack Obama Administration’s “rebalance” to the Asia strategy where both sides are proactively engaging the Indo-Pacific countries.

So whats the latest - Are we signing or not?

• During his visit to the US in December 2015, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar and his American counterpart Ashton Carter reviewed the growing India-US defence relationship and “discussed ways to implement the defence related aspects of Prime Minister Modi and President Obama’s Joint Strategic Vision for the Asia-Pacific and Indian Ocean Region”.
• Defence Minister Parrikar was also briefed about the value of signing the foundation agreements. Meanwhile, India has asked the US for “fresh proposals” that addresses its concerns.
• The LSA currently appears to be a “doable” agreement.

What is the justification and the "plan"

• It is important to note that the India-US strategic relationship has significantly improved over the last one-and-a half decade without these agreements.
• Defence cooperation has been the most visible aspect of this evolving relationship.
• The US has in fact emerged as the top arms supplier to India and currently India conducts more military exercises with the US than with any other country.
• Therefore, with or without these foundation agreements, the India-US defence and strategic relationship is going to expand further including in the areas of joint research, development and production of high end defence technology.
• However, having these agreements will yield greater benefits for both the nations.
• Both sides need to make vigorous efforts to build consensus and arrive at a more acceptable version of the agreements, consistent with their respective national interests and policies.

Credit to Saroj Bishoyi whose has written multiple articles on this topic..

Some other work of his on the topic of India - USA relationship are
Saroj Bishoyi, “Logistics Support Agreement: A Closer Look at the Impact on India-US Strategic Relationship”, Journal of Defence Studies, 7 (1), January-March 2013, pp. 151-172.

Saroj Bishoyi, “India-US Security Cooperation in Asia: Can India be a Net Security Provider?”, in S.D. Muni and Vivek Chadha (eds.), Asian Strategic Review 2015: India as a Security Provider, Pentagon Press, New Delhi, 2015, pp. 166-193.

Saroj Bishoyi, “Onus on US to Boost Defence Ties with India”, The Pioneer,December 12, 2015.

@knight11 @Abingdonboy @MilSpec @AUSTERLITZ @Vauban @Taygibay @C130 @Piper @Providence
@cerberus @anant_s @Levina @Ankit Kumar @Skull and Bones @Roybot @Water Car Engineer

It would be helpful if you all folks can put in some views.. Bcz it needs to be understood what real tangible benefits India will draw from these foundation agreements. Or is this government making a mistake?

Is USA showing us carrot of technology transfer by asking us to sign CISMOA and BECA but we do know most things in terms of weapons and technology are not transferable due to US Laws.. Will they make an exception to accommodate India?

What about our geo political alignment and most importantly about our Foreign Policy and Military relationship say with Russia?

Judging by the ET report, it seems USA is very keen to get these foundation agreements done with India and GOI seems to have made up a mind that it wants to sign a acceptable version of it and will keep asking for changes to it till they find it "acceptable".

@all others are most welcome to add their views..( Pls dont mind if i have not tagged you)..

Do we get 0.1% of what Pakistan has been granted after signing these, no.
We will still need to pay billions and billions, still don't get any TOT and still have to bear American interference.

 

[dadeechi]

Thanks for tagging me. I am not an expert and would like to share later on this topic in detail, but before that I would like to hear the biggies thought on this.

However in short :-

LSA -- If India have a plan to go global, which I suppose is max from the gulf to the singapore to ensure the safety of the seamless maritime buisness link, it may be very usefull, however the question is Whether it is needed ??
When most of our weapons are of the Soviet/Russian origin, the deal with the cooperation from friendly nation like Malasia, Singapore, Oman could do the job. But when I look at the opposite, US/NATO would be more benifited from this.

CISMOA, BECA -- India always maintains non allignment policy in the past from the likes of Pt. Nehru, and provided us the present position, that we can buy weapons from both US, and Russia, Can have good relation with Iran and Israel simultaneously. If we meant to sign this deal, are we looking forward to joint operation with the Nato forces in the future for better corporation. When we look at the benifits, sure it give us tremendous benifits in the shape of the update links from the US satellites, UAV, Radars, AEW EC, Early warning systems and networks from threats like Ballastic missiles, cruise missiles, oceanic security and may be EMAL as bonus for Vishal -- But question again do we need it when we have already invested billions in our ABM, Early warning systems, Naval Battle Management System, GSAT-7 with IR Sensor inboard.

Question arises :-

1. Are we looking as China as an enemy in future, than the potential threat.
2. Are we looking forward as the member of the US lead Nato in their future adventure.
3. Are we are ready to leave Russia as main weapon partner, who have provided us deep partnership not in Space tech, Arihant, Brahmos, but also in 5th Gen PAKFA/FGFA which nobody provides us. Or we ready to forget the no hold bar export of the SU-30MKI, when the exported fighter plane was half generation ahead of the own airforce.
4. Do we want to join the club of UK, Germany, France and Israel.
5. Do we consider US as the sole Thanedaar for the safety of all the democracy of the world.
6. Does the Nuclear Deal, Permanent Membership, EMAL, F-35, Aegis attracts us so much that we are now ready to leave our stance of standing neutral and not joining any alliance.
7. Last but not the least, does India don't have the guts and confidence to become the global superpower both economical and military with its own policies, where it could lay an example rather follow the footstep of the country, who don't have a long history, because its inhabitants are now overshadows by some of the whites settlers from the shadow and now who is going to teach us the benefits of the YOGA and NEEM and export us Basmati Rice.

Remember couple of months ago when I said India is going to sign all the 3 foundational agreements and people pounced on me.

India would also be buying at least one fighter (mostly F-16s) plane if not two.

What people seem to not realize is the BJP government is west leaning and it has full majority in LS. once BJP has majority in RS, may of the deals would even pick up speed.


@PARIKRAMA

 

[mirage]

The rivalry with China and the act of being a watchdog over nuclear Pakistan is letting India enjoy the US's perks. Not too long ago Pakistan was also in the same situation. But now the non NATO ally is struggling to get merely 8 F-16s. Uncles same is not a trusted friend

there is difference between a girlfriend and a keep . BTW as far as national interests are not compromised in long run , every such deal will only benefit Bharat

 

[MilSpec]

@PARIKRAMA Sorry, I don't have any inputs on this. Just have had apprehensions on CISMOA. thanks for the the tag though.

 

[Hellfire]

@PARIKRAMA Sorry, I don't have any inputs on this. Just have had apprehensions on CISMOA.

Explain.

 

[MilSpec]

Explain.

Seemed like Indian establishment did not want to sign CISMOA, must have had good reasons for it, I don't know much about comm protocols, not my field, so don't know much about it. As I said, I don't really have any inputs on this.

 

[Taygibay]

The USA are an economic-military empire pretty much as Rome was at its peak.
They are very good at it and enact rules to maintain their status and position.
They thus logically marry the carrot and the stick.

Example, if you want to use GPS for military purposes, you have to sign in to the
set of rules and regulations that comes along. That in turn makes you dependent.
Hence Glonass, BeiDou and Galileo came about to provide an out to US hegemony.

But if you want to fight alongside America, you need NAVSTAR ( GPS is a generic term )
so that comms can synchronize ... and you sign CISMOA & BECA.

Let's be clear : If any other nation enjoyed the same all encompassing technological
domination that America does right now, they'd probably act the exact same way!
This can also be seen in patents and IP addresses and the likes. It explains why all
those interested in selling mil stuff to them end up setting a local production plant ...
so the finished product is entirely covered by American rules including Intellectual property!

It also ( partially ) explains the difference in attitude between France and the UK re-
garding alliance with Washington. In order to avoid becoming an American subsidiary,
you'll have to be very careful and keep your best stuff at home.

This said, signing those agreements, as bad as they may seem, is indeed necessary
to a full cooperation with the US. And at that point, it is essential to decide if the trade
is valid for your specific nation. Some countries signed with closed eyes and being
helpless by themselves are glad they did. It infeudates you, sure, but many ( say half of
NATO and Europe ) trust the protection thus gained to make a good deal of sense.

In this regard, India is now at a crossroads as Knight outlined. I have a personal opinion
towards his point 4 that is mitigated by my nation's past governments' lack of vision that
relates to strategic as in recent discussions and MoUs with Delhi but can't fully express.
The good news is that you guys have a whole lotta options right now.

Make the best decisions for your own reasons, be quick to decide and don't look back.
It really is an internal discussion for Bharatis, almost out of place here in PakistanDF.

Good luck and good day all, Tay.

P.S. About the GPS, there is a civilian side to it but that too is monitored ( see Snowden ).

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Remember couple of months ago when I said India is going to sign all the 3 foundational agreements and people pounced on me.

India would also be buying at least one fighter (mostly F-16s) plane if not two.

What people seem to not realize is the BJP government is west lAmericg and it has full majority in LS. once BJP has majority in RS, may of the deals would even pick up speed.


@PARIKRAMA

Yes you said and seems you may be correct too.
But answer this.

What benefit does India get out of THIS ( This in CAPs because its too big. Its simply an unofficial agreement that we have taken up sides , and will fight for them )

Do we get any TOT ? Do we get billion of dollars of worth weapons ? Do we get the Americans, not to back Pakistan ? Do we get the access to basic American techs without American interference? Do we get unrestricted access to Israeli defence techs ?

Non of the answer is YES.

And please don't count me Civillian and Space sector benefits.

 

[Piper]

I think posters before me have covered the motivations and incentives pretty well.

1. Technology Aspect - If India doesn't sign this agreements it will hit a brick wall sooner or later. On political spectrum there will be pleasantries and lot of talk about US - India Strategic Partnership but on ground there will no trail blazing improvements such as joint partnership in balance altering projects. Such projects are necessary if India seeks to gain an edge over China - As of now China has access to pretty much everything Russia has and gets sensitive tech not available from Russia through other sources and means.

2. Geo- Politics - India keeps harping about US tilt towards Pakistan. India should note that as of now it hasn't offered US anything which would off-set the gains influence on Pakistan brings to US. These agreements would be a step forward in that direction and show US alignment of Indian Foreign Policy when it coves US and it's adversaries

3. Negatives - As such the three foundation do not come with any impositions. It does not mandate and bind India to take part in defence of US and it's allies or vice-versa. The only issue is that Russia may have concerns but I think even they are overstated as Russian protocols differ significantly from Indian ones and even the hardware is heavily customized. The only issue which remains is the trust factor. Remember these agreement go both ways. The risk of leakages are even more profound on Indian side. It is way more likely that US information is leaked to Russia and than Indian information being leaked to Pakistan.

In conclusion - I don't think there is any significant issue preventing India from signing these agreements. Most of the concerns are related to optics and signalling.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@Abingdonboy
You missed this thread bro..

also @Levina ..

 

[Hellfire]

Seemed like Indian establishment did not want to sign CISMOA, must have had good reasons for it, I don't know much about comm protocols, not my field, so don't know much about it. As I said, I don't really have any inputs on this.

Ah I meant about your apprehensions ... but anyways .. thanks for the clarification!